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Bush the worst President EVER

MisledMayhem	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 12:55 AM Ok ladies, and gents, let the political battle begin! I say Bush is a moron, he went into Iraq with no real plan, now there will probably be a draft next year. He doesn't have the metal capability of being a President, he is simply a puppet of the Republican party and his cabinate controlls everything he does.
ashleighj	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:31 AM groans at topic oh puh-lease.. carter, nixon, f.d.r., bush is no great leader, but worse ones come to mind. we went into iraq with a perfectly good plan. what you're seeing now is Plan B, which deffinitly needed more work. as for the draft? the armed services are reporting that they have all the recruits they need, and those already serving generally don't want to see draftees next to them -- a big problem in vietnam was that so many people didn't want to be there. bad morale and bad performance. the draft-scare is just being used as an election-year ploy. i doubt bush is the greatest mind we've ever had in office, but that doesn't make someone a moron. if he were truly a puppet of the republican party, i'd expect him to be a lot less libral. he did sign that huge medicare prescrption plan, after all. we'll be paying out the ass forever on that one. there are lots of reasons to dislike bush, and i for one won't be voting for him this year. but please, don't sling mud when there are so many good solid points you could be making instead.
Woof	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 4:51 AM I wouldn't say Bush is the worst president ever... Maybe Hoover was... But Bush IS a maniacal, power-crazed tyrant, who caters to corporate interests, and places his own personal agendas ahead of the welfare of the country. And he's not very subtle about shouting his dogged determination to have things run HIS way, from the rooftops. His advisors probably are responsible, for his bravado... Iraq... it established him, in the minds of many Americans, as a leader. Right or wrong. Someone who makes bold moves, and bold moves make history (like Nixon bombing Cambodia, for example). Is Bush a bad president? Well... I think he's incapable of any sort of empathy, for the plight of the common man. I don't think that's "bad", per se... it's more of a symptom of a mental or emotional disorder, like someone incapable of feeling love. Just as criminals are unable to comprehend the pain and suffering that they inflict on others, and can't seem to see beyond their own needs, so does the Bush mentality drive the Republican party to new heights of glory, regardless of the damage it does to my countrys' capacity to ally itself with other countries, and our governments' inability to ally itself with regular folks, who are simply trying to make decent futures for themselves, and their children. But that's not what pisses me off. What pisses me off, is that the folks who WILL vote to reelect this incubus, are doing so to save on the taxes they pay. Pure and simple. It's all about the rich feeling as though they deserve to keep as much as possible of what they've worked for. That's how they stay rich, after all... Anyhow, I had to write just a few short thoughts on the subject. Don't get me started!
Gestapo-Reic...	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 5:30 AM It's easy to attack people without providing a solution. Either you go in and try to establish with others a body of government to serve its people, or you sit back and let another Saddam rule for decades. We have a choice in America to remove a president after 4 years, and if we don't no matter how hard we beg we can't have them a 9th year. Right now, there are terrorists, insurgents, suicide bombers, INDIVIDUALLY taking it upon themself to kill for no other purpose then to end up as one of the dead. In a comedic fashion, perhaps democrats would like Bush to take on this philosophy too. That to me would be even worse. And to finish off, nothing would make Bush seem like the worst more than if everyone who was against this war found a non-physical means to stop the acts by the above mentioned groups. That would really show that we don't need to be there. Can someone go beyond the sanctions, palaces built on aid by other countries, UN meetings, etc.. to show how to deal with these people?
ashleighj	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:13 AM "It's all about the rich feeling as though they deserve to keep as much as possible of what they've worked for." are you saying they don't? read that sentence very closely.. "what they've worked for". that's the key.
billhudson	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 10:11 AM OK, lets look at it this way. This guy Bush does not even care to take care of the earth and what we have. All one has to do is read and see what wolves are in the chicken coop. Here is one of the wolves. Mike Smith Assistant Secretary for Fossil Energy, Department of Energy Then: For years, Smith operated an independent oil and gas company in Oklahoma, serving on the Oklahoma Independent Petroleum Association's board of directors from 1981 to 1995. In 1995, he became Oklahoma's Secretary of Energy, acting as the governor's representative to and Vice Chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Now: Smith is an outspoken advocate of drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Preserve or which, he said ""It's simply a non-issue with me. It looks like a desert covered in snow." In a speech before the Independent Oil and Gas Association of West Virginia, Smith said, "The biggest challenge is going to be how to best utilize taxpayer dollars to the benefit of industry." Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
sinai	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:08 AM 2 things... FDR is one of our greatest presidents ever... and most rich have worked a day in their goddamn lives for what they have, of had so many advantages over the average person that no shit they'd end up rich
sinai	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:10 AM not that i give two squirts a piss, our leaders have always been corrupt, thats nothing new, Bush is just up front about it, or too damn stupid to see how blatant he is. Iraq was a good idea? ima guess you aint typing that from downtown Basra now are ya?
fighterpilot	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:23 AM bush is gay. he went into iraq to get saddam just so he could bone him
fighterpilot	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:35 AM bush is gay. he went into iraq to get saddam just so he could bone him
ThreeMileIsland	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:49 AM I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, "Thank me, I voted for Clinton-Gore." So, I sat down and reflected on that, and since you are now supporting Mr. Kerry, I am sending my "Thank you" for what you have specifically done: 1. Thank you for introducing us to Jennifer Flowers, ! Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Dolly Kyle Browning, Kathleen Willey and Juanita Broderick. Did I leave anyone out? 2. Thank you for teaching my 8 year old about oral sex. I had really planned to wait until they were older to discuss it with them, but now they know more about it than I did as a senior in college. 3. Thank you for showing us that sexual harassment in the work place (especially the White House) and on the job is OK, and all you have to know is what the meaning of "is" is. It really is great to know that certain sexual acts are not sex, and one person may have sex while the other one involved does NOT have sex. 4. Thank you for reintroducing the concept of impeachment to a new generation and demonstrating that the ridiculous plot of the movie, "Wag the Dog" could be plausible after all. 5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent, Gerald Ford look graceful, Richard Nixon look honest, Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look moral. 6. Thank you for the 73 House and Senate witnesses who have pled the 5th Amendment and 17 witnesses who have fled the country to avoid testifying about Democratic campaign fund raising. 7. Thank you, for the 19 charges, 8 convictions, and 4 imprisonments from the Whitewater "mess" and the 55 criminal charges and 32 criminal convictions (so far) in the other "Clinton" scandals. 8. Thanks also for reducing our military by half, "gutting" much of our foreign policy, and flying all over the world on "vacations" carefully disguised as necessary trips. 9. Thank you, also, for "finding" millions of dollars--- I really didn't need it in the first place, and I can't think of a more well deserving group of recipients for my hard-earned dollar than jet fuel for all of your globe-trotting. I understand you, your family and your cronies have logged in more time aboard Air Force One than any other administration. 10. Now that you've left the White House, thanks for the 140 pardons of convicted felons and indicted felons-in-exile. We will love to have them rejoin society. 11. Thanks also for removing the White House silverware. I'm sure that Laura Bush didn't like the pattern anyway. Also, enjoy the housewarming gifts you've received from your "friends." 12. Thanks to you and your staff in the West Wing of the White House for vanda! lizing and destroying government property on the way out. I also appreciate removing all of that excess weight (China, silverware, linen, towels, ash trays, soap, pens, magnetic compass, flight manuals, etc.) out of Air Force 1. The weight savings means burning less fuel, thus less tax dollars spent on jet fuel. Thank you! 13. And, please ensure that Hillary enjoys the $8 million dollar advance for her "tell-all" book and you, Bill, the $10 million advance for your memoirs. Who says crime doesn't pay? 14. The last and most important point - thank you for forcing Israel to let Mohammed Atta go free. Terrorist pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners". However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammed Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center. This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the t! ime that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports. Why shouldn't Americans know the real truth? God bless America and THANK YOU (once again) for spending my taxes so wisely and frugally. SINCERELY, A US Citizen PS. Please pass along a special thank you to Al Gore for "inventing" the Internet, without which I would not be able to send this wonderful factual e-mail. AND THE REST OF THE STORY Hillary Rodham Clinton, as a New York State Senator, now comes under the "Congressional Retirement and Staffing Plan," which means that even if she nev! er gets reelected, she STILL receives her Congressional salary until she dies. (Would it not be nice if all Americans were pension eligible after only 4 years?) If Bill outlives her, he then inherits HER salary until HE dies. He is already getting his Presidential salary until he dies. If Hillary outlives Bill, she also gets HIS salary until she dies. Guess who pays for that? WE DO! It's common knowledge that in order for her to establish NY residency they purchased a million dollar-plus house in upscale Chappaqua, New York. Makes sense. They are entitled to Secret Service protection or life. Still makes sense. Here is where it becomes interesting. Their mortgage payments hover at around $10,000 per month. BUT, an extra residence HAD to be built within the acreage to house the Secret Service agents. The Clinton's charge the Federal government $10,000 monthly rent for the use of that extra residence, which is just a! bout equal to their mortgage payment. This means that we, the taxpayers, are paying the Clinton's salary, mortgage, transportation, safety and security, as well as the salaries for their 12 man staff-and, this is all perfectly legal!
ThreeMileIsland	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 11:53 AM Worst president in history, huh? The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. It puts a few things in perspective. Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11. Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims. FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions. In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 30 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home. Worst president in history? Come on! The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but... It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick. It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!! Our military and our President are GREAT!
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:34 PM heres my views and lots of em here we go The George W. Bush Resume Past work experience: Ran for congress and lost. Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie. Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after he sold all his stock. Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to Chicago. With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas. Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in America. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in the U.S. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history. Accomplishments as president: First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record. In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job. Members of Bush cabinet are the richest administration in history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has a Chevron oil tanker named after her). Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history. Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period. Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market. First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history. After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history. Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history. Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period. Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history. Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history. Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans. Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history. Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world. Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history. · Withdrew from the World Court of Law. Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions. First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections). All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations. First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community. First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1) First US president to establish a secret shadow government. Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history). Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability. Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts. Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'. Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months there are no leads or suspects. In the 18 months following the 911 attacks he has successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States. Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down. Records and References: At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available). AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war. Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use. All records of tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to his fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:34 PM 15 Reasons To Hate The President And these are only since he's been inaugurated! This guy doesn't waste any time ruining the world... He cut a half a BILLION dollars from the Environmental Protection Agency' s budget. Who needs to look after the environment when there's all that oil drilling going on? He approved a bill that denies financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible for financial aid). He recently sent a delegation to the UN children' s summit to declare that the use of condoms is not a valid way to fight AIDS and that abstinence is the only solution. This is the view shared by some other countries such as Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Syria, and the Vatican. It seems that his policy of, "No child shall be left behind" has a whole new meaning. He wouldn't sign the Kyoto Protocol agreement on global warming, which was ultimately signed by 178 other countries. He also told the entire European community that he would listen to their arguments, but he would not change his mind, effectively treating Europe like an 8 year old child. This may have something to do with why most of the world hates the US. He rejected an international accord to enforce the 1972 treaty banning germ warfare. Of course that would mean that the US would have to stop producing biological agents too. And talk about the fox watching over the hen house, he nominated former mining company executive Dan Lauriski as Assistant Secretary of Labor for Mine Safety and Health. He allocated only 3% of the amount requested by Justice Department lawyers in the governments continued litigation against tobacco companies. He prohibited any financial aid from going to international family planning organizations that provide abortion counseling, referrals, or services with their own funds. He provided every member of the Bin Laden family living in the U.S. a chartered plane shortly after 9/11 to fly back home to Saudi Arabia without questioning them. One of GW' s first petroleum venture was partnered with the Bin Laden family and George Sr. has been getting filthy rich selling defense contracts to the Bin Ladens. These are just some examples of the many ties the Bush family has with the Bin Ladens. He officially withdrew from the 1972 Antiballistic Missile Treaty, gutting the landmark agreement-the first time in the nuclear era that the US renounced a major arms control accord. Refused to join 123 nations pledged to ban the use and production of anti-personnel bombs and mines, February 2001 September 2001: withdrew from International Conference on Racism, bringing together 163 countries in Durban, South Africa Over the past 10 years, the US prison population has more than doubled. This is mainly due to unfair three strikes laws, and harsher drug penalties. OK so maybe W. wasn' t behind this one, but the Republicans are. International Plan for Cleaner Energy: G-8 group of industrial nations (US, Canada, Japan, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, UK), July 2001: the US was the only one to oppose it. George replied, "Ken who?" when asked about his relationship with Kenneth Lay, the CEO of Enron, during the federal bankruptcy hearings. This was after Enron gave him their company jet to use for his presidential campaign. George and Kenny were such good friends that Ken was actually seen giving wedgies to the president in the oval office. Yet he still replied, "Ken who?"
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:35 PM Real Quotes From A Real Moron "Arbolist...Look up the word. I don't know, maybe I made it up. Anyway, it's an arbo-tree-ist, someone who knows about trees." Crawford, TX 8/21/01 "It's your money, you paid for it." La Crosse, WI 10/18/00 "The Bob Jones policy on interracial dating, I mean I spoke out on interracial dating. I spoke out against that. I spoke out against interracial dating. I support the policy of interracial dating." CBS News 2/25/00 "I don't read what's handed to me." New York, NY 3/15/00 "More and more of our imports come from overseas." Beaverton, OR 9/29/00 "I understand small business growth. I was one." New York, NY 2/19/00 "Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric in nature because it is a product that we can find in our neighborhoods." Austin, Texas 12/20/00 "If affirmative action means what I just described, what I'm for, then I'm for it." St. Louis, MO 10/18/00 "This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation...You gotta preserve." Nashua, NH 1/28/00 "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" Florence, SC 1/11/00 "They Misunderestimated me." Bentonville, AR 11/6/00 "I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can't answer your question." Reynoldsburg, OH 10/4/00 "Our priorities is our faith." Greensboro, NC 10/10/00 "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." Washington, DC 12/18/00 "There's nothing more deep than recognizing Israel's right to exist. That's the most deep thought of all...I can't think of anything more deep than that." Washington, DC, 3/13/02 "And so, in my State of the my State of the Union or state-my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation-I asked Americans to give 4,000 years-4,000 hours over the next-the rest of your life-of service to America. That's what I asked for-4,000 hours." Bridgeport, CT, 4/9/02 "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." New York, NY 4/23/02 "For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times (Dude, it's been like 60 years)." Tokyo 2/18/02 "I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believeÑI believe what I believe is right." Rome 7/22/01 "I think we agree, the past is over." Dallas, TX 5/10/00
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:36 PM you want more fuel for the fire? go to www.punkvoter.com and get the real fact also visit www.unprecedented.org to see exactly how bush stole the election the entire documentary that reveals it and proves it!
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:37 PM Noam Chomsky says it all...read his books kids! he is a genius or get his new dvd distorted morality
Maffmatix	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 1:46 PM DB FOR PRESIDENT and VICE PRESIDENT.
billhudson	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 3:22 PM here's another one of Bush's wolves... September 1, 2003 Patricia Lynn Scarlett Assistant Secretary for Policy, Management, and Budget, Department of the Interior Then: In 1979, Scarlett began working for the libertarian Reason Foundation, becoming its president and CEO in 2001. The Reason Foundation is funded by industry groups such as the American Forest and Paper Association, the American Petroleum Institute, American Plastics Council, Chevron Corporation, Dow Chemical, etc. The author of "A Consumer's Guide to Environmental Myths and Realities," Scarlett cites the following as common myths about the environment: Disposables Are Bad; We Are Running Out of Resources; Americans Are Especially Wasteful; etc. Scarlett was a board member of The Thoreau Institute which "seeks ways to protect the environment without regulation, bureaucracy, or central control." Odd how she's now working in a central agency charged, in part, with regulating the environment. In a 1997 editorial in Reason Magazine, Scarlett wrote, "Environmentalism is a coherent ideology that rivals Marxism in its challenge to the classic liberal view of government as protector of individual rights." Now: Since Gale Norton has been doing her best to keep a low profile, Scarlett has increasingly become the public face of the department, particularly on Capitol Hill. She's behind the proposed privitazation of National Park Service jobs, which environmentalists oppose, and has led the administration's opposition to making the Gaviota Coast of California into a National Seashore. Scarlett's explanation: she feels the Vandenberg Air Force Base officials and local agricultural interests will do a fine job of caring for the land on their own
sideation	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 3:47 PM on a bumper sticker: "Sure you can trust the government.. ask an indian."
ronnie71	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 5:12 PM sinai around 90% of millionaires are first generation which means they worked thier ass off for it..
ronnie71	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 5:13 PM well unless you won the big lottery....
blubat	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 8:52 PM the worst bush assosciate has to be Paul Wolfowitz
mtekk	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:09 PM Ok first off there will not be a draft next year you stupid Libral. Second off, Bush isn't the worst persident that we have had. (Clinton, FDR, Andrew Jackson were far worse) "He approved a bill that denies financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible for financial aid)." Schools won't let you in if you've commited murder, duh. so that's a no brainer, besides that's fare, you screw around with drugs you fuck up your life. "He prohibited any financial aid from going to international family planning organizations that provide abortion counseling, referrals, or services with their own funds." Abortion kills a life, we can't sponsor the destruction of life, because that is murder. don't give the woman's right to choose crap eigher. She had the choice to have sex or not, and since she had sex she is left pregnate, which is why animals, including humans, have sex. "He provided every member of the Bin Laden family living in the U.S. a chartered plane shortly after 9/11 to fly back home to Saudi Arabia without questioning them. One of GW' s first petroleum venture was partnered with the Bin Laden family and George Sr. has been getting filthy rich selling defense contracts to the Bin Ladens. These are just some examples of the many ties the Bush family has with the Bin Ladens." Well first off this is a out right lie. second of all why would anyone do this, or make up such a lie? Rember lieing is a sin, and lieing in court is a crime. "But Bush IS a maniacal, power-crazed tyrant, who caters to corporate interests, and places his own personal agendas ahead of the welfare of the country. And he's not very subtle about shouting his dogged determination to have things run HIS way, from the rooftops. His advisors probably are responsible, for his bravado... Iraq... it established him, in the minds of many Americans, as a leader. Right or wrong. Someone who makes bold moves, and bold moves make history (like Nixon bombing Cambodia, for example)." if he was a power crazy tyrant it would be obvious to everyone, so that isn't true because it can't be proven true. A truely good leader does what he or she feels is right and doesn't do things because everyone want's him or her to do them. a good leader is bold. "Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury. Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history. Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period. Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market." The treasury isn't bankrupt. The economic problems are 100000000% Clinton-Gore's fault along with the rest of the librals in this formerly great nation more of the truth avalible on streaming audio in three formats including mp3 http://www.hannity.com
greatscottpr...	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:24 PM It really would be nice if he knew who his cabinet was though! & here's a song for ya'll! The Good Ol' Boy's Anthem to the tune of the Beverly Hillbillies... Come and listen to my story 'bout a boy name Bush. His IQ was zero and his head was up his tush. He drank like a fish while he drove all about. But that didn't matter 'cuz his daddy bailed him out. DUI, that is. Criminal record. Cover-up. Well, the first thing you know little Georgie goes to Yale. He can't spell his name but they never let him fail. He spends all his time hangin' out with student folk. And that's when he learns how to snort a line of coke. Blow, that is. White gold. Nose candy. The next thing you know there's a war in Vietnam. Kinfolks say, "George, stay at home with Mom. Let the common people get maimed and scarred. We'll buy you a spot in the Texas Air Guard." Cushy, that is. Country clubs. Nose candy. Twenty years later George gets a little bored. He trades in the booze, says that Jesus is his Lord. He said, "Now the White House is the place I wanna be." So he called his daddy's friends and they called the GOP. Gun owners, that is. Falwell. Jesse Helms. Come November 7, the election ran late. Kin folks said "Jeb, give the boy your state!" Don't let those colored folks get into the polls." So they put up barricades so they couldn't punch their holes. Chads, that is. Duval County. Miami-Dade. Before the votes were counted five Supremes stepped in. Told all the voters "Hey, we want George to win." "Stop counting votes!" was their solemn invocation. And that's how George finally got his coronation. Rigged, that is. Illegitimate. No moral authority. Y'all come vote now. Ya hear? Paid for by Great Scott Presentations & the Katherine Harris Foundation for Corrective Plastic Surgery.
mtekk	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:34 PM damn right i'm a gun owner
Tudris	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:36 PM We can blame whoever we want for the economic decline. However, the only thing to really blame is capitalism itself. It's called the business cycle. When supplies are low, businesses hire more people and produce more, and stuff gets sold. Then, as the surplus of these supplies builds, they fire off lots of workers and just sit and sell the whole stockpile. Then it repeats. There's no such thing as an eternal economic climb. However, we can blame Bush for not doing the things that will help the business cycle return to a state that's better for everyone. He cut taxes for big business owners, claiming that the money they saved from the cut would be pumped into the economy. That's a dumb move, because the business owners were already resting on their laurels, selling the surplus inventories. Therefore, they just kept the money the tax cuts saved them and stuck it back into the bank. I'd like you to make a decent case (after you learn to Liberal, you stupid Conservtive, erm, I mean Conservative) as to why Clinton and FDR were bad presidents. You must be a pretty hardcore neo-con to be supporting Bush so fiercely, considering the number of Republicans who are speaking out against Bush. I can't stand to think of the mess my family will be in if Bush gets another four years. And I thought he was all about family and family values. But I guess it's only a family to Bush when Daddy owns an oil or drug company. Us non-humans get to pay for the $2,000,000,000 (that's two billion) in White House decoration funding.
deepfreq	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:38 PM ^ Damn someone is stuck in the nineteenth century ^
deepfreq	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:39 PM I was refering to mtekk
Tudris	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:45 PM Hehe
ashleighj	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 9:48 PM "Before the votes were counted five Supremes stepped in. Told all the voters "Hey, we want George to win." "Stop counting votes!" was their solemn invocation. And that's how George finally got his coronation. Rigged, that is. Illegitimate. No moral authority." --- frances, of all the people here, you'd be the last one i expected to pass off that lie as the truth. the supreme court ruled that during the recount, all ballots had to be counted by the same standard (either all hanging chads count, or none do) and that they had to recount all the votes (not selectively picking areas with a lot of support for democrats). basicly, the ruling said "do it fairly or don't do it". it's sad that no one ever seems to pay attention to that fact.
MisledMayhem	Date: April 22, 2004 @ 10:13 PM yes, discuss and vote against him! Man, I still stand by my statement that he is a moron, blubat hit everything right on the head, he sounds like my drummer. (Noam Fan) I should get around to reading those books. But wow, Iraq was a horrible plan, "BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS OF MASSS DISFUNCTION!......and he tried to kill my Jesus lovin father!" He thinks he's some kind of savior and liberator, but news flash, they don't want us there. It's dumb, it's almost as bad as Vietnam. And no, they don't have enough people in the Military for as long as this is going to take, the predicted draft date is next January. They don't want to send anymore reserves out because they want them here incase they attack us...........because we PISSED them off so much by attacking another muslim country, everytime we do that we put more muslims over the edge to terrorism. Going in and creating "democratic" governments wont solve anything, because it will fall apart faster than a house of cards in a hurricane. But yes, keep discussing, he has the makings of the worst president ever, I hope he doesn't prove me right by being even more retarded if he gets re-elected. But he got us into a damn mess, what the hell are we supposed to do now that we're there?? That's why i said they didn't have a plan, or at least a good one, of course we were going to win, but what happens now?? A draft to keep the peace in a country that doesn't want us there. Sounds very familiar, sounds like someone's movin out of the U.S. or applying as a consientious objector. But man, don't listen to the military, of course they'll say "Oh, we have enough people" they'll be saying that up to the draft day lol.
billhudson	Date: April 23, 2004 @ 2:02 AM Good one Scott and funny as hell! Wolve # 3....... Marianne L. Horinko Acting Administrator, Environmental Protection Agency Then: Before joining the EPA, Horinko was president of the environmental consulting firm Clay Associates, where she represented industry clients regulated by the EPA. Now: Prior to taking over as acting administrator, Horinko was Assistant Administrator for the EPA's Office of Solid Waste and Emergency Response. In that capacity, she oversaw the Superfund program, which shrunk dramatically under her leadership. This year, the administration added only 10 new sites to the list of Superfund cleanup projects, delaying work on 10 others. In explaining the decision, Horinko noted that the agency had to consider economic development benefits, as well as health risks.
greatscottpr...	Date: April 23, 2004 @ 2:34 AM Sorry ya didn't like that one part Ashleigh! Anyway, I was just trying to lighten things up a bit. as this is probably the most dismal subject on the planet right now. It's good to address it though! I think if Bush is re~elected, ALL OF OUR ASSES ARE GONNA GET BOMBED BECAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD IS GETTING PISSED AND STARTING TO HATE OUR GUTS! & IT IS NOT THE PEOPLES FAULT AT ALL! & If electronic voting is gonna be the "ORDER" of the day come ELECTION well then we might as well just start ing NOW CUZ OUR ASSES WILL BE COOKED! I hope to GOD EVERYONE IS PRAYING FOR WORLD RIGHT NOW AS WE PRAY FOR OUR PRESIDENT AND OUR SOLDIERS! There is no doubt in my mind that _EVERYONE EVERYWHERE_ IS VERY VERY TIRED, especially OUR PRESIDENT. It's VERY hard to sit back & watch our President become this obsessed with the (NEW) WAR and even I can somehow relate and understand.
ChillinBuzz	Date: April 23, 2004 @ 3:51 AM point taken but for a teenager to have gotten into the wrong side of things who then makes amends, to be told they wont be going anywhere in education for their past, which to a teenager is ALWAYS an experimental, lawless, hit and run attitude anyway, then to insult them by allowing murderers aid... :shakeshead: everyone makes mistakes sure but why punish them in education? that is so wrong :( ... and only 71% of Europe think he is dangerous... the other 29% couldnt have their answers printed safely :censored: ... thats all i am saying on the person who is slowly cutting the States off from the rest of the world... :chill: " id="96685">"He approved a bill that denies financial aid to students convicted of misdemeanor drug charges (though convicted murderers are still eligible for financial aid)." Schools won't let you in if you've commited murder, duh. so that's a no brainer, besides that's fare, you screw around with drugs you fuck up your life. point taken but for a teenager to have gotten into the wrong side of things who then makes amends, to be told they wont be going anywhere in education for their past, which to a teenager is ALWAYS an experimental, lawless, hit and run attitude anyway, then to insult them by allowing murderers aid... everyone makes mistakes sure but why punish them in education? that is so wrong ... and only 71% of Europe think he is dangerous... the other 29% couldnt have their answers printed safely ... thats all i am saying on the person who is slowly cutting the States off from the rest of the world...
blubat	Date: April 23, 2004 @ 10:04 AM mtekk dude i have nothing to say to you but you sound uneducated. very uneducated..you think i gathered that information from unreliable sources...of course not they come from people like Noma Chomsky and Micheal Moore. Believe what you will but that is the sad truth. Oh and Blaming Clinton for the economic state of The United States Today is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. CLINTON HELPED THE AMERICAN ECONOMY he didnt drive into the shithole that it is now lik Bush did. My god im gonna stop now before i have a hernia. Oh and by the way "misdemeanor drug charges" includes things like marijuana. If you havent noticed 90% of kids today smoke it.
blubat	Date: April 23, 2004 @ 10:05 AM oh and if that information was incorrect bush would have sued them for slandering a long time ago. That information has been on Punk voter for 2 years now.
MisledMayhem	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 12:34 AM Thanks blubat, i didn't even notice mtekk calling me stupid, that's like the last resort in an argument, .....umm well ummm......bush is awesome and your stupid....... Doesn't really get your point accross, just makes me skip over your post because it's not worth my time reading if you're just going to get into name calling and then try to support your arguement by just saying everyone is wrong, don't really give your own ideas, just that everyone is stupid and wrong, you never even gave reasons why Bush is not the worst president ever, which he is, he is at least the least intelligent, and the biggest puppet, Clinton was smart, he just liked sex too much, but he was really really smart lol Being a Rhode Scholar if he was President, he would have not gone into Iraq with such haste and such little knowledge of what would go on once we won. Bush just went in there bull headed on the outlandish claim that they had "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which there were none, and now we get to be in Iraq. And American's and lots of Iraqies get to die, all because of some hunch, and the idiot Bush Docterine of Pre-emtive strike, which sets a terrible precident, because now anyone can attack any one just because they have a hunch that they will attack us, so North Korea can justifiably nuke the west coast because they feel threatened.
blubat	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 1:23 AM umm criminals dont go to school? wtf country do you live in of course they go to school how the hell do you think they get released into the outside world. They got to school, they take classes. And by the way i have never seen on my college or univeristy applications the question: Are you a convicted Killer? anyways just my :twocents:
Pagan	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 6:25 AM my favorite presedent was William Henry Harrison. he is the only president with a spotless record.and my hero.
Pagan	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 6:48 AM mtekk is younger than 16 yrs old? he is just spouting shit that hes heard the old people say.hes surrounded by right wing-scared to death christians. that explaines so much. hes not thinking, hes regurgitating.his mind has been hanitized of any common sense.
EmpireDay3	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 9:58 AM wow, too bad those with anti-Bush sentiment couldn't get their facts from other than the liberally skewed left wing media. Kind of sad that people are going to base their votes on misinformation. Best president ever he is not, but he is definitely not the worst. Nor is he a moron, and his cabinet are probably some of the most brilliant minds in their areas at the moment. I really didn't want to get involved in this topic, but it's pretty sad to see all the misinformed hate. You can twist it any way you like, but seeing the spoon fed anti bush statements/misinformation is really a downer. I'm not even a bush supporter, but some of the opinions up there are really a mess. I'm not going to write for two hours to refute them all, nor do I want to be a part of this argument, just for some of those who have posted their anti bush sentiments to know that there are those who are watching and know you are mistaken in your facts. Sure, he has made some mistakes - all presidents have - but let it not be us who make the mistakes about the facts of their non-mistakes, it only makes us look stupid to those who know differently.
sinai	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 10:36 AM lets just pick someone out of a crowd, blame all of our problems on them, nail them to a cross, and start all over again. it worked last time, not necessarily for the better, but it worked
billhudson	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 10:54 AM well Empireday3 here is some more fact not some left wing media misinformation . Wolve #4 Mark Rey Undersecretary for Natural Resources and Environment, Department of Agriculture Then: One of the nation's foremost timber lobbyists, Rey spent twenty years working for timber industry organizations such as the National Forest Products Association, the American Paper Institute, and the American Forest Resources Alliance. He also served as a Vice President of the American Forest and Paper Association, a leading advocate of logging in national forests. In 1995, as a professional staff member to the Senate Energy and Natural Resources committee, Rey authored the infamous "salvage" timber rider, which suspended all environmental laws guarding old growth forests in the Pacific Northwest. Rey also authored Senator Larry Craig's (R-ID) version of the National Forest Management Act, lifting the language of the bill directly from the American Forest and Paper Association's industry-promoting recommendations to the House resource committee. The bill eliminated citizen oversight committees and other environmental safeguards. Rey was a featured speaker in both 1996 and 1998 at the "Fly In for Freedom" event held by the "Wise-Use" organization, Alliance for America. Ron Arnold, a founding member of the "Wise-Use" movement explained its mission as follows: "Our goal is to destroy, to eradicate the environmental movement. We want to be able to exploit the environment for private gain, absolutely." Now: As the administration's top forestry official, Rey has been a key force behind two administration measures benefiting timber companies -- the "Healthy Forests" initiative to accelerate logging in wildfire-prone areas, and the decision to grant exemptions to the ban on logging in roadless areas of national forests. Both would allow loggers to cut bigger trees in areas such as the Tongass National Forest and the Giant Sequoia National Monument. "Put simply," Rey has said, "We should start with the premise that a policy cannot be good for the environment if it is bad for people." Bush cares for the enviroment? My question would be, What are you smoking? And Sinai its not that we all go around just looking to blame someone. But how long can one just stand on the sideline and watch as theses guys make this earth their parking lot? Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
ashleighj	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 12:13 PM empireday, you're saying exactly what i'm feeling. seems like _both_ sides on this one are just spouting off the party lines. it's so much easier not to think and make your own conclusions. silly me to have thought it could be different.
EmpireDay3	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 12:26 PM well, Bill, sorry to see that you are in the minority. I really didn't want to get involved in this issue, but I will defend personal attacks. According to the washington times, less than 35% of the country is concerned about the state of the environment and even 28% of democrats rate the state of the environment as excellent. you can find the article for yourself here: http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040419-111757-7490r.htm. So "what I'm smokin" is the fact that americans must believe that someone at the top is doing an OK job on the environment, otherwise the concern for its protection would not have slipped from the top spot as it was under Clinton in the 90's and into 2000. Don't get me wrong, I firmly agree with your stance on the protection of the environment, but it also widely known and accepted that some use the platform of environmentalism as a launching pad for other agenda. I do not want to perpetuate this by making accusations about your motivations, so I will not. As I said in my previous post, just know someone is watching - and extremism in the form of bush bashing when the facts are just not there to support it is a little unsettling. Someone addressed this earlier, so for those who are also interested: the top 50% of Wage Earners Pay 96.03% of Income Taxes. Still knob tweakin' empireday3
billhudson	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 12:48 PM in no way was this a person attck but more of a stand. All one has to do is read and see who's in there with the power. Theses guys are turning this earth into a dump. There is a new study as to do with the oceans. A dead ocean does not help anyone. No fish, no food. I just hope we get Bush out as soon as we can sowe can repair the damage Bush has done. As to your point who pays taxs and all, well I hope you are not saying then they can do whatever and where ever they want. Feel free to come in theses parts and look what they did to WV. Still Pickin' Bill H.
Tudris	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 2:03 PM I'm not sure I enjoy the elitist attitude saying, "I have the right information, and you don't." If we're so wrong (I'll admit though; some of the things said here are pretty off-base), PLEASE points out some SAFE media outlets which guarantee untainted, unbiased information, because apparently there are only two people in the WORLD who have it. Not trying to be harsh, but it seems a little wrong that one would walk to a pit, see all the people in it, say, "This is sad," and then walk off smugly...without even pointing out why being in that pit was such a bad thing in the first place. What'll it take to get through to you, precious?
EmpireDay3	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 7:25 PM see, this is why I didn't really want to get involved in this thread - I certainly don't want to offend or argue with anyone - I love all you guys! My assertion is that for those who posted such profoundly inaccurate things in this thread is that perhaps some more time and care and thought should have gone into them, or should go into them in the future. Rather than regurgitate information spewed by a one-sided, politically motivated liberal media, all avenues and opinions should be investigated. For example, watch CNN and then watch the fox news channel. Same stories, entirely different presentation, eh? Some good sources of alternate opinions: drudgereport.com, rasmussenreports.com, washingtonpost.com - and there are plenty. To get to the heart of the matter, one must process the facts from all sides - listen to the new liberal radio, then listen to rush. watch some larry king, then watch some hannity. I dislike both al franken and rush limbaugh, but they both have some very good points and some intelligent, educated opinions. So, rather than call me elitist, how about calling me nonconfrontational instead, because I never wanted to have one - I would just like to see a little less hate based in misinformation - it just makes people look like they're hating Bush either because they've been told they should, or it makes them look silly when their statements and the truth don't match up. And when that happens, it is sad. That is why being in this pit is bad and why I am walking off - misquoted misinformation spouted by misguided people. Now, instead of wrangling over it, let's get back to the music! Tudris, I love your stuff by the way, right up my alley!
MisledMayhem	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 9:38 PM Bush is quite dumb, his cabinate is smart and run his politics for him, he is simply a figure head. It's good to have discussions like this because it gets people to evaluate what they think and re-evaluate, ok ok, I'll even bend a little, Bush is tied with Nixon. There, not quite the worst in my book, but top 2! But bottom line, if he gets elected, no abortion, draft, no gay rights, and maybe a war in Korea. He hasn't completed his elimination of the axis of evil, my bet that if he is re-elected he'll try. War isn't the answer to this kind of problem, it's one gigantic culture clash, and simply invading and taking it over wont solve the problem. It will just make it worse.
Tudris	Date: April 24, 2004 @ 10:11 PM I wasn't trying to offend anyone either. I just don't like being clumped under the title of regurgitator or conformist. The outlets you pointed out are all outlets which I read frequently, thanks for mentioning them. A few of the things said here were inaccurate, but it just seemed to me that everyone was being ridiculed as a whole. Besides, I wrote that in the morning when I was rather irritable in general. In my own defense, I consider myself to be an independent thinker (but I suppose everyone does). I'm definitely a liberal, but, for example, I'm against abortion. I'm not one to vote along party lines or watch CNN all day (which, in some cases, is quite different from Fox ). I'm glad you like my music... I'll have to check yours out too.
Woof	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 1:52 AM I'll try and keep this simple. There are plenty of people in America, who believe that trickle down economic theory works. Ashliegh, that's what I was referring to, when I mentioned that people will vote for Bush, to save on taxes. Maybe that's fair... maybe we deserve to be subject to a class heirarchy that rewards those who have secured wealth, first and foremost. I happen to believe it's not an effective economic theory, but that's just me... and it's okay for folks to disagree with that. I also agree that Saddam was a bad man. I think just about everybody agrees that he was. I have no problem with his being taken out of power. I'm not, and have not ever, implied that I'd like to see him put back. I don't think anybody has a problem with that. I don't have a problem with the reason we went into Iraq, in the first place. If we believed there were WMD's there, and they were a threat to national security, I was willing to admit I, for one, wasn't the person to say they were or weren't. I started having problems with our position there, when Bush himself stated that our mission there was to free the Iraqi people. That's not the reason we were given, when we went in. It was as if Bush was saying: "Well, the WMD rationale wasn't valid, so THIS is the REAL reason we're there". And the American public, by and large, bought that. And so it continues, to this day. So Saddam is a bad man. There are plenty of bad men, in plenty of countries. Is America going to take it upon itself, then, to be guardian of the world? From what I've seen so far, our involvement in Iraq set a precident where we are now in a position to go where we please, and take out whomever we want. Regardless of world opinion. I'm not saying that's inevitable, but under certain leadership, it's a possibility one has to consider. Finally, last time I checked, we still had free speech. Questioning authority, and open discussion on subjects exactly like this, are part of democracy. Some people are very studied, some are not. But regardless, sharing opinions, even ones as sensitive as discussed here, is essential to developing growth and understanding. Implying that voices should be stifled, until such time as we can all go back to school, seems more counterproductive, than writing what we think and feel, and attempting to make sense of what's going on in our government. The things I write have my nick attached to them, and I'm fairly certain that if I write something inaccurate, it's not going to reflect on the DMusic community as a whole. We're each responsible as individuals, for our own words. I'm not here to engage in flames, or to make enemies. I'm here to discuss, which is what forums are for.
billhudson	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 10:12 AM OK, Lets all look at it this way Bush and his crew is not a friend of the earth. This is a no brainier, just look, and read who is in office and read where they come from. It’s all there for one to read. To say he is (meaning Bush) is just silly and my thinking is Bush is betting you don’t look any deeper. So in that department, just read about where theses folks are from and how they think. They are turning back the laws to keep your air and water clean. Just again read what they are doing, it’s all there. The oceans have places that are now dead, meaning there is no life. We have to get this guy (Baby Bush) out and out very soon. As to the war for oil….. How did all this get started? If I really did believe theses folks it sounded like Iraq was going to hit us very soon. That is what Bush wanted us to believe. But in real it’s just what they wanted us to think. But all took the bait and the press took went along for the ride. I remember marching against this war in DC. There must have been 600,000 or so. Just to let you know there were many vets there old and young. WW2, Nam, the gulf war. While we were marching there was only one anti-march group. They were yelling,” what about the vets?” A young man to my left yelled back, “USMC here bubby what do you want?” (He was marching with us). I wish I had a camera because the look on all of them. Still Pickin’ Bill
mtekk	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 12:57 PM
blubat	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 1:04 PM Just to point this out. There is no right information out there. You cant possibly belive that one source is right and the other wrong (truly that is.) Look at the New York Times WhiteWash, and the Three war theory. Its impossible to believe what is reported to us from any source unless youve experienced it or researched it yoursef so technically all of us every single one of us in this thread posting information from a source they havent verified completely could be wrong. Anyways i just felt like pointing this out. and so we go on with our lives we know the truth but prefer lies, lies are simple. simple is bliss.
mtekk	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 1:04 PM empireday, exactly what i'm thinking
Tudris	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 5:01 PM Okay, according to mtekk's theory, a few bad people part of a line of thinking make that entire line of thinking inherently wrong. Our liberals in the RIAA, MPAA, etc are bad, but do they compare to these conservatives: Adolph Hitler Joseph Stalin Saddam Hussein Osama bin Laden I could list more, but I'm not. Why? Because the only reason I'm saying this is to show how ridiculous such an argument is. Yes, those are real conservatives. But I'm not about to think that all conservatives are evil. Just like you shouldn't think all liberals are DMCA founders and RIAA members. And, on a personal note, the Patriot Act is more offensive to me than the DMCA, not to dampen the intolerable DMCA. So mtekk, please read 1984 yourself before you start talking bad on the liberals for it. Give me some proof that Kerry is the devil's child, and I'll believe that you aren't ignorant.
mtekk	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 6:11 PM I've already read 1984. It is true that not all librals are evil In my previous post i was trying to point out some of the beliefs of most librals, and how they fail. Liberalism = socialism, socialism is the little brother of Communism. It's true and don't try to deny it. Librals believe in big government, so does a socialist and a communits, along with saddam hussein, adolph hitler, and Joseph Stalin. Big governemt leads to a 1984 scenerio Librals believe in taxing thoes who make more a year a higher percentage of their earnings, then thoes who make less a year. Which basically punnishes thoes who succede, that isn't fair to punnish thoes who work hard and reward thoes who don't work as hard (now obviously not all poor are lazy, and not all the people that are trying to be rich are hard working.) this usually leads to the end of a government as the people revolt as the economy comes to a crash since no one seems to want to do anything anymore (kinda what happened in the former Soviet Union). What I'm trying to point out is the John Kerry is rich, not trying to become rich, but he is rich. He inherated it all and payed all thoes taxes. Now if he is corrupt, which I'm guessing he is because all politions are corrupt, he will try to stay rich and keep the poor, poor, so that he can keep up on his high throne. That's why I think he is evil, because he want's to punnish me as I try to make my way up, he doesn't want common folk like me to be up where he is so he is going to tax me to death so I can't make it. Bush is alot better than Kerry could ever be.
MisledMayhem	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 9:31 PM wow........you frighten me, no joke, you sound like Pat Buchanan, or that guy from hardball lol Saying that liberals are the next best thing to Communism, is like the same thing as me telling you that Republicans are closit fasciests. It's more complicated than that. But yes, I am very glad you are not President, we'd be fighting everyone and abolishing the middle class and giving all the wealth to a 15% upper class, abolishing civil rights, and outlawing women in the work place. You have just made me appreciate how Bush is not the worst thing that could ever happen, you are. God, the world would be so so scary if you were in charge, thanks for doing your best George W. even if you did get in only because your dad was President, and although you are underqualified, at least you are not utterly insane, at least not yet lol But seriously, you scare me mettek, today i have just become religious, thank you Jesus that mettek is stuck in his own little town, and i pray to you that he never gets out to destroy the world. amen
Tudris	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 10:21 PM I'm not gonna deny that socialism is close to communism. But hey, who says communism is a bad thing? Just because we haven't seen one work yet doesn't mean it can't work. A lot of countries failed trying democracy before the US came along, and we nearly failed at it as well (read: the Confederated States of America, and I'm not talking about the Civil War). No, I'm not a communist. Just trying to point a few things out. And, by the way, liberalism != socialism. In fact, the US is the only industrialized nation without an influencing socialist party. You may say that it just makes us better, but we're also among the worst educated in the industrialized world. I think you're proof of that (I jest). You my friend have a distorted view of taxes. You look at them as punishment. Excuse me, but taxes are what send the kids to school (not that it's very effective right now, as stated above), maintain the power grid, and build roads so you can drive your gas-chugging SUV on the smoothest surfaces (by the way, when we run out of fossil fuels, no amount of money will be able to buy any, so stop acting like nothing is going on there). It's not about "punishing" the biggest achievers. And there's another thing you have wrong: money != success, and money is not always the result of being a good person or being blessed by God. On the contrary, more often than not it isn't. But moving along to the topic sentence of this paragraph. It's not about "punishing" the people with the most money. It's about the people to whom society has given the most giving back. If you have a lot of money (whether you gained it honestly or not), it's the result of getting a lot from the country. So give back. Besides, it's not like you're going to run out just because of taxes. To drive the point further, let's look at your concept of a tax system. Take a trailer park kid. His family, by no fault of their own, doesn't have a lot of money (let's say their grandfather died with a lot of debt which was left to them, or maybe they lost everything in a natural disaster; it really isn't relevant to the scenario.) Because this family doesn't have a lot of money, they can't afford the homes that are near good homes, good roads, reliable electricity, clean water, etc. Obviously, society's not giving them a whole lot. So, given that they use poor schools and infrastructure, why should they be paying the same amount as people whose kids go to the best schools and drive on the best roads in their Hummer 2's? The economy crashing simply isn't a realistic scenario. Granted, we have a lot of homeless people, but they're in a very slim minority. Most everyone else is trying to get back on their feet. Truthfully, I think the lower class work much harder for lower wages. A guy laying down railroad ties in an Oklahoma heat wave isn't being paid nearly as much as the CEO in his air-conditioned office making all those "tough decisions". I certainly hope that those decisions aren't breaking his back, or setting him up for arthritis.
sinai	Date: April 25, 2004 @ 11:04 PM communism itself is a good idea. it's just not good in mass practice. it works on a deserted island with 10 people, it's impossible for a nation of millions
Izekial	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 12:07 AM Do you guys read all the responses? I can't. There's too much to read. Remember, the American people have a very short attention span, so you have to break things down. Political debates make my butt hurt. Kind of like those hard seats they have on C-Tran. Why don't they fix that? Same thing with politics: Why don't people shut the fuck up about it? I'm ignorant for saying that? I'm not helping? Good God... ever stop to think that neither are you with all your incessant bitching and debating? Where is this getting us, exactly? How is this changing things? People in Iraq don't sit around and cry about politics. They teach their kids how to use guns and kick ass. Now that's something. Sure, they're not getting anywhere and we're all living in a mortal hell because of it, but at least it's more bearable than coming to a music site to run into stuff like this. You've got underground "heroes" like NOFX and all these other messiahs coming out and getting all political at rock shows, and it's driving me up the God damn wall. I don't go to shows to talk about old men and religious zealots making deals with North Korea. If they nuke us they nuke us. Other countries get attacked all the time, and that's just how life is. They go on. And fuck the President in the ear. America was kicking ass until we went to war. We're over there because some guy that's not even worth mentioning crashed some planes into some buildings. It's propaganda. It's wank vision for the Bush Administration. And if I see one more God damn mother fucking country music video where the band is glorifying the war I'm moving to fucking Canada.
johnnygnote	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 1:45 AM " id="97113">Ashleigh, you may be right "Carter, FDR, Nixon" as well as CLinton, Ford, Johnson, .. but no president has ever caused so many countries in the world to hate us as there are now, and single handedly destroyed any detent created by previous administrations. And spare me the flag waving we gotta get the bad guys Bullshit... The BUsh is destroying the economics of this country and the future of my children with his pistol packing John Wayne routine.
blubat	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 11:53 AM Tudris- Right on the money. Sinai- You are absolutely right Izekial - You think NOFX is bad go see Anti-Flag http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html a well done flash animation of the florida scandal. Agree or disagree with it i dont care but have a look its interesting and its well done.
sqrlcub	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 12:32 PM Empireday3, quoting the Washington Times (note I didn't say the post) isn't a good idea. Unless of course you support the Moonies and other cultist ideology. If you didn't know, the Times is owned by the Moonies and is basically a paper written to further their agenda. Sources: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/unification/wtimes.htm http://www.fair.org/extra/best-of-extra/washington-times.html Etc, Really too many to name. Put "washington times" moonies into a google search and you will get many more hits. I loathe the current president but I will just leave it at that. Other's have said similar things to what I would have pointed out.
ThreeMileIsland	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 2:26 PM Michael Moore is a turd...
sinai	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 3:42 PM wow...bill clinton did all that? i would have thought he'd have been too busy building the greatest economy in the history of the Earth. or at least since we've started keeping track, but that doesnt sound as cool.
Izekial	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 4:34 PM "Michael Moore is a turd..." Hahaha! Yes...! Yeah, now that I think about it, the guy DOES look like a lincoln log. He'd be one of those softball turds, though, the kind that rips your asshole open after ejecting him. God damn that's funny... or it's just too early for me to be up right now.
MisledMayhem	Date: April 26, 2004 @ 11:17 PM but bowling for columbine did rock! I don't read his books though, I'm with the no attention span man, too booring, I let one of my political friends read it, then tell me about it lol
Woof	Date: April 27, 2004 @ 5:21 AM Well, with all due respect, Misled, I've gotta side with EmpireDay on this. At least to a point. Basing your understanding of politics on third party information, is usually a way of getting less than the truth, about an issue. Sure, I think Moore's an incredibly thoughtful commentator (although I don't agree with 100% of what he says, he always makes me think), and I'm sure the people you're getting your information from are far from dim... but the first law of good reporting, is stick to what you can prove, and verify. Verify several times over, for that matter. I'm talking about getting the facts from as many reliable news sources as possible. Where I tend to disagree with EmpireDay, is that I really don't see a lot of value in reading, listening to, or watching propoganda... either left or right wing. Some people I find interesting, like Moore, Ralph Nader, Giuliani (who explained our involvement in Iraq better to me, than Bush ever did), but none of those folks are giving out pure fact to the public. They're giving their own interpretations. They've done their research, before they speak. In other words, the facts get spin put on 'em. It might sound good when they say it, but it might not be the whole truth, either. When it comes to Bush, what I personally have seen in his behavior, and some of the things he's tried to accomplish while in office, strike me as inconsistent, erratic, and impulsive... and I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of someone like that leading our country. And that's just about 100% from what I've seen him say in his own words, and things he's done while in office. And that's what I'm basing my vote on, come November. Of course, I don't REALLY believe he's a "power-crazed tyrant" or an "incubus"... but I ALSO don't believe those terms are 100% pulled out of the sky, either... So, to sum it up... let me just say I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you've said, but IMHO, your points would carry a lot more weight, backed up with a little more of your own research... and let me tell ya, I do believe we can use all the weight we can muster... these are times like I've never seen in my lifetime...
billhudson	Date: April 27, 2004 @ 10:12 AM Woof you make some good points and I don't know why someone would say someone is way to the left. In all subjects one has to look at both sides of things. The thing that scares me about Bush is who he has put into office. It says a lot about him. And if one care to read the "facts" of who theses people are well, its like putting in the wolves with the chickens. So yes if one does a bit of digging or research its all there to read. And yes theses times are a bit strange and more the reason to get out there and sing. No matter how different folks are (I have seen this so many times) music just melts it all away. Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
blubat	Date: April 27, 2004 @ 1:24 PM Damn Bill Hudson you rule. About the reliable source. Woof please tell me what a reliable source is besides the information you have gathered yourself. It might be a bitter way to look at it but there really isnt such thing as a reliable source as i said above. The fact that major newspapers like the new york times can lie about facts(Cambodia, Rwanda) or even not report wars (East Timoor) because they dont want the public to really know whats going on. Ok so you ay my points are outdated...look at CNN's coverage of the war on iraq i dont think they showed a single dead american soldier at the crucial point in the war where ubsh was trying to gain support. I agree that information should be gathered and verified but just how much verification can you really do tosay you are completely accurate no matter what your opinion is gonna be skewed because the person or thing or place you got it from is going to be biased as well. i dont even if this made sense i just rambled...anyways i think youll all get the gist of it.
billhudson	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 10:38 AM OK, just to show you Bush's another one of the wolves. This guy has blood on his hands and now he going to be the ambassador to Iraq? Again folks do some reading and see the damage this guy did. It's Negroponte's time as ambassador to Honduras from 1981 to 1985 that is the most controversial. He has been accused of covering up human rights abuses by death squads to Congress in order to keep the money flowing to aid U.S.-backed Contras. I wish the dead could speak. NAME -- John Dimitri Negroponte. AGE; BIRTH DATE -- 64; born July 21, 1939 EDUCATION -- B.A., Yale University, 1960. EXPERIENCE -- Ambassador to the United Nations, 2001-present; executive vice president, McGraw-Hill Cos., 1997-2001; ambassador to the Philippines, 1993-96; ambassador to Mexico, 1989-93; deputy national security adviser, 1987-89; assistant secretary of state, oceans, international environmental, scientific affairs, 1985-1987; ambassador to Honduras, 1981-85; deputy assistant secretary of state, East Asian and Pacific affairs, 1980-81; deputy assistant secretary of state, oceans and fisheries, 1977-79. Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
sinai	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 7:28 PM don't go outside, or a terrorist will kill you
billhudson	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 7:31 PM lol, no sinai1 maybe get picked up by one of the Bush people for speaking out i.e. terrorist? Still Pickin' Bill H.
Jesuszilla	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 8:30 PM "He doesn't have the metal capability of being a President" All that country, innit.
sinai	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 8:51 PM or, if your brave enough to risk a terrorist attack, ya gotta wear your facemask or you may catch SARS
Woof	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 10:42 PM Blubat, sorry this reply took so long... By "reliable source" I simply meant listen to and watch the man himself, and what he's proposing... then check the facts against economic theory, unemployment figures, the stock market, and the day to day reports out of Iraq... not some commentators' opinion of what it all means, though... just listen, and draw your own conclusions... For example, if I remember correctly, wasn't Bush proposing some sort of Mars mission a couple of months back? Like, right up until the last shuttle disaster? At the time, we still had something like 3 and a half Americans out of work, and if I remember correctly, the mission was going to cost something like 3 and a half billion... I remember thinking how ironically the figures lined up... but it's been awhile, and I haven't given it much thought since then. See... those are the kind of things that strike me as frivolous and/or impulsive... but that's just how it strikes me. Whatever opinions you can draw from that, the fact remains that Bush proposed it, in his own words. I dont mean to make a big deal out of just that one thing, though... for me, it was just another thing that sounded more like an election year attention getter, instead of a plan for economic recovery... then Iraq heated up, the shuttle burned up, and it was forgotten... Stuff like that, though... small things add up... put enough of 'em together, and it paints its' own picture.
Woof	Date: April 28, 2004 @ 10:46 PM Oops... that's "3 and a half MILLION Americans out of work"... sorry...
MisledMayhem	Date: April 29, 2004 @ 2:20 AM News, that's one thing that I think Bowling for Columbine had that was right on. The news is only there to freak people out, SARS!! TERRORISTS!!! MUSLIMS!!!! LOCK YOUR DOORS!!! ATOMIC WASTE!!!! WAR IN THE STREETS!!!! GANGS!!!! PROTECT YOURSELF!!!! Anything going wrong is worth putting in the news.
Tudris	Date: April 29, 2004 @ 5:40 AM "Muslims" are an example something going wrong? Well, I suppose the news does make it appear as such.
sinai	Date: April 29, 2004 @ 5:20 PM and all the hair products and pollutants that'll kill ya if a terrorist doesn't kill you first why does this country have to be full of a bunch of goddamn paranoid pussies?
MisledMayhem	Date: April 29, 2004 @ 10:01 PM that's what I'm implying, I'm not against muslims at all, I'm just saying that everytime some terrorist thing happens, the first thing they say is "a MUSLIM terrorist group ATTACKED the USA in IRAQ where we ....invaded" note the parts that draw attention in capital letters lol And then Bush goes ranting about how it's the path of JJJJESSSUS CHRIST that led him to go into Iraq. and to sinai1 i don't know, Americans seem to be really afraid of everything, the movie really highlights that well, i could recount all that it said, or you can just go rent it or something, or if you've seen it, ya alreday know what I'm gettin at. Or maybe I'm just ramblin on about nothing lol WHO KNOWS!?!?! AHHHH HHAAHAHAHA...

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