smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 12:30 PM
it really pisses me off that you have to have a drum machine and some lyrics to get any attention on this site. it should be manditory to make a certain amount of reviews a month. To keep this site real. It doesn't help the masses. What about the guy who puts more than one talented musician together? Too much praise for the one man art form (hip-hop) and not enough attention to honest days work. DM should step up to the plate and get their shit together. Hip Hop needs its own site section what ever. they don't really listen to anything else. So tell me how is this community going to help me? www.bedouin.dmusic.com
thedarkaeons
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 12:37 PM
I listen to Industrial, Stoner Rock, Trip-Hop, DnB, Death and Gothic Metal.
As for how this community is going to help you, I don't know - I didn't know it was required to help you. I didn't see any clause in the agreement about that when I signed up. Maybe you actually signed up for a different site and you've confused it with this one.
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 12:46 PM
why you mad doggie??
Maffmatix
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 2:05 PM
Smooka you're just another hater. Hip hop DOES have it's own section "or whatever". you're callin hip-hop NON-HONEST days work? Maybe some hiphop, but not for those work hard on it.
go take your pissy comments and put them someplace where they will never be heard again.
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 2:14 PM
listen boner I don't knock the hip hop. It takes only one talented person to pull it off, not 5 6 guys who work together. I could write hip hop till the cows come home.
Pro tools loop is a amazing feature.
However any artist can theres no diss.
I would like to see more involvement from these hip hop artist, in other regions like blues or jazz. You guys all sample the shit, why not take some time and spread the love.
3rd verse in my song Ordinary is for you Boner,
Its a little hip hop flavor 4 ya. can you handle it?
mawcs
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 2:14 PM
I'm not a big fan of rap/hip-hop BUT I certainly enjoy the comments and ideas that I read from those artists and would be disappointed to see them on another site.
Incidentally, I believe solo work is "harder" than team work. You have to think harder and be more creative than when you can get ideas from others.
mawcs
johnnygnote
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 2:51 PM
Jesuszilla
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 2:54 PM
Hehe, I tried doing a hip-hop song for a collab but it was a bit poop!
I think it's funny, though, when people think a certain genre is really easy to make because normally when they try it it ends up sounding crap. Like the people who think all Electronic music is made with the push of a button, or done in one of those EJay programs. They think if they use whatever program to make something it'll instantly be better than any Electronic artist's work, 'cause it takes no skill, right?
djfacemachine
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:03 PM
WHO THE CRAP IS THIS GUY?!
robbydadrummer
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:16 PM
I'm not at all into Rap/Hip-Hop thing... I need the vibe of real musicianship. Drum machines and samples are weak cop-outs to me. And non-instrumental music needs (key phrase here ») vocalists who can actually SING, not rapping or growling "cookie monster" vocals. I'm very fortunate to be jamming with 2 other guys that have the same musical vibes and philosophies as myself. The fact we have pulled off so many instrumental jams, COMPLETELY SPONTANEOUSLY (ie: nothing is pre-arranged other than the starting key... it just happens!), is totally amazing to me. Rap artists may have some great lyrical content (well, some of them...), but how many can create music that is for the sake of THE MUSIC, standing on it's own without vocals? Very few. And TRANCE doesn't count, either. As I said, I need REAL musicianship... and pure instrumentalists are rare to find.
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:17 PM
I believe solo work is "harder" than team work. You have to think harder and be more creative than when you can get ideas from others.
I do work with others and I will tell you a Jam session is Much easier than me sitting in from of the "keyboard" and working on a track
I would have the arrange all the parts and then play them all in and then edit it to give it the right Hip Hop Flavor its not as easy as it sounds tracks can range from the simple BOOM BAP to full arranged pieces and trust me I simple track is MUCH arder to create and make sound HOT then a fully arranged piece" id="87507">Too much praise for the one man art form (hip-hop) and not enough attention to honest days work.
Wow is all I can say..
hmmmm so the fact that I can play means nothing? or the fact that that some(hiphop songs)have double scale players on them..
I love Jazz ( seen Brain and Koz last week at the beacon!! they Rocked !!)
I'm also talking with some players and Vocalist from India for a hip hop project I'm working on..
And MAWCS said it best :"I believe solo work is "harder" than team work. You have to think harder and be more creative than when you can get ideas from others.
I do work with others and I will tell you a Jam session is Much easier than me sitting in from of the "keyboard" and working on a track
I would have the arrange all the parts and then play them all in and then edit it to give it the right Hip Hop Flavor its not as easy as it sounds tracks can range from the simple BOOM BAP to full arranged pieces and trust me I simple track is MUCH arder to create and make sound HOT then a fully arranged piece
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:22 PM
I hate typing on a laptop with this touch pad m ouse &%#@@ it cuts my lines off and makes its own %^&$$#@ sentences
sorry every one
Maffmatix
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:26 PM
Smooke I don't know you, but from what I've seen from you so far I'd say you suck as a person. TEEHEE.
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:31 PM
Oh and I worked with this guy from the UK on some trance and then some Rave stuff for a holland label there is logic to the arrangement and I must say he was a great keyboardist
Distilled1
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:54 PM
I found that if you just go around and listen and make coments and post non hate threads you'll get noticed little by little, but pissing off 1/2 of the communitie wont do it.
I mean you just got active and are real new at DMusic give it a chance I bet you'll become adicted
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:54 PM
I wish we did have your battle forum boner, you wouldn't like me even more. I'm not here to be your friend teehee.
I'm here to rock you and others. Frankley I'm concerneced about you thinking about me like that.
Keep up the hate, you are really good at it!
much love
Bedouin.dmusic.com
Distilled1
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 3:55 PM
and mawcs ben rebel
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 4:01 PM
You guys miss the fact about one person responsibilty.
One guy/girl makes a song what ever genre. they only have to get themselves to create the magick. A group needs to have that extra element, teamwork.
Not that a person deal isn't talented.
The thought was where is the love for the group efforts.
The market is saturated with single action players.
Time to man up!
bedouin.dmusic.com
Maffmatix
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 4:31 PM
Funny how smooka comes and hates, so when people respond with hate, he tries to play mr. innocent and points his little finger at them. Isn't it goofey?
Anyways- smooka, about the battle forum thing... you've already dug your own grave... walk away from it, don't jump in!
Distilled1
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 4:34 PM
man I stay away from that battle forum i don't need a new a$$ hole
winterchylde
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 4:51 PM
smooka
The DMUSIC community can offer advice on technical problems, future purchases, recording techniques, songwriting, etc. Most of the DMUSIC people will not comment on your music, even if you comment on theirs. They just don't care. So, set your expectations low in that regard. However, the forums stay fairly active, even though the common post isn't worth reading, in my opinion.
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 5:13 PM
is it time to man up ... or learn how to do more
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 5:18 PM
hey boner you gona pop a cap in me?
Where you from Idaho?
Take your Viagra and represent son.
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 5:20 PM
why did you make this thread??? and why you mad doggie???
Jazzmary2U
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 5:22 PM
.. his opinion.. whatever.. keep all you posters..
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 5:29 PM
yea i think he mad
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:06 PM
well it maybe the best way to get someone to post on one of his threads if that was his goal it worked
now let me see him do a thread called:
I'm smooka talk to me and if he gets posts then I would be impressed
Veracohr
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:08 PM
are a hater.
But then again, what does my opinion count for? I make music on my own, therefore I'm not worthy of speaking with such lofty persons as yourself, am I? :P
If you decide to stick around, you will soon see that we are a diverse website in which people interested in diverse music styles actually get along. What I perceive of your attitude in this matter is not uncommon among rock musicians--the attitude that someone who makes music on newer technology (ie. synthesizers and MIDI sequencing) aren't 'real' musicians.
Read Acumen's post in this thread: http://www.dmusic.com/forum/music/7786" id="87552">Fork you, spoon!
"Honest day's work." That's such a ridiculous phrase, and completely doesn't apply to music.
I don't know where you get the impression that only hip hop gets attention on this site. There happens to be more hip hop artists than any other genre, and therefore there might be a larger number of hip hop fans, but that's just a product of chance. As far
I don't like most hip hop, and I think the "hater" thing is usually kind of silly, but I think I have to agree with DB. You are a hater.
But then again, what does my opinion count for? I make music on my own, therefore I'm not worthy of speaking with such lofty persons as yourself, am I?
If you decide to stick around, you will soon see that we are a diverse website in which people interested in diverse music styles actually get along. What I perceive of your attitude in this matter is not uncommon among rock musicians--the attitude that someone who makes music on newer technology (ie. synthesizers and MIDI sequencing) aren't 'real' musicians.
Read Acumen's post in this thread: http://www.dmusic.com/forum/music/7786
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:12 PM
well now that i think of it thats not a bad idea, i think im gonna try it.
benrebel ur a genius!!!
Maffmatix
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:15 PM
Sure I'll do that for ya smookies.
Im livin in LA now, by the way, but I hail from Boston.
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:19 PM
(clapping) Acumen did his thing on that post ||just read it ||
not sure if anyone here has actually study Sound syth as well as music
But I will stretch to say that in some non studied producers beat makers etc. you can feel natural introversions in the play of the sounds that are used almost like there is a key structure the same is true of trance,Rave, and like forms its all music MANNNNN!
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:20 PM
come to my thread "im oldschoolhiphop talk to me" its crazy cool
BenRebel
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:23 PM
lol @ Oldschool
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:25 PM
sorry i stole your idea benrebel its hella cool
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:32 PM
i had to beat you to it
Pagan
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 6:33 PM
i agree with most of what smooka says
OldSchoolHipHop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 7:08 PM
all hail hip hop
ronnie71
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 9:21 PM
who invited this guy?
TameasDust
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 9:25 PM
TameasDust
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 9:33 PM
" id="87599">mostly I listen to electronic, some rock and jazz mixed in ... drifting over to world lately but I sample hip hop once in a while, but that song 'Determined by Scheme' rules
CowgirlBebop
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 9:57 PM
As for how this community is going to help you, I don't know - I didn't know it was required to help you. I didn't see any clause in the agreement about that when I signed up. Maybe you actually signed up for a different site and you've confused it with this one.
ROFL
ronnie71
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 9:57 PM
I will listen to anything except yours.
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 10:09 PM
well I got some peoples attention, huh? Not all was read right but such is life.
Listen the ironic part is, I am only one person, I write all my music, I play all my music.
So if most of you took the time to see what really was saidand the forum under which I wrote this. You might rest a little better at night knowing you got all stressed out over one dude with a keyboard and a opinion. All we ever want in life is an opinion. SO no slight on any musician, genre and whatever else you can manifest yourselves up.
I happy to have an opinion and happy to be on Dmusic.
Thank you all for you time, remember you got to say what you wanted to say too. I never called anyone anything, except the boner, teehee
bedouin.dmusic.com
smooka
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 10:13 PM
I do apolagize for this irresponsible statement.
I was in the moment, I actually just read it.
It all is a honest days work when making music
"Too much praise for the one man art form (hip-hop) and not enough attention to honest days work."
Svensta
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 10:49 PM
Maybe that's how the commnuity is going to help you. We will point out when you are being inflammatory and otherwise completely way off base.
No need to thank us, we would shred anyone with nonsense to say about music in all its wondrous variety.
robbydadrummer
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 10:50 PM
The WHOLE point is to be yourself and enjoy making the MUSIC!!!! (in any form)
OneUnderAttack
Date: February 20, 2004 @ 11:02 PM
Oh yeah stoner funk rock. What we actually is use the cool beats that hip hop has and interpret them to the drum kit, and then I add funk bass and Zach does Guitar and then the vocals go over that I mean thats how it is with OUA http://oneunderattack.dmusic.com/
But with this new experimental hip hop group the Lazy Eye Crew that I am in we make all of the music ourselves, I play all of the bass and drum lines and Zach plays guitar. then we all rap over it, it is OUA rapfunkrock but toned down on the rock and brought up on the rapfunk. Ill have LEC's site up soon so you can check it out for yourselves.
Maffmatix
Date: February 21, 2004 @ 1:49 PM
Haha you apologized.
vozz
Date: February 21, 2004 @ 3:34 PM
Metal, rock, electronic, punk/ska.
I like some good stuff. If only I could listin to hifi. Damn 56k. I'm actually got 31.2k now.
robbydadrummer
Date: February 21, 2004 @ 4:02 PM
31.2k??? AKKKKKK. I used to get better than that when I was on AOHell...
vozz
Date: February 21, 2004 @ 4:13 PM
Hahaha. I can't even support lofi streaming.
robbydadrummer
Date: February 21, 2004 @ 4:55 PM
No kidding. And I wasn't concerned with sites that had 32k lo-fi streaming anymore because I thought almost all dial-up ISP's had finally gotten better than that. Guess I was wrong...
Hollohan
Date: March 2, 2004 @ 2:33 PM
Obvisouly all mainstream rap sucks. True lyricism in any form is what music should be. And anyone with the slightest bit of intelligence knows this.
starseven
Date: March 2, 2004 @ 3:16 PM
no smooka.. you;ve got it all wrong..... Hip Hop isnt one guy with a drum machine.... they ussualy just pay someone else with a drum machine to write their music for them ...
victorsskull
Date: March 2, 2004 @ 3:29 PM
be happy we have the site to put our music on
pog
Date: March 2, 2004 @ 5:56 PM
I think some ppl are totally missing the bigger picture... this is a perfect example of where the riaa is still fully in control, much to my disgust.
When you turn on your t.v., what do you see ??? Usually jay-z, running round with nelly, and half naked chicks, and .... it sells.... it's the in thing, it's the latest fad. There's nothing anyone can do about it, particularly when they prefered it when Iron Maiden were topping the charts with "Can I play with madness".
In retrospect, what do you think is going to be the genre that is the most active in our community. Thats not to say that every single genre isn't worth it's salt just because it is or isn't what fasion is dictating.... dmusic members are not sheep, so try not to put all of it's members into a box straight away
Independant music is alive and well !!!
redrasta
Date: March 2, 2004 @ 7:42 PM
LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BenRebel
Date: March 3, 2004 @ 12:37 PM
Obvisouly all mainstream rap sucks. True lyricism
Who in here can say they hold the true meaning of True lyricsm
there are lyrics out there that each one of hold as great and well written by diffrent artist but can't that also be said of almost anyone out there's lyrics?
I look at OutKast applaud them for reaching out and doing something diffrent, which to me Rap should always be doing
do I look at them as being Lyriclly Gifted? or nodd my head to another player in this game keeping it fresh..
this can be said of all types of music
I think third eye blind's lyrics are off the meters! well not the last LP the one before do I think there the greatest hmm no but I think there damn good
djfacemachine
Date: March 3, 2004 @ 3:27 PM
"I will listen to anything except yours."
you rock my socks ronnie
YaBoyDrew
Date: March 3, 2004 @ 11:16 PM
no they dont thats y we have all the other genres.....yes im bein sarcastic. yo smooka wutz good?? DLB got his own battle thread now...
"I wish we did have your battle forum boner, you wouldn't like me even more."
...back up wut u said
BenRebel
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 10:12 AM
hmm someone's being called out...
victorsskull
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 12:32 PM
hip hop is pretty cool
Artsa
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 5:36 PM
ELECTRIC music RULES =D so everybody listen that!
SUB categories:
Drum N Bass
Trance
Jungle
Hard House
House
BenRebel
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 10:04 PM
I think I'm going to put up a drum and bass track today..spread my wings alittle..
pog
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 10:16 PM
Thats the spirit
TameasDust
Date: March 4, 2004 @ 11:25 PM
listen to mostly dance lately ... whether it is on here or elsewhere now that is a question
BenRebel
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 12:14 AM
ok I'm uploading something did'nt really mix it but you can tell me what you think if at least I have the feel or am i way off base..
lessthantag
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 12:21 AM
smooka, where'd you get this idea of 'teamwork'. yes a band has several people in it that play different things to make a good sound, but what about when they play live? isnt it the same as when a hip-hop artist plays? he still needs people to play shit for him, unless its a kareokee(sp) thing. i myself dont really like hiop-hop, thats just my taste. im into punk rock. but i still respect every single artist on here that preforms what they enjoy doing. dont be dissing another genre just because its 'not hard work'...especially when to make something sound good, much time and effort is needed
lessthantag
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 12:26 AM
smooka, where'd you get this idea of 'teamwork'. yes a band has several people in it that play different things to make a good sound, but what about when they play live? isnt it the same as when a hip-hop artist plays? he still needs people to play shit for him, unless its a kareokee(sp) thing. i myself dont really like hiop-hop, thats just my taste. im into punk rock. but i still respect every single artist on here that preforms what they enjoy doing. dont be dissing another genre just because its 'not hard work'...especially when to make something sound good, much time and effort is needed
BenRebel
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 12:51 AM
ok I uploaded my feeble atempt to do drum & bass (at least i think I did) so tell me how bad at it I am..
pog
BenRebel
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 3:28 PM
Hey !!!! NOw I stuck my neck out to try some diffrent type of music .. just to boarden my mind .. do you think someone would aleat listen to it and tell me I suck !! or go back to Rap or get a horse or something!??
hmmm
ok I'm going to do Metal next ! you'll get sick of me thennnnn you'll comment ^%$$#(#^*(
BenRebel
Date: March 5, 2004 @ 3:29 PM
lol
BenRebel
Date: March 14, 2004 @ 2:19 PM
?
zxilton
Date: March 14, 2004 @ 8:19 PM
thump...thump...thump...
"Now I'll put a lil'.." tinkle tinkle "in there..."
"Just needs a.." HELL YEAh..here we go!
"Now for the final touch some synth..."
Man ...in 10 mins I got a hit here.
To me creating hip hop is about like creating some abstract piece of art. As long as you got the tempo then no matter what you add on top of it ..as long as it fits the tempo..you can creat a loop in about 5 minutes.
leerees
Date: March 14, 2004 @ 9:51 PM
Im a dance producer but i'll listen to anything, it depends what mood im in but i listen to classical aswell as indie rock music and rap.
BenRebel
Date: March 15, 2004 @ 12:44 PM
zxilton
Thats true of any form of music .. (and Hell YEAH??? let me guess you don't produce hiphop.....right?)
your thoughts of hip hop production reflexs 30% of hip hop production just like in other forms of music there are diffrent styles with in the form itself..
enhance your mind musically and study the diffrent STYLES of hip hop and see what your missing as a dance producer Leerees can tell you there are many styles within dance music some simple in form others very complex..
I'm trying to open my mind up to grow some so I'm going around DM and listening to other forms of music in here and then writting in that form I guess its my way of combating writers block when I go back to hip hop
MarcSalmon
zxilton
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 6:53 AM
Well I would like to claify something tho...I am not saying that hip hop sucks..its not my personal cup of tea. All I am saying is that of all the music forms out hip hop is the easiest to create. You don't need to know how to play an instrument to produce a the kind of dance beats that hip hop songs are signified by.
I conducted a test because I didn't want to come here yapping over stuff I didn't know about. I wanted to let some science and observation come into this. My 12 year old daughter (bless her heart hasn't got a musical bone in her body)...I showed her the program that could be used to create loops and synth beats...and I gave her a crash course in the basics. Then I left the room. In about 10 mins she was calling me back listen to something she had made. It sounded pretty hip hop to me..I was listening to this thing with my own musically trained ear.
Now I am actually going conduct this test again...and I am going use 9 other people to conduct it.The thing that I would point out is this. I guarantee you that if I had said to my daughter..."Here's a guitar...a drum sequencer, a bass and pro tools (multi-track recording software) I'll be back in 10 minutes to check your progress." She'd probably still be there.
From a musicians stand point as well. I can write a hip hop song...I have done it before and have actually some stuff played at dances and re-requested at dances. Asfas the amount of effort goes...creating music using real live instrumnets such as guitars, bass, and drums requires a hell of a lot longer time to accomplish then doing anything electronic.
Again tho..I am not saying hip hop sucks..I am just saying it is very easy for most anyone to do. I think thats why some artist who creat their music in the traditional way kinda feel cheated when it comes to hip hop and electronic dance music.
Jesuszilla
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 9:06 AM
I think that's bullshit, what's the difference between someone doing something on a computer and doing something on the guitar? You still have to write an original tune and write everything else yourself. Also, I find it funny that people say they can easily make a hip hop song; it's not very easy for someone to do, unless maybe if it sounds like total shit. Also, I'm sure you could do something ten times better than Eminem, Massive Attack and any other popular hip hop/electronic artist, are you going to say that ANYONE could make what they do?
I really hate this attitude of certain music taking no skill to make, it's like you think you're better than everyone else and you could easily make a great song if you tried.
BenRebel
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 9:42 AM
zxilton I'm not sure what your choice of play is.. but at this too your test I can take your daughter teach her (3) CORD changes on the guitar teach her a simple drum pattern (not even useing the ride)and can place a large number of ROCK songs change to minor and it will be a large number of Gospel songs.. I can also go into your page simplfy any of your songs and then teach it to my son in a day..
guess what thats music
BenRebel
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 11:26 AM
zxilton I'm not sure what your choice of play is.. but at this too your test I can take your daughter teach her (3) CORD changes on the guitar teach her a simple drum pattern (not even useing the ride)and can place a large number of ROCK songs change to minor and it will be a large number of Gospel songs.. I can also go into your page simplfy any of your songs and then teach it to my son in a day..
guess what thats music
BenRebel
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 11:27 AM
Sorry about the double post
MarcSalmon
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 11:33 AM
I knew i shouldn't have said anything! all i wanted to know is how the DM picks work.
I think i'l post this in another forum.
BenRebel
Date: March 16, 2004 @ 1:09 PM
Marc I do not think th ecomments are for your statement..
zxilton
Date: March 17, 2004 @ 12:02 AM
Hey BenRebel..at least thanks for visiting my page. I am not saying anythingin this discussion just to be a prick..i am just statinng my opinion thats it easier to do hip hop than traditional guitar, bass and drums rock.
I do write simple songs for a reason. Its not for the lack of ability as I can write the big complicated orchestrated over bloated lyic filled stuff as well.
Ya know..my recordings..I used a guitar with one pick-up with strings that really should have been changed a long time ago...a 50 dollar microphone...and a 100 yr old bass. The drums tracks were created in fruity loops using custom drum samples and I used Cool Edit Pro to record it all. I also used Sound forge and some other apps to do some tweaking. Its a fairly long process. One thing I need to point out is that I can compose a hip hop song in one program. Now i'm not saying that my music is perfect sounding or my songs are great..but given what I had to work with...isn't anyone gonna tell me that I haven't pulled off a darn good effort. It takes a fair bit of understanding to accomplish that. Heh..i got a friend who's got a zillion dollar guitar , amps and pedals, and better microphones and he's can't figure out how I did it...and his recording sound very harsh and high pitched.
I have to respond to what you said about the guitar thing. I will give you credit..because what you say is soemwhat true. Yes it is totally possible to show a kid three chords and have them perform alot of songs with them. The whole punk rock scene seems based on that concept (power chords) However...playing the guitar for the first time the very first thing they choke on is the dificulty in pressing them there strings Getting the arm going and the finger action down pat is the next hurdle. Even just trying to the famous "smoke on the water" rif is challenging to a begginner. Yes with a few hours of practice they could probabl roughly pull off a song or 2..and in a few days a whole slew of them...but test comes in when you compare the quality of the results.
Sit a kid down with an dance loop program...in 10 minutes they can compose an electronic piece where all sounds are at perfect levels, tones and mixes. They just gotta pick and choose them. The samples they will be using are already pre-recorded and if they aren't live sounds then they are "midi" which means even less messing around. They can create a damn near professional dance mix in about 10 mins save it as a wav file stick it on a CD..all from one program ready to take to the DJ booth.
If you are a musician, you generally have a good understanding of how music works which mean most of them could sit down and create a dance rythym with ease....however can any electronic music artist sit down with a guitar, bass and drums and do the same?
It takes talent to make a "great" hiphop song or a traditional rock song..because it still is all about the "idea"....howver once you have that great idea, its easier to do it electronically than with traditional instruments.
I know it sound like I'm knocking electronic styled music..but but thats not my intention. There are some songs that I like quite a bit actaully.
Anyways..I am done talking about it. I think I will go to one of the otherforums on the net where the subject is much difficult.."Creation vs.Evolution"...LOL
BenRebel
Date: March 17, 2004 @ 2:53 AM
I can play a little classical bassoon I also have a 4 bassoon sounds in my Racks .. (which one what I use) enuff said...
2nd the Concepts theory introversions etc. can be learned in a matter of minutes..
ear talent feelings can not...
if you feel you can produce a good Hip HOP track song etc. do it .. upload it .. let Dm chec it out I'm sure its so simple you coud pull off a "single" worthy track let me know when its done..
Jesuszilla
Date: March 17, 2004 @ 9:44 AM
Programs like EJay are like that, but any professional music software is completely different, though you probably already know that.
I guess that's why artists like myself can get annoyed, if people think it's all sample based. The difference between something like Dance EJay where it has all pre-made tunes and beats and what I use, Reason, is that even though Reason uses samples, say you have a piano, it will have a sample of every note of a piano so you can make your own original tunes, so it's no different that someone playing a piano and recording it, and EJay, you just choose a tune and it's totally skilless.
Then again, it is easier for someone with some proper music software to make a song than someone with only a guitar, because it is possible to make a complete song with loads of different instruments and have it sound nice... notice on this site, generally Electronic music has the best production/sound, but it's certainly no push of a button thing.
And the thing with the thing, and the other thing that makes the thing with the thing... and the thing.
zxilton
Date: March 17, 2004 @ 11:59 AM
"...Reason, is that even though Reason uses samples, say you have a piano, it will have a sample of every note of a piano so you can make your own original tunes"
Yep, I agree..if you are going that route and constructing your own samples and fine tuning things so that what you end up with is totally original..that I agree is where true taklent would come in and I woul;d have to retract my opinions on that. I bet there are a few artist who go that route and I have all the repsect in the world for them. However I in the opinion that there's a giant amount of people on DMusic who don't do that. That's one of the places my argument lay. Show me real creative effort...
The thing of it is..there really nothing out right now probably soon will be I'm sure tho) that allows a person to quickly create a real sounding composition of real guitars, drums, bass etc..(well to extent yes for drums and bass..but that still takes note for note sequencing and a little understanding of timing to construct patterns that fit together sensibly).
TameasDust
Date: March 17, 2004 @ 11:18 PM
Nope .. we ALL listen to RAP ... Just check out our PlayLists
robbydadrummer
Date: March 19, 2004 @ 1:16 AM
Uhhhhh... no, not ALL of us listen to rap/hip-hop. I can't stand the shit, personally. But most people don't listen to prog rock/metal, jazz (especially traditional or fusion jazz anymore), bluegrass or instrumental stuff either (including classical), unlike me.
*sides with zxilton*
I'll catch shit for this (already have), but it's my opinion also. A computer is a TOOL, not an instrument. Committing yourself to master a real instrument (or multiple instruments for some of us here) is far more work than learning and replicating shit on a computer where you simply create loops and reuse those SAME loops the whole song. Cut and paste... BORING!! ANYONE can create hip-hop/electronica/whatever on a computer.. whether it has very original melodies or NOT. Yeah, many people can learn BASIC rhythms on a guitar, drums, whatever... but to truly master that instrument requires commitment, time, experience. Being able to get to the point of keeping a steady meter on your own, to be creative in unique patterns, and to improv stuff spontaneously within a band setting is something very few hip-hop composers can accomplish. I've seen it too many times, so don't bother arguing with me on this point. Of course, there are always exceptions. But getting a group of MUSICIANS to work things out together and get things tight is far more effort than a computer composer.
Woof
Date: March 19, 2004 @ 3:57 AM
Anything good is good. Rap, electronic, country, rock, metal, pop... It really depends on how inventive the artist gets.
Do I listen to rap? Well... I don't go looking for it, but I've found rap I like. I can't get into what's a "better" genre, 'cause once you go down that road, you start blowing off a lot of good peoples' work as inconsequential... and nobody deserves that. Sorry.
Jesuszilla
Date: March 19, 2004 @ 5:41 AM
Sorry, but that is just total ignorance. Are you saying anyone can recreate something Electronic artists like the Prodigy, Massive Attack, even Nine Inch Nails can do? They all use computers! There is NO difference between writing something on a computer and on any other instrument, plus writing something on a computer REQUIRES COMMITMENT!
You can't learn to use a PROFESSIONAL music program in a day, fuck, I've been using music software for years to create original music, oh, and I also play the guitar and guess what, there's no difference at all between learning the two.
People like you assume it's a no skill thing, like you have to justify your own ability. Why go round saying all that crap about certain genres? You just assume that a hip hop/electronic artist that does something on a computer pushes a button and gets everything done for them, whereas someone else has to spend lots of time doing the same thing. There is no difference.
BenRebel
Date: March 19, 2004 @ 1:32 PM
NIN rock by the way :)still have the T-shirt when they were a short time with TVT records
my last statement :
NO ONE MASTERS ANYTHING IN MUSIC.. MUSIC WAS NEVER MENT TO BE MASTERED
Rap is MUSIC so it will continues to grow
Music grows because it has to..creating music and the way its created has to change in order for music to grow..
if not we would still be useing two sticks and a box guitar
software and computers introduced a Musician
that has No Musical boundries
People are learning the basics and with these Basics mastering new music levels
the process music was always intended to take
Robby and ZX stop trying to kill new music
and help the old music your doing ...
" id="92012">Siding with : Jesuszilla, WooF
I'm not sure where I land but I'm sure I'm considered Electronic musian ..(actually I do not use software programs to write I have never! used looping programs for rythme tracks {asid or the like) Nor would I
I do call sounds to my keyboard controller and then play them .. but let me let robbyd~ know I have studied Sax so I know how a sax is playied I play Keys and know theory between me and my Brother (RIP) we playied 7 instruments my brother the procussionist Studied under Lenny White and others and we taught each other and crossed knowledge just so you will know the foundation of my statements Under stand this :
Emajor7 is Emajor7 a para-diddle is a Para-diddle the use of it - from you or from an un-trained person used in the right place gives the same feel
Do I listen to prog rock/metal, jazz ? Yes more than likly have a bigger selection then the very people that do not listen to rap..
And here is the scary thing: rap listeners electronic listeners JAzz listeners are open to listening many diffrent forms of music because of this they grow musiclly
the same reason for the death of Rock punk blue grass etc. that do not..
if your stuck to a "circle of 5ths" you may never know to enjoy what lays out side of its sonic world..
NIN rock by the way still have the T-shirt when they were a short time with TVT records
my last statement :
NO ONE MASTERS ANYTHING IN MUSIC.. MUSIC WAS NEVER MENT TO BE MASTERED
Rap is MUSIC so it will continues to grow
Music grows because it has to..creating music and the way its created has to change in order for music to grow..
if not we would still be useing two sticks and a box guitar
software and computers introduced a Musician
that has No Musical boundries
People are learning the basics and with these Basics mastering new music levels
the process music was always intended to take
Robby and ZX stop trying to kill new music
and help the old music your doing ...
fighterpilot
Date: March 19, 2004 @ 3:43 PM
my God theres too much readin to do here, so my answer to ur topic: I do.
zxilton
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 10:52 AM
Hey dude..nobody is trying to kill new music. I'm just saying that overall...aside from individuals such as your self who can create original stuff from the bottom up...its's just getting to the point now where "anyone" can grab a few samples..slap em together and it maintains that professional sound with very little effort. I ain't knocking any music artist who has the abiltiy to innovate regardless if they are using guiatrs or the keyboard.
Obviously you are a serious electronic musician, someone who utilizes some serious ass techniques to creat your stuff...I would think that even you would feel kinda cheated after spending the time you have creating a great piece of art...and then some little geek comes along and says..."heheh..I can do that..." and in 10 mins creates something with a sampling program that immitates what you are doing to the point where most people can;t tell the difference. I'd feel like."Geez..that kinda cheapened it!"
And you know something else? I would be the first to say that some of my music sounds a little dated. However I am just getting back into the music scene after a little while out of it. The songs I have written, recorded, and posted on Dmusic are my very first pieces. All recorded on shit hardware to be honest...a $50 mic, a rusty old string guitar, a 100 dollar effects pedal, a million year old bass,a drum machine and a sound card. These days I am closely observing a few things in order to update some some stuff in the new songs I am writing. Some of it will actually include electronic elements. So please don't make comments about "old music". I assure you I know what I'm doing. As I have heard others comment...even proponents of electronic music for that matter...music is timless...people will listen to what they like..thats the bottom line. When say things such as "...and help the old music your doing ...", I'd like to remind you how RIAA that sounds. They are the ones who have created this false idea of out-dated music. It help with their coporate plans of greed so that they can "sell" music and sue more 12 yr olds.
You have thrown in a few technical terms in your post, which tells me you have a deeper understanding of the technical side of music, and considering what I've used to produce my music and the quality of the recordings I have achieved..I think you and I are in the same league, just in different way.
zxilton
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 10:55 AM
So please...lets not argue. Its not guys like you that I have a problem with
sinai
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 11:27 AM
theres no such thing as "fake" instruments
if it makes a noise and suits you to learn it, play that damn coffee can!
BenRebel
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 1:52 PM
if it makes a noise and suits you to learn it, play that damn coffee can!
coooollll" id="92149">ZX said:So please...lets not argue. Its not guys like you that I have a problem with
Well then we do have a problem because I consider myself "Guys like them"
I know people like you ... I have worked with people like you in the past .
people stuck between intra-versions un-able to see beyond theory who would change a cord piece because it was in the wrong "key" as apposed to seeing that it felt "good" in the piece...
there is no growth in that..
if it makes a noise and suits you to learn it, play that damn coffee can!
coooollll
zxilton
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 5:21 PM
Hey Ben...if you got me pegged as the kind of guy who can't see past theory...then my god man you are reading something wrong about what I'm saying here...LOL. I can't imagine how you've deducted from anything I've said in this discussion to conclude that I'm in some way mechanical. Remember...It is "you" who is the electronic musician..not I. "You" seem to be the one who is well versed in the technical side of music using some of the fancy lingo you have featured in some of your post.
I don't give three fucks about theory..not like you are convince I am. I assure I am an artist thru and thru. I do graphic design for a living and msucia side project...I was the one who told someone one time, "Ya know you could have 2 guiatrist sitting there..one who knew all sorts of theory..and the other who knew dip shit about theory but artist creativity....and the starnge thing would be that the guy who knew no theory could potentially create the more interesting piece of music because he is not bound by a stay within the rules mentality."
I'm tellin you right now...I live by that thinking. I know a guy who plays the "egg" for god sakes man. As he plays it along with me sometimes when we are sitting around just doing an acoustic jam. I am telling you right now..you got me all wrong here.
However if you don't wanna see that and you just want there to exist this problem..I don't mind...heh...I can argue with you about this right til the end of time.
zxilton
Date: March 20, 2004 @ 5:21 PM
Hey Ben...if you got me pegged as the kind of guy who can't see past theory...then my god man you are reading something wrong about what I'm saying here...LOL. I can't imagine how you've deducted from anything I've said in this discussion to conclude that I'm in some way mechanical. Remember...It is "you" who is the electronic musician..not I. "You" seem to be the one who is well versed in the technical side of music using some of the fancy lingo you have featured in some of your post.
I don't give three fucks about theory..not like you are convince I am. I assure I am an artist thru and thru. I do graphic design for a living and msucia side project...I was the one who told someone one time, "Ya know you could have 2 guiatrist sitting there..one who knew all sorts of theory..and the other who knew dip shit about theory but artist creativity....and the starnge thing would be that the guy who knew no theory could potentially create the more interesting piece of music because he is not bound by a stay within the rules mentality."
I'm tellin you right now...I live by that thinking. I know a guy who plays the "egg" for god sakes man. As he plays it along with me sometimes when we are sitting around just doing an acoustic jam. I am telling you right now..you got me all wrong here.
However if you don't wanna see that and you just want there to exist this problem..I don't mind...heh...I can argue with you about this right til the end of time.
Maffmatix
Date: March 23, 2004 @ 3:42 AM
Haha, you had your daughter make a beat... and it sounded pretty hip hop??
I hate to hear what 'hip hop' sounds like in your mind!