DMusic.com | for indie musicians and fans | Free MP3 music downloads - Forums: Help: Thanks again, DM. Seriously. Thanks.

Forums > Help

Thanks again, DM. Seriously. Thanks.

kingo	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 10:52 AM I'm here strictly to argue with everyone.
zedsalt	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 11:15 AM Well, according to ChillinBuzz, that was what the redesign was SUPPOSED to do- cut down on the traffic. He said that this is something that "has to happen" here every once in a while to ensure that DM never gets as big as those other sites. And by making DMusic less "about the music", they've obviously succeeded. The proliferation of flaming, trolling, copyright infringement, etc. is a foreseeable and, apparently, acceptable consequence of that self-sabotage.
Israfel	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 2:19 PM kingo, man, I love you. And that is a sincere statement. Some may see you as an upstart but too bad...you are the flashlight of reality around here sometimes. I appreciate that. As for the top brass being open to suggestions, as Buzz stated...hmmmm, I'm not so sure anymore. I know many that have made suggestions, good ones too, and their hasn't been a response. Not even so much as a "we'll take that into cosideration." Honestly, I don't think it's a matter of only the members having more options or of the brass making changes. Doesn't anyone else feel there is an air of mediocrity here going on at all levels? We're sort of stuck in this warp where we either all jump into the icky pool if someone posts a poopy thread or we careen off topic if someone attempts to post a meatier thread or we ignore threads all together. Few seem to have much to say these days that is sincere. Sincerity is at a premium and, truth be told, not always met with open arms. So, regardless of what the "top brass" decide to do or don't do, unless we nip the insincerity bug in the ass...not a whole hell of lot will ever change.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 3:07 PM Where are the top brass anyway? The top brass rarely seem interested in suggestions. They seem disinterested or just happy to plod along in cruise control. I rarely see Leflaw or Tracy posting in any threads these days. Now I know Larry is a smart guy with many business interests but lately, (and maybe he can give a valid answer as to why this is) he seems disconnected from this site. Now I appreciate the top brass are the ones keeping Dmusic alive and paying the server costs etc. It just seems strange to me that they don't seem to want to do more to promote the site and gain legit users, instead of the low class illegal uploaders or duplicate accounts that lay dormant that allow Dmusic to claim a huge number base, when in reality, the number of regular users posting original music and getting involved in posting news, on the forums or shoutboxing. The real number of participants as opposed to those who registered an account is probably a very low % As for insincerity...I have not really personally experienced much of this (I think, maybe I'm naive) but definately a large proportion of users seem to just want kudos and praise and are not interested in constructive feedback or objective opinions. Is this the kind of insincerity you mean Israfel, or are there more back stabbers in general than I imagined here?
Woof	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 3:34 PM Well, I know Israfel's point well... and it's a valid one, and worth addressing. This has been mentioned twice now in this thread, and hasn't been brought to the forefront yet. Maybe now is the time. I think that the reason there hasn't been a lot of discussion on this, is because, although very intelligent, our Israfel hasn't quite been able to express precicely what's been happening in terms that can be readily grasped by the community. Inserity doesn't quite say it. What does, is contained in a great line from the film The Contender: Napoleon once said when asked to explain the lack of great statesmen in the world, that "to get power you need to display absolute pettiness..." And that's what's been going on around here. Plays for power... and pettiness. What's truly disheartening, is that it's been working. And that makes DM a pretty ugly place to be sometimes. Someplace you'd rather look away from, than get involved in. A faction of our community has refused to give in to this. Another faction has supported it. Whether that's just folding under pressure, or naivete... I don't know. I will say that, as a result, a few people here have lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. And that was really ugly and disappointing to see happen, too. There. I've said it. I guess that means that I'll make a few peoples' s**tlist. But enough is enough.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 3:41 PM I was trying to provoke something FROM them with my remark, it has been overly quiet for some time up top, although what they do is not something I am involved in anymore. Zed, I think that's not quite what I meant by cutting down on the traffic, the idea was more to reduce bandwidth, hence costing the site less. It's been a loss maker I believe for as long as I can remember. Any cuts in the system from that side would benefit the site. I don't think I ever meant cutting the traffic in the sense you are coming across as saying (as that would ensure the site never actually develops the way we want it to) but there are a horrendous amount of accounts that are dead, dormant or just messed up. So much could be done to clean up and make things more efficient... You know, that comment made me feel like you were saying we were out to screw the site up to stop its development and I feel a tad miffed by that because the site's survival has been the only thing on my mind when it comes to those matters. Sure there were many disagreements over the new design but alienating vast swathes of members wasn't the intention at all. If that had been the case why would Tracy have tried getting people to help promote DMusic "on the street", for example? Speculation is all you/we have. I know more than I should know and that's no big shock but I'm not going to say anything - I know Larry isn't around much or at all and I know why. As for the others, I know bits and pieces as I'm sure others do too but the bottom line is the site has been in a sort of limbo for a while. I spoke of changes quite some time ago but even I am a little perplexed by the extremely slow turnaround... And it makes me wonder what's going on, just like everyone else. If DMusic got as big as the other sites, looking back at that remark, then we'd need serious sponsorship, a dedicated team of coders/moderators, plus some serious cash for new servers to handle all the music and streaming... Never mind the fact the site would HAVE to generate a shitload more money than it's ever done (or is doing right now) just so everyone could still have their free (multiple - sic) accounts, forums and whatever. It just doesn't seem to be doing that and it was like that long before the redesign... Personally I think this place, in business terms, could well be little more than a dead weight. That needs to change before we all lose out and it's not just the responsibility of the top brass, it's the responsibility of every dedicated member of this site.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 3:45 PM I tell you, if I won the bloody lottery tonight, I'd buy this place outright... But I doubt a lot of you would like the changes I would make... However, if it meant the site's survival, we'd all adapt.
Israfel	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 3:51 PM leeds, that is exactly the kind of insincerity I was referring to. And you know, I really don't know how I feel about the wanting to mure more legit users here. I mean, I can see where that would be a good thing but if this is all they get, what's the point? The thing is, and I have long felt this way about DM, is that we have a great community of artists here that could effect a positive change. Not just with forum posts and whatnot, but to really tap into what they know, how they know it and how they do it. I made the suggestion of a mentoring idea a long time ago... and it was shot down as too time consuming but it doesn't have to be quite as involved as people think it does. Think how great it would be if a newbie just starting out, say a guitarist, who could hook up with someone very experienced for some positive, constructive feedback on a song. Not a collab, that's not what I mean. I mean, they get connected through DM with say GeneHilber or Rhynes or whomever, and they can send them a song they are working on for tips on what to work on with their playing, or a better way to record or even a whole new perspective on interpreting the song. It would take two or three listens, back and forth and that's it. And it would be a more personal one to one connection and not just a random commnent from a random person on the site. It would help people grow in what they do and create a stronger, more cohesive community. The thing is, we could do this as general members of the site but what I don't get is why it couldn't be a feature of the site. Something to lure artists here who want that kind of thing. Getting back to the insincerity, I listen to the songs on my page. I have some that I think are good, I'll be honest, but I have some that I think could be better yet to look at the comments there you'd think I was the best thing ever! Does anyone of us really think there is not always room for a good, solid constructive input from someone else? I think there is and I think that we would all benefit from that. I know that I am surely a work in progress. And I know there are other artists here who feel the same way. To comment, not to comment, what to say in the comment...it's always been the double edged sword of the whole comment issue. But I do think that it oozes over into other areas of the site - into the forums, for sure, and into the general make up of the community. I fear we have become a just a warehouse of people posting songs for the handful of people who bother to take the time to listen and then we just get a kudo and the day rolls on. And what bothers me the most about this is that too look at the news page here, this appears to be a place that embraces and extolls the indie artist. Well, it may embrace them by letting them host their music here but it really does nothing to promote them outside of the square confines of this blue box. Perhaps that's where some effort needs to made but it can't be done just by the members. We're just so much yakkity yak and have no control over how any of this really happens.
Israfel	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 4:03 PM oh.. and there's a t in Hilbert sorry Gene. And yes, woof, thank you for making that point as well... there is other insincerity that should be addressed.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 5:11 PM Well certainly the news pages seem to be a summary of what's going on at boycott-riaa, which is fair enough as it is informative but it's not always representative of the Dmusic community at large. Secondly, we have situations where 'the site for independent musicians' is happy to promote releases from major labels, on accounts which are opened by some representative of an artist for the sole purpose of promotion, yet Dmusic members are not encouraged to use that avenue to promote their own independent CDs. And on the news pages we have Shmoo and co giving us the Winston Churchill 'we'll fight them on the beaches, we will never surrender' message just one click away from this.... leading one to suspect that either these major label muppets promoting their new CDs either made some financial contribution (which would go down a bomb with Shmoo and the boycott boys and gals !) or nobody is bothering to check / is apathetic or even just pathetic. I'm sure there are plenty of us who have ideas to contribute if we felt anyone at the top could care less to listen, even if much of this feedback was not financially or logistically possible, just to feel you have a voice and someone will listen, even if they can't affect much change is something. Heck, that's how the many thousands of shrinks make a decent living Israfel - I like your honesty. I know I have posted music which is not up to standard, either a poor song that is purely 'filler' material or badly arranged or engineered and where this is the case, I welcome constructive and objective comments. Preferably, with a why the listener feels that way and how they would change it if it were them, rather than 'this sucks' or 'bad choice of sounds' etc. But I suppose beggars can't be choosers. And if someone really did my music then fine but it's the constructive feedback that helps us to grow as an artist or an audio engineer/producer/composer etc. Even if I feel that the person should go and suck eggs for their comment
Jazzmary2U	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 10:06 AM all I gotta say is this: I am giving Dmusic the energy that it has given me this year.. not much. Meanwhile, I have discovered something new.. web 2.0... I used to put a lot of energy into Dmusic.. links on my website to the download page, blurbs on forums about Dmusic, talking and emailing friends, posting on my page, etc., not to mention considerable monetary investment in what they offer here. But, frankly, this site has become stagnant.. I can now offer slideshows, my own little music store that I control, and all kinds of neat video widgets on my site.. web 2.0 ... I can be gone for weeks and have absolutely no traffic whatsoever here on my page, the same dozen people posting about the same old issues, and no progress in interactivity..you look at the artist online page and you see what? twelve folks.. come on, now!.. other than the cool emoticons, there is not much to interest me here anymore.. WEB 2.0 that makes Dmusic somewhat of a dinosaur.. wake up and smell the tarpit, dudes!
officernarc	Date: October 29, 2007 @ 12:49 PM never use the phrase "web 2.0" again.
TameasDust	Date: October 29, 2007 @ 12:57 PM I never argue cause I am ALWAYS right and you are *ALWAYS AND FOREVER WRONG* so there
jack	Date: October 29, 2007 @ 11:24 PM The reason for all this is simple. We have very, very limited resources in terms of manpower. The coding team is all of one person large, not including Tracy who does do a lot of work on the site but doesn't tend to poke around under the hood (and I don't blame her!). Management, I have no idea about, but I would guess two people. There are maybe four staff in total.
Woof	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:24 AM I really don't think it's a resources issue... I know people balmed the redesign for loss of traffic for quite a while, which made a convenient scapegoat, but heck... I've seen sites that had a lot less going for them get a lot more traffic. So that rules that one out right there. People get involved in communities that interest them. It's really that simple. Communities that fill a need get thousands of hits. So if our vision here is a little skewed, I'd think that it's because we've been so focused on what DM can get us, that we've lost a lot of perspective on what it can offer the public. We all feel that we're giving a lot by giving our music... however we do not have the necessary objectivity to be the best judge of how valuable that is. There are literally thousands of new independent artists coming online every month, all over the web. That's a lot of people to get buried under. That's certainly not meant to underrate the artists here. I've been a Halaka fan for years, I love how Israfel is constantly experimenting with new approaches and ideas, and I've recently gotten heavily into Fra's work, which is a breath of fresh air in a world of commercialized crap. What we do have to look at, though, is how the public views us, instead of how we view each other. That's tunnel vision, and we'll never get anywhere if we just go around telling each other how appreciated we are. We need to think about what the public is hungry for... in news items, in image, and in discussions here on the BBS... and offer that. It's not rocket science. People want friends, they want love and support, they want a community that they can be involved in and welcomed into. They want interaction and activity. What they don't want, is to be descended upon like fresh meat, the minute they arrive, with petitions from the artists for listens and comments. It makes us look desperate, and it obligates them. We make music. Many people make really good music. But first and foremost, we are human beings with a need for friendship, understanding, and compassion. That's something we shouldn't forget. When I was in my 20's, the running joke between me and the guys I hung out with, was when we'd meet someone new, we'd go: "We're in a band. Aren't you impressed?". We're people first, and artists second. If we behave like good people, we'll make friends. Some of them might even listen to, or comment on, our songs.
Woof	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:25 AM PS. "balmed"? Geez...
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:41 AM How do people know we're good people when the majority of people stopping by are just uploading junk copyrighted mp3 files or signing up accounts which they leave dormant for years. I agree with what you're saying but if we don't self promote then the message that we can be friends and there is good music to listen to here isn't getting heard. I don't think that too many of us go spamming newbies for comments and the debates about leaving comments, while revisited on an infrequent basis, is not too prolific. Another thing is that newbies who do upload music and then post a promotion about it, most of these get no replies and very few listens. We could make more friends by trying to listen and give objective and constructive feedback (none of the 'it sucks' or 'bad, noisy recording' etc), but I feel many newbies get discouraged and the cynic in us thinks, Oh Great... Another F***ing newbie chasing a comment and we just switch off to it. The problem with constructive feedback though, as Israfel already mentioned, is that a large % of people don't want to hear it, they just want the kudos. But maybe we can allow the newbies one free shot before we really say what we feel about their music. I just don't know anymore, it's a frustrating situation and any initiatives we provide need to be acknowledged and accepted and implemented where possible by those running the show if they want this site to be successful. I am just pissing in to the wind and having it blow back in my face without that type of support. I give my sub money, I promote Dmusic on various other websites, including linking it to my own, I upload, I get involved in the community. I am not in the best health, have a wife on disability leave with some serious health concerns, work full time. I cannot do any more.
Opossum	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:44 AM On 30th Oct 2012, Woof said: PS. "balmed"? Geez... I don't mind being balmed if my lips really need it...
Woof	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 2:13 AM Very true, Opossum! Leeds, you have raised a great point, and it ties in very nicely with Israfel's thoughts as well. There IS a graceful way to handle this. Make it a policy not to comment on anybody's work, until you get to know them as people first. There are plenty of people here whose music I haven't commented on, who I've gotten to know as people. And that's been pretty cool. By making DM all about the comments, we're making our home here cold, impersonal, and all business... the business of promotion. And that's exactly why I've been saying the things I have. It's okay not to comment. We can just... talk. What's wrong with that? And if anybody resents that you've befriended them, but not commented, well then if all they're after is comments, they wouldn't be worth much as a friend anyway... even if their music kicks a**. Which is like... if I want impersonal material made by people I'll never get to know, I can get RIAA stuff. This is our edge.
zedsalt	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 10:48 AM "Make it a policy not to comment on anybody's work, until you get to know them as people first."?!? See, here's what's wrong with that: I like music. I make it a point to try to check out every song I see a newbie promoting, and it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING "social" or even "e-social" or whatever. I like music, and I like music that is new and different. Everybody who I consider a "DMusic friend" of mine either started relating to me through Comments, was a friend of mine before I joined, or is Gene Hilbert. Gene was the first person who "talked" to me at DMusic. He told me I was going about things all wrong and suggested there's probably something inherently wrong with me that led to my error. This started a long, satisfying argumentative discourse, and somewhere along the way, I found out that he's a talented musician. This seems weird and backwards to me, because, as I may have mentioned, I like music. Some of the most miserable excuses for humanity whose presence I've had to endure are also among the best musicians I've ever worked with. And I'd still be working with every one of these borderline unbearable $%&^#*s if I could, because I like music. I'm here to hear and be heard. If friendships blossom from that, well, that's beautiful and quite a bonus, but it will never be the reason I'm here. I'm here because I like music.
kingo	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 11:18 AM Here's some more fuel for the fire. Well, first, let's preamble -- I hate myspace. I HATE MYSPACE. Woof said "I've seen sites that had a lot less going for them get a lot more traffic." That's MySpace. MySpace, as has been commented on before, is horrible in terms of layout, design, etc. There's certainly something to be said for giving artists control of the way their page looks, which myspace does; but really that place is not a good place to host music if you're just considering how your music IS there. But everyone's there. Why? Because everyone's there. I think (though i could be wrong) that the "everyone" who's there started with just people. Not necessarily musicians -- just people socializing. (Which is still what it's mostly about, I think.) I surmise that there are so many musicians there now because there are so many people there to listen. Not that they DO listen automatically, but they're there, and certainly it's easier to get them to listen to music that's there than to go there and get them to listen to music here (we all know what happens when a musician comes here and tries linking to his or her music somewhere else...) We don't want to be MySpace, that's clear. But it wouldn't hurt for us to get something anywhere near the number of participating artists that they have. Get that many artists and you get more paid subscriptions. But to get the artists you need to get the people here. The people come and the buzz comes. So what kind of things can just LISTENERS and TALKERS and PEOPLE do here? What about the user profile pages and user pages is unique? How can we promote that?
moam	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:16 PM On 30th Oct 2012, Woof said: Make it a policy not to comment on anybody's work, until you get to know them as people first. I'm sorry, but I disagree with this concept 100% The reason I signed up for this site a LONG ass time ago was because it was an active site full of good music. To me, this place should be a lot more about the music and less about "making friends". If I was REQUIRED to get to know someone on here before leaving a comment, I would NEVER leave comments on any new shit, because that just doesn't interest me! My purpose here isn't to make a bunch of friends and throw around a bunch of lame emoticons...it's about growing as an artist. The one "rule" that should be made with this stuff is just have it a requirement to make the criticism constructive, if criticism is needed. Seriously, there's nothing worse than making an artist who obviously has a LONG way to go feel like he's a fucking music king, and I've noticed that's something we do A LOT here. Hell, I was guilty of that, but now I've started to write what I ACTUALLY think, only in constructive ways...ways that will help people. Seriously people, if you can't take criticism...forget the whole "growing" part of being an artist because in your own mind, you are already the best musician in the damn world! If you cannot take criticism, you have NO business putting your music online, simple as that. Shit, I've taken some brutal criticism in my time...my vocals are garbage, I sound like a ____ (think of any dying animal), I need a new singer... Though none of that is even constructive, but still, use that negative shit to rethink your music and to improve your sound. Being an artist should be all about improvement!!! Through some of these comments I have read, you would think that these artists should be signed...should be famous, should be worshiped! The brutal truth is, the only place many of us get worshiped is on this site. My point is, criticism shouldn't be taken as a negative thing. If there was a new artist and I listened to a few of this person's tracks, and I had some good thoughts to share as far as improving and growing, I would want to share it with the artist...help the artist. I don't want to get to know him/her as a person first...this site should have music as its main priority.
officernarc	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:20 PM i think that myspace works for bands because it's primarily designed as a social networking tool. it's easy to use, it's accessible to the general public, and most importantly, it's free. oh sure, you can only put four or five songs up at once, and yeah, the streaming quality is pretty shitty, but when you see how easily you can access people and bands from your local area with similar likes and dislikes as you, it's kind of hard to compete with. on top of that, if you're into that sort of thing, you can even customize your myspace page to give it the appearance of being an almost legitimate band website. so fine, you don't want to be myspace? that's cool. but as long as dmusic refuses to appeal to anything but the niche crowd of long-time users, i really don't see much in the way of growth happening.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 5:16 PM On 30th Oct 2012, kingo said: ... The people come and the buzz comes. That would be the free weed I was handing out at the door...
K3VIN	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 5:34 PM where the fuck was this door and me
TameasDust	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 11:40 AM I got the Salt Shaker of DOOM once ... forget what for though Immature ... of course we are ... maturity is for grownups ... I am lookin for someone to change my diaper
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 5:19 PM It wasn't the door marked "Restroom" You'd have known if you were in the wrong one, George Michael would've tried to sex you up and Tameas would've been blowing the cubicle doors off with his gigantic farts.
jack	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 10:53 PM On 29th Oct 2012, jack said: The reason for all this is simple. We have very, very limited resources in terms of manpower. The coding team is all of one person large, not including Tracy who does do a lot of work on the site but doesn't tend to poke around under the hood (and I don't blame her!). Management, I have no idea about, but I would guess two people. There are maybe four staff in total. I should clarify I was talking about the fact we're not all fancy and shiny like some other sites. The site has so much potential, it makes me sad to see it wasted sometimes due to resources. Viva la DM, I suppose. Here's to future.
jack	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 10:54 PM On 31st Oct 2012, jack said: [QUOTE info=jack,October 29, 2007 @ 11:24 PM] The reason for all this is simple. We have very, very limited resources in terms of manpower. The coding team is all of one person large, not including Tracy who does do a lot of work on the site but doesn't tend to poke around under the hood (and I don't blame her!). Management, I have no idea about, but I would guess two people. There are maybe four staff in total. I should clarify I was talking about the fact we're not all fancy and shiny like some other sites. The site has so much potential, it makes me sad to see it wasted sometimes due to resources. Viva la DM, I suppose. Here's to future. [/QUOTE] .. that does it. I'm adding an edit function.
jack	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 10:54 PM .. and a proper quoting function too.
SillyMoam	Date: October 31, 2007 @ 10:58 PM On 29th Oct 2012, jack said: .. that does it. I'm adding an edit function.
Woof	Date: November 1, 2007 @ 12:00 AM I wouldn't sweat it, Jack. Over the last couple of years, I've had to analyze website development features for a living. The best site I've ever seen, by far, can be found at: http://www.oilily-world.com/ After poking around all of its' truly brilliantly designed features and navigation... let's just say that most everything else on the web looks rather pedestrian. As for Kingo's comment on MySpace, I received heartbreaking email last week from them: "You have not logged into MySpace since January 1, 2007. That makes us sad!" And sheesh! Tom, my one and only friend there... I kept thinking that I'd hurt him deeply. I almost cried. His little smiling avatar was there for me all this time, and I felt like I'd betrayed him and the whole community... So, of course, I dutifully logged in and went immediately to the forums there to apologize for being so awfully inconsiderate, in the hope of cheering up the despondent community. What I saw on the forums reminded me of those seemingly endless nights when I first began experimenting with ICQ: The first post would be a sentence, the reply would be a sentence... and so on ad infinitum. Like Instant Messenger... without the "Instant". And I couldn't bring myself to write anything. I just logged out. I should just shoot myself.
kingo	Date: November 1, 2007 @ 11:43 AM

Previous 100

Page: [ 1 2 ]

~~Next 100~~

Post A Reply
From:	Guest	(Icons - Linking)
Post: