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YOU be the Judge...is this bulls#%t or ?

MikeSmith	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 10:01 AM Dixie So, I'm bored late last night and looking to get a little roots on, head over to the bluegrass section and stream "Dixie" by Boots & PHANTOM. Well...let me tell you what. This guy actually went and uploaded what sounds like the demo from a cheap casio keyboard. No joke. I'm sorry, but that's offensive to me. Uploading a synthetic bluegrass song is just not right. I'm from NC, and have played in bluegrass bands and know without a doubt that any one of those players would be put off to no end hearing that song. To boot (no pun intended), this cat Boots2004 tells me it's not so, and then gets wily with his comments. AND then he moseys on over to my page to leave some retaliatory hateful comments (which I find hilarious) on our song. SO...YOU decide. Is this song a cheap synthesized tune or did he actually play a guitar and the other instruments on it? Oh, and Boots2004...why isn't that song licensed, buddy? OOps...let me guess...because you didn't actually WRITE or PLAY it maybe?
boots2004	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 10:16 AM seems like you might have gotten bored while recording your track also if your bored why dont you take your money-headphones and make a decent track i bet you didnt get much work playing blue grass and if you want to have a battle of wits i suggest you go find some i hate to fight an unarmed man you might try to get a real name also smith?? hahhah
boots2004	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 10:45 AM if you have played bluegrass you would know i didnt write dixie. sure you wern't playing grabass instead of bluegrass
boots2004	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 10:59 AM if you dont like the song dont play it duhhhhhhh
boots2004	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 1:00 PM by the way i got bored while checkin out your site
johnnygnote	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 1:05 PM Why don't you guys chill out a bit and go listen to my friend's tunes I think you will both agree with each other he's a good writer http://dmilgram.dmusic.com/
Jesuszilla	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 1:14 PM Listen to the Mike Hock song in bluesgrass, it is true, no poser crap. Death to false bluesgrass! No faggot synth crap in that, fukken synths. sirmikehock.dmusic.com
HandClapOrch...	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 3:49 PM Death to false JesusHockMikeZilla, I don't fired his ass!!!! If Boots and Phantos like to play a bluegrass with a fuckin' comb-over and a sack of jabberwee then that is ok for all to every, because you can not hear if you just don't hit the thing to says "play it song," or whateVER!!! MikeJesus though is not listening go listen better to our songs it is way better now mike hick hock was fired with my firing lawyer go to: handclaporchestra.dmusic.com instead of his stupid
MickeyBreezy	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 4:04 PM OMFG!!!! what r u sayin HCO, i can never understand ur ass.
boots2004	Date: September 12, 2004 @ 5:17 PM i think i agree with you HCO hahaha
boots2004	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 2:56 AM was sirmikehock knighted by the queen another producer of nothing?
leflaw	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 7:25 AM I play country reggae fiddle.
HandClapOrch...	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 7:34 AM I know you call HCO because that is my letter! But it's just the band it's not all just me. Sirmikehock was only "sir" because he thought he better than every. He is not though so he should only be call DumbMikeHock maybe!
imemine	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 9:55 AM I like chocolate pudding!
leflaw	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 1:56 PM ElectronicHandClapOrch... Huh?
RosLen	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 2:02 PM
MikeSmith	Date: September 17, 2004 @ 8:58 PM Ok...so the whole point of my post wasn't to point out that you can hit the play button or not.. It wasn't to determine who can speak english properly or not. It WAS to determine if this guy Boots2004 uploaded a song that, I believe, is a demo song from some cheap keyboard/synth. I really just wanted some opinions on THAT (and only that). If anyone would actually care to comment on THAT, feel free. Otherwise, thanks for sharing, keep coming back, check out is at 11.
hueseph	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 2:11 PM All I can say is that electronica is for people who have no musical ability whatsoever. It is the creation of geeks for geeks. There is no soul in cut and paste. There is no heart in an arpeggiator. Does an electronic artist even know how to comprise an arpeggio? Boots2004 did you actually physically play that? Can you perform that live on a real piano? if the answer is yes then bravo. Go get yourself a real piano. The frustration for people who actually play their instruments and practice hard to get their performance perfect is understandable. I practice hard and it can be painfull. Nailing accuracy is a hard earned skill. There are millions of poor musicians out there that don't need a computer or keyboard or any electricity to practice their art. And then there are others that don't know the difference between a quarter note and a bank note and who couldn't write a song without a sequencer and a step editor. Not to mention loops that other people made and clips of songs that other people already wrote. There are already several programs that "write" "music" based on user input. will you pay to listen to that?
boots2004	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 5:58 PM to create something listenable and pleasing is the endeavour of a musician the means wether it be a banjo tuned like a guitar or played on a keyboard. according to mike smith if you use electric guitars, distortion,reverb, drum machine or even a microphone,anything that enhances the music is a violation of his high standards,but alas he is like all the high and mighty, and judgers of others he violates his own so called high standards usinghis standards only a lute or a lyre played outdoors is true music thankfully there are many creative ways for a musician to enhance their music, he ought to try it it is comforting to know mike smith is here to protect us less then mighty musicians from the corruption of boots2004 mom apple pie cheverolet and the american way can rest well mike smith is on guard
boots2004	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 6:08 PM to houseph would i pay for that? i didnt know we had to pay for music on dmusic. an no i cant play dixie on a piano thats why i played it on a banjo tuned like a guitar
hueseph	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 8:21 PM Don't lie boots2004 that doesn't sound anywhere near a real banjo. How do I know. Well maybe it's because I've heard a real banjo. However the loops on my tracks are simply because I don't have a drummer of my own. And I don't happen to claim to be a drummer of any sorts. However I can perform all of the parts I play live on an acoustic guitar. If I had someone to play the parts with me It might even sound convincing enough without drums. Bottom line is I play what I write equally well without electricity. Your "Dixie" is entirely sequenced. There's no banjo there, tuned like a guitar or not. I listened to your other stuff and apparently you do play actual instruments but this is a poor example. It sounds like the demo on a Casio Keyboard.
MikeSmith	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 8:51 PM Thank you, hueseph. Boots2004 - Did I say using electric guitars, distortion, reverb, drum machine, or microphone, anything that enhances the music is a violation of my high standards? Please, find for me where I said that. You won't, because...I didn't. Anywhere. I like your style, Boots2004...all smoke with no fire. The point is, again, your version of Dixie is nothing more than a Casio Demo. You didn't play, nor transpose that tune whatsoever. THAT is my issue and NOTHING more. You uploaded a song that not only did you not play, you didn't even have ANYTHING to do with whatsoever. That, my good man, is offensive. Please, by all means continue to attempt to cloud the point here with your comments. It only makes you look more the fool than you already do.
kingo	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 10:02 PM MikeSmith: If you're offended because someone here is (in your opinion) mislabelling their music then you need to lighten the hell up. hueseph: you've blurted out such a huge load of garbage that I've only got to assume you're joking. Being a musician isn't a competition; it's not about who can play what instrument. It's about making music, and it doesn't matter what tools you use. What matters is what comes out. If you don't like music because it's made up of loops, that just means you don't like it. It doesn't mean it doesn't have soul. Unless, of course, you actually have the definitive answer to the question of what constitutes soul. Cuz if you've got that then you should probably be spelling it out so everyone else can stop asking the question.
MikeSmith	Date: September 18, 2004 @ 10:17 PM Halaka, Nice to meet you, too! Now, You don't know me, biatch. So step off. Ok, we can be friends now. Uploading material that isn't yours is cool with you? Last I checked, that was a do not pass go do not collect $200 gtfo and go straight to jail card. I don't think he's "mislabeling" his music, as in putting it in the wrong genre, or anything like that... I think he's misrepresenting. I think he's uploaded something that he didn't have anything to do with whatsoever, beyond ripping it off of a cheap keyboard. So yes, I am offended by that. Offended because I don't believe it's cool to upload a song, claim it as yours and then hold to that when it's obviously, and quite simply, not true.
hueseph	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 2:28 AM halaka: are we getting into definitions of words now? You know what I'm saying. Do I have to define art? Obviously there are going to be people that think that clicking buttons on a m ouse and dragging and dropping files is musical. There are also people that will pay for paint splatterings on canvass. Do you feel that that compares with what Da Vinci did? I don't know maybe I'm biased but I'll take an acoutic guitar over a Pentium any day. It's popular to say "keep it real" well actually playing an instrument is as real as it gets. And by the way I use loops but only to make up for the drummer I don't have. If I had a set of drums I'd do it live. I just can't fathom paying to see someone press play on a computer or drop a needle on a record. Just my opinion. Deal with it.
boots2004	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 3:23 AM dixie is here deal with it mike smith you seem to know alot about casios wonder hwere you got such a vast knowledge HMMMMMMMMMM also fuck you and your garbage
hueseph	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 5:09 AM Whatever. Anyone for Starbucks?
kingo	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 8:27 PM hueseph: My problem is that you're stating your opinion as if it's fact. And it's not. You're pigeon-holing a whole shitload of artists by saying that using a computer as an instrument is somehow less "real" than "actually playing an instrument." That's bullshit. Yes, you ARE biased. I have no problem with you saying you like acoustic music over electronic; but when you start categorically rejecting massive amounts of music because of the way it was made you're just being ridiculous. MikeSmith: Good morning, afternoon, and half-past the neckhole. Hope you're having a nub. If boots uploaded a casio keyboard out-of-the-box loop, and only that, as a track here, then that's his business. Maybe it's a joke. Maybe he's schizophrenic. Maybe he works for Casio. My point, my opinion, is that you're taking whatever he's done way too seriously. You got an axe to grind? If his track sounds like you're saying it sounds then who the hell's he hurting?
Woof	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 8:32 PM Well, for all of the (ahem)... discussion... that's gone on in this thread, there's been at least one glaring result: "Dixie" is now the most-played bluegrass song on the whole of DMusic... perhaps as a result of the attention it's gotten here. I'm not kidding... check the bluegrass stats... A little ironic, if you ask me...
spiralmux	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 8:42 PM like it. A lot. I think it's the shit. Music is a matter of taste. It always has been, and it always will be. I have nothing but respect for people who play real instruments. But I can see the art in other forms of music as well. Things are possible in electronic music that you just can't do any other way. Just because it's not all played live, does that mean it has less value? Obviously, you think so, but many of us disagree." id="112850">I also take exception with the idea that electronic music is not "real" music, that's it's just for lazy bums who don't know shit about music. Listen, pal, I'm classically trained. I played the violin for 10 years solid (still do sometimes). Try telling me I don't know shit about music. Yeah, right. The fact of the matter is, my focus has shifted to electronic music. Get this. I like it. A lot. I think it's the shit. Music is a matter of taste. It always has been, and it always will be. I have nothing but respect for people who play real instruments. But I can see the art in other forms of music as well. Things are possible in electronic music that you just can't do any other way. Just because it's not all played live, does that mean it has less value? Obviously, you think so, but many of us disagree.
DevonPowell	Date: September 19, 2004 @ 8:55 PM Yes, Woof, isn't it tho! I did tell Boots he didn't even have ot thank me for all the listens he'll be getting from this Halaka: There are rules here, are there not, for uploading music? I believe this breaks them. When I left comments on the song, Boots responded with immaturity and a surprising amount of unnecessary, ill-intent-driven emotion. If he hadn't responded at all, I would never have looked to other people to validate my notion that his "Dixie" is obviously not his work. However, he proceeded (and continues) to attack me verbally and so on and so forth... Does what he uploaded "hurt" me? Does killing thousands of people in afghanistan or Iraq "hurt" me? Does someone abusing their child or spouse "hurt" me? You can answer that any way you want. The bottom line is, this person is, in my opinion, breaking the rules of the site. I wanted to get other people's opinion on it, or perhaps draw the attention of the site admins, and then deal with it accordingly. As far as my personal feelings about it...I think I've made myself pretty clear already.
hueseph	Date: September 20, 2004 @ 12:44 AM Spiralmux, halaka: with all sincerity my appologies. I know there are people who work hard on their digital music. I know people who work hard on digital music. At the same time I still cannot appreciate it as much as something that is wholly personal expression. You cannot freely improvise with electronic in the same way that you can with a real instrument. That's just my opinion. For the record as much as Boots2004 may have broken the rules, I would hate to take away from him what he has. Maybe he sells a lot of cd's. I bet everyone in his home town has a copy and everyone out of town that he knows. I think it's a bit of a futile arguement. I'd just as soon ignore him than have to discuss why he shouldn't be doing what he does. No sweat off my back.
boots2004	Date: September 20, 2004 @ 4:05 AM wow now this goes from blue grass to killing children wow i thought this was a pretty nice place til now seems it is not about music anymore just opinionated assholes who use the old tatic if you dont have talent attack those who do
boots2004	Date: September 20, 2004 @ 4:08 AM i'm thankful my cheap casio also uploads lyrics as well something i see lacking in some
kingo	Date: September 20, 2004 @ 10:32 AM Devon: I have no idea if uploading a keyboard's auto-played song is against policy here. I don't think that's a copyright issue; that song itself, to the best of my knowledge, isn't copywritten. Whether or not manufacturers of toy keyboards copyright or otherwise protect their demo songs I don't know. I imagine that's for the admins to deal with. And if the guy's being an ass to you, then that's probably also an issue for the admins. My issue is still the same, though: I honestly can't figure out how that song's being available is hurting you or anyone else. Comparing it to war deaths doesn't really make much sense to me. When people do shit like this (and I'd be lying if I said I didn't know this first-hand) it can quite frequently be just to see what peoples' reactions to it are. There's a whole lot of reaction here that surprises even me; and therefore I assume this guy's got no reason to stop doing what he's doing. Either it's a violation of site policy and the admins can deal with it, or he'll just keep on doing it and having a blast because it's for some reason getting such a rise outta everyone. Shit, as has been said, it's gotten that song more plays than it ever woulda got otherwise. It took me until this morning to finally give it (half of) a listen. I certainly wouldn't have listened without all this bile being thrown at it. In other words, ignore him and he'll go away. Eventually. Maybe. Hueseph: improvising electronically with loops is definitely a different thing than improvising with acoustic or electric instruments. But it's do-able. I'm not trying to argue, i'm trying to point out that I really think you'd be well served by listening to some well-done, thought provoking electronic music. Listen to anything at http://spiral.dmusic.com/ if you haven't already, and stuff at http://cageyhouse.dmusic.com/ There's very heartfelt work being done and I think if you give it more of a chance maybe you'll dig it. Anyway, apology accepted-- even though I'm not really an electronic artist and in no real position to take personal offense. I experiment with the stuff and, trust me, it's not easy AT ALL to do well. The people here that I mentioned, as well as others, absolutely astound me. We need to have a beer. Everyone.
MCCUBED	Date: September 20, 2004 @ 11:16 PM WELL I JUST MOVED TO THE COUNTRY PART OF SAN DIEGO COUNTY AND I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT BLUEGRASS REALLY IS. PEOPLE SEEM TO BE INTO RAP AND ALTERNATIVE BUT THE OLD FOLK LISTEN TO COUNTRY. I AM PROUD THAT I INSPIRED BOOTS TO WRITE THAT BUSH SONG.
kyodylee	Date: September 21, 2004 @ 12:26 AM @ everyone!
HandClapOrch...	Date: September 21, 2004 @ 2:37 PM HUGESTEPS YOU ARE WRONG YOU DON'T THINK THAT IT IS SOME SOUL TO BE IN THE HAD THE LOOPING. We do all of our lyrics in a live, and our music is all 100%, and YOU DON'T COME HERE WITH THAT AND THIS AND HERE IS THE STUP IS WHAT WAS TO SEE THIS? THIS IS THE REAL ONLY MUSIC We are what's real and here to feel!
MCCUBED	Date: September 21, 2004 @ 11:49 PM HMM THAT DIDN'T WORK DID IT
imemine	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 12:34 AM My Bologna has a First Name * Holds finger horizontally in front of mouth moving it up and down repeatedly making a bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb sound while hopping around the room pecking like a :Llamachicken: .* Ohhh, the haNd claPping pigEon OrcHesTra---I just loVe those gUys!!!!
kyodylee	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 1:18 AM OMFG .... :lmoa: "hopping around the room pecking like a :Llamachicken:" I am just picturing this in my mind ....
spiralmux	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 1:55 AM See my webcam.
Jesuszilla	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 7:35 PM FOOTBALL Blackburn crash out to Bournemouth Bournemouth knock Blackburn out of the Carling Cup on penalties after an epic 3-3 draw at Ewood Park.
imemine	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 9:04 PM Woooooo Hoooooooooo!!!!! I just love football!
imemine	Date: September 22, 2004 @ 11:19 PM Man, those Red Wings sure did clean up in the World Series Ay!
Jennae	Date: September 25, 2004 @ 6:43 PM
TameasDust	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 2:23 AM I wonder if they ever did decide ???
GeneHilbert	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 2:29 AM Nobody knows - da trouble I seen....... or cares I do imagine.....
EtherEclectic	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 4:11 PM All I can say is that electronica is for people who have no musical ability whatsoever. It is the creation of geeks for geeks. There is no soul in cut and paste. There is no heart in an arpeggiator. Does an electronic artist even know how to comprise an arpeggio? heuseph that is a very ignorant thing to say, i use alot of electronica in my music, hell alot of mainstreem electronica artists usually are piano players and guitar players. so does that mean that we are all talentless geeks? whats so incredibly great about your music?
shadowself	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 4:17 PM Man, this thread is old. But I'll still say it - I'm not gonna listen to either of those bitches.
Fraser	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 4:18 PM Oh the irony.
litesenseative	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 5:08 PM Haha bin listening to this cheery casio demo all the way through some of this heated argument quite funny how the music makes it all seem sooooooooooooo stupid,
litesenseative	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 5:09 PM Oh my god how do i stop this shit wheres the stop button arghhhh!!
Distilled1	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 9:27 PM Now I have to hear this Damn I missed this thread
Distilled1	Date: December 5, 2005 @ 9:35 PM hakehead:
desiderata	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 1:04 AM We don't have any more pickles. Not that I expect you to do anything about it. I'm just saying. And I fucking love you all. Except that one guy who was being an ass. And that other guy. Yeah. Except them.
woodhead	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 1:58 AM the full moon has risen again
sinai	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 3:13 AM i think thats the greatest song i've ever heard
Psipher	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 7:21 AM haha, well... this forum was nearly as amusing as the ring of fire song on boots page, i cant believe what some people will argue about, does amuse me! i might be offended at the comment about electronic music being for geeks, lucky i play proper instruments over the top of my geeky electronic! haha. it may sound like a casio demo but it could actually be a banjo, i think its just the organ that makes it sound like a casio demo... if you listen closely there are a few very minor mistakes, didnt know casio keyboards had these? lol
BlackMage	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 7:24 AM Casio keyboards are a mistake.
GreatGooglyM...	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 8:29 AM Yeah, if they produce sounds like that. If you're faking your tunes, then I suggest buying some higher quality synth.
kingo	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 8:53 AM I am always faking my tunes.
Distilled1	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 8:54 AM I think its the bad organ too, Cause my sons cheep casio sounds much better
EtherEclectic	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 1:37 PM i remember when i had a casio around the age of seven! man i thought those demos were the top of the line produced music! i always digged the bossa nova sample lol
Distilled1	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 3:29 PM oh I had one of those with the bossa nove it was a mini (tiny) thing about 16" but it sure was fun!
hate9wicket	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 9:50 PM It is a cheap casio, he just occasionally hits the toggle stick to bend the notes a little. I still have a Kawai and play the demo just to get a little laugh.
TameasDust	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 11:34 PM actually I prefer electronic music ... it has more live and more soul than most other music ... and tons better than some person twanging away or generally mutilating some instrument that never did anything to them while thinking about what they are going to get for groceries ... ... It would be nice if musicians would think about what they are playing/singing/creating WHILE they are doing it ... not thinking about that person over there stripping ...
BOWILLIE	Date: December 6, 2005 @ 11:53 PM
hate9wicket	Date: December 7, 2005 @ 12:13 AM Mental note: Delete that song I recorded while flipping between the Food Network and Showgirls on mute.
EtherEclectic	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 3:21 AM food network rocks! i spend alot of time on saturdays on foodnetwork cause the majority of the channel line ups are crap! on sat and sun...watch people make really artistic cakes in 4hours, or watch how jelly beans are made! all this while ignoring my wife once again by picking up my guitar
hate9wicket	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 10:44 AM I try to, but always miss, Good Eats, hosted by Alton Brown, who, incidently, used to direct R.E.M.'s music videos.
GeneHilbert	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 11:32 AM Point Whore post only
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 4:45 PM well that buggers me up then, virtually all my music here (barring the guitar ideas) are written on a PC, therefore all i had to do was press play after finishing it and... im gonna retire before i cry
hate9wicket	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 9:15 PM Is it wrong to say when I see ChillinBuzz's name, I can't get doo-wop and BBQ ribs out of my head? Back on topic, I sense some sarcasm, I hope? Mr. Buzz and have to say that, sequenceing is an entirely different animal than what Mr. Boots was guilty of. As Hueseph demonstrated above, if you use pre-recorded drum loops, you are not cheating, you are using any means to deliver your art. Does a painter go out and harvest plants to extract their essence to produce the hues necessary to create their art? NO! Does using notational software mean you are not a musician? NO! Uploading a midi demo off a keyboard and calling it a banjo in standard guitar tuning cheating? Fuck YEAH!
kingo	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 9:49 PM No, because there's nothing to cheat. Goddammit why'd i come back in here.
hate9wicket	Date: December 8, 2005 @ 10:07 PM Screw you guys, I'm going home.
sinai	Date: December 9, 2005 @ 5:13 AM now about those farm animals...
TameasDust	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 4:14 AM have you figured out how to tune a goat ??
litesenseative	Date: February 14, 2006 @ 7:30 AM To tune or not to tune, that could be a qs for the future i like the twist of introducing a goat into the storyline to...
sinai	Date: February 14, 2006 @ 8:33 AM i, for the life of me, fucking hate sculpture
popdem	Date: February 20, 2006 @ 5:23 PM hold still sinai... my sculpture of your hate for sculpture is nearly finished!..
mawd	Date: February 22, 2006 @ 12:35 AM sounds good to me MAWD
DeadraveN	Date: March 22, 2006 @ 1:28 PM this thread is just damn funny. it's my happy thought. When I'm feeling down, I just read this thread and everything's okay...
jhboob	Date: April 7, 2006 @ 10:32 AM ..i like playing with my organ...
TameasDust	Date: April 26, 2006 @ 11:55 AM http://www.organsociety.org/
OneofFour	Date: May 3, 2006 @ 5:49 PM the greatest point of this thread is that the MIDI dixie tune at the top is a perfect soundtrack as one reads through it.
Woof	Date: May 3, 2006 @ 10:16 PM IMO, it's all good fun and entertainment anyway... still in all, it would be an interesting complement to these comments if someone were do do an acappella version of the song by pasting the lyrics into one of those text-to-speech programs...

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