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Site Outage, and Status Reports

ChillinBuzz	Date: February 13, 2008 @ 11:26 PM ooh big letters, that'll certainly get their attention.
GeneHilbert	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 3:06 AM The small ones don't seem to be workin'.....
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 10:10 AM neither are the big ones but if it amuses the masses, it's all good
zedsalt	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 10:51 AM Happy Valentine's Day, everybody! I just had a thought- since we're bound to be changing the logo as the holiday passes, why not change it to something that informs people about the outage?
HenriRoger	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 11:02 AM A logo like this : R.I.P Dmusic ?
Distilled1	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 11:27 AM I would really like to see an update last was the rest of the site was migrating over to web 2 (new servers) and things should settle in. File manager dosent work at all still do we need a whole new re design ? whey not rebuild from ground zero? I am really missing full functionality and wonder if its ever going to happen 1.5 months+ now.. all we ask is an UPDATE. we geeks know recovery takes not a month. I recovered 500GB at 89% in 12 hours on a damaged (FRIED) HD I know thats not much but that was with free softwear/ the stuff went out to a pro shop no? if the data is gone let us upload again.
aorpete	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 3:10 PM I miss this place... it is a real shame. Is the site still running in the hope that the subscribers will continue paying until the plug is finally pulled???
RichLum	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 4:29 PM That's the feeling I'm starting to get unfortunately... either that, or they are hoping that enough people will just abandon the site so the number of refunds they need to give is reduced...
dlindsay	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 5:11 PM Hey! Is something wrong with the site?? (just kidding)
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 14, 2008 @ 9:47 PM I sooooo wish I could win the lottery, although (despite my involvement in the coding of the re-design) I would revert to a modified version 7 (the one prior to this)... Still, the chance of me becoming a millionaire in time are about as likely as... Well, Mexico City becoming the cleanest city in the world.
TigerTim	Date: February 15, 2008 @ 5:00 PM Did not Shadowmom say send your songs to Distilled1? You can still get them heard so all I can suggest is make your tracks heard that way I know it's a pain, but they say patience is a virtue - looks like waiting is the
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 15, 2008 @ 6:04 PM My subscription comes out the 28th of each month. If there is no update before the 24th of February, I will cancel my automatic billing for subscription. I will restore it when the site is functioning again, if it ever does (and I'm sincerely hoping that it does). 7 days since the boss last posted and he gave no indications of timescale or updates at that point except to point out a 5k cost for data recovery. I have already allowed December and January subscription payments to go through with no service as we are led to believe that we might get compensated in some form. I'm not fishing for compo, I've been loyal and want to continue being loyal but I am also not a mug, and I think DM subscribers are really being taken for granted right now. Like I said before, I admire Distilled and Shadowmom doing their radio thing (give it a listen, some great DMusic tracks that you can't stream right now) but I don't think it's too much to expect an update every 3 or 4 days while we wait from the top brass. And without that reassurance, I feel I have no alternative if it isn't addressed soon.
Woof	Date: February 15, 2008 @ 7:08 PM You're a more patient man than I am, Leeds... I'd like to see at least a couple of sentences posted daily, by somebody who is in contact with somebody who knows what's going on. All it takes is a couple minutes of talking on the phone or something, and posting a report. What's a little more unsettling, though, is that the sheer amount of time that the site's been down (it'll be two months solid, come next weekend) says a lot about how stable its' systems are. The average time for a top ranking system to get back up and running after a major catastrophe is about three days. That's sites like Google, Yahoo, or CNN. Smaller, more privately controlled sites have gotten hit, and recovered in a week or so. I think that maybe the crash proved to be some kind of awakening, and moving the site to more reliable servers is a great move. I do applaud the DM staff for making that decision. Having said that, I do have to state again, that the time that it's taken to get partial functionality restored makes me wonder just how much patching is going to be necessary when and if the data recovery is complete. My guess is that we're looking at a couple more weeks before things begin working like they used to. And that's just to get back to where we were before the crash. There will be a lot more that needs to be done once we reach that point. DM will need to do more than just recover, to get a community back. It will need to make a comeback of some sort... and that means offering lots of new features that haven't even been in the works. There's a big web to compete with out there... and the most obvious contenders for providing alternate promotional channels are MySpace, YouTube, and Friendster. We aren't competing with other OMD sites... because OMD isn't really very interesting to this latest generation of web addicts. We're competing with other networking sites, specifically in the entertainment arena. So DM's feature set will need to address that. I guess if I had to sum it up, I'd say that it's going to be one hell of a battle to get our heads above water, even after the site's restored. I think our people here are up for the challenge, though... Am I right about that?
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 15, 2008 @ 7:28 PM Well, what I know is that as much as I have been loyal to DM and prefer it, that I have been more active on other sites and I am far from being alone. Wonder where many of the regulars are ? - you don't need to look far or need a lot of imagination to find them being very active elsewhere and almost universally the message is - We are keeping our fingers crossed for Dmusic but life goes on whether Larry gets his sh*t together or not.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 15, 2008 @ 8:17 PM update... I actually remembered that I pay quarterly subs, so since I paid last month, the next sub is not due for another 2 months, but I cancelled my subscription anyway, while I remembered. I will be delighted to reinstate it in the event we get up and running again. Please get this mess fixed up soon, or if the bills are too high find another buyer. Very sad to have to do this and I love this site dearly and will continue to do so, but felt this was the only action I could justify - I work hard but am far from being a rich man who can afford to keep paying for something that is not being delivered.
zedsalt	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 10:48 AM I've noticed that, too- lots of DMers on other sites, being very active, contributing some great new music. I wish I could stream the DMusic-based web radio programs here at home, but the fact remains that I probably wouldn't listen often, because it would be a matter of just happening to have time for it when they're running. There doesn't appear to have been the kind of mass exodus the redesign caused, but in a way, it's hit a little harder, because more and more of the most enthusiastic DMers are finding new "homes" elsewhere.
leflaw	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 11:40 AM Lots of truthful comments here. Bottom Line. Larry is not a programmer. This is a computer issue. I don't know what to say anymore. I keep pumping money out to programmers and nothing seems to get fixed. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe I should sell the site to a bunch of programmers.
leflaw	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 11:42 AM Status report: I have asked the programming team ( three people) whether they can fix uploading in a few days, or whether I should shutter it until it is fixed.
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:18 PM As long as the site doesn't die, and you don't really sell it, I'll be here. No matter how long it takes.
Ghostie	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:20 PM So will I .. but I do miss my DM!!!
Distilled1	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:22 PM AS well will I ^
Mojosnake	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:29 PM me too :bowdownn:
leflaw	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:38 PM I am in it for the long run. I will get this sucker going again if it kills me, and it probably will.
Ghostie	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:43 PM well we don't want that ..but thanks for all the effort you have put into dm!!
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:45 PM For all the complaining, and yes... it's been a long haul, we all know that-- there are still many users who will be here no matter what. Patience is still a virtue, I believe. Do whatever you gotta do, boss, and we'll rebuild from there.
NosmoKing	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:52 PM to that!
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:16 PM Good Luck in your struggle Larry. I will be back as a paying customer when you have overcome this problem. Best
Distilled1	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:22 PM Martin, if your on I think we are a go try some upload a small file ... I am having trouble but others say its working. post in the shoutbox any errors with any page Jacks on it and it sounds like we are all migrated and on the new servers
leflaw	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:57 PM Holy cow. Somebody uploaded a file!!
Distilled1	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 12:59 PM I can get 128K files up now have a issue with multiple accounts (have to clear cookies to goto a diffrent account(imagine thats an issue that will be worked out.) but they are uploading and streaming in Hi Fi.. as well as photos all good so far.
Distilled1	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 1:52 PM recent activity started counting properly and now I am on line etc. it was counting down.
TravelersTale	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 2:14 PM to see the song I uploaded.
TravelersTale	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 2:19 PM Is it ok to upload a song because I uploaded one...seems to be working however it just says stream while song is playing and doesnt say the title of song.
TravelersTale	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 2:22 PM ignore some of what I posted because this post a reply in forum isnt working properly...its only posting half of what i typed and preveiw and post button seems backwards.
leflaw	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:25 PM huh
Israfel	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:29 PM What you talking about Willis?
aorpete	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:31 PM Ok... this place is looking a little worse for ware at the moment - kinda like a closing-down sale... I sure hope I am wrong.
Mojosnake	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:32 PM what the fuguzzle shuzzle ?
Israfel	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:35 PM INteresting things going on.... Preview/Post buttons are reversed now. Can't update or change journals. Certain links don't work or just take me to MyDmusic page but can't do anything there. Couldn't shout for a while but that seemed to work its way out. Main community page wasn't updating. I CAN make song visible now... And stream. And every so ofter, it just logs me out at will. These are either growing pains or the final countdown!
Mojosnake	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:36 PM i can make a song visible but i cant stream it
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:39 PM i'm kinda glad i haven't fully deleted my archives from when i worked here... but if anyone can get me a copy of the php coding for the pages, lemme know ok? i just wish i had the knowledge to throw something back together.
Israfel	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:42 PM I have some duct tape...will that work?
Mojosnake	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:45 PM and chewing gum
moam	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:45 PM On 16th Feb 2012, ChillinBuzz said: i'm kinda glad i haven't fully deleted my archives from when i worked here... but if anyone can get me a copy of the php coding for the pages, lemme know ok? i just wish i had the knowledge to throw something back together. I got some hair gel Not sure if that could help any, but I figured I would ask
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:50 PM see, i blame you for all this. you and your damn chickens!
Mojosnake	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 3:57 PM
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 4:51 PM I can't post anywhere...
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 4:53 PM Except here... I can't post in the community shoutbox, and I can't even GET a shoutbox to appear on any user pages. I finally tried here. It took me more than an hour to access the site, and when I log in and go to any other page, I'm automatically logged out. This is worse than the dungeon
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 4:55 PM AND my posts aren't even showing up in the community interaction box! I am SO here, Jack!
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 5:12 PM My shoutbox is broken, too. I see people shouting, but it doesn't show up, and when I go to my own page, it's got a dreaded error on it. Mom is not a happy camper! And I'm going to call it a night.
ShadowMom	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 5:14 PM Does this mean I get tomorrow off?
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 5:28 PM they certainly are, Mom, at least from here... looks like another wheel just fell off the cart. ironic that the forums seem to be the only place still working properly.... apart from the buttons (which i'm having no issue with)...
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 5:28 PM and no time off. no rest for the wicked
Distilled1	Date: February 16, 2008 @ 8:09 PM Radio is on and streaming and well shit was going good I think Jack stuck a :acorn: in the server we were on are way!
kingo	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 2:21 AM THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Exclamation point.
Distilled1	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 2:55 AM
Distilled1	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 2:56 AM and previwe i s back to post
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 3:08 AM is it? it seems the buttons are ok to me, i haven't experienced this reversal yet... how odd.
zedsalt	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 3:33 AM I really appreciate the update, Larry, especially as I realize that it couldn't have been much fun to say that the newest news is that there really isn't any new news. It DOES make a difference to hear from you and be reminded that you care so much that it's driven you to speaking of yourself in the third person like Bob Dole.
Distilled1	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 3:57 AM
ShadowMom	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 4:25 AM Preview doesn't work? Just testing...
ShadowMom	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 4:26 AM Okay, now the other way...
ShadowMom	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 4:27 AM Actually, both posted for me. Preview is broken. Be warned.
TravelersTale	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 9:12 AM im getting weird pop ups from this site...its those you are infected with a virus popups and Im only getting them from this site...I know its not my puter because Im keeping it clean on my end if you know what I mean...Ok that sounds gross and can be taken in a whole different way in regards to infections....lol..anyway just wanted to mention the strange pop ups that are happening.
ShadowMom	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 9:37 AM http://www.dmusic.com/forum/complaints/28144
Tattoomom	Date: February 17, 2008 @ 10:25 AM It's interesting that I can stream almost everything on the site except nothing on Bill's page...
Rodrica	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 1:11 AM Just a thought on SAVING money. Let's NOT got down the route of trying to compete with "social networking" sites. Our competition should be other MUSIC sites. Propping up a massive site full "Joe Public" who just wanna talk, set up pedophile rings and hack the site in order to steal identities is little more than throwing your money at yet another internet cesspit. Sites like Soundclick and DMusic, although they have elements of social networking, are primarily MUSIC sites and should remain so. Believe it or not, I have received more opportunities to further my music through being on these two music sites than I would ever hope to achieve on a social networking site. Trust me on this...both myself and a few other people have been "testing the ground". It's QUALITY of interest/leads, not QUANTITY. There is already a plethora of social networking sites all in direct competition. Let's strive for dominance in a niche market rather than spreading our resources too thinly by trying to cover unnecessary ground. If people are desperate for friends, then social networking is fine. But if you want to promote and share your music, stick to a good music site - the quality of page views and hits is more productive and far superior. I have proved this over the last 5 years (radio play, cd sales, offers of live work, commissioned songs etc) - and believe me, I don't work THAT hard at promoting myself. If I did, I'd be much better off! Forget myspace, facebook and lastfm: Instead we need to keep a watchful eye on sites associated with the major record labels. Yes folks...those labels are setting up "social networking/blog sites/music sites" with the promise that their A & R will stop by and check you out! Some labels are supposedly no longer accepting pitches via post and say they would rather get to know you via their social networking/music sites. If anyone gets genuinely discovered this way I'll be very surprised - it's still a case of "jobs for the boys" and always will be. The problem I see is that artists will migrate to their sites under the false impression that A & R are waiting just around the corner with contract in hand. By far the best promotional tool is through direct contact and getting to know the right people...and by having a good, reliable music site and reliable community support to back you up. That's where DMusic and Soundclick come in... Now all we gotta do is work on the "reliable" bit.
zedsalt	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:53 AM Oh, I don't know; for an act with a very "radio friendly" sound, a label-based site might actually work, provided his/her/their goal is being handled by that label. I mean, I know someone who used to cruise mp3.com and iuma.com for Interscope thirty-some hrs./week. Her old job could be eliminated, replaced by a throng of Pop fans. Of course, if enough majors do this, it will also educate people as to just how few new acts they sign over a given time period. I don't see them as competition for DMusic, or even an additional route through the same territory as DMusic, Soundclick, Purevolume, etc. The more I see of the latest incarnation of mp3.com, the more I wonder if it's a good fit for me. It might be a little too major-oriented. One point that I don't see as arguable in Rodrica's post of 1:11 a.m.- focusing on social networking is a huge mistake for any site that wants to be "about" indie music. Even superficial similarities like similar appearance and navigation do damage which can't be undone.
Mojosnake	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:54 AM was told there was uploading......new dark.mp3 - Wrong file type. Only png, jpg,tif,gif,ai,psd, mp3,wav,ogg,avi,mpg,wmv,doc,xls,txt,pdf are allowed.
Distilled1	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:58 AM mojo try a smaller file and also clear your cookies and cashe first it should go I have goten as big as a 7.7MB file uploaded anything larger than 8MB is still not going even though I should be able to upload a 64MB total file size.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 6:07 AM Rodrica has a point in that DM and S/C are a different type of site to MySpace etc. and that concentrating on maximizing our differences is a good idea. Both these sites, or Myspace can be great promotional vehicles if you have the time and desire to sell yourself. Myspace is more hit and miss, you have to make friends to get the word out but in many cases those friends won't get you anything in terms of listens/downloads or exposure, whereas people go to DM and S/C for music so you're more likely to have interested parties listening although it's not as easy to add friends. Some sites work better for different people. The sad thing for Dmusic is that we have had nearly 2 months where people have been desperate to put music up, so many have signed on elsewhere and are getting the exposure and gratification they need, so DMusic had better get it's act together soon, otherwise there will not be many people coming back.
Woof	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 12:07 PM Points well taken. Thank you. I really wanted to address the topic of what kind of audience DM ought to be providing for its' bands, as well as how to build a membership back up after this outage. If DM is indeed getting the "right" kind of traffic for its' artists, it will sell itself. In other words, if there are scouts from independent and/or major labels checking this site regularly, and if DM artists are connecting and getting deals of one kind or another as a result of these connections, DM is serving its' purpose. I really had no idea that this was happening. Most of the success stories I've read on the news page highlight the deal that the artist has made, and don't mention that it was at least partially attributable to having a presence on DM. What I have been looking at for years, is the fact that if you check the comments and shoutbox posts on just about any DM artist's page, 99.9% of the written support comes from other DM artists. This gives the initial impression that nobody's really listening to the material that gets uploaded here, except for other DM artists. So, what did DM do to generate additional traffic? They set up a MySpace account. People who don't have music uploaded to this site rarely make an appearance here on the forum, either. Do artists here ever get messages from new fans complimenting their efforts? My point is, we're all looking for that exposure and attention. And to get that, you need an audience. We can be each other's audience, which is kind of the way it's always been, or we can affiliate ourselves with the more popular artists here, in the hopes of gaining a share of their audience, or we could implement features that would make DM an appealing place for listeners to create accounts and mingle with the community. To do that, we'd have to give listeners some incentive. Like user pages that they can dress up, for starters. The web is full of decent, respectable people. Not all of them are hackers or pedophiles. And we have enough quality moderation here, where I expect that aberrant behavior would be dealt with swiftly and appropriately. Maybe the idea of offering features to attract a "general" membership isn't a good one. For my part, I've at least been allowed to express thoughts on this, and I thank you for that.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 2:40 PM Hands up if you've been signed up by a label, had a song licensed by another artist or publisher or gotten gigs and bookings through a 3rd party having heard your music at Dmusic? Interesting post Woof. I don't think many people will have had the success here that Rodrica has attributed to Soundclick. Although I doubt that many of the labels do have staff that peruse such websites looking to sign up talent, although there are bands such as The Arctic Monkeys who got a deal through their prolific exposure on MySpace. The labels do have some 18 year old drones on mimimum wage or YTS though who they employ to spam and promote their stuff on these sites, as we regularly see on the forums and the 'news' sections....
Distilled1	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 2:57 PM there are many here that have but DMusic in it self is not a way to get label interest its up to us as the artist to work that angle this is a OMD site with a bit of social interaction between artist for the most part. Any one that thinks posting on ANY site and doing nothing will get them noticed is a fool. The Artic Monkeys .. not even looked into them or heard them but I bet they have a brick and morter following (live shows as well as a killer street team and fans that helped make someone take notice of the buzz.) PRoject 44 a Chicago band Empire Day has played with for oh 12+ years got a indie contract why? they didn't even have a web site for ever no place like this either, they played 6-7 days a week and did all the leg work now the indie label made a myspace and site for them. bottom line DMusic needs to have both what we have now and we need features to draw in more artist an easy user interface (clean and persise for all tools) as well we need to have some sort of social networking for listeners and fans as many people are not forum geeks (and this goes beyond music ,,,gaming even there are people that hate forums. the new generation is who will use this maybe us old farts wont but I tell you if we had things similar to a my space type deal (posting pics and players (basicly a build your page) my 2 kids would be here all the time, they get board with it after a while and go post bling crap on their friends pages. I am in a rant and off topic and wow/.... just my
leflaw	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:35 PM How do we get that? Do I have to hire five programmers? That means investors. Gulp.
Distilled1	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:43 PM skins...(coming) pro tools(coming)I think it can happen with embed and video as`well... flash players fans can click a song they like and add to their page..
Woof	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 3:56 PM Actually, the beauty of offering user configured web pages is that they are exactly what the term literally means: The users are responsible for the look of their pages. It's up to them to either write, edit, or find the css code that they paste on their page to customize the layout. Like HTML, it's a block of text. On MySpace, the user copies and pastes the text into the "About Me" area of their page, and then the result is displayed as an individualized, custom web page. Friendster also allows users to add HTML tags on their pages, to embed media players, slideshows, or YouTube videos. It's simply a matter of enabling the DM pages to run css and HTML code. Then the only limit is the imagination of the users themselves. I don't think that this would be difficult to do at all, but Jack or Pog would know more about that than me. As for the cost? Practically zero for DM. A little programming is all that would be involved. Very little.
leflaw	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 4:05 PM you talk to Pog, I will talk to jack. Jack!!!
GeneHilbert	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 4:07 PM The site was working the way it was. OK...... rehashing an old gripe - is this a valid argument? Was it the hippest? No.... Was it the Be all End all....? No Did it need a make over..? Undecided â€“ but in itâ€™s present condition I would rather have the old site. Did it work.....? Yes Did it work wellâ€¦? Yes Did it work betterâ€¦â€¦? Well Duhâ€¦.. To me functionality is job one. If you want to develop the next biggest baddest toaster oven, don't be like Microsoft and roll it out half baked and then fix it, and then fix it some more, and then fix it some more, then fix it some more. Learn a lesson - Get the damn thing ready first - then launch it...... My point is thisâ€¦â€¦.. You donâ€™t need 5 I.T. guys/gals full time. If you have 3 are. Are they full time? Are they part time? How much time do they devote to site development each week? Above all remember the KISS rule â€¦. Keep It Simple Stupid. Some one else might need to be able to work on it. Maybe Iâ€™m talking out of my assâ€¦â€¦.. Maybeâ€¦â€¦â€¦
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 5:14 PM Adding things such as video and pro tools support are luxury and not essential services. Gene is correct that the site was working OK before the rebuild. The rebuild wasn't handled as smoothly and efficiently as it could have been but we are not learning lessons from it, these pie in the sky ideas are been tossed around but really, it seems right now just like meaningless soundbites because we have gone nearly 2 months without a functional site. 2 months ago, my musical existence staked everything on Dmusic, I had deeplinks here from my website, I continue to associate my website with Dmusic, a site that is broken and I'm not sure why it is taking so long to fix, because I still have faith but that is wearing thin. This whole episode is like some kind of thriller/espionage book where we are presented with sensationalism, lies, rumors, truths, half truths, and it;s hard to know what is what anymore. I wish that we could just come to the truth and say exactly what is wrong, how long it is going to fix etc. Now we are hearing rumblings about people sabotaging the redesign, etc. Is this a truth or a convenient excuse ? Several members who work in IT are totally baffled by the length of time this is taking, is it a financial thing or a logistical thing or both. If these 'programmers' are not delivering, then why persist with them, get them fired and bring in people who can do the job properly. Or is because you can only afford grad students who don;t have the experience and are learning on the job as to why these delays are occurring? Yes, it's easy for me to say this when I don't know what you have to go through Larry, but if you layed all the cards straight out on the table and just gave us the honest truth, then a lot of people would have more empathy and respect for the site. Stuff like - are the uploads and comments lost forever. If they are, that's no big deal, they can be uploaded again, don't waste time trying to bring back a backup of this stuff. Let's just get the core site working and put on hold the video and pro tools (how many people are going to find this a useful feature, I don't have Pro Tools because IMHO it is a poorly featured program in it's affordable state (protools LE or M-Powered, not the tens of thousands of dollars PTHD)
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 5:35 PM If we need investors, how much investment is needed ? Should we try and establish a DMusic Fighting Fund ??
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 5:36 PM The re-design did work and work well compared to the old design. It's what happened during the transfer and what I think were a string of server issues after that caused everything to go belly up. Every single feature in the re-design was tested extensively, Gene. I know, I did a lot of testing, not just for reports but when I was looking for bugs I could exploit (things that made the screen change shape, injecting rogue code into various places - although Sham trying java script in his journal was pretty funny) which could be reported... Even if that seemed pointless half the time. This site design worked, a lot of people just didn't like the layout and that was fair enough but if you really thought the old design had less bugs, don't let me convince you otherwise. I know what I saw before and it sure as hell wasn't working better... At least not until something cocked up during the transfer of the new design over to the live server. Not even Joe saw that one coming, since we had run the new design for months without a single major issue like that. The errors now have fuck all to do with the re-design that you see... As for a sabotage theory, that's about as funny as hearing people say George Bush is a peacemaker. If someone DID screw with the site, it came from within the company handling the servers and not from any programmer on the outside, to make that quite clear. I had absolutely no reason to fuck up a site we enjoy visiting and interacting on, just making my bloody position clear before anyone starts looking in my direction. Besides, I've not been involved in the inner workings of this place for a year now... So... Screw the features to be added, just get the damn site back up and running already. If that means losing songs, fine. If that means losing pictures, fine. If that means the forums get reset, fine. If that means less of this helplessly watching the site devalue and devolve, GREAT! As for keeping things simple... 'Nuff said.
pog	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 6:28 PM I don't know that difficulty of allowing http code to be injected into userpages is so much an issue, but it certainly can create security problems and headache's for the coders. Injecting banner adds that are hosted on rogue sites comes to mind. IMHO the potential for exploits is quite high having people able to post hyperlinks. Imagine allowing people to embed scripts... the concept scares me, and is exactly why I don't let the kids use a lot of larger social networking sites... the cleanup is annoying. Not to mention if banned users were to launch an attack of some sort on the site, the risks increase tenfold. Bad enough when they do emoti-bombs in peoples shoutyboxes. Essentially, we need to look at why we use DMusic. Is it because we want to communicate with like minded musicians and upload our music, or is it because we want to fill our pages with over complicated bloat. Embedding media such as youtube and google video might be worth considering in the near future... a code could be included for that, I'm sure. But giving users complete control over the way their pages look... I can't help being concerned that every 3rd page I visit would be painful to look at, or full of exploits. I feel that this may detract from the overall functionality of the site more than anything.
pog	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 6:30 PM ...again this is just my humble opinion.
Woof	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 6:54 PM No need to qualify your input, Pog. I really wanted your opinion on this because you're right... running a script on any webpage is pretty dangerous unless there are safeguards in place. Before I continue along that path, though, I would like to ask... In your opinion, could this feature be added easily? Certainly there would be some less-than-stellar efforts, but part of the fun is being able to decorate your own site the way you'd like. Anyway, to continue with the pitfalls... let me ask: What if users couldn't go live with their code until it was reviewed and approved by DM Staff? In other words, they could edit and preview it to their hearts' content, but then in order for it to go live, they would have to submit it for review, and, once approved, DM would insert the code on their end. That way, we could offer all of the customization benefits to the community, without subjecting visitors (or DM in general) to risk. For example, scripts that download another script from a remote location wouldn't be allowed... and neither would hyperlinks to questionable sites... although, when it comes to that particular issue, I'm thinking that anybody could post a hyperlink to a questionable site on their page now. Only certain types of embeds would be allowed as part of the css code as well... your common slideshow and media players, frappr maps, .jpg's and .gif's, and that would be about it. something like that could work, couldn't it?
pog	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 7:51 PM Having code approval would make a significant workload. I was thinking that new features such as being able to add specific youtube videos, or change your userpage colour could be implemented, with unique codes to make adjusting the settings easier, and safer.
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 8:04 PM "What if users couldn't go live with their code until it was reviewed and approved by DM Staff?" I hope a long wait for approval wouldn't put you off then. Also, if you made a mistake and wanted to correct it, that's another long wait... There are better ways to this, I'm sure but going the MySpace way is about the dumbest thing this site could do... Apart from not make a backup. BBCode, I'm sure, could be expanded to deal with YouTube videos and the like, something like [YouTube] and then that string of characters e.g. v=Kcgl-jnngAk which is the end argument of a YouTube link... That way only a YouTube link would work in it (since the www.youtube.com part of the link would be executed within the site's own programming only)... A thought. Other animations and video sites could work the same way, with a BBCode tag for each.
pog	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 8:18 PM Read my mind... BBCode would be quite easy (in theory) to implement.
Rodrica	Date: February 18, 2008 @ 9:03 PM I think the main point I was making is being overlooked. But firstly to answer the question, yes, I have received a number of opportunities through being on music websites. Whether my own promo work encouraged them to turn up and check me out or whether they just stumbled across me on site I'll never know. Either way I need a reliable site that I can confidently put on my promo material and that both impresses visitors and conveys all the info they need to know about me in a usable and concise way. My point is that if YOU do the right things and so does your website - then you increase your chances of exposure to the people who can offer you further opportunities for your music. I doubt any of us are looking for international stardom - just a few interesting projects. All I'm saying is that if you bury yourself on a massive social networking site full of chat and unrelated stuff then your chances of attracting "quality" interest are virtually zero. Similarly the same applies to DMusic and it's future direction. Let's face the fact that we cannot out-spend these guys - we just have to find our own USP and niche market...and do it well. Investors want reliable/provable audience figures - bells and whistles won't achieve that, but a stable site that has a clear idea of its membership profile will. You can't sell advertising or sponsorships if you don't have a clue what you are delivering (or if you are going to be able to deliver it). That's why I'd like to see things simplified. And lastly, nobody seems to make enough noise about the fact that DMusic was a pioneering force with the "social networking" idea. This site should be going all-out to point out that social networking sites are copying DMusic and not the other way around. Establishing ourselves as the originators would certainly add to site credibility. Operational reliability first, marketing second. The rest can be sorted later.
leflaw	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 1:45 AM True enough. We were one of the first social networking sites. I hate social networking
leflaw	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 2:38 AM ...and I gotinto the internet to get away from telemarketing and advertising. Thats a laugh!
Distilled1	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 2:43 AM have you ever seen Dave Chapples skit on the internet
leflaw	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 3:20 AM Where the internet is like a shopping mall? And there is this one store selling DRM downloads for 99 cents, and another store opens across the aisle giving them away? I think so.
Distilled1	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 3:32 AM thats it that about sums up the internet
leflaw	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 3:36 AM Leflaw's summary of Dmusic 1998 - present. Angelo Sotira + Michael Ovitz "The world's first Musical Social Networking site" Angelo Sotira + Leflaw "First Dmusic redesign and The rise of Deviantart". Michele Robertson "Where the hell is the Mp3.com email list" Leah Reznik "The Russian Revolution" Joe Knapp (Someone told me he recently joined the circus - seriously). Leflaw (Until somebody else steps to the plate).
independentm...	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 4:44 AM 1998 huh? Wow. ings: "10 years gone - holding on" --Led Zeppelin
zedsalt	Date: February 19, 2008 @ 4:56 AM Not that I think my opinion should carry any great weight, but just to be sure I've stated it clearly enough: None of my complaints about the new design have anything to do with bugs. In forming those opinions, I imagined what the experience would be like without the predictable changeover difficulties. Hilbert is right; the old design was much more user-friendly and eye-pleasing. Sometimes, when almost everybody seems to think the same thing, almost everybody is right.

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