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social stratification at dmusic

2step-4eva	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:00 AM i'd like to make a complaint. i have noticed a class system in place at dmusic. as a student of sociology i have noticed a class stratification system at dmusic, on a similar model to the ones that exist in a lot of modern societies to stop the lower classes from acheiving anything. at the top of the dmusic pile are the rock and electronic artists. all the other artists are somewhere in the middle, except for the rappers, who are at the bottom, despite outnumbering all the other artists combined. i have noticed a political environment at dmusic similar to that of the real world. the rock and electronic artists don't particularly like the rappers, and dont think that they should have a say in anything. however human rights activists are saying, if the rappers outnumber the rest of the members combined, shouldn't they get a better deal? the rock/electronic artists hold all the positions of power, and want to keep it that way. the rappers are being persecuted. i just thought that after reading snoman's topic about sub forum topics... or something... not saying i agree with him, but it is a good example of a divided society in which the rock/electronic artists play the ruling class.
2step-4eva	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:03 AM by the way if you didn't quite get that you have to note a hint of sarcasm in my voice that can't really be portrayed on an internet forum, and if you're from america you wouldn't get anyway. but yeah its just something to think about.
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:07 AM There are disgruntled people everywhere and I have found people who decide that something exists will find among enough people the facts that something exists where in the overall scheme of things it really doesn't ... Of course you may not accept this, but being a canadian lets me see that.
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:09 AM Sides all that university teaches you is to comform to what you are taught ... creative thinking takes place when the thoughts are not constrained to being logical ... common sense gets in the way of creative thinking
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:12 AM Which also brings the point of the accused ... some would agree with what you said ... some would not ... however the fact of being accused makes them all look guilty even though they might not be and nothing they say will change the mind of anyone who believes your theory ...
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:13 AM Which means that you can say anything and some of the people will always believe it ... crop circles and ufo's
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:15 AM Now you may be asking why I am short posting ...makes it easier to read overall... attention span of very creative people is short ... too much to get off their minds ...
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:16 AM University teaches people how to be brain dead and to repeat what they have been molded to believe ... breaking the mold is hard ... but a bigger hammer may work
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:23 AM Don't be afraid to disagree ... 'as a student of sociology i have noticed a class stratification system at dmusic, on a similar model to the ones that exist in a lot of modern societies to stop the lower classes from acheiving anything.' more of less direct quotes from your prof won't help yah here ... sociology is a book taught cop out ... philosophy is where it is at
pangtera	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 8:37 AM let me be the first to point out myself as a counterexample. I grew up on rock and heavy metal, make music that is electronic, but I enjoy all types of music (as long as they have a good melody). My only beef with hip hop and rap artists is their lyrics and music videos which, in my opinion degrade women and make the ideals of love and affection superficial and something that is easily dispensible, but that's just me.
BlackMage	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 10:22 AM Just to comment on this. Not the whole thing. "i just thought that after reading snoman's topic about sub forum topics... or something... not saying i agree with him, but it is a good example of a divided society in which the rock/electronic artists play the ruling class." If we're going to have a vocalist subforum about a certain type of vocalist, then why not all of the other vocalists too? I don't give a rat's ass if you're a majority. The majority of people who use the forum are not rappers. The electronic artists have wanted an "electronic" subforum too. Well, why not "hip hop", "rap", "metal", "rock", "alternative", "emo", "satanworshippers", "idiots", "you get the point" then for good measure? Why not just use the damn music forum? Too hard? This place is overcrowded with forums already.
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 10:25 AM I think that this is complete bullshit! I certainly don’t ascribe to it anyway and I don’t think that any of the people that I associate closely to do either. However, we all have our own personal taste in music and that’s totally different than class war fair. I don’t see the man keeping anyone down here. Now that being said if you see people poking fun at people who spell with numbers and rough abbreviations and using slang terms that seem to be genre specific, that’s a different thing all together. Language is supposed to be something that unites people---its purpose is specifically so that we can understand each other. I don’t even know what else to say. I personal do not believe that there is any kind of a discriminatory hierarchy here. We are all just a bunch of people here at all different levels trying to do something that we enjoy. My
GeneHilbert	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 10:37 AM That’s ridiculous, social classes indeed...... I love all the little people, and I treat them like family......... "Oh James……. more tea please - and don't forget our soirée this evening - guest should be arriving promptly at 8pm".
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 10:42 AM
desiderata	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 11:20 AM I know you mentioned there was a 'hint of sarcasm' but still, this idea is ridiculous. Sure, DMusic has drama sometimes, because it's a group of emotional, creative people with different personalities that sometimes they clash. And overall, the community is supportive and respectful. When looking at DMusic from a sociological perspective, perhaps you should consider the benefits of group membership instead of taking a very Marxist perspective where everything is viewed in class terms. Also, the silly anti-American comment distracts from the point you're trying to make.
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 11:22 AM 2step - honestly, I can't quite figure out what you're talking about. I see that you wrote a whole bunch of stuff there; and I read it all. But I got all the way to the end and thought, "wait, did he just say anything?" The reason I say that is that you didn't give any examples of what, if anything, you're talking about. Aside from some reference to a post in another thread regarding the need for a different forum. So is that what you're saying, that the rap genre is being discriminated against here and that, as evidence, there's no rap forum? I'm asking that seriously. What do you mean by saying that the "rock/electronic artists hold all the positions of power?" What's a position of power? Are you talking about the admins? If so, do you know who all the admins are and can you break down their "genres?" Because some of the admins aren't musicians at all. Basically I think this would be an interesting topic of discussion if you put some substance into it. Otherwise you're just kind of randomly waving your hands around in the air.
onewhodreams	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 11:46 AM at the top of the dmusic pile are the rock and electronic artists. Uhm... No who are at the bottom, despite outnumbering all the other artists combined. Uhm... No the rock and electronic artists don't particularly like the rappers, and dont think that they should have a say in anything. Uhm... that's quite a bit of generalizing. the rock/electronic artists hold all the positions of power, and want to keep it that way. the rappers are being persecuted. That one HAS to be sarcastic!
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 12:41 PM Er since when is being a musician a reason for being a admin???
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 12:52 PM If so -- being a musician isn't a reason for being an admin. Being a musician has nothing at all to do with being an admin. Which is basically my point. He's talking on one hand about stratifications at dmusic based on artist genre. Then after that he says, and I quote: "the rock/electronic artists hold all the positions of power." So I'm asking what is a "position of power." The only answer I could come up with was the position of admin. Maybe that's not what he's talking about, but that's all I could think of. And I was just pointing out that there are admins who aren't artists, which means they don't have a "genre," and so what he's saying doesn't make sense in that context." id="177024">I assume you're speaking to my comment about "some of the admins aren't musicians at all." If so -- being a musician isn't a reason for being an admin. Being a musician has nothing at all to do with being an admin. Which is basically my point. He's talking on one hand about stratifications at dmusic based on artist genre. Then after that he says, and I quote: "the rock/electronic artists hold all the positions of power." So I'm asking what is a "position of power." The only answer I could come up with was the position of admin. Maybe that's not what he's talking about, but that's all I could think of. And I was just pointing out that there are admins who aren't artists, which means they don't have a "genre," and so what he's saying doesn't make sense in that context.
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 12:57 PM trust me it took me a long time to be even a little bit recognized as a human being on here, but the next person in ne other genre takes less time, it is true
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 1:05 PM Same for me K7. See, there's that stratification again! You're human?
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 1:07 PM Usually the position of power is the one who gets to the toilet first in the morning
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 1:11 PM As a listener ... I get to get under people's fingernails and annoy the heck out of them while promoting their asses by just mentioning them
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 1:12 PM also whine all yah like ... if your good yah will succeed ... although you may not be popular ...
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 1:13 PM Ok ... need more sleep ... I'm not even making sense to myself
Alecs	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:20 PM "and if you're from america you wouldn't get anyway" Ten years ago I would've been mad at you for saying that (despite the fact that I was 6 and had no idea what anything was). Now...it's actually somewhat true
azhazhellfire	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:31 PM i think 2step has more of a point than we'd like to accept. when you see a rapper post an indecipherable comment what do you think? i'll bet it's not "i bet this fellow has an interesting point, i'll make an attempt to decipher his terribly spelt and structured comment and try to understand what he's saying". it's probably more something along the lines of "fucking rappers". Yes, it may not be true for everyone but it certainly is for a large proportion of this community. and when you think of shameless self promotions do you think of the rock artists showing people their stuff? no. you think of "those stupid rappers spamming our shoutboxes, notes and forums". and although i've noticed it is to a very low degree, this attitude does affect our attitude towards new rappers. i'd say there is a proportion of people on this site who would far sooner attempt to make friends with an electronic or rock artist simply due to the stereotype of extreme forwardness and slight lack of intelligence, grammar and spelling we have associated rappers with.
desiderata	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:41 PM If you want to be understood, write in a way that makes that possible. No one wants to have to "decipher" something that could just as easily have been written in standard English. I should change my username to 'SexyGrammarian.'
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:44 PM Well lookie here, I stand corrected then if this is a reflection of how the rest of the site feels then the premise of the thread holds water. Though you write in proper English and I had to do very little deciphering, I still disagree azhazhellfire. I’m sad that you and apparently others feel this way! My experience here is quite the opposite with the people who I know best.
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:53 PM
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 2:56 PM ive never spammed before but people dont always take me serious anyways
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:01 PM so is the problem that people don't feel like they're taken seriously? Ih?
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:24 PM Kevin---are you always serious? Heck, people hardly ever take me seriously-------cause most of the time I'm NOT serious----except of course when I am. Serious!
azhazhellfire	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:29 PM ok maybe it's just me.
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:30 PM See, like this for example: I am being completely ignored yet I don't feel stratificated at all. And I'm not a rapper, or a pop, or a rock, or an electronic. I PROVE THE EXCEPTION TO THE... oh wait there's still no indication about what exactly Nevermind then.
johnyjordan	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:32 PM For what it's worth... My personal opinion is that most of the Rap artists on this site don't possess great talent. Don't get me wrong, I like rap. There are plenty of people on here who are good at what they do. However, many of the Rap artists on this site "stink it up" to put it lightly.
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:33 PM I wish Kingo would chime in here!
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:35 PM yes but how many times do people not listen to what i have to say or try to humiliate me when i ask them not too.. and how long did it take me to get even somewhatly estabilished aroudn here
EtherEclectic	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:37 PM wait, you are complaining about the way people treat people yet you make an anti american comment? gee what famous country do you hail from?
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:45 PM Kevin, I poke fun with you all then time but you have never asked me not to and you seem to be good spirited about it. That’s healthy---people give me grief all the time and I know-----it’s all in fun. Now, you joined Jul 05, 2005------it took me at least 6 months before anyone really noticed me aside from a few folks that I remain friends today. I suppose you want to make a six figure income right out of high school too? Time my friend. All things take time.
DeadraveN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:45 PM well, this is all a bit of silly, idn't it? we have rapper admins, so if Kingo's assumption that "position of power" was a reference to admins, then that is discredited, we also have several rappers who are quite well known and respected here, I'd say just as many as there are "dark rockers" or 'folk" musicians.. so I don't think genre has anything to do with treatment from this community. k3vin, I'll put this simply for you, you get picked on because you react. they eat that shit up here. if you played along you probably wouldn't get it so bad, hell, lots of people get made fun of or teased here and there, the ones who get it most are the ones who react. and call me crazy, but i agree with Imemine about the language.. there are tons of users who speak languages other than english, yet when they post they do so in English, so they can communicate with the majority. I put the numbers-as-letters-and-overly-abreviated-words lingo in the same category. you want people to listen, speak clearly. Sarcasm or no, there was simply nothing truthful in that opening post. but hey, I'm American, what do I know?
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:49 PM RockEtherEclectic Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:37 PM wait, you are complaining about the way people treat people yet you make an anti american comment? gee what famous country do you hail from? wtf? when did i say that
DeadraveN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:50 PM yeah, I think that was 2step, not kev...
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:51 PM i dont see an anti american comment ne where around here, like 3 months ago i mighta said something about bush wtf are u guys talking about.
DeadraveN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:52 PM no no.. bush bash all you want. I think he was refering to 2step's second post...
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:52 PM see this is the thing, people dont even read shit and im getting comments about o what do i know im american, did u guys even read, its like my shits not being read. But when someone else says i did something -_- jebus chryslers
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:55 PM Holy crap K3vin's just turned into like K4vin. The mercury's in the red! HE'S GONNA POP!!!
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:55 PM when 2 consecutive people make a referal to america bashing when i psoted last and i am complaining, i think they were refering to me and thought i made the comment.
hantu	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:56 PM thats because you haev always played the Mr Joker role ... and when ur not taken seriously when you are being serious its not always obvious... Hmm well, i used to be in the hiphop genre and nobody looked down on me or took the piss out of me in any major way.... well not that i know of... Btw the reason i changed was simply because the hiphop community didn't really except my music as hiphop, which im not arguing with, coz thats prolly true... infact i don't know why i even chose to be in the hiphop genre ... but anywho... not important now.. Oh and as for rock/electronic having all the power or well Dizeazed is an Admin and so is TDUBB ... the 2 that i know about... im sure if the hiphop community felt a need for something and the hiphop admins agree'd they would prolly try and do something about it. okay yeh sometimes people do take the piss out of people who post stupid "yo yo yo fizzle my gizzle for my nizzle" ... okay that example sounded kinda wrong... but you get the drift... so when people post crap like that ... its like whats the point... speak something close to english at least.... fine if they anna use it in their songs thats fine im kool with that... but not posting in forums tryna act like gangters... You all know what its like, a noobie hiphopian comes here and start gansta posting... "yo lame ass cats, got a diss.. blahblah" okay fine you have a dis track up cool... but don't insult me while you promo it... ffs... i think sometimes noobs feel that maybe they need to act like a hard ass, but there really is no need... everyone is reasonable nice people... im sure, but its just the act some of them put on... its fuking boogles Aah! anyway, i think some of the hiphop artists need to post a tad more humanly... Oh and Mr K3vin, chillout man, yeh i admit i found you to be a bit of a hard ass at first, mainly because of ur posts, but i soon found you was actually pretty kool! heh and amusing... not always at ur expense lol im blabbering on about the noobs not making sense... when i doubt any of that made sense at all
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:56 PM Dear god----THAT’S the problem---it has nothing to do with “social stratification”! Its all about simple misunderstandings!
DeadraveN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:56 PM Funny how he's complaining about not being paid enough attention, yet apparently not reading my posts... what would alanis morriset say?
CowgirlBebop	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:56 PM I must be really out of the loop around here.
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:57 PM hard ass.. ive always tried to be funny, btw tdubb is one of the worst admins ive ever seen in my life, fucking always deletes my posts and shit..
DeadraveN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:58 PM holy god you guys post fast...
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:59 PM See---there you go dissing the rap dudes! Damn the man!
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 3:59 PM well ethers sounded like it was refering to me
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:00 PM well w.e simple misunderstandings but i do feel that i am picked on by alot of people, i.e. gene hilbert
kingo	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:00 PM K3vin, I think only one comment was made about you saying something unamerican. Not two. But I could be wronge with an e on it. I, for one, ignore the "battle" thread altogether, as well as anyone saying they "posted a dis," because, well, that has nothing to do with what music's about; and it doesn't provoke me to want to hear/read/comment/discuss anything. So maybe that's what 2step's saying. Apparently, though, i'll never actually know what 2step's saying because he won't come back and clarify.
EtherEclectic	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:06 PM k3vin not you lol...the original poster made a comment about americans.
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:08 PM internet is confusing.. i think im gonna go outside..
EtherEclectic	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:08 PM no need, you are cool, i find nothin wrong with ya, if anyone does just chunk a rotten tomato at them.
imemine	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:10 PM
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:11 PM hmm ill need gloves
hantu	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:13 PM Hmm maybe you was tryna be funny, but you have to bare in mind that i can't read the tone in yer text TDUBB keeps deleteing ur posts have you asked him why? Oh and don't worry about Gene, he picks on everyone... That Bastard! lol... yeh that should trigger an insult my way... Happy Days! Yipee!
leflaw	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:15 PM what is electronic music?
onewhodreams	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:39 PM @leflaw
TDUBB	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:39 PM I think the hip hop people do try to hard to be the hardest people on the net. and i can speak on that because i am part of the hip hop community. im done with all the battles and disses that comes with being a rapper on dmusic plus i cant post songs cause my manager is pushing me to a few major labels. as soon as people see you doing good for yourself on here , the others come along to try to break you away for why you doing your music. the thing i see between the hip hop community and the others is the hip hop hates on eachother instead of trying to stick together like i see the other genres do. I dont think the rappers have a hard time up here at all. i made admin up here in less than 2 years and i just really started using dmusic like 6 months ago. you can betray yourself to be what ever you want to be in your music but you have to know how to get along with people that might be able to help you out.
TDUBB	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:42 PM any BTW i delete k3vin's smart remarks on my forums i make. no need for drama in them. i here to have a good time. drama free
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:44 PM i love drama, me am be actor,
hantu	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 5:00 PM "me am be actor" if you take the "actor" out.. so its just "me am be" and say that as one word "meambe" sounds like a pretty cool name ... don't it?? Meambe
K3VIN	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 5:01 PM maybe my first daughter will have that name
hantu	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 5:13 PM lol... i'll make a new character with that name now
kyodylee	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 5:51 PM If by "social stratification" you mean some sort of class system in which one group of people think they are innately superior to another group of people ... then no, I disagree with you. But is there a hierarchy at DMusic? Of course there is. Just as there is in any setting with a large group of people. Where you stand on the totem pole though has nothing to do with your race, nationality, genre, or any other physical characteristic. But it does have everything to do with your reputation. And that is something almost entirely controlled by yourself. If I understand correctly, you want everyone at DMusic to be treated equal. On the surface that sounds right and fair. But it is not. Treating everyone equal would not be the same as treating everyone fair. By this I mean, the people who work the hardest at promoting the site (and that benefits everyone here) should be treated differently than those who do nothing. It's called paying your dues, earning a good reputation and moving up the chain. The more you put into it the more you get out of it. You probably have no clue as to all the hard work the admins do behind the scenes and the amount of time they put in voluntarily. Most admins are not paid anything, they give their own time and energy to help DMusic be the best music community on the internet. You want more power? Step up to the plate and volunteer your services. Leflaw will thank you personally if you do. My
TDUBB	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 11:49 PM being an admin is a unpaid fun job. and yes it is word work keeping the site in order and the rules enforced. shout box and forum abuse is not cool. it takes time and money that leflaw puts into dmusic to keep this site running. and abusers ruin it for us all.
TameasDust	Date: November 19, 2005 @ 11:57 PM well not all rappers are fuckable but if yah wanna AZ go for it
hantu	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 12:00 AM "and yes it is word work keeping the site in order and the rules enforced" --- but thats the fun bit... isn't it ?
TameasDust	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 12:00 AM anywho ... as I was sayin 'Date: November 19, 2005 @ 4:12 AM Which also brings the point of the accused ... some would agree with what you said ... some would not ... however the fact of being accused makes them all look guilty even though they might not be and nothing they say will change the mind of anyone who believes your theory ...' and
TameasDust	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 12:02 AM I prefer to leave whoopie cushions on their chairs when they stand up to scream how unfair it is that they don't own the site ...
billrhynes	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 12:04 AM fuckin educated idiots w/ big words/small brains.
TameasDust	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 12:06 AM hey i ressemble that remark
TameasDust	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 1:01 AM well he could have named the forum something like 'rappers are all whiners ' then said what he said
TDUBB	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 1:08 AM
TameasDust	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 4:37 AM but I buried that forum ... somewhere ... down yonder ... under somethin ... hee hee
2step-4eva	Date: November 20, 2005 @ 1:19 PM