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Christmas Internet Battle of the Bands

Elu	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:20 AM I think this is all bullshit leflaw!...bull fu@&ing shit! How do you expect to bring dmusic off as promoting independent music when you rip all of us off the IBOB site without even asking what we think... I am rethinking everything about dmusic and what it is really about...you are doing what you want...what "you" want...you dont give a damn about us... leflaw...I was asked to be passive on this issue...as it was a misunderstanding! Well if it was then I would ask that you fix it...and make this work... you are now the bad guy!... I will never ever promote this site again unless you fix this.....you think threats are not cool...well you will get much more of them by acting like an ass!
Elu	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:22 AM Take me off your site...do whatever you want but dmusic will definately shut down by doing things of this callaber. I will be happy to take my money else where...
mazarick	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:35 AM Per request (and my concurrence), it is appropriate for me to stop my posting regarding this subject. I will comply with the request.
Elu	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 1:11 AM So what's next?...is leflaw god of all now?...I will not stop until he realizes his error in judgement. This is a free country and we have the right to free speach...is leflaw now in charge of what we can say?..... I am not a happy camper at this point...however I did repost my songs at internetbattleofthebands.com as an independent artist... Thanks for nothing LEF!!!!
Elu	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 1:30 AM Now that I have that out of my system...let me say what really bothers me about this whole thing... The IBOB was posted publically on this site. Even leflaw posted in this post early on...only to plug the dmusic compilation...which I sent music into a long time ago but was conveniently forgotten. You lost my music a couple of times if I remember. That is irresponsible on your part leflaw. I would have liked a proper response prior to being yanked at your will. If this was a hoax issue...why wasn't it brought up to everyone? It all happened within a couple of hours. That is just wrong. Think about us here leflaw. We all like dmusic...but to do things without any sort of explanation and then letting us gather up the pieces. Remember what this site is about...it is afterall your site. Any sort of publicity to get our music heard is a valid idea! I am obviously angered by all of this...and probably more than most of the other user's but the general feeling about all of this is that you are wrong sir! This was not a bad idea...but you are mostly to blame for the outcome. Coulda woulda shoulda!... Maybe next time you will read what is happening and tell us all before you play god.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 2:27 AM
Cryxan	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 2:43 AM This thread is insanely embarrassing. It's a contest, people. I think it would have been cool to see DMusic participate. It seems to me that the ENTIRE "issue" was the misuse of the word "sponsor," which didn't have to become such an issue if someone had just asked what "sponsor" really meant, before the accusations and subsequent namecalling started flying. Hux, KevBrock is not an intern; he is a DMusic guest who jumped on the bandwagon and took it to another level. Steal songs? Hey, artists that submitted music to the contest, do tell us if you had to agree to an Artist Agreement that asked you to relinquish the ownership of your music. I'm really curious, although it doesn't really matter anymore.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 2:47 AM i dont believe i am reading what i am seeing here... how did i miss all this? unbelievable... utterly... and i thought my conduct could be shitty at times? well... from what i see and hear it's done it's course. this is largely the result of ppl trying to do good for themselves and their site(s) and quite honestly we should've been together on this one... so sad. merry xmas to you all.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:05 AM I have to say I stand with Cryxan and CHillinBuzz here on this one... I am terrible and
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:12 AM
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:14 AM Merry Christmas to all indeed Chill
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:31 AM Thanks everybody. I have decided to limit the bandwidth to 3 megs this month. We can't afford this, and Mazarick has been rude and insulting to me in my own forum and in email. All Mazarick had to do was apologize for using our name without permission. Instead he attacks me. I asked him not to re-post and re-advertise, and instead he does it anyway. At the same time IN MY OWN PERSONAL FORUM after refusing to apologize or doing so. I don't tolerate rudeness in my house towards me. Not after what I have been through financially with this site, and fighting the RIAA with my own money for 11 years. I don't allow others to use DMusic's name and bandwidth as a "uploading point" without permission. At anytime, any of you could have uploaded tracks to his server. That was not apparently good enough for him. Mazerick has been deleted for refusing my request to stop promoting in my own personal forum on my own site. I have allowed DS Sultan privileges, since he was man enough to apologize. I know you may not my like my decision , but there it is. At the same time I am starting a record company with DaSuspectz, and am organizing our own battle of the bands, this guy comes along, chats it up with Fu-dog AFTER he posts in my forum, CC's me and figures now everything is cool. Uncool.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:59 AM oh delete the thread already. this shouldnt be continuing.
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 4:06 AM Nah, leave it up.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 4:24 AM I vote we delete the thread can we have a vote?
KevBrock	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 7:01 AM If the thread is embarrasing to you, just ignore it and don't reply to it. Simple. I can see that Mazarik is pissing everyone off already. The only reason he's here is that he's starved for attention, nothing more.
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 9:15 AM ELU - What on earth does the fact the it was a good or bad idea have to do with it? re-read my reasons for deleting Maserick.
Jcranfill	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 9:44 AM yay! A forum that censors it's users!
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 10:11 AM Jcranfill, I asked you read the terms of service. Thats all. Read it again. You've been here for 48 hours, and all you are doing is harrassing other members. Either stop or leave. Get it?
DSSultan	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:45 AM Thanks for allowing me to post. First and foremost I think sites like this one have a purpose on the internet. I wanted to state that Leflaw did not pull your songs, I did! It was my decision based on the goings on here that the site logo had been inappropriately used, so it was pulled. And the materials uploaded in this sites name were part of that. I also have revised the IBOB site to reflect a bit more accuracy on the reason it was created and the contest that was posted. There are no sponsors other than me, and my personal site. There is also no longer a sponsors page as I think Leflaw has some very valid points that I had not considered when I jumped in to help get this rolling. So I am reviewing these things as well and the site will be updated to reflect that. Also note that there is no money required for any of this, so yes the word 'sponsor' was the wrong term. Again that is my bad. For the record, I would like it noted that I am not Mazarick! Nor am I Hux. So any referrence that I am posing as anyone but myself is mistaken. I would like to continue a dialog with this site about maintaining a presence for it's users in what I feel can be a mutualy beneficial forum (i.e. IBOB and it's associated radio show). Now I know that is a plug in your personal forum Leflaw, but an appropriate one considering the issues at hand. I mention it only to be up front and honest that this is a legit deal I am talking about. I am sorry if you do not agree. All I ask is that we do it offline from this forum so we can avoid any further misunderstanding. It can only serve to help this site and ours as far as exposure for the artists, which is in fact the entire reason for this thing in the first place. If you do not wish to have any further dealings with the IBOB site or me, then that is your decision and I will abide by it. But please do let me know publicly so that the users here do not get left hanging. I feel this is a fair request considering the posts by them. Thanks for your time. Merry Christmas everyone.
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:51 AM No problem. If we had been approached like this upfront, we might have been willing to sponsor some of this. But Mazarick merely asked me what I thought of the collaboration project and never once asked me to sponsor it, or use our name or bandwidth. Thanks for the post.
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:53 AM Also, you can submit news on page 1, which will appear on page one.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:38 PM "If the thread is embarrasing to you, just ignore it and don't reply to it. Simple. I can see that Mazarik is pissing everyone off already. The only reason he's here is that he's starved for attention, nothing more." you can't see apparently, and everytime you keep continueing on with your remarks on this matter, this bandwagon you chose to jump on, without knowing jack squat, belittles you. talk about someone that SHOULD BE Embarassed. Mazarick is HERE cause I "asked" him to come share our community for his music KICKS ASS and I had expressed to him what a great place dmusic was and his contest I have personally watch him develope and been in touch with long before your for accusation even had a chance. stop like you stated in a note to me. get off the boat, and stop increasing the hate. "...pissing everyone off...." ??????? Kev... what two people.. that's everyone?? clarify?? and you comment on wanting to have their accounts deleted??? for attacking you???????????? again whatever. 27 going on 14
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 1:00 PM Jennae, enough.
DSSultan	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 1:35 PM I was actually goig to ask you about that. I had originally posted my 'freindly challenge' in the Shameless Promotions forum. But it got deleted almost immediately. Any clue as to why? Since that was the place for exactly that I did not understand the issue... I am just curious now that's all. Jannae, he's right of course.
DSSultan	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 1:36 PM And how do you edit a post! AGH!
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 2:26 PM ehnough for KEV too then.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 2:39 PM DS you don't btw. Not an option
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:09 PM Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:04 PM ( delete ) re: editing posts: I think you have to erase the post and paste it back in and then correct it. If that doesn't work , ask fu-dog via d-note. I am not sure why your post was deleted from "shameless promotions." I didn't delete it. I will look into it, however.
robin101	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:13 PM I though that I was the only one to be harsh on this site. Someone's going to take my trophy awy from me.
robin101	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 3:14 PM Jennae, be reasonable.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 5:28 PM robin..
KevBrock	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:07 PM One more thing to point out, leflaw said in a early post that if he didn't want other users fighting in this thread and when he said "let the staff take care of this", then how are we supposed to let the staff take care of this situation when this whole bullshitting was made publicly? If this discussion is made publicily, that gives the freedom for everyone to read and join in on the discussion. You can tell them to "Not Post in this thread" or "Go back to making music" all you want, but whether you like it or not, they will keep posting in this thread. So if leflaw wanted to discuss this situation with the competition owners, then it's best if they do it privately instead of publicly. Since it's already too late that this thread was made publicly, everyone's going to join in on the discussion and speak what's on their mind. This is a message forum. When things are made public they will join in whether you like it or not. Just my 2cents. My 2nd advice is for the owners of this dumb contest, 1. You should've been more responsible before actually making the contest public. 2. Let us know how we are getting free studio time if we actually win (which you never said anything about). 3. Before posting your stupid lies and excuses, make sure you do your research and carefully learn about answers instead of saying bullshit stuff flike "I'm not 100% certain" or something like that. 4. For those in this thread who are bitching about us bitching about the contest, can you blame us? It's our damn song. I will say this one more time, when we write music and upload it to a competition and if it has potential to be a fake contest. We have every right to defend ourselves. Jennae, just one question, how would you feel if you upload a song for them and then they send your song to some other musician, the other musician will redo YOUR song to his/her own version, and release it on a CD publicly without YOUR permission? Wouldn't that piss you off? Sure it would. Any musician would get pissed if their song is stolen from some lame contest. That's why we have every right to fight for our music. 5. Like leflaw keeps saying, before making competitions on a music site, you should let the admins know ahead of time. If you do it that way, that way we would know that's it NOT a scam and a fake. Just coming in here out of the blue, advertising and spamming gets us thinking that it is a fake and a scam. That is why some of us are giving you a hard time. 6. Give proof right up front that the contest is real just like all songwriting contest do. Most songwriting contest gives actual proof by filling out an application online or mail in an application to enter. That's the way proffesional music contest do it. I've have never seen a contest where the contest host just gave you a login and password just to go in there and upload your song without enetering or filling applications or anything. That's another reason why this contest could have been a potential fraud. That's all I can think of as of now.
leflaw	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:39 PM I haven't criticized the contest itself. I just don't like to invest all my cash in a website, and have people willy-nilly appropriate our goodwill. I am not saying to any one here don't join the contest. I merely wish to exercise my rights to refrain. The problem, as I see it, is that the design of the contest bundled my rights with all of yours, so I couldn't decline without affecting you, and I was in the midst of designing some promotions myself with Da Suspectz. ps: and it didn't help putting the ads in Leflaw's forum. Peace.
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:55 PM Kev.. blah blah blah blah blah... did they twist your arm and make you enter this contest??? NO! keep your music .. this is a dead topic anyways.. beating this dead horse ain't going to make anything change.
johnnygnote	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 8:25 PM I'm just glad to see some progress between Leflaw and DSSultan, that is the most important thing so far in this thread that has evolved out of this problem. My hats off to you gentlemen for making amends. I think we all should focus on that fact and stop the internal bickering. Some of us have been here longer and have more to say and some of us are new and need to stop and look at the history in order to understand why some of us feel the way we do. Lotta history with some of us here so the newbies need to relax and check it out. I'm relatively new myself, so take it for waht it's worth.
KevBrock	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:02 PM I am new too, as I just registered this fantastic site a few weeks ago. So I know nothing about anything quite yet. I quickly assumed that the contest was fake because of the reasons I've explained above.
KevBrock	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:22 PM I guess I'm going to be done with this argument anyway, since all people going to do is whine and complain. Sad how people don't care about the songwriters ownership of the work of art. The Music Bussiness is full of lies and bullshit. As a matter of fact, the guys in this contest are probably not even proffesionals anyway, just a bunch of wannabes trying get promoted.
KevBrock	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:24 PM "the guys in the contest" comment is added straight to the contest hosts.
huxtable	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:37 PM >you giving it away? Yes, as a matter of fact - and thanks for asking! I have donated 100% of the server storage space and bandwidth for artistcollaboration.com and now IBOB. no payment due. nada. I said to Sully one day "ya know, if I were to get hit by a bus you'd be screwed", so he started offering hosting to pay the bills. I help with support and setup. Simple as that, you friggin goober. Maybe in your little world everything falls back to the mighty dollar, but some folks do things simply because it's a nice thing to do. I've been donating this for somewhere around 4 years. No, I am not in the hosting business, and no, I suspect I can't hide. Especially when I stand here in your living room calling you a clown. Clown. Fucking super-clown, you are. >>I've limited bandwidth to 3 megs, we can't afford this Please, oh please, give me a break. Now there's a classic scam. "oh, I spend so much keeping this available, won't you please subscribe to my premium service? I'm fighting the good fight for YOU!" I will give you some server space and bandwidth for free, how's that? No cost to you, or(more importantly) your users. How much you need? Oh wait, that might ruin yer sales strategy, right? >>500,000 of my own money... oh wait, I understand now - yer not mean, you're stupid. If I dropped 500k on development and only got this I'd be a bitter, hateful son of a bitch too. Just in case your 500k forum doesn't parse html correctly - an "i" means start italics, and "/i" means end italics. here's a much better deal on your bandwidth: http://www.ev1servers.net/english/pentium4_series.asp there's damn near a terrabyte a month for less than $150. Wouldn't want anyone going hungry, especially not a big shot trademark lawyer. Oh, and let me solve that self streaming problem for ya: limit the damned plays per day. 50 ought to about do it. After that, they don't count toward chart position. You can have that one for free - or apply it toward the 500k bill you've supposedly amassed. Dumbass. Should take about 30 minutes for any developer with half a brain to develop. What's that gonna cost you, about 30 grand? No wonder you're so goddamned paranoid. one last thing, KevBrock - I heard your song, and I heard your stuff publicly available here on your playlist - sleep sound knowing that noone is going to be stealing your stuff. You are 100% safe. Trust me. I zapped your file from the server the other night, along with any other identified as being from here. DMusic is not allowed on my server. Not your logo, not a text link. not an email link, not a goddamned thing. If your users want to submit songs that's great, but they'll be doing so as independents. I'll be banning your entire subnet from the server sometime tomorrow, as I can't stand the thought of your beady little eyes receiving anything I pay to deliver. Sully and you can make nice all you want, so help me I will suspend that site immediately should I see a single link back to this shithole. This contest is as simple as it looks. List of songs, somebody wins and gets a prize. There is no plot to steal your christmas songs. Sometime around the middle of January, I guess, when the prizes are handed out you'll see just how stupid you were to attack like this. The "100% certain" part comes from the fact that I simply run the server, not the contest. I get the feeling that even leflaw, when reading your posts, thinks to himself "Don't help". >>I haven't criticized the contest itself. You called us liars, scammers, and thieves. Fuck you, pal. My turn to call YOU a scammer - lift your lame-ass bandwidth restriction on your users, and give away the "premium" service. Allow deep linking. Try it. The indigestion will go away, and you might make a few bucks, too. Delete this one too, I promised Sully I'd not post any more here, and I'll honor that promise as of now." id="75485">you giving it away? Yes, as a matter of fact - and thanks for asking! I have donated 100% of the server storage space and bandwidth for artistcollaboration.com and now IBOB. no payment due. nada. I said to Sully one day "ya know, if I were to get hit by a bus you'd be screwed", so he started offering hosting to pay the bills. I help with support and setup. Simple as that, you friggin goober. Maybe in your little world everything falls back to the mighty dollar, but some folks do things simply because it's a nice thing to doI've limited bandwidth to 3 megs, we can't afford this Please, oh please, give me a break. Now there's500,000 of my own money... oh wait, I understand now - yer not mean, you're stupid. If I dropped 500k on development and only got this I'd be a bitter, hateful son of a bitch too. Just in case your 500k forum doesn't parse html correctly - an "i" means start italics, and "/i" means end italics. here's a much better deal on your bandwidth: http://www.ev1servers.net/english/pentium4_series.asp there's damn near a terrabyte a month for less than $150. Wouldn't want anyone going hungry, especially not a big shot trademark lawyer. Oh, and let me solve that self streaming problem for ya: limit the damned plays per day. 50 ought to about do it. After that, they don't count toward chart position. You can have that one for free - or apply it toward the 500k bill you've supposedly amassed. Dumbass. Should take about 30 minutes for any developer with half a brain to develop. What's that gonna cost you, about 30 grand? No wonder you're so goddamned paranoid. one last thing, KevBrock - I heard your song, and I heard your stuff publicly available here on your playlist - sleep sound knowing that noone is going to be stealing your stuff. You are 100% safe. Trust me. I zapped your file from the server the other night, along with any other identified as being from here. DMusic is not allowed on my server. Not your logo, not a text link. not an email link, not a goddamned thing.I haven't criticized the contest itself. You called us liars, scammers, and thieves. Fuck you, pal. My turn to call YOU a scammer - lift your lame-ass bandwidth restriction on your users, and give away the "premium" service. Allow deep linking. Try it. The indigestion will go away, and you might make a few bucks, too. Delete this one too, I promised Sully I'd not post any more here, and I'll honor that promise as of now.
KevBrock	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:29 AM "one last thing, KevBrock - I heard your song, and I heard your stuff publicly available here on your playlist - sleep sound knowing that noone is going to be stealing your stuff. You are 100% safe. Trust me. I zapped your file from the server the other night, along with any other identified as being from here." I don't believe you. DSultan just said you weren't the host of the contest, so stop acting like one. Can't we all get along? It's you, hux, that's got the fighting going with you immaturely attacking others for no reason. I am beggining to agree with Jennae that this thread needs to be gone so we can end this game of kindergarten soap operas begging for a lollipop battle.
johnnygnote	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:37 AM Huxtable you missed something here Lef and Sul have worked out their differences, It seems you haven't. Now I'm offended by your behaviour, This is not a forum for you to post your personal feelings about L if you want to call him names and complain about his way of dealing with DM do it on a personal level. Write him directly. Don't be stupid yourself. Regardless of who you are or what you say you can do this is L's baby not yours. You already broke your promise to Sully by posting your abusive rant here. Dude get a grip and chill out. Go your own way create your own Music website and be the final word there. This is not your place to be pushing weight around. Basicly BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, how much money have you put in to DM how many hours have you spent to make it work, come on buddy. This is BS and you have pushed it way past the limit. Normaly I wouldn't lower mysef to your level but Fuck You!
Jennae	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:47 AM Kev...kid.. you're getting on my last nerve
Jennae	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:49 AM lead by example
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 2:57 AM Hey Hux, whats your Alexa ranking? You talk the talk. But you can't walk the walk, now, can you? You play an instrument? You've been challenged. I'd normally be offended by the ambisexual ramblings of this cracker, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he can't play music too well. Put up your best track. I say you can't play shit. I say I can play the rings around you. I say I can shove my violin bow or my Strat up your ass, and it would probably improve your playing, if thats what you call it. Every played the Kennedy Center? Ever played a 20,000 person festival? Ever been on TV? ( not including the time you were arrested for masturbating in public). Best track, putz. Oh here's the best part - I control Gnutella.com and Boycott-riaa and you are about to become famous, although not for what you want to be famous for. Ah, you probably don't even play an instrument. Your probably a drummer. (just a joke, all you percussion fans.) You talk the talk. But you can't walk the walk, now can you?
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:12 AM Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:09 AM ( delete ) BTW, Sux, I was curious about your hosting suggestion, so I checked it out. 2) 80 GB Hard Drives (7200RPM) 700GB Monthly Transfer 1 Gig Ram HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be a superb webmaster. Thats why you you needed this place to promote your teenie weenie wittle startup. I didn't come to your site for promotion, now did I? You clearly don't have much experience at this stuff either. Ever hear of a load balancer? Data base server? Redundancy? 150 bucks a month is a joke. No wonder you don't mind giving it away. Did you know that Mp3.com had 1300 servers? You are way over your head. Amateur.
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:51 AM More BTW: At Dmusic, we allow news postings on the front page. We don't care if you promote a contest there. Thats what its for. Instead you spam my personal forum and put my logo on your site and call us sponsors. Pig.
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 9:28 AM Apparently I am not the only webmaster who agrees with this doctrine called "kick rude outsiders off your website". http://www.rocketears-online.net/cgi-bin/teemz/teemz.cgi?board=_master&action=opentopic&topic=5&forum=The_Sunday_Morning_Post
Jcranfill	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 9:53 AM At what point does a rude outsider become a rude insider?
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 10:03 AM We don't have rude insiders here. Not for long, anyway.
robin101	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:05 PM Wow, what an abrupt ending... What happened, everyone got tired out? (just kidding gang). Rick
johnnygnote	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 1:51 PM Nope I'm still here . Lef
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 2:27 PM Really. I guess Hux is out taking some emergency guitar lessons.
robin101	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 2:29 PM Mel Bay #1 is good.
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:11 PM Mel bay is an excellent choice, but too complicated for Hux. Perhaps Alfred's Basic Guitar Method?
Jennae	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:25 PM un.....fuckin....real~
KevBrock	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:52 PM Hux is probably out buying fisher price guitars from Walmart trying to learn twinkle little star or jingle bells.
leflaw	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 3:58 PM Whats the matter Jen? I guess they don't like challenges after all.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 4:00 PM merry xmas.
KevBrock	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 4:16 PM Obviously people take the internet seriously and can't take jokes. We're just having a little fun with Hux here who seems like a very negative person and an easy target. Do we really want that rudeness from competitions owners? I think NOT.
fu-dog	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 5:13 PM This thread is obviously going nowhere and has been for quite some time. If anyone would care to post a new and more "reasonable" thread and not let it decay, please feel free. As for this thread, it's now locked and a moment in DMusic history.

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