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New Artist Uploads Policy

fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:10 PM Changes to this policy have been made already to serve you better * " id="70597">You'll find that we've instituted an upload limit based on both file space usage and number of tracks. The free artist account is limited to either 50MB of space or 8 tracks. The subscribing artist gets 20 tracks and 100MB of space, and an increase of individual track upload size to 16MB. When set up, the next level of artist subscription will support a great many more tracks, a heck of a lot more harddrive space, new filetypes (such as APE, FLAC, MPC, OGG, and probably raw WAV files), and 32MB MB track uploads via the website. We are also looking into alternative upload methods as we will eventually be allowing even larger filesizes. Stay tuned. ----- Note: All artists with work uploaded prior to today have been grandfathered into the new system. If you had more than the limit in regards to space or number of tracks, none of your existing work will be removed. However, if you wish to add new work, you will need to either drop below the new instituted limits or upgrade your account. Note 2: This new system has been set up to help DMusic continue to exist. It's still not an inexpensive website to run, and we need to start bringing in enough money to pay our bills. That being said, we will be watching closely for system abuse. Anyone that creates new user accounts (as of today) to circumvent the system will have their new account(s) removed, and may have their old account(s) removed as well. We will not tolerate abuse as it directly affects the level of services we can provide to everyone here at DMusic. Help us help you. * Changes to this policy have been made already to serve you better ***
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 12:55 PM so say I have 16 song already uploaded... does this mean in order to upload a new song I have to delete one of the 16 and then I can upload the new file for 16 total still seeing im grandfathered? or does this mean I Will have to delete 7 songs just to upload a new song to have 10 total?
ChillinBuzz	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:02 PM i thought subscribing might get a little more than 20... im sorry but considering things lately that poo-poos things. the site must live on sure - and if ppl got multiple accounts fine delete them - i guess though if anyones above their limit, that means a loss of music if they want to add anything new - and i think a lot of the better and more prolific members here best think of a)subscribing or b) uploading new ideas, the thing that keeps the ball rolling as well, somewhere else. 20.
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:12 PM Jennae: The grandfathering means we will not remove your tracks. It does not mean you gain a higher level of limited uploads than any other artist of the same subscription status. ChillinBuzz: Those numbers are the current ones set. That doesn't mean they are written in stone. If someone has reasoning behind making alterations to those numbers, then by all means let's hear them. There are a lot of folks that have uploaded their "beats," and these do not take up much space. I was thinking that we might lower the filespace limit and increase the track limit so as to be more fair to such users. Eight beats that are only 200k mp3s means that user's not using many of our resources at all. How about numbers more along these lines: free) 15 tracks or 30 MB level one subscription) 40 tracks or 60 MB level X subscription) to be determined via previous ratios My only concern with increasing track limits is that artists will drop the quality level of their songs so that they can fit more tracks in under a given level of space usage, thus decreasing the overall quality of what's available. No doubt there will be some such adjustments anyway, but my concern was for causing a system-wide phenomena of crap-tracks. Artists... what say you?
spiralmux	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:14 PM I also thought subscribing would get more than 20 tracks. The main problem I have with this is not the space limitation, though. As I have mentioned before, the site is simply not reliable enough for me to feel comfortable paying for the service. Mostly the .com or .net pages go down entirely. But also it looks like major code editing is taking place live on the production server, causing SQL errors, disappearing songs, disappearing shoutboxes, etc. This should be done in a staging area and not copied over until its functionality is verified. It's not hard to do, and almost every even semi-professional site does this. You don't even need a separate machine; I've done it myself with a prototyping virtual host. If you want me to pay for the service, you are trying to provide a professional service, and there are certain expectations that come with that. I also have a question. I already have two user accounts, and have for some time, for the simple reason that I have my solo work and a band. How does this affect me? Is this considered a legitimate reason for having two accounts? Please do not delete anything before letting me know what's up.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:18 PM even if I update my membership... I STILL can't upload any new music so I'm at a dead and I suppose... granted I have over 50 songs, but mind you about 40 of those songs are in collaborated efforts showcasing fellow memebers and musicians, that I have worked with in this community. THE only sad thing is.. the 5 other collabs currently in the works... unless the fellow collaborater is capable of affording space to upload the project, well, obviously I can't upload it or anything. and I can't see deleting say 30 songs if I even subscribe I guess the only real option here is to strip the music down and upload 8 songs........ hell chillinBuzz and I HAve that much alone in collaborations. But I suppose maybe PEOple can rotate their 8 selections but on the other hand... anything of mine on p2p will have more of a reason to be there now. THis will also hinder collaborating i think. although I too understand trying to be able to run, afford and support this site. rock and a hard spot when becoming a subscriber still doesn't offer my an alternative. NOt trying to bitch but I am depressed with my options. obviously this isn't going to be a great realization, but I do understand that we are and have been fortunate to be allowed as much as we have, for I know other sites havenot been as generous. I hope this new regulation brings fourth the income dm deperately needs. Mp3.com is about to slaughter us with new arrivals and I CAN say I BLAMe the limit being put in place. MAke sense. Just..... I"M gonna go cry now ..................
spiralmux	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:26 PM I see this really does screw users like Jennae who have been here seemingly forever, have a lot of songs and also participate a lot. Why not make points mean something? I.e. advanced users get more uploads or whatever. These members contribute a ton to the community and help define the interaction and its very existence. Why not show some appreciation for loyal, active users?
Maffmatix	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:26 PM hmmmmmmm. well we were gonna pay a bit soon... hmm.
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:27 PM instituting an upload limit for subscribers is going to keep a lot of people from subscribing and also upset those who already have subscribed. there has to be some other way to conserve space... i completely agree with the 8 song upload limit for non-subscribers; i think that is generous enough yet conservative enought to try to convince people that subscribing is a good idea. um... so yeah. 20 seems a bit small, its not even 2 full albums. subscription levels is definitely a good idea, along with the __MB or __ songs. i think putting the limit on EITHER space or number of songs, whichever happens last, would be a much better idea. that would take care of the difference in song lengths for many people. people need to understand that this IS a capatilistic society and you can't get something for nothing. dmusic is being generous by granting ANY space to non subscribers. by rights, should we really be allowed to utilize their webspace/servers/resources without paying a single dime? i think its really important for all of us to realize that we may have to make some sacrifices here. its imperative that we work together and not give up on each other. everything is going to be OK!
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:31 PM there are a lot of wide variety of crap tracks.. true indeed, but I WILL also say that many of the crap track artist are not involved in this site eenough to even know about this taking place. But there are also many NON crap tracking artist here as well. for example the recent upload of a 27 minute NOISE TRACk, and that was one of 40 some off tracks.. and 27 minutes????? for one song?? that sounds like static? anyways iI DON"T want to claim whaat is and is not music, we are not all of best quality, nor do all of us have the best equiptment to be top of the line, and who am I to claim what is and is not music or of quality by any other standards than my own It's a rock and a hard spot... as one of the more active and participating artist this will have great effects on me personally, and for obviousl erasons I will be discomforted. but from the sites stand point and it's need to push on with the necessities I also understand. although membership, seeing as there arent many at this point, II Think should remain unlimited, as as you get more artist, and once the artist subscribing become a stress on the uploading system... well then I would bring fourth the limits. AND just do a promo for the subscription saying " first 6 months of your subscription will have unlimited uploads", and there after you can drop it to a limit at that point. maybe 6 months is a lot, but It's just a suggestion.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:42 PM it would be cool if you could gain a song upload for every 10,000 or 20,000 points you accumulate per say, but then all of a suden points will have a purpose and that could bring fourth either A) more community intereaction in efort to gain points, or B) more stupid threads and post that are senseless just to GAIN points I do think offering the subscibers X amount of time for unlimited uploading until a limit is in place is a great idea seeing as I CAN subscribe now, but i STILl can't upload anything But if the uploads were unlimited for a slotted amount of time, well then I Could suscrobe and I Could upload... but maybe this is only pertaining to me mainly.
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 1:45 PM Mux, as i'd mentioned above, previous instances of multiple user accounts will not be affected. In fact, i now take the time to ammend that. If you don't have an obscene amount of user accounts we will not make adjustments to your situation. IE - If you're rocking five or six or tweleve user accounts right now, then we're going to have a bit of a problem to work out. In regards to the staging area: I agree with you it's something we need. I have requested a standalone staging server since i first went full-time last January. A virtual host won't cut it because i sometimes need to install new packages to the OS, and version conflicts have caused this server problems in the past. I have other boxen that could potentially be used as staging servers, but the way the current code-base and virtualhost setup is structured, doing work on a development server would practically halt my productiveness. I won't go into particulars, but i can say that my current development changes have included major alterations to the site so as to allow for a future staging area. The missing .com and .net pages should be resolved about now. They're virtual hosts, and they're occasional disappearances were related to running off of a single, not so happy DNS server. In the last week i have bumped our DNS services over to six beefy DNS servers run by our colocation facility. When the intert-wide caching has sync'd, this problem should be gone. ----- Uploads & Song rotation: Do not delete any songs that you have on the servers right now to make room for uploading more. One of the options being discussed previously was that we allow users to upload a lot of tracks, but only make a certain number available at once. This means you'd be able to keep a bunch of songs stored (good for dialup users) and just select a few to have displayed on your page. It looks like i'll be setting this up within the next few days. ----- Jennae, obviously you have a problem with the new setup. Most, if not all, users are going to have complaints. Going back to my second post in this thread and expanding upon it: Artist's, what say you? Give your ideas here on how we can make this new system as fair as possible for the different types of artists and their goals without abandoning the system altogether.
woodhead	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:00 PM My only concern with increasing track limits is that artists will drop the quality level of their songs so that they can fit more tracks in Couldnt you have it so the servers take only 128 bit to 196 bit or something like this. It would stop any one from uploading a low quality mp3, and also restrict the large mp3 from being loaded there fore giving more room? Just a thought.
spiralmux	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:10 PM You can still do a staging area on one box with a chrooted environment. Of course, this is more difficult to set up and I understand any reluctancy to do so. I don't know how to do it offhand, either, but I thought I'd suggest it in case it is a viable option. Another option for offline development is just to make a copy of the file you're editing on the production server with a new name. Then just copy it back over the original file once it's been tested. It may be somewhat ghetto, but it's better than editing in-place. Also it obviously does not solve problems with installing new versions of libraries, etc. I really hope that the DNS changes solve the reliability problems I and others have been having. Once this problem is resolved and the in-place editing has stopped, then I will subscribe. DMusic is a valuable service to me, but only if I can trust it will be there when I need it, or when I need someone to listen to my music.
victorsskull	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:10 PM already deleted my 15 extra tracks so there are only 8 left oh well
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:15 PM i'm not having a problem with what does need to be done.. I do agree on this step needs to be taken, I am just saying that my particulair situation puts me in a difficult spot is all.
furiousBall	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:22 PM on track rotation - dm would be hosting inactive songs (i.e. taking up server space) - does that really help the situation? if these ideas weren't set in stone, why are we imposing these limits before giving us a heads-up and may getting input from some artists? i'm glad you're asking for input now, but i think it's a good idea to turn the limits off now so more situations like vic don't occur
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:26 PM i don't think its really fair for anyone to make assumptions that dmusic should be changed or not changed just because of their personal situation. like i said before, EVERYONE is going to have to make some sacrifices and compromises. i think its pretty obvious that the admins are willing to work with us here. most sites would have sent out a mass email that said "deal with it". here, we have people willing to listen to our concerns and implement changes. everyone just needs to stay calm!
spiralmux	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:36 PM I agree with facemachine to a point. OTOH, this is the kind of change where it would be appropriate to note all users a week or more in advance, and (if you want to at all) start taking comments and making necessary changes before launching it. It seems like his was implemented on a whim. Yes, there were vague mentions of it months ago, but nobody specifically said, "here's wthat's coming and when," or if they did, I missed it. Another concern I have is that if these limits are not set in stone, how do I know what I'm paying for if I subscribe? Is there a contract that spells out exactly what I get? What if I subscribe and then you guys lower the limits? There needs to be some assurance that I will get at least x uploads or whatever, in writing at the time of subscription (before payment). I hate legalese as much as the next guy, but this is pretty basic and probably a chart of what each account level gets and a promise that the limit won't be lowered, at least for the term of the subscription, would suffice. The current subscription page makes no mention of upload limits at all that I can find (another indication this was launched before fully thought through and ready to go).
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:45 PM yes mux, i agree it was kind of crappy to just change things all of the sudden. i didn't really know what what going to happen until i specifically asked someone about it, wondering if it was a rumor or what. and at that time, i was assuming that the limits would only apply to non-subscribers. but i mean, we just can't upload MORE songs right now... its not like they just went thru and deleted our stuff.
furiousBall	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 2:58 PM I think dm would be better served to get this limit situation configured in a way that makes their customers happiest before rolling it out, that will make them more money with a better honed product and give us a better service as well.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 3:01 PM very well said Dj and I too appreciate the staff trying to work out solutions with us or at least listening to us bitch and not drawing a hard line as of yet so to speak. Mux has got a very strong point as far as subscibers go ... there should be SOMETHING in stone for them seeing as they are paying, and they are now paying for a different service than they signed up for is you ask me but with so many people in so many various areas and situations and styles and types of musicians here in place, obviously it's going to affect us all dfferently in many ways. This was coming way back BEFORE Feb... hence the donation hence the compilation Cd idea hence dm trying to find ways and means to create revenue... it was a move that had to be made... unlilke vic, I have no intention on deleting 45 songs of mine jsut to upload one track. not a fair trade so I guess my uploading days are through like I said I can't even subscribe and continue to upload. dm has done a damn fine job of allowing me and many others to upload and host our music freely for a long time, we really can't complain much. I just like too although from a subscibers point of view that is another issue. I will say that anyone that has collaborated with me and has any of our collaborations on your page, you are able to delete that collab to make more room on your page if need be, my page now will remain as is and stagnant, I will not change my artist page or song page and will be willing to keep those existing collabs on my page so you can upload other tracks if need be. Just contact me to confirm with me if you do so,
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 3:07 PM i'm sure everything will turn out fine. this is just the first day of this being implemented, no? i have faith in our admins and they wouldn't keep anything implemented that wasn't going to work out for the best in the end.
Lcrowley	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 3:14 PM FU-Dog, You are being VERY fair .. the tier system is the BEST way to handle all of this stuff .. you set up 3 or 4 tiers... Try to keep them reasonable and the artists choose which one is best for them ... and set it up to where they can upgrade if they want .. in an easy way ... say Mary chooses level one tier and then in the middle of the month says oh damn I am going to need more space ... so you, pro-rate her monthly charge for that month to reflect the change .. and then the next month she pays the higher charge ... You are not EVER going to make everyone happy... all you can do is be fair, like you always are ... and they will learn to accept what you choose ... or they won't ha ha ha .. I would also make a suggestion that you set a timeline for yourself .. and once the company stablizes .. you do some lower lever localized advertising for the site .. getting the consumer here will help you with costs as well .. I will stand behind any decision you make on this stuff .. because I can definately see how fair you are with this stuff ! Lana
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 3:20 PM good ideas lana
mracky	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:11 PM having deleted some of my tracks today to make room (before this post occurred), may i add one other suggestion. can we have a common space for the tiered limits where the artist can go to find the numbers?
victorsskull	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:17 PM mp3.com.au doesnt limit us at all Ive had over 50 songs up at once
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:28 PM I just signed up thanks Vic... soundclick.com too you can upload a ton if anyone needs more space
furiousBall	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:30 PM do either of those sites allow deep linking?
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:43 PM I'm think soundclick does let's find out brb
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:44 PM SoundClick is still free and there are no track limits whatsoever. Although, I do like dmusic more. There are quite a few totally free services out there and I do understand that dmusic does need money to operate... why not offer something like SC? They'll sell you "doll up your page" services, promo stuff and all sorts of extra junk that I don't want... but I do see people using the services. They also have pop up ads that generate a revenue stream. There's probably a ton of extras that they sell, but I only remember a couple. SC does not allow deep linking without a subscription.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:45 PM http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=500419&q=Hi this is the hi fi link from soundclick of GRIMEY STREETS... does it work?
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:46 PM just takes you to my page apparently
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:46 PM I'm uploading on mp3.au so I will let you know in a minute on that one
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:47 PM Almost forgot... SC allows multiple accounts too.
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:52 PM Try this one too... http://www.besonic.com From what limited information I have... there are no upload limits and its free too.
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:54 PM Test for a stream from besonic http://www.besonic.com/Home/0,1588,g0r0l0t0o0i0,FF.html#
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 4:55 PM Seems that besonic's streams are lo-fi only
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:02 PM mp3.com.au test http://www.mp3.com.au/PlayASX.ASP?id=61726&Stream=96&File=Test.asx Although its only a 64kbps stream and on my end it links to WMP.
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:33 PM * addendum * I have been developing a "collaboration lock" feature for subscribing artists. This will enable them to grant access only to certain users on the site for any given track. Collaboration access tracks will be above and beyond the track display limit posed on artist pages. This means that collaborating artists can go to a special section where their collab tracks are displayed and accessable independantly of the artist/band page. I note this so that the above limits come across as less of an imposition to those of you involved heavily in the creative aspect of the community here. ----- mracky: A common space for the tier levels will be added to the help section, the subscription page, and links will be made from the artist's manager as soon as they are available. " id="70673">Wow. You guys are pretty quick to hang yourselves overboard for everybody to see. Are you going to jump or not? You even use DMusic forums to test other service's viability. Now there's caring and consideration in action! The update: i've changed the song administration page. You'll now find a "live" menu category. You can now upload as many tracks as your file storage will allow. However, you can only set X tracks live on your artist page at one time. This is done via the * symbol under the "live" heading of the music manager. The big red * means that your track is live. Everyone who has more than X tracks visible right now is grandfathered into having those tracks displayed. However, if you alter any of the "live" flags of those tracks, you will automatically be lowered to the limited display level of your current membership status. Now, regardless of your membership status, when you upload a track it will not be made live until you click the 'live' * to make the track available. This gives you time to edit the extra track info, and make sure things are ship-shape before you set sail. The limits have changed thusly: free) 40 MB upload limit, 8 tracks live limit subscription level one) 100 MB upload limit, 20 tracks live futher subscription levels) to be discussed/implemented * addendum * I have been developing a "collaboration lock" feature for subscribing artists. This will enable them to grant access only to certain users on the site for any given track. Collaboration access tracks will be above and beyond the track display limit posed on artist pages. This means that collaborating artists can go to a special section where their collab tracks are displayed and accessable independantly of the artist/band page. I note this so that the above limits come across as less of an imposition to those of you involved heavily in the creative aspect of the community here. ----- mracky: A common space for the tier levels will be added to the help section, the subscription page, and links will be made from the artist's manager as soon as they are available.
withering	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:13 PM "The newbie POW": I think these limits rock. They will definitely raise the overall level of the music here at DMusic, and probably create less headaches and more for the admins... BUT I think for the 'Subscriber' option to be persuasive, you need to offer unlimited backlog capacity. Put the ol' files on an ancient server with lots of Gb's and limited bandwith. Make them available from a link on the artist's page, only for download. Then the artist will feature his/hers best/favourite songs on the main page, yet have a place to keep their old sins from passing away into the digital oblivion. (Sorry, got carried away there... ) "The obvious yet important statement": Paying something versus paying nothing is a HUGE difference. Doubled upload limits are just a matter of degrees. If you want to generate revenue from subscriptions, you need to sit down and think reeally hard of something that adds great value. For me, uploading raw WAV CD-quality songs would be one such thing. Offering that feature to all non-paying users would surely be madness (whoops - there went them 29978 Gb...)? I think the original limits (50Mb/8tracks) sounds good. Allowing more tracks would only defer the quality. And if somebody wants to upload their noises/loops/whatever, there must surely be a place on the web somewhere more appropriate to do that?
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:14 PM NOt jumping ship... just trying to find a place that's free and no limits. None of this means I'm leaving DM. I'm just looking for more hosting space. The problem is that I have about 25 recorded songs sitting around waiting to be "perfected". I wish I would have known this was going to happen earlier. I would have done something, but now it would seem the choice has been made for me.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:19 PM what Bill said... mostly. Definitely not jumping ship But i will personally need to sort other means of uploading music if I am not willing to delete 45 other songs just so I can upload one like I said I reaslize what dmusic must move forward on, but in other ways artist must still proceed accordingly as well as far as getting new music heard and keeping previous music avaiable. Once I get smart I will create my own web page to store everything i have on and it won't be an issue.
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:22 PM to me it seems plain rude to post tests on other websites. granted, more space needed for new music etc... fine. but why post that here? maybe its just me.
Cryxan	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:25 PM Agreed with facemachine. Posting the tests is off-topic, not construcive, and is equivalent to sulking.
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:27 PM Where else would you suggest a test be performed for all to see? I don't see it as rude... I see it as a necessity. If you think it was rude, then I sincerely apologize.
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:28 PM The previous postings about finding more free space looks/sounds terrible in the given context. I didn't say you were jumping ship; however, it could easily be inferred as such when reading your posts. I thought i'd make that obvious since you probably weren't thinking about it. Everything you do affects not only the way you are perceived, but the way we as a site are perceived as well. Your comments in threads regarding major DMusic policy change shows how our "supporters" feel about changes. I want you all to be aware that we care very much about what you think of the site and how you use our services, and that we will do everything possible in a given situation to make the site the best it can be for all parties.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:33 PM as as far as testing other services, I have brought a damn numerous amount of other artist too dmusic FROM other services and I promote dmusic to EVERY artist I have come in contact with. I am not getting down on dmusic for their decisions. But I must admit I am being selfish in the sense of "what are my options??" even as a subscriber if I were?? I am just trying to sort where I will be able to upload future projects to come without the disposal of 45 other previous works. I have posted a whole LIST of other sites where other artsit can upload music and self promote on in the past and simple becuase of this issue does not mean we are trying to dis on Dm for discussing other options. As artist it is important to be able to continue to be able to display and offer our music. I love this site and I think my time and efforts and points should at least pull true to that. I am just speaking on MY behalf seeing as I have no uploading options under the new rules. Surely you can't be upset for an artist seeking other means of being able to display future works. I have 5 collabs coming out very very soon... if I can't seek out other means of uploading, what happens to those songs? seeing i have too many on dm and can't upload them? what if my fellow collaborators in those projects have their limits met too? Obviously wh0ring the track to myself is not on my list of things to do, surely you must expect us to find solutions for ourselves here. But let me get this straight... now we can upload an unlimited amount of tracks but only showcase 8 or 20 depending on subscriber or non subscriber? That is helpful and offers somewhat of a solution. ""You can now upload as many tracks as your file storage will allow. " 40 MB upload limit, 8 tracks live limit 100 MB upload limit, 20 tracks live right?? so what happens if I upload a track Flag it "live" (thus having to remove a flag on the other track) meaning I am grandfathered into having X amount of tracks, that I can exchange a track for a "live" flagged track being a previous member of this community before the change correct?
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:40 PM I also think that limiting artists abilities to host looks/sounds terrible in the given context. I do, however, understand the need to have the site pay for itself and perhaps to even make a profit along the way. This entire thread has affected the way DMusic is perceived... don't stop with only the replies... the entire thread leaves an impression upon everyone who reads it. To say any less is an understatement. If you do care (and I'm not saying that you don't), then you can surely understand why this is happening... you may have even anticipated this very scenario.
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:43 PM You start with 30 grandfathered tracks with your membership status allowing only 20 tracks. This means that to make a new track visible on the site, you'll have to hide 11 of those previously grandfathered tracks so that you can set a new track live, thus dropping you down to your membership level limit. There are a lot of users who haven't been posting lots of tracks lately, and the grandfathering is really only helping them. If you have a heavy track turn over, that grandfathering isn't going to do a lot of good if you wish to set new songs visible.
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:44 PM Heh... I haven't brought many, but I have turned a couple of people on to DM.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:51 PM I guess I'm just trying to sort out if I have any options besides hiding 45 tracks... or 32 as a subscriber in order to upload anything new hurgs: If I don't upload anything from this point forward will all 50+ songs still show on my user page?
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:19 PM Bill43, of course these things were anticipated. I didn't think anybody would give any positive words in regards to the changes at all. That was a surprise. However, i expect the majority of our users will search for options outside of DMusic if they haven't already. I also expect that most that go away will eventually come back because the "competition" doesn't seem to have much interest in their artists or the future of media in general. I know this thread, and everything we do, effects our image. That's obvious. However, i wager that most users on here don't realise the effect they have on us. My intent was merely to awaken the sleeping. Many of our users like it here because we treat them well and do what we can to meet their needs, but most users rave more about the community than they do about the staff. As it should be. If the community starts sharing lots of bad vibe related to changes instead of forthright discussion of ideas, this puts the community in jeopardy. Community is a very important thing that's often overlooked even when it's benefits are being thoroughly enjoyed. Ach, here's me ready to go off on a philosophical bent. I'll drop it. Suffice it to say that we care, and i'm doing my best to have everyone here realise that they should care too, and behave accordingly.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 5:59 PM I tell people all the time to come to dm... the other sites I do frequent haven't said a thing to me about posting dmusic promotions at all I just brought another on in last night. Dmusic definitely has it over any sites I have been on. We aren't knocking dm for the decisions made as we are trying to sort the details on who this works and will affect us and how we can still have means of displaying. My case is not typical, and I know I am a slighted # of artist will have the same concerns as mine, so not everyone will have my issue. I understand that, but do you understand I perform about 2-3 collaborations a month within this community?? with fellow artist?? I think my concern is valid and I'm not trying to be rude about it, I'm just trying to sort out my options. I guess I had assumed that subscribers would have had more space than stated, unlimited even, and I just assumed(my fault) that when the time came I would subscribe and carry on. Collaborating with fellow artist here on dmusic is what I DO. period. For obvious reasons this is just creating an issue on how to move forward. yes I can still upload, but seeing as I have a large song page at this point, it just KILLS me to have to remove 45 other songs for ONE exchange. LIke I said my situation is not typical. I just feel like collaborating will be hindered.. not just for me but as for other artist as well.. that I would hate to see.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:04 PM well don't get bent fu dog you do an awesome job and we know you work hard.. we just have a lot to swallow and will be a bit tough to chew.. we'll sort it we are not trying to upset you, sorry to create such turbulance we do appreciate you and the staff here at dmusic, you all do taek great care and concern in our members and this community and although it may not seen as such we are appreciative for all dm has done
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:09 PM I feel the same Jennae. I've only been here a short time... and I'll always be on DM. I even "advertise" DM on a copule of other forums... I've told others how nice it is here and how great the staff is. It was true then and will probably stay true throughout time.
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:28 PM its not that bad folks... come on. on how many other sites would the admins even CONSIDER changing something just because its inconveniences a few users? i think the problem is that we've all been pampered, way over-babied, and now we can't handle any small change. the admins have already said that they're willing to work with the numbers. things have already been changed from this morning. i can't believe that so many people have turned on their flip out machines and are already out there looking for something better than dmusic. not only looking, but posting the "better" stuff in this very forum. so what. you've gotten some people to come to dmusic in the past and now, with one change, you're going to go the complete opposite and tell them there are better options out there?
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:41 PM there is nothing better than dmusic agreed, and it's not that bad.. agreed again. But I do need to sort out options for myself personally if I wish to upload music without the deleting my previous work is all I am saying. these other sites are not better than dmusic. there is no competition there. That is a fact. Admin do work very well with the members here and I can say that for no other site I have come across.
djfacemachine	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:52 PM personally, i think that personal issues should be sorted out in personal time and in personal space. because after all, isn't it a personal problem?
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 6:58 PM indeed it is... enough said.
ChillinBuzz	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 7:00 PM someone pass out the and fcking well it was known it was coming, the numbers initially seem harsh. does this sudden rush to bring the site up to another level have ANYTHING to do with mp3.com going tits up? or should i step further back... do you remember... just because things happen here doesn't mean they're new ideas, right M.......? yeah. im in a "conspiracy theory" mood 2nite
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 7:05 PM well then here have another
fu-dog	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 7:23 PM leflaw's crusading against the RIAA for years and years, then you begin to glimpse where we want DMusic to go. This site is more about individual freedom than music, but you wouldn't know it unless you spoke with us at length, or read some crazy rambling post like this one. That's all i'm saying on the matter here. If you want to hear more you'll need to take me out to a nice dinner that includes red wine and dancing. Note: the dancing is only an option for the craz dancing ladies. :nod: " id="70722">ChillinBuzz, it might have a lot to do with it. However, i have been rushing all sorts of things in the last month and a half or so since we lost two employees and DMusic's future was thrust firmly into my hands. It could also have something to do with the fact that i heard a rumor when i was in the office two weeks ago that said DMusic might not survive another two months if i can't make it at least break even in terms of operating costs. It might also be related to the fact that since mp3.com is about to drop a lot of users that may offer us the viability we need in terms of artists, fans, and finnancial support to mold DMusic to fit our vision of a fair and distributed media future. One thing very few DMers have been clued into is that we're hyper-considerate about the legal ramifications of our actions, and that DMusic is far beyond just a music service. Many of you know we host boycott-RIAA.com and that much of the DMusic news is syndicated there. Sure, it's good for DMusic, but that's the after effect. If you understand the roots of DMusic, and you know a bit about the content of leflaw's crusading against the RIAA for years and years, then you begin to glimpse where we want DMusic to go. This site is more about individual freedom than music, but you wouldn't know it unless you spoke with us at length, or read some crazy rambling post like this one. That's all i'm saying on the matter here. If you want to hear more you'll need to take me out to a nice dinner that includes red wine and dancing. Note: the dancing is only an option for the craz dancing ladies.
Jennae	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 8:20 PM heh you'll be in Baltimore wontcha Fu dog does the jig exits left
YaBoyDrew	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 8:54 PM yea this sucks damn
Bill43	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 9:38 PM DJface... I never said there were any better sites than DM. I was just reporting what I found... period. nothing more... nothing less. Think about it for a minute and I'm sure you can see my side of this.
jmweirick	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 10:04 PM I haven't read this whole thing, and don't intend to. I read about the first third of the thread and all of fu-dogs comments. I was very supprised at how long this kind of change has taken to occure. I had been expecting something of this nature since the first time I came here. I have also noticed the sense of community and the willingness of the staff here to make sacrafices on behalf of what the people want, this is what made me stay here after I found I was a member. I would also like to point out at this point that people have completely ignored the fact that hosting your songs on a server is not the only way to get your music out there. From a web site that hosts gnutella.com it seems strange that P2P has not come up as a relavent possibility. The technology is in place to alow a private network of users for the sole purpose of dmusic distrobution, the strain to the server would be very minimal under a gnutella based system, and with the number of members who have broadband and large dmusic collections alread would make the network well worth the time. I know though that this is not always efficent for getting files, but if you are only allowed 8 active songs, a list of magnet links to the others would be benificial to both the artist and the web site. I realize that this is not an overnight project, but it is something to be considered. If this has already been mentioned and I missed it, then just ignore my post and please point me to what I missed, thank you.
Dizeazed	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 10:05 PM Holy shit... There is NO WAY that I can take the time to read all these posts... It's only been up for a friggin day! "sheesh!" Well... I'll just keep doing my thing until someone lets me know that I'm breaking the rules...
ashleighj	Date: November 24, 2003 @ 10:19 PM it would be nice if it could all be free and unlimited, for everyone, forever.. but if it's not realistic, then it's not, and i can't fault dmusic for putting some limits on the non-subscribers. that said, i think it was a poor idea to impose a limit on subscribers before a tiered system was ready to go. i'd like to believe that would have caused far less complaining and far more interest in supporting dmusic by choosing the plan that's best for each user while still being affordable to most. i would kindly suggest that the accounts of those who subscribed prior to today have their accounts released from the limits until the tier system is ready to go. just as a "thank you" for their support before their feet were held to the fire, so to speak. but i'm not a subscriber, so what do i know.
ChillinBuzz	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 1:28 AM well i am a subscriber.... .... but i left mp3.com to come here, i just dont know what to do right now... and as any comments i make are going to be largely missed, i dont see any point in venting either.
Dizeazed	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 1:41 AM So... say we're a hip hop artist and we make tracks with vocals and instrumentals.... Can we have a seperate page for each... or is that not allowed?
ChillinBuzz	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 2:22 AM multiple accounts here on in aren't allowed dude... i think this one's gonna take a while to clear... we can hang tough, chill out or fly away...
pmscpc	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 3:25 AM I am amazed that ANYONE allows free hosting of music anymore. I just don't know how it can be afforded. I know I'm not going to make myself popular here, but even if DM limited us to four tracks, I would still use it - because the best things about DM in my opinion are the interactive features. The shoutboxes and the almost endless ability to make comments in different places are the things that keep me here once I arrive. I actually PAY MONEY for the Ampcast.com service and I'm hardly ever there - sure I check once a day or so to see if anyone has commented on or rated a song, but they don't, so I don't hang around, I come back here to see who's doing what, and spend more time than I planned because I get drawn in by who's online etc. dmusic actually looks ALIVE and kicking. However, if [FuDog] you're saying dmusic may only have 2 months left, I'm not going to subscribe, am I ? On the other hand, if dmusic is still going and I still like the look of it, then I'm most certainly going to transfer my subscription here using the dmusic hosting service early next year.
fu-dog	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 8:48 AM Notice: Not a single subscribing user has commented on this to me in a very negative fashion yet, and asked if changes could be made. In light of the fact that this was thrust on our handfull of subscribers, we are completely willing to work with them until they believe the fees they are paying is fair. In fact, forget that at it stands. All subscribing accounts have been adjusted heavily. If the subscribers still have an issue, come to me and we'll talk. Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta... i mean, uh, admin. This leads me to my next little topic... the last two months of DMusic, or lack thereof. pmscpc, i'm not stating DMusic has only two months left. I'm mentioned a vicious rumor that i heard to quell ChillinBuzz's fears of DMusic/mp3.com conspiracy. If, however, we did have a shortened lifespan based on taking in money, then your willingness to gamble on the generosity/desire of others shows how little you choose to support the community in an obvious time of crisis. Some things offered here were done so for the intellectual tumult that would be caused. Other things are true. You folks can sort them in order of importance and act accordingly. How much do you really care for that which is DMusic? (This is a hypothetical question aimed at self reflection... no need for answers.) ChillinBuzz, i won't be missing your comments if you choose to make them. In fact, if there's things you want to talk about but don't want them buried here, then note me mang! We'll work out whatever we can. " id="70817">Actually, jmweirick, i was discussing the idea of putting up a kazaa/morpheous/fasttrack node of consenting DMusic artists. However, that will eat up a fair bit of bandwidth because for quite some time we will be the only node on the network. Plus, this by-passes the community and anything else the artists may be looking to share with their fans. While it serves on purpose fantastically, it lets several other important things slide. The idea is still on the table, however. ashleighj, the infrastructure for the tier system is already in place, but we really cannot impose hard limits on anyone without community testing. Hence the release in the fashion as it occurred. In any case, you're examing the past and while it might have been nice one way, it was done another. Let's work with where we are. Down the line when we're not in such a rough position, we will be "testing" amongst certain users longer before we roll out major service changes. Notice: Not a single subscribing user has commented on this to me in a very negative fashion yet, and asked if changes could be made. In light of the fact that this was thrust on our handfull of subscribers, we are completely willing to work with them until they believe the fees they are paying is fair. In fact, forget that at it stands. All subscribing accounts have been adjusted heavily. If the subscribers still have an issue, come to me and we'll talk. Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta... i mean, uh, admin. This leads me to my next little topic... the last two months of DMusic, or lack thereof. pmscpc, i'm not stating DMusic has only two months left. I'm mentioned a vicious rumor that i heard to quell ChillinBuzz's fears of DMusic/mp3.com conspiracy. If, however, we did have a shortened lifespan based on taking in money, then your willingness to gamble on the generosity/desire of others shows how little you choose to support the community in an obvious time of crisis. Some things offered here were done so for the intellectual tumult that would be caused. Other things are true. You folks can sort them in order of importance and act accordingly. How much do you really care for that which is DMusic? (This is a hypothetical question aimed at self reflection... no need for answers.) ChillinBuzz, i won't be missing your comments if you choose to make them. In fact, if there's things you want to talk about but don't want them buried here, then note me mang! We'll work out whatever we can.
woodhead	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 9:45 AM I am a subscriber also, and to tell the truth a lot of the free services only offer three tunes for upload. and to have ten for free, well that is a complete CD, and to have twenty for a small fee well that is a CD plus some other stuff such as collabs. Twenty songs is a lot of material, and if subscribers get 40 songs whoa that is a lot, that is around 4 hours of music. But for me if We get done with a new CD or a bunch of new tunes seems like those are the ones to promote, and older stuff gets one or two best tunes from a cd. The best thing about Dmusic is the community, and this is why I come back day after day, yea to listen to music but to also say hey to my buddies, and to read what others thoughts are in music and I even learn stuff on a daily basis. Just my opinons.
victorsskull	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:32 AM I am lucky to still have the internet but cant afford the money to be a member so why should I be happy about the changes like I said before oh well
GeneHilbert	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:40 AM I'm a subscriber here also...... not everyone is going to be satisfied. Everybody wants something for nothing. Well here at dmusic you have that. I also think testing other sites in this thread is in bad taste. I think what Fu-dog is doing is needed and has been needed for sometime. I hear a lot of good music here - I have also heard a lot of shit. Incomplete songs and undeveloped ideas that serve no purpose other than just take up server space. Give the guy a break...... sounds to me like he has his shit together. If you really want to help this site SUBSCRIBE..... or at the very least be supportive and constructive. There’s my
djfacemachine	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:43 AM "DJface... I never said there were any better sites than DM. I was just reporting what I found... period. nothing more... nothing less. Think about it for a minute and I'm sure you can see my side of this." -Bill43 yeah, i get your side. boy do i ever. and my opinion? your whiney, baby-ish, running-away-ness both sucks and blows at the same time. i don't CARE what everyone else thinks or how many people you believe are on your "side". there is never going to be a time when someone can say: "Think about it for a minute and I'm sure you can see my side of this", without sounding like a know-it-all. my advice? next time you want to say or do something that MAY be interpreted in a way other than you intended, stay in bed where you are safe.
victorsskull	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:46 AM this is the best site but Im still pissed
djfacemachine	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:56 AM its ok to be pissed, just try to use it to be constructive. everything's gonna work out.
victorsskull	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 10:59 AM
djfacemachine	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 11:00 AM ow, my body
furiousBall	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 11:09 AM i know this has been discussed, is deep linking allowed for subscribers? in fact, how about a page describing all the subscriber benefits (i know there's one if you click on subscribe, but it's not up to date with everything that is being discussed here)
leflaw	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 12:03 PM We have temporarily instituted a policy of giving Victorsskull a temporary lifetime unlimited account, on a temporary trial basis. Temporarily. As long as he stops shooting.
leflaw	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 12:04 PM I just did this to piss him off , since he deleted a few tracks.
Lcrowley	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 12:06 PM Boy, by looking at all this I can definately see the up and down side to giving the community a voice in direction .... What a thankless job fu-dog has.... I understand where Jen and Bill are coming from ... I think what I see from looking outside in .. is that you guys may have chosen an inappropriate place to discuss this ... I mean people who come to the forums for the first time will see this thread and come to it for information .. and it might not look very goodd to new eyes .... so, I don't think fu-dog was chatizing you guys for talking about these things .. I simply think he was saying yikes guys .. maybe this isn't the best place to talk about that stuff .... As artists we hate changes that affect our status, I am one too .. and when you have been a part of something that you love for along time and then all of the sudden it is pulled out ... it makes you feel less important .. but, what you guys need to look at is that DMusic is a business, and as a business, although they would love to keep it the way it is for all of us, they have to find revenue to run the business from somewhere ... and although, I do disagree to an extent in charging the artists (content) for this revenue, I certainly understand it. So, My suggestion to everyone is this, instead of complaining about these costs, go out and find a solution ... if someone can come up with a way for fu-dog and the rest of the site owners and operators to make a revenue, then they will not have to charge the artists for their content ... But, until that revenue source is found, this is how it has to be guys... BTW, I cannot afford to subscribe at the moment, but I do plan to as soon as I can afford to do so .. I happen to think this is a wonderful site and a fantastic community of brilliant artists and I want to help make sure that it stays that way ... Lana
victorsskull	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 1:07 PM ya know leflaw I wouldnt dought that one bit you evil dmusic owner person you seriously I guess I can deal with this I am still a dmusic junky and always will be
Bill43	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 2:17 PM "yeah, i get your side. boy do i ever. and my opinion? your whiney, baby-ish, running-away-ness both sucks and blows at the same time. i don't CARE what everyone else thinks or how many people you believe are on your "side". there is never going to be a time when someone can say: "Think about it for a minute and I'm sure you can see my side of this", without sounding like a know-it-all. my advice? next time you want to say or do something that MAY be interpreted in a way other than you intended, stay in bed where you are safe." ~DJface~ Look DJ.... Your opinion is yours. Mine is mine. I didn't whine and I'm not hiding... nor am I kissing anybody's ass. You may feel the need to kiss ass.. I don't. I hate this shit. I did what I did because I felt it was the right thing to do. Get over it and get on with your life. Attacking me on a personal level is not solving anything. To everyone who feels that what I did was in "poor taste" or whatever... so what. Read everything I've already posted. I even went as far to apologize if anyone thought it was rude. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Damn.
Bill43	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 2:20 PM To explain further... I wasn't trying to be rude... that is what I meant when I stated "Nothing could be farther from the truth".
BlackMage	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 3:03 PM Wow, I'm counting that I will run outta space in one year if it continues like this. Glad I don't get too many song ideas per month...
furiousBall	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 3:05 PM bill, you're good people - I'll vouch for you.
djfacemachine	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 3:19 PM Bill43- eat me
milladrive	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:04 PM Now, Bill, _there's_ a proposition ya may wanna think about.
djfacemachine	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:05 PM no milla, he said he already looked at my pictures and the deal's off. yaarrr... i'm... unattractive
Maffmatix	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:29 PM Get off my cool aid.
Bill43	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:35 PM Nope... I try to be nice to the ladies.
Bill43	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:42 PM But as far as the proposition goes??? How old is she?
milladrive	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:48 PM Over 18. ...and personally, I can't think of a better way to be nice to a lady. heh ..and to honor such a terrific request would be like two birds with one stone. ..or is it a bird in the hand. ..Well, whatever.
Bill43	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 4:53 PM Okay... I've got the gutter thoughts cooking now... better stop before I...
Veracohr	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 5:43 PM I'll pop in here just to give another subscriber's opinion on the subject. I subscribed partly to get rid of the ads and partly to help out DMusic. 20 tracks/100 MB sounds dandy to me. But then again I don't have tons of tracks. At any rate, I'm perfectly fine with it. My general opinion is: whatever is decided among the admins and implemented, I deal with. Maybe if I'd been here since the beginning, I would feel differently, but I just don't feel entitled to anything. I think my $4 per month are being validated with what I get, even after the changes. Stop the mudslinging though, fellas.
JFF	Date: November 25, 2003 @ 6:30 PM It was nice while it lasted,but it could not have lasted forever .. $4 a month sounds pretty good to me... ..but why the track limit? to be fair quite a few of the tracks I have uploaded I wouldn't have if paying for em, so that's good 'cause it gets rid of some of the of your servers , but can't we just have a MB limit? or is the the 20/100 so that people still upload in a decent bitrate? PS: I have had many many so if ^ does not make sense, it's not my fault. PPS: After the week i've had at work with servers, I understand a 1/100th of what Fu-Dog must be doing, so every respect to him, it's coming along nicely..
Psipher	Date: November 26, 2003 @ 8:59 AM would it be possible to have the option of having songs stored on members own web space but still played from dmusic? that way i could put my own personal web space to use! just wondering if it would work with the number of plays etc.... obviously there may be problems with the speed/bandwidth of other ppl's servers when it comes to streaming etc but that would be up to them! at least this way you could save on dm server space and resources? not that i have a problem with the monthly subscription, cant expect anything for nothing, especially the use of servers to store music for others to hear!
pixelmasochist	Date: November 26, 2003 @ 10:22 AM Psipher: That sounds like a pretty nice idea, it's something that was floating around my brain too (glad I actually read the posts made before I did something dumb too). Personaly I feel the current state of affairs will present problems to some of the hardcore dmusicophites, but for me it's cool I just deleted a few tracks to make space myself, it's no biggie as they were all from my old band and probably could do better to rot away in the background anyway I do have a friend who I write (music) with and I am pressing him to set up an account here. We would also like a band account so we could have our own stuff and our together stuff hosted (like mux/spiralmux/vandaman) is this going to present problems? I have also been practiing my guitar playing and have come up with something that's acceptable to me as music But it's alternative in style and my main output is electronic. (the bit where I tie the post together and try to make sense) To achive all of this I would need to create 3 accounts. I also know that I am not one of the more popular artists here, there are heaps of people who do comminicate with others and are alot more interactive than I am, to me it would seem rude to create 3 accounts for my own stuff when that space could be used by someone more deserving... Well that's it, I have just lost the plot I have a cold and I feel like death on a stick! I was going somewhere with this but I have forgotten where now. Decided to post anyway, just in case there's someone on this site who understands what I'm rambling about and can forge something resembling sense out of this. P.S. fu-dog: I do not envy your possition here at all, but I thank you for taking the time, patience and effort in doing what you are doing! Thank you! (that goes for the rest of the DM Cru too)

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