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Self streeeeeeeeeeeaming.....!!!

withering	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 7:43 PM Okay... Every time I stop by the Matrix, approx. 10-30% of the list are people streaming their own songs... And logged off users aren't listed there, so the numbers might be any higher. C'mon! I know this has been discussed over and over and over again, but isn't it time to do something about it? Bandwidth costs ! No wonder DMusic barely survives... And what of all the new users that come to DMusic, find that the amount of talent/diversity here must be approximately non-existing since one person (okay, two now) holds the entire Top20 chart, then turns around and heads for another music site instead? Please, put something like this in the usage policy; Any attempt to manipulate the charts by self-streaming will result in thy head being chewn off and spit out of DM by our ravenous (fu-?) dog. Or maybe remove the charts completely so people have no incentive to stream themselves to death. Or make only registered users count, and log them so they are max. counted once a day?
withering	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 7:51 PM (This was, in case one would be tempted to think otherwise, a very non-constructively angled attempt to start a constructive discussion about the whole idea of song browseability at DMusic, e.g. Why is there a Top20 chart?, Why does it work this way?, and Could it be done some other way? )
CrescentShadow	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 8:09 PM I totally wholeheartedly agree. Another complaint that sorta goes along with this is that pretty much all of the metal DM pick top 20's except victorskull DONT interact at ALL! there is NO way they could have other dmusic users listening to their music to keep it up in the top 20.. the charts should be redone, or something should be done.
Maffmatix	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 8:14 PM This is a hot muthaf*ckin topic. I agree.
leflaw	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 10:24 PM Me too. TELL FU-DOG LOUDER!!!
Cryxan	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 10:30 PM I think I remember fu-dog saying somewhere that self-streams no longer add to the stats that determine the Top 20 or chart positions, though I don't remember the exact details... either way, he's going to rebuild the charts comletely. I think the only annoyance is that chronic self-streamers blank out the other interactions in the Recent Site Interations chart. One thing that might actually discourage it is if the red artist stats don't change when a stream or dl link is clicked by member of that band. If the numbers keep going up, it makes people think that it's working.
leflaw	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 10:33 PM Dumb thought. I actually like listening to my own music. Not necesssarily a sin or scamming.
Cryxan	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 10:50 PM Well, it's been discussed at length... I think people don't have an issue with artists listening to their own music. It's when there's 20 streams within 10 seconds that makes people start complaint threads.
OvErSeXeD	Date: December 20, 2003 @ 11:26 PM somethings are good in abundance.
GeneHilbert	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 2:44 AM There is and has been abuse & there have been many discussions on this issue...... Questions; Does it really matter? Does it increase overhead? Is it misleading? Is it bias? Is it fair play? As well, If there was no importance applied or given to the charts - but instead just a random sampling with no numerical significance (no numbers) of tunes played. And state this very fact as title "Random Samplings Of Dumsic Artist" (or something to that effect). Then all or most motivation to self-stream would cease to matter.
Rodrica	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 6:57 AM Charts!!!??!!
withering	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 7:32 AM lef: We're all sinners, aint we? The reason for my rant; last night the site was horrendously slow. By coincidence I went by the Matrix, and saw one artist literally streaming himself to death (like in several hits per seconds). Now I don't think these things were correlated, but it kind of brought my mind to how much useless requests like this have to cost DMusic in bandwidth ? And I think that any site that encourages this kind of behaviour, as in not actively discouraging, are asking for more trouble than necessary. I think as a least measure, hide the Top20 list from the front page, to make it a more obscure feature only for the interested? Only problem, it has to be replaced by something else. I kind of find the idea of humanly selected features/recommendations work better, at least they are less prone to tampering. Any ideas? I very much liked Gene's idea, but think it would be even better if the songs were randomly selected from a playlist that had been manually compiled by an authoritive person in each genre, to ensure a certain level of quality.
PaBlikMM	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 8:30 AM "Selfstreamers" will never know if they are good ¨cos of the music or ´cos of the selfstreaming ...
BenRebel	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 10:43 AM HEY ! WAKE UP !!!!! did that work? DM picks is a waste of Real Estate whatdo you think about logic that will randomly pick and artist and feature 4 songs .. or how a random box that puts up and artist songs and all of dm comments on it ?" id="75203">I do not think a person listening to there own music is bad (hey I like listening to myself ) there are some bogas lists in the top 20 and the DM picks I just think someone fell asleep hehehe (HEY ! WAKE UP !!!!! did that work? DM picks is a waste of Real Estate whatdo you think about logic that will randomly pick and artist and feature 4 songs .. or how a random box that puts up and artist songs and all of dm comments on it ?
Lcrowley	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 3:48 PM I seem to remember readin ghtat FU-dog was working on the chart system as well ..
Distilled1	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 4:58 PM Having a listen to your own music is no crime but I see the same thing in the matrix and it always seems to coincide with the very slow page loads and such. I haven't been here long enough to even care about the charts as I would rather interact and gain insight on my music from others through the comments altough if I was getting in the charts or the DM picks I would'nt mind and I certinly may streem each of my tracks once a day to keep it there but running a 56k modem theres no way I would try to over play (cept the great tunes I find out there that I can't get enough of my own stuff is all on CD if I want to hear my own stuff to death! I'd hate to see the charts go. Isn't there a script that can stop the counts after one full streem? just my
sinai	Date: December 21, 2003 @ 10:21 PM dun't really worry much about it myself
Slurgi	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:26 AM Cant people just listen to music from their harddrives instead of streaming it...? Thats what i do shrug
babykilla1	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 12:53 AM self streaming shouldnt count for you "points" or whatever, and shouldnt work on the charts. I like to self-stream sometimes to either listen to it from another computer, or check if its working. You shouldnt be barred from listening to ur own music, but it shouldnt count for the charts if ur listening urself.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 5:00 AM remove points, hit counts and and matrix readouts for users streaming a band they are connected to... ... you then leave the issue open to continue with different methods, more users, then really IP monitoring comes into it. self streaming needs to be stemmed, if doing so is going to make that much difference. if self streaming has no benefits, ppl will do less of it eventually.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 5:02 AM and you know full well the nightmare of IP monitoring non-static connections
Jennae	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 5:02 AM this is already under construction and MIND you Fu-dog has every area under control.. it's going to solve everyones issues coming soon!!
rapidhopeloss	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:24 AM Bear in mind that if you stream once, then 20 non-registered users stream you, then it comes up as a self-stream. I often have non-DMers listen to my music, so that'll come up as self streaming when it's not.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 7:19 AM are you saying that others can stream music and it results in the artist appearing to stream his own???? how so?
Distilled1	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 4:40 PM also so a non registerd listen counts as a listen by the artist? that dosen't seem right
fu-dog	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 5:37 PM The charts will soon be altered. Decent data collection, as seen in the new "stats" link next to each song in an artist's file manager, to aggregate true listens only started being collected one week ago. When a few more weeks of data have accumulated and when i have some time to put into this the charts will be rebuilt. Also, i still need to write a true "browser." When done, this will replace the charts as the defacto method of searching genres. It'll have real paging instead of the "next 20" link and it'll allow sorting by artist name, track name, and date uploaded (among other methods). --- A bit more on future charting for the interested: The new interim chart system will be based on "full listens" of tracks as we now record the length of listen of every song streamed and downloaded. Further down the line the charts will take into account the number of comments on a song, the number of unique votes on a song (only postive/thumbs-up votes will count), and any other interesting methods that come up as representations of popularity.
BenRebel	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:35 PM fu are you doing this in XML?
BenRebel	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 6:36 PM xml and xsl
Jazzmary2U	Date: December 22, 2003 @ 11:37 PM Thanks, Fu.. You da MAN.. or the as it were..
fu-dog	Date: December 23, 2003 @ 12:24 AM No, BenRebel, there's no XSL on the site yet. Haven't had the time. Why?
mushman	Date: December 28, 2003 @ 9:09 PM agreed that self streeming sucks they should make it that they moditer poeple that do that and block there song form ever entering the top 20 i think thats better cause i cant sress how much fishkill sucks and its such a bad name fisk would be cooler: well the only thing is that we should be alould to hear are junk at most3 times i think you know some times you send it to some one you know crap like that