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Artists that stream their own songs need to be capped

Svensta	Date: July 17, 2002 @ 8:46 AM Well, I think the server bandwidth is not really in jeopardy. But I agree, this shameless self-promoting just to falsify song standing is kinda lame. When I see someone doing it horribly in 'recent interactions' I pop to their user page, rate them a one, and leave an insult in their shoutbox. Never got a reply. Maybe they are just creating empty users just to stream it from what appears to be a different person and not themselves. I don't know exactly how you can stop this, except for perhaps putting a time minimum between consecutive downloads. It's tricky.
Svensta	Date: July 21, 2002 @ 7:00 PM I'm for it! They are prolly busy doing.... stuff
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 21, 2002 @ 7:46 PM I know they change users and play their tunes, one person (nameless for now and not me ) was dumb enough to make his alias a band member of the same group. I mean, that's dumb. IP address logging could work temporarily but you could also go for a specially encrypted file residing in secret on the drive or similar for each user. Suppose that breaches privacy laws tho' (like Real Media)
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 21, 2002 @ 7:49 PM And you're right about the hip-hop artists, they seem to be the worst overall for doing it (Wordsense and DiSSaster excepted - these dudes are cool enough to not have to ) BUT it happens so often now, can the admins keep up? The gauntlet has been thrown down
Wordsense	Date: July 21, 2002 @ 11:48 PM i agree with this 100%...these artists (mainly my fellow hip hop heads) streaming their own music really pisses me off. i work hard at tryin to promote my music outside this site and it jsut irritates me to see these guys cheating their way to the top of the charts... there should mos def be a cap/limit on streaming and downloading for users...preferrably on their own sites..lol and thank you Buzz...
dsch	Date: July 21, 2002 @ 11:54 PM I'm also with you. Why promote yourself in that way?
RyanS	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 3:23 AM Sure it's fine when you want to test it out, or show a friend or two, but to stream the same song 8 or more times?? ridiculous, I say!
Svensta	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 8:59 AM I agree, Dee. As for administrative control, it's defnitely easily institutable, from a network standpoint. Everything in here is user account driven. They track your movements and activities rather easily (just think about the point system after all) I tested this. I downloaded a track (which generates 10 points for a user) I went and re-downloaded it very quickly, and no further points were rewarded. Brom my lackadaisical research, I found that downloading a tune every ten minutes, allows for points to be granted, but nothing under 4 minutes would be counted. (I believe this might also have to do with downloading the entire track as opposed to just constantly clicking on the link. A dial-up user would know for certain. Perhaps the simple change enacted could be that the ENTIRE song, from start to finish, must be streamed in order to account for a listen on the chart. Yes newbies would screw up by never listening to the entire thing, but it would seriously hinder the scam-streamers. Just an idea!
Svensta	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 8:59 AM and that's "From my lackadaisical research"
mcarp555	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 9:11 AM So if some people feel the need to d/l their stuff all night, well I guess it keeps them from stealing hubcaps or whatever. Otherwise the only people they're fooling are themselves." id="13412">Yeah, all valid points, but on the other hand, who cares? As dee noted, the only time we hear from the most flagrant offenders, it's "listen to my crappy music!" - otherwise they do not interact at all. So why are they doing it at all? For chart position? The charts on this site are a joke. Bacteria evolve faster than these charts move. I've seen various admins here explain that charts are based on plays, blah blah blah, but my personal opinion (there's that word again Svensta) is that charts here change ONLY when someone waaaay up the food chain feels like resorting the lists manually. So if some people feel the need to d/l their stuff all night, well I guess it keeps them from stealing hubcaps or whatever. Otherwise the only people they're fooling are themselves.
Svensta	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 11:02 AM I find it funny how posts started and shouts made my some of these offenders are just ignored wholesale. I think that's the best reaction a simple user can have. I still do my one star ratings when I see people doing it, not that it matters, but I saw someone doing it this morning and when I when to their page, sure enough my rating and comment were already there :) " id="13428">I don't really care too much about quality. I think musical tastes are SO personal and intimate, you can't declare ANY song to be "shit". I mean after all, there are an army of people that think Ozzy was an untalented, sideshow of a musician too. It's all a matter of opinion, and everyone can have their own. I find it funny how posts started and shouts made my some of these offenders are just ignored wholesale. I think that's the best reaction a simple user can have. I still do my one star ratings when I see people doing it, not that it matters, but I saw someone doing it this morning and when I when to their page, sure enough my rating and comment were already there
theguppykillers	Date: July 22, 2002 @ 11:41 PM alot.Any ways on certain sites if you have a large number of songs you do have a better chance of plays and getting some where on the charts. " id="13472">the quantity thing is true! I am guilty of this but I do try to make sure that my songs are good musicly and good quality, if you listen to one of my old songs like corpses and then listen to one of my new songs like bleed you will here a huge difference and I have to thank milla and pog for that! they have helped me alot.Any ways on certain sites if you have a large number of songs you do have a better chance of plays and getting some where on the charts.
pog	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 8:41 AM Yo, Guppstar, It's not us that got betterer, it was you, dood. You're the one that improved... speaking for myself, anyways, milladrive prolly improved also
pog	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 8:42 AM Time will do that...
Svensta	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 9:02 AM Hopefully, all artists evolve, Gup, and I have to say IMHO that I agree with you. Your songs are DEFINITELY more and more to my liking. Of course, I also have everything They Might Be Giants put out and most of Echo and the Bunnymen in my collection, so my opinion might not be worth much anyway
theguppykillers	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 9:04 AM he he he thanx
CPSick	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 1:14 PM properly.Im sure it might the same for others. peace CP Sick lcp.dmusic.com " id="13506">I guilty of it, I stream my tracks but only to make sure that they are working properly.Im sure it might the same for others. peace CP Sick lcp.dmusic.com
THEORIAN	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:39 PM i will try my best as an artist now.. not to stream any more of my music.. although i only do it once to make sure i uploaded the right mix of the track..lol.. one time i uploaded a blank song.. oh well..
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:43 PM OK, you say that then you start a forum thread about your new songs being up. That's self-promotion.. BUT I think you have the right idea. One forum for artists to tell us what they have to offer. More 'publicity' less 'begging' - what you say?
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:44 PM oh shit, sorry DiSS, i was replying to CPSick
THEORIAN	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:47 PM lol.. its okay..
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:50 PM me?
bastardsofglory	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 2:59 PM jeeezuz, i didn't even realize you got points for downloads and that it affected your chart position. if i'd known that, all you would see was bastardsofglory streamed bastardsofglory
bastardsofglory	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 3:08 PM so, my artist of the week is ChillinBuzz. not only because i listen to phat khat on Repeat for hours, but because overall he's a good dude with nice things to say and good music to listen to :)" id="13520">we should all be promoting each other. the thing i like about this site in comparison to mp3 is that you can interact more seemlessly. THAT is way cool. i like how you can post things in somone's shoutbox and let them know what you think. i like that songs and users can be rated. i like the "community" feel to it. so, my artist of the week is ChillinBuzz. not only because i listen to phat khat on Repeat for hours, but because overall he's a good dude with nice things to say and good music to listen to
mcarp555	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 4:57 PM Maybe a thing to try would be to shut down the charts for awhile and see what happens. They're pretty useless anyway.
imrann54	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 6:50 PM i stream my song once after i'm done to make sure it works and sounds fine. after that, i stream it a lot of times so my friends and fam can hear it u kno (my harddisk doesnt even have space to store my songs lol). i see why ppl think its cheating, so i'm gonna stop doing that and try to get a new computer with a bigger harddrive, so i dont have to stream anymore...
theguppykillers	Date: July 23, 2002 @ 9:39 PM I dont cause I know they work so that is no longer a good excuse
Svensta	Date: July 24, 2002 @ 8:53 AM Kudos to Bastards for being a contributing artist and a member of the community, I think if the site becomes more trafficked and becomes a serious music resource (which I think is fading), then the concerns regarding the charts are valid and need to be addressed. For now, I have to agree with MCarp more and say that the charts realy DONT serve that great a purpose here.
Svensta	Date: July 25, 2002 @ 9:08 PM I agree witcha Dee. Bastards and Chillin are prime examples of how new artists here should carry themselves. I think all the regulars here have scoped some or all of their tunes just BECAUSE they are active participants. We need to be a COMMUNITY again. Okay, Chillie's a bad example, that guy is too addicted to this place
RyanS	Date: July 26, 2002 @ 4:33 AM This is one thing I love about this site.. the interaction. I may not agree that 90% of the stuff here is , but then again, it's personal opinions. One thing to think about is that no matter what you listen to, there is something here for everyone. Plus it does give new artists a way to get noticed. As for me, I do like hip-hop, along with rock, alternative, electronic, etc. But I'm more apt to listen to and/or download someone's track(s) if they interact. Now I just need more time (and broadband) to actually start listening again
milladrive	Date: July 26, 2002 @ 1:05 PM I agree with that 100%, Ryan.
princess-angry	Date: July 26, 2002 @ 8:19 PM me too I have to go lo-fi for everything.... just to get it to load at a decent speed...
mcarp555	Date: July 27, 2002 @ 12:54 PM Or, nobody can stream any song more than a certain number of times per hour, day, whatever. We all know people are using fake names and rerunning their own stuff. Should anyone need to stream a song more than say, twice in a fifteen minute period?
dashzero	Date: July 27, 2002 @ 8:32 PM Hmm I dont stream my own songs, but see if I would I would have a reason to do it... First of all its easier just came buy remembered ur song and streamed it, but true those who just run fo points aint gonna go far..
princess-angry	Date: July 27, 2002 @ 8:37 PM some people do need to test if thier songs sound good in streaming format too.. cause I have to test my songs that burn on cd a few times to see if they come out right...
Svensta	Date: July 29, 2002 @ 8:48 AM I don't know if it's even a priority fix, honestly. The charts here really don't gain you much in terms of exposure. Regulars like us prolly comprise over 50% of the listens on this site after all. And we as a whole, tend to scope out music from people we enjoy talking to. I know that's certainly the case for me, and a few others have said as much as well. I just think in every community there will be people who abuse the rules to their 'advantage'. I'm not really concerned about it, because I don't see much of an advantage in it around here. We've all said that the charts are very low-impact (if any). I just think other than antagonizing them on a personal level (if you find people with a one star rating, chances are I've seen them batch-streaming and rated them ) Just ignore the problem, I say.
ChillinBuzz	Date: July 29, 2002 @ 9:02 AM If I was addicted, I'd have stolen a PC yesterday to log in As for the charts - 'The Whistler' went into the main Top 20 at No.18 - eh? It was gone a day later. Now that's mad. At least the charts are moving about tho' I wish I'd interacted from the first day I joined. I got active after reading some of the news articles, something popped a brain cell and that was it, off I went. My points have gone sky high but I'd like people to think that it's because of my activities here and not because I'm a point wh0re D) which I'm not. I love this place and maybe I spend a lot of time here, but why not? There are few sites I visit for anything now when it comes to music. With the massive influx of artists here we need to be able to see who's who. A page showing all the artists in a certain genre because if you don't make the charts or the bin, you're invisible. I would've been almost invisible too if it wasn't for the forums on picking ur fav. music (cheque's in the post to all those who nominated me ) Everyone wants a piece of fame, some publicity or just want comments. If you like their music, play it and tell them how to advertise themselves here. If they're crap, tell them too. BUT there's no point to repeatedly streaming your own songs, regardless of anyone's opinions on it (and those I've spoken to privately will know what I mean) - If you're on your own machine, you should have the original files. If not, download and play repeatedly. The quality would be better for starters.
mcdea	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 6:44 AM I agree with you guys 150%, any hiphop artist or artist period for that matter, doing that SHOULD have their accounts and music removed. What is the point of doin' all this if it's not even fair? Well that's my 2 cents anyway. -=Out=-
Svensta	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 8:37 AM Plus if you are over someone else's house, you would sign up a new user for them, so they can CONTINUALLY keep up with the goings-on of your band on D Musika. It's self-promotion at its easiest." id="14549">Chillin: my check bounced, I still am waiting on that money VERY good point though, all that "I was just peeping it for my friends/agents/family/Carson Daly" excuse doesn't hold water cause any artist not retarded has PLENTY of copies local to his machine already. Good catch on that, Chillin, cause as I am not an artist, I wouldn't have thunk it. Plus if you are over someone else's house, you would sign up a new user for them, so they can CONTINUALLY keep up with the goings-on of your band on D Musika. It's self-promotion at its easiest.
RyanS	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 12:18 PM The best thing to do here is just have one stream count per song and user, and over a certain time period, like 24 hours. Sure, artists can log into different names, and stream it again, but this would help keep artists (and regular users, for that matter) from continually streaming one song repeatedly. It does it when we post comments, shouts, etc. Try posting the same comment 5 times.. you'll see that you will only get 5 points, not 25!
sparx	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 3:14 PM i agree, but artists should still be allowed to stream, it should have a maximum amount allowed like 2 a day from a person, because people still need to be able to do it
princess-angry	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 7:32 PM chillin buzz... thanx 4 being honest!!! ;)" id="14690">""I wish I'd interacted from the first day I joined. I got active after reading some of the news articles, something popped a brain cell and that was it, off I went. My points have gone sky high but I'd like people to think that it's because of my activities here and not because I'm a point wh0re () which I'm not. I love this place and maybe I spend a lot of time here, but why not? There are few sites I visit for anything now when it comes to music."" chillin buzz... thanx 4 being honest!!!
princess-angry	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 7:34 PM and you have been an excellent part of this place so far... thanx also 4 being a good friend
creativetim	Date: August 1, 2002 @ 11:33 PM It can be annoying when its over and over, but if I was in a band, hell yeah I'd wanna drive me car at 20mph with my music wailing! In some respects it's tolerable, but in others, it's just lame.
Svensta	Date: August 2, 2002 @ 8:35 AM Yes, I definitely would give them some leeway, but most of the ones we take umbrage at are clicking on stream for a given song every 15 seconds or so. Not even listening to their own music, just upping the number of total streams. Heheh, that's my work for the day, I used "umbrage" in a sentence.
Klendathu	Date: August 2, 2002 @ 3:53 PM Amazing that their very actions cause the regulars here to behave so contumeliously! (Heh! "Contumeliously..." my word for the day.)
RyanS	Date: August 2, 2002 @ 4:07 PM I'm not saying artists shouldn't stream. I really don't care if they stream the same song 100 times. What I was trying to say that only one stream will count, not the other 99.. btw, nice word Klendathu
Klendathu	Date: August 2, 2002 @ 5:32 PM Hey Ryan, you didn't share YOUR word for the day. Get with the program!
RyanS	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 3:20 AM I have no word for the day. It's just the same word every day ever since I remember.. it's 4 letters, begins with F, and ends in K..lol
AngelicPacif...	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 9:31 AM For real... I don't like that shit at all... Good songs could stay at the bottom of tha charts while crappy songs, which someone has streamed over and over again, could make it to the top ten... shit is ridiculous if ya asked me... 1!
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 12:16 PM F**K? is it fork then, RyanS? I sometimes check out the serial streamers, after all that's what they want you to do and I sometimes give their songs the time of day. However, like one person sticking a request in the 'fun game' to peep his songs, I tend to ignore. No offence on those ppl but that's not the place to stick such comments. Keep them to the relevant forums or privately to users. Word for the day? 'fiddlesticks'
princess-angry	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 12:20 PM my word for the day is steakhouse....
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 12:22 PM heh, you and your steak
princess-angry	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 12:23 PM yep
Klendathu	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 2:13 PM Like Chill, I've been tempted to check out the serial streamers' songs, but don't. In the end, I feel disinclined to do so because of of the inveiglement I perceive.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 3:02 PM I've just been watching someone go on a streaming frenzy on their own stuff. I sent a shout and a msg to see if it was a streaming problem. Somehow I can't think of anyone who would try a broken file OVER 20 TIMES, go to another artist, DO THE SAME THING, go back to themselves, ad nauseum. The thing that annoys me is that without replying I can only assume one thing. Know what I mean, FraZe?
milladrive	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 3:06 PM I think it's so amazing that it bothers so many people. What's it to ya? How does it affect your life in the slightest? I wouldn't worry about it.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 3:28 PM sigh it doesn't bother me in that the guy is sad enough to want to do that, he could've had to decency to reply instead of running off.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 4:52 PM or do I c) break the swing so no-one else goes on it?" id="14937">doesnt bandwidth come into it anywhere? must cost a fortune! I'm a kid playing on a swing. I play on it all day. Other kids sometimes have a go but I'm too busy showing off how high i can swing to notice other kids waiting for a go. A parent comes up to me and asks why I do that. Do I a)ignore him as I'm a kid (and dont talk to strangers either ) or do I b) say "Get lost, I'm here first" ? or do I c) break the swing so no-one else goes on it?
milladrive	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 4:59 PM No no, Chill, I agree w/you there. A response would not only be appropriate, but courteous as well. Bandwidth isn't really an issue (altho I appreciate your playground analogy) 'cause once the new dl is begun, the previous one is ended. The system sees it as one continuous stream. I just don't think it's anything to worry about. Either they don't get the stream right away so they click away like lunatics, or they're clickin' on all 5 dl/stream buttons, or the system glitches (I streamed a track the other day and it showed up 3x in the recent interactivity box), or whatever. It ain't no thang.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 5:11 PM True, I've seen the 'double-stream' happen to me a couple of times. Maybe it happens a lot more, just that ppl don't say much about it. Or maybe they dont stare into the main page enough
princess-angry	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 7:07 PM it happens to me sometimes...
Cryxan	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 7:52 PM I've also seen a few times where I streamed or downloaded a track, and it didn't show up at all. And then there are the times when a song is streamed by a user that's been offline for hours. What am I supposed to make of that? Considering these things, and what we see on the board when people post in the Boycott-RIAA forums, maybe the recent interaction board isn't as accurate as we would like to think. What if the multiple streams are just a system glitch?
princess-angry	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 8:09 PM yeah.... it could just be an error in the system.
theguppykillers	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 8:31 PM what if all of this is just a dream and none of us are real! wow this is wierd?!@#
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2002 @ 8:32 PM but the forums seem to be interlinked between the sites, what about the music and the art?" id="14983">heh, in that case you're saying "CODER: HELP!" but the forums seem to be interlinked between the sites, what about the music and the art?
Svensta	Date: August 5, 2002 @ 8:54 AM (Programmers are a cranky lot, and only respond well to drill sergeant mentality, I have found :D )" id="15113">They don't respond to civility, Chillin. Try: "Coder, get your lazy Mountain Dew-drinking ASS back to the freaking keyboard and DEBUG! You KNOW how to DEBUG dontcha? It's like when your mom used to put RID in your hair to get rid of LICE. Now MOVE IT. (Programmers are a cranky lot, and only respond well to drill sergeant mentality, I have found )
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 5, 2002 @ 9:15 PM It is an issue concerning coding tho' Dee, whatever we say that's taken in for consideration by the admins will eventually turn to the programming aspect. When the problems get ironed out, we'll soon see who really is taking the mickey out of the streaming system.
forrix	Date: August 10, 2002 @ 5:52 AM at the risk of being a little snot, i've started a thread about said streaming offenders. i don't know why it buggs me so much... milla's right - what's it to me?? how does it affect my life in the slightest? maybe it's cause i fear better artists are getting crowded from the spotlight they deserve. ...then again maybe it's cause i work night shift and have nothing better to do.
Svensta	Date: August 11, 2002 @ 8:30 PM We come here to be entertained? I come here also to keep abreast of the RIAA issue and whatnot, while getting to spout out about it and comment and suggest my share of views. Why don't we just let this go off on it's own? if the admins want to change it, they will, I'm sure. I dunno, just throwing pennies in" id="15580">I agree Forrix, I suggested much the same thing when talking in the shoutbox a while back, but Milla's commentary had a bit of a point. I don't really care that much about this chart system thing. People want to stream incessantly, I suppose it's like someone else getting mad at a "point wh0re" for posting nonstop in a journal or nonsense thread. After all this is about entertainment, right? We come here to be entertained? I come here also to keep abreast of the RIAA issue and whatnot, while getting to spout out about it and comment and suggest my share of views. Why don't we just let this go off on it's own? if the admins want to change it, they will, I'm sure. I dunno, just throwing pennies in
pog	Date: August 11, 2002 @ 9:27 PM I think the offenders would be loving the fact that you guys are paying oh so much attention to them. If you see them doing it, then you must be very bored anyways, but if it still bothers you, listen to their song... if it's spam their thumbs down button, and give the song it's due comment/s. If it's a good song, spam them with comments asking why they are so silly as to wanna cheat. I'm happy to say that I've never needed to adopt cheating as a way to progress, and if I ever did, I prolly still wouldn't win. Bottom line is that dmusic's members are an intelligent bunch, (just look at those big words) so as far as spamming yer songs for gain goes... go ahead and waste your time as you're only fooling yourselves... much to our amusement.
forrix	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 12:00 AM heh - ya'll are right.. now that i'm looking at this issue fresh (and not strung out on night shift) i'm kinda looking at it from a different view. milla IS right - why let myself be bothered by it? what a wise fellow.
Cryxan	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 4:11 AM I just figured out why it bothers me. It fills up the recent interaction box, and I can't see what kind of activity is actually going on. I don't know why I didn't realize this earlier.
JCASTELLAIN	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 5:03 AM I can,t see what all the fuss is about, re-write the program(site program) to only accept one unique stream per day..it is easy as that!,then if someone streams their own stuff(they might get a buzz from hearing their stuff off the net..which is cool...I certainly do, as everybody does if they are truthful. With some software modification the best of both desires may be achieved. Of course the other side of the coin is us musos work bloody hard to create music that mp3 sites use for free,is that fair??????????????
Defbyvolume	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 7:32 AM Knee capped?..ooo ouch!!!
Defbyvolume	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 7:33 AM Bring me a wheelchair...anybody!
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 12:17 PM oh, feck the serial streamers, just go rate them 1 star, thumbs down and shouts of 'lamer' in their boxes. It'll raise the interaction here a lot more too I'll bet
Svensta	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 12:23 PM Chillin must have seen my tagline in many a streamers shoutboxes hehehe Guilty as charged
5thflaw	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 1:51 PM Wah bout that kid who made like 10 responses in the shoutout box in a row?
mcarp555	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 6:36 PM Then again, would it be heresy to suggest that maybe none of it matters? Including our complaining, commenting or suggestions? The system does what it does, the Admins can't or can't be bothered to change things, the d/ls & streams don't have any effect on anything and we're all just spinning our wheels because nothing ever changes? Does the emperor have no clothes?
Wordsense	Date: August 12, 2002 @ 11:55 PM does the emperor have no clothes?..whoa thats deep...

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