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Psipher	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:04 AM i am a little concerned that alot of artists are copying others, as an example i heard a track by jff the other day and he had used the same 2 chords (e and f) in one of his songs that i used in my own! as i know and have worked with jff in the past this isnt so much of an issue, but... there are other artists out there that have also used these same 2 chords in songs! surely there must be some kind of law to stop this... im disgusted that artists will steal parts from other artists work without even giving it a second though.. you know who you are, i hope you are happy!
Psipher	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:20 AM its not like there arent other combinations, such as e and g or e and h! i can understand that theres only so many chords but this has got to stop!
Jennae	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:26 AM I agree psniffher~ just the other day I head a track with a C G and D progression I couldn't believe it, blantent copyright infringement!!!! and to top it off it was in 4/4 timing just like My song now that is going too far!
Psipher	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:35 AM its not on, i wonder if its possible to copyright certain chord sequences, its even going on with signed artist, take green day - time of your life and ronan keaton - when you say nothing at all, same 3 chords on 2 well known songs! its so blatently obvious theres an issue that im suprised something hasnt been done already! im not saying single chords should be copyrighted, i once saw metallica tried to copyright the chord of E and failed, but 2 chords next to each other... theres no need! and the same timing too! 4/4 is very popular but there are aso many ways you can have the pattern so its not quite as bad! but i understand how u feel, same 3 chords huh, and same timing, that is taking the biscuit!
babykilla1	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 1:00 PM Copyright of chord sequences has been tried before and of course laughed out of court. If I remember, it was metallica who tried to copyright a sequence of chords and wanted to be paid anytime another artist used them. What crock.
RyanS	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 1:25 PM Just goes to show you how much of a sell-out Metallica is. Friggin lamers...
milladrive	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 2:08 PM Without trying to sound dismissive, I think this is kinda silly to even think about. Almost as silly as beat or rhythm stealing. I'm not surprised chord progression lawsuits have been laughed away. Much of the early rock era surrounded C-G-F. Later, a good amount of great music was based on E-A-B. Thank goodness chord progressions can't be copyrighted! It's when the melody has been lifted that the courts will perhaps entertain the challenge, and even then it's pretty hit or miss (so to speak). There are a ton of "copycat" songs out there that lift part of the melody or lyrics of another hit. It's a bottomless pit of a subject. Here's just a few: Green Day's "Brain Stew" ... Chicago's "25 Or 6 To 4." Joe Jackson's "Breaking Us In Two" ... Badfinger's "Day After Day." Joe Jackson's "Memphis" ... Spencer Davis Group's "Gimme Some Lovin'." Ocean's "Put Your Hand In The Hand" ... Don Shirley's "Water Boy." Buddy Holly's "Not Fade Away" ... Bo Diddley's "Bo Diddley." The Eagles' "The Greeks Don't Want No Freaks" ... The Beatles' "Birthday." The Eagles "The Long Run" ... It's just Otis Clay's "Tryin' To Live My Life Without You" with different words. Bob Seger's "adaptation" of Frankie Miller's "Ain't Got No Money." Air Supply's "Even the Nights Are Better" ... Christopher Cross' "Arthur's Theme (The Best That You Can Do)." (songwriter Burt Bacharach once said in an interview he considered suing them for using the melody to his hit, particularly on the phrase "the best that you can do." On the other hand, Burt's own 1958 hit "The Blob" featured a sax solo lifted almost note-for-note from Bill Justis' 1957 Top 5 instrumental hit "Raunchy.") Beach Boys' "Surfin' USA" ... Chuck Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen." (A direct lift with a mere change of lyrics. They got sued and eventually had to share royalties and songwriting credits.) George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" ... The Chiffons' "He's So Fine." (Harrison was found guilty of "unconscious plagiarism.") Michael Bolton - "Love is a Wonderful Thing." Bolton got sued big-time on this by The Isley Brothers, who wrote an identically-titled (but very different) song. While I don't think those songs are all that close -- even tho Bolton eventually lost, to the tune of millions of dollars -- his song is very close to that of Marvin Gaye's 1969 Top 5 r&b hit, "Too Busy Thinking About My Baby." Johnny Bristol's "Hang On In There Baby" ... a melody that's uncannily similar to Barry White's 1973 soul hit "Never Never Gonna Give You Up," complete with occasional narration and "mmm's." Dino, Desi & Billy's "I'm a Fool" is note-for-note, the same song as "Louie Louie." (And even that is arguably borrowed or influenced by a dozen other r&b songs.) I have always been struck by the similarities of the line in the chorus of the Drifters' "I Count The Tears: "Nah nah nah nah nah, late at night" and the line in the chorus of the Grass Roots' "Let's Live For Today: "Nah nah nah nah nah, live for today." Cutting Crew's "I've Been in Love Before" ... Is it just me, or does part of this chorus sound just like Bob Welch's "Sentimental Lady"? And a lot of singer/songwriters rip off _themselves_. Is there much difference between Neil Diamond's "Forever In Blue Jeans" or "Yesterday's Songs"? Naaaah. I could go on almost forever. There're hundreds upon hundreds of songs like this. Wanna think about all the classical "renderings" and adaptations? And don't even get me started about white rock groups that "ripped off" old r&b and blues songs from the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. (Led Zeppelin in particular.)
pog	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:29 PM If there's 12 potential major chords in the western system, then Im not surprised you've both written a 4/4 song with the same chords. I wrote a song with 2 major chords and a minor chord once, only to have exactly the same progression released in a tlc song within what felt like only a few hours after writing the toon.
JFF	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 4:45 PM I'm gonna make up some new chords so that I don't have to steal any more of psiphers but at least those chords sounded better in my tunes u biatch sidenote: Psipher should not be allowed on DM 2morra as he has 2 many PC's to build.
sinai	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 5:42 PM i gotta agree whole heartedly with Milla there, and not juss coz he ripped into Led Zeppelin
CrAzYj	Date: October 23, 2003 @ 7:18 PM Oh leave Led Zeppelin alone... Those guys did a lot of cool stuff. Just because they were trying to reach an audience with tunnel eardrums... tuned only to one style... At least when they "emulated" another artist they tried to give it an original twist. They didn't blatantly go out and play in a "cover" band and get paid for being a "tribute" band. They also actually played an instrument, unlike so many of the digital stars of today who do nothing but cut and paste a bunch of samples... This whole discussion was supposed to be humorous (at least I thought so). It's funny that people took it seriously.
Psipher	Date: October 24, 2003 @ 7:48 AM crazy j has hit it right on the head, i started this for a laugh to see how many ppl would take it serious, i even wrote about using chords e an H, erm... correct me but there is no chord of H! well, iv came close a few times but it sounds naff! i did only start it cos i was so suprised about what ppl will moan about! it is a funny topic tho! has sure gave me a laugh! as for led zep....are'nt they one of the most influencial bands of our time? what a great band they were too!
Bill43	Date: October 24, 2003 @ 2:08 PM I've just submitted my patent for standard tuning (Concert C) and every other tuning known to mankind. If anyone uses this, or any other tuning, they owe me royalties. MC/Visa not accepted. Send your $.01 checks to: Ima Gullible Person 555 Don't Even Think About It Ave. You'veBeenHad, Flori-Duh 99999 Thank You
sween	Date: October 26, 2003 @ 1:16 PM Its great that everyone can use the same chords, its when a song is BLATENTLY copied that I dont agree, and im sorry, but I somehow dont think that Green Day and Ronan Keaton can be blamed for this terrible violation. hahhaaaaa
sween	Date: October 26, 2003 @ 1:17 PM hahahaaaa but I can see where youre coming from hahahaa www.thesween.com
invocati	Date: October 26, 2003 @ 5:02 PM Some day in time all songs possible will already have been written.
princess-angry	Date: October 26, 2003 @ 5:30 PM I dont listen to rock much I'm a hip-hopper! Hip Hop is the shit man! I also like to get my grrove on with soem dance and electronic/techno tunes.
Psipher	Date: October 27, 2003 @ 8:41 AM dean (psipher) has just told me that he does actually sing in the key of H most of the time! he also said he didnt realise the song i had mentioned to be in e and f was in those chords! haha
robin101	Date: October 27, 2003 @ 9:24 AM It is said that every possible combination of notes have already been completed throughout the four periods of "traditional" music (Baroque, Classical...).It's probably true. I mean as long as you don't consciously rip-off someone elses song, your on the right track.
Jazzmary2U	Date: November 2, 2003 @ 1:01 PM .. don't forget the "holyghost" key!!
leflaw	Date: November 2, 2003 @ 2:31 PM Date: November 2, 2003 @ 2:29 PM ( delete ) Folks - this is a fantastic thread. It shows you how fucked up copyright is. I know a guy who played with Bob Marley, has written dozens of tracks, and uses mozart etudes as the basis. Total legal and proper. Why? 1. That is how great art is created, in case you didn't know. 2. Mozart is in the Public Domain, or was the last time I looked. Now the RIAA (and Disney) is trying to figure out how to take mozart out of the public domain, since Mozart is a key to much songwriting in the ensuing 300 years, but no one at the RIAA knows how to play piano!
alcoholicskunk	Date: November 2, 2003 @ 6:27 PM Isn't anything(books, music, film, etc) Public domain after 76 years(or around there) or has that changed?
babykilla1	Date: November 2, 2003 @ 6:41 PM This has been changed. Otherwise Mickey m ouse would be public domain, and that hasn't happened. The Sonny Bono copyright extension bill created a term of "the lifetime of the artist + 75 years afterwards" This translates to what could be 150 years or more!!! of copyright.
Psipher	Date: May 3, 2004 @ 7:16 AM not saw this for ages, im amazed at how many serious comments there are on something i wrote to extract the urine, although, alot of valid and good points tho.
sepidman	Date: May 3, 2004 @ 11:13 AM What Robin says is right on. There are only so many possible chord progressions possible, and anyone who has studied music will already know most anyway. Especially in popular music. What becomes important then would be the lead lyric)line. B
bastardo23	Date: May 6, 2004 @ 1:05 PM as milla pointed out, most of what is considered great in music has been fashioned somehow from the remnants, either conscious or unconscious, of music created before. zepplin, beatles, doors, etc. would have had to pay all them porch monkeys fees to steal there blues tunes, and where would we be today. let's just admit that we are creating something out of a limited number of pitch and rhythm possiblities. at a certain point we are all "standing on the shoulders of giants".
noimportante	Date: May 7, 2004 @ 12:04 AM Well there is no such thing as a copywrite on chords. Really lyrics are whats important in copywrite. Sometimes melodies do come into play, but really the person who writes the lyrics of the song is who gets the credit. Even if it sounds stupid, thats how it is. I posted a song today called forgiveness that my gitar player wrote. When he brought it to me the song was redundant, the verse chords were the same as the choros, and it had no life. I changed the chords of the song completely and rearranged it with the same lyrics, and it came out great (in my sight). But all in all I get no revenue or rights from this song even though it wouldve sucked without my input. I actually could get a arrangment rights, like a lot of producers do in the Business. But that would only be 2-4 cents out of the 8 cents do in royalties. (I dont really care, I just want the song to serve its purpose) MILLIdrive- I swear I thought I was the only one who noticed that about green day.. I am happy I am not alone..Thank you. (don't forget all the blues you ever heard was done before.) But really it doesnt matter, as a group if you use riffs that have been done before you place your band at the risk of being dissed. OUr song "Make things right" uses the same generic punk chords (duely noted) but it got the job done for what I was saying. really its my Ode to punk. The only punk sounding song on our cd. My POint is, if someone used your chords, fuck it. You must have done something right if they thought it was good enough to use it. Don't stress it dude, this should inspire you to write more complicated stuff that people cant duplicate. (good luck)....
SplitIndecision	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 3:32 AM Songs are entities of bass lines, drums, chords, and melodies. To say that any chord progression can be copyrighted is insane, even drum tracks are nearly impossible to copyright. Bass lines on the other hand, have duly been noted (vanilla ice stole queens, got sued and lost) if he would have received permission from queen he would still be broke. When a song makes it big, worry about it, but it your playing in garages and bars, dont even deal with it, like noimportante said this should inspire you to write more complicated stuff that people cant duplicate. (good luck)....
AngelfckDevi...	Date: August 11, 2004 @ 12:55 PM Music Copyright lawsuits are hard to argue. Chord sequences, progressions, even simple riffs are public domain and cant be copyrighted because the are considered too common. Even a four bar riff can be ripped-off if the tempo and style are changed enough. If any one wants more info check out anything by Dr. Lawrence Ferrara, he basically wrote the book on copyright law. And while were on the subject. Can anyone give me a blatant rip-off that hasn't been taken to court yet? I have to write a paper and make a case for copyright infringement and I cant find anything easy enough to analyze. please help.
AngelfckDevi...	Date: August 11, 2004 @ 12:59 PM Music Copyright lawsuits are hard to argue. Chord sequences, progressions, even simple riffs are public domain and cant be copyrighted because the are considered too common. Even a four bar riff can be ripped-off if the tempo and style are changed enough. If any one wants more info check out anything by Dr. Lawrence Ferrara, he basically wrote the book on copyright law. And while were on the subject. Can anyone give me a blatant rip-off that hasn't been taken to court yet? I have to write a paper and make a case for copyright infringement and I cant find anything easy enough to analyze. please help.
stevelester	Date: August 11, 2004 @ 4:04 PM Wow, I need a nap after reading all of this... haha

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