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do you want to hear the truth about your music?

bastardo23	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 12:51 PM just wondering what the consensus is? should we kiss eachothers bottoms, or should we tell one another what we actually think of the music.
JohnnyBB	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 1:39 PM I welcome all commentary both positive in negative. Its actually sort of disconcerting that I havent recieved any negative comments. Although nobodies left any thumbs down, which is anonymous, so maybe my music is just that damn good! har har
EmpireDay3	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 2:10 PM yes, please. Maybe not in a simon cowell sort of way, maybe a paula abdul sort of thing. like "you're music is catchy, the bassline was thumpin, but those lyrics are kind of silly" or something like that. that is, after all, the point of criticism - to make one strive to be better, yes? if one were to get a bunch of critiques with a theme, they'd then be able to identify a problem area and potentially make improvements. bands would be able to identify weak areas (and perhaps weak members). good call - yeah for honesty.
cryo-e	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 2:53 PM at the end of the day, if it's shit, it's shit. some of my tunes are definately shit, judjeing by what some of my m8's have said when i've snided them onto a cd in between other trax, on the other hand, some have got quite a good reception so i can't complain. so i don't mind, if it's shit, i'd rather be told than think it's good when everyone else hates the noise they're listenin to.
thedarkaeons	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 3:18 PM It'd be nice if someone would LISTEN to our music, let alone take the time to comment it and rate it.
100thmonk	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 3:24 PM i appreciate constructive criticism and friendly praise as well..
synthsect	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 5:17 PM i agree, constructive criticism is always welcome. like cryo-e said id rather be told that its balls than torture everyone.
noimportante	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 8:14 PM CRITIC IT.. http://www.noimportante.com/resources/itsyourlife.mp3 Be brutal.
victorsskull	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 8:40 PM I dont give a shit today just grumpy I guess
Cryxan	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 9:34 PM People say that they want honest comments, and people say that they give honest comments. But you find a lot of pretty bad music with wonderful comments and huge compliments.
kyodylee	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 10:16 PM Well, I don't think all artists here have their music on DMusic for the same reasons. Obviously, there are serious musicians here who have high quality tracks, great production and major talent. Others just seem like they are playing around a bit, experimenting, having fun and don't take themselves seriously at all. Then there is everyone else in-between. I have no musical training whatsoever; therefore, I don't feel I am qualified to give any constructive criticism. I only know what I like and dislike. But that's just a matter of personal taste. Nothing more. So, if I like a song, I'll let the artist know. If I don't like a song, I just don't say anything. What would be the point. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it isn't good or that many other people won't like it. I have noticed in reading older posts that Gene Hilbert was very adept at giving both compliments and constructive criticism within a single comment. I believe he was a very highly regarded DMusic member and his unfortunate departure has left a large void for those that would appreciate constructive criticism. He left some very big shoes to fill. For those artists that would like constructive criticism along with the compliments, they can put a note to that effect in their notes on their artist page. That way people won't be afraid of offending someone. Look at me ramble on. I'm not even an artist. I'll be quiet now. Carry on.
Thaspian	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 10:30 PM I haven't seen one bad comment on here, unless the two users absolutely hated each other, and there is some downright horrible music here. At least one person, out of the many regulars at this site, should say "I dislike this music" in the comments. It's impossible for a site with so many artists, to all have music that can please all of the listeners here. They all have different tastes, and they all can't like all of the different types of music here. I think it's mainly because people have lower standards for independent music than for industry music, so they'll rate it as a good song as long as it has a halfway decent melody and sounds like a song. Just a theory.
johnnygnote	Date: May 1, 2004 @ 11:04 PM GO for it!! Tell me what you think "honestly" http://johngarza.dmusic.com/
MyxMas	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 12:02 AM Personally I know my work needs.. errm work. constructive criticism does'nt bother me, in fact I welcome it.. cause I dont' want to be told my music is good and be laughed out of nashville or where-ever. The thing is, most the time I beat you all to it and will post my own criticism..lol. I am not a muscian( couldn't be if if I wanted to), but I do sing and I do write lyrics and it's important to me that they come across both in style and sound as being professional even if the tracks behind them are bad. So while I dread being told "I SUCK"..it would be nice ( once I have more than one piece up )to see comments like..." good overall presence, but.. you might try this blah blah. I think that's what helps us strive to be better artists in the long run.
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 12:38 AM I got the advice from a producer to put up a really crappy song and see what everyone says about it. If they are all the same kinds of comments like the comments on my other work, obviously this isn't a great place to get real, honest feedback. I'd rather hear the honest opinions and criticism than the fluff and stuff. As long as people aren't being "evil" or "nasty" about it, I'd prefer it over the bullshit anyday. "I want you to hit me as hard as you can": http://devonpowell.dmusic.com
pog	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 5:08 AM The trouble with asking people to be honest with you is it's basically a way of saying "I'm insecure with my tracks, and I want to know whats wrong with them" the fact of the matter is... don't be... If you've been working hard on your songs, then you should reward yourself and acknowledge this The reality of it to me is... a song is not simply a collection of words, or notated chords. There is no black and white to music (one of the main reasons I'm so attracted to music). It has many variables, and grey (gray) areas... Certain factors must be considered, such as genre, perfect time, feel, mixing quality, the character of the person making the song. Most of us tend to be our own worst critics, which is good in a way 'cos it makes us work harder at bettering ourselves. Then we occasionally listen back to stuff we did 3 years ago, and go "dang ! that's so cool... wish I was still that good"... ya see what I'm saying. It's like we work so hard on a track and all it's complexities, it takes tha magic out of it for us as artists. It's comparable to the way we desensitise rude words
MyxMas	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 8:40 AM You have an excellant point there pog. I think my biggest problem is comparing myself to other artists work and thinking.. daaamn.. I'll never be that good. The worst feeling... for me at least, is KNOWING .. ' I can do this genre with the right background track and not having the means to accomplish what I'm trying to do because of lack of equipment, knowledge or money. It's very frustrating to say the least. But then again, I'm sure we all have those problems in one form or another. And while I may seem to be insecure with my music, I'm actually not. I'm just a realist about my work and will say so. I think thats what keeps me striving to do better..or find others to collab with to help me make those dreams a reality if I'm not able to do it on my own. No shame in that
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 10:16 AM Pog is right, there are many factors to consider, and for me that's the point. There are SO many factors to consider, I can't possibly know them all... I'm not insecure about my songs. I want to know what other people, hopefully with some different or more musical knowledge, have to say about them. I'm not much of a country guitarist, or classical or flamenco or bossanova, soloist, etc...I'm a pretty decent rhythm guitarist. People with skills in these and other areas I'm not strong in (percussion, wind/other stringed instruments, etc) would make for wonderful feedback-givers, in my case, as they would provide insights into ways of playing I likely cannot see as well. That's what a producer does (a good one) in effect, I've found. They push you/open you up/move you to go as far as you can musically, and sometimes even beyond that. Because they are (usually) far more accomplished/eclectic in a broader range of areas, they are better able to hear/see different things. They can bring new elements to your music/songs based on their unique knowledge and experience, which includes passion, feel, etc. That's what I hope for when I ask people for honest feedback. For someone to say something that might help me to consider another possibility I haven't thought of/seen before in a song. Yes, I'm my own worst critic, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to be able to push myself/see or hear something just because of my critcism. I'm still limited by what I've got inside me, and the only way to expand on that is to learn more/new things. Other people's ears/eyes/senses/emotions/experiences are a great reflector and can, for me at least, be just as helpful, if not more-so, than my own.
geetarman	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 11:17 AM Devon, that is a great comment! I belong to NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Assc Int'l). We meet one night per month and critque each others songs. It's a great help because if I hear the same comment from two or more people then I know I've got a problem. And I have made changes because of these honest critques. As writers we are too close to our songs. We cannot be totally objective. However, members that send in songs to be reviewed have a problem with the song critiques. Many members complain that the reviews are too harsh. Recently we found out a majority of the reviews were by gospel and religious songwriters. Well, you can imagine a beer drinking, honky tonk song would not be reviewed well by the Sunday, tea drinking crowd. But, the writer is sitting there thinking they must be truly un-talented. A critique of a song by somebody out of their genre is not going to do well in a review. So in my opinion I think the person doing the review should first state what is their musical background. Perhaps we could have a set of icons to state what genre we are. Country, Rock, Pop, Metal, HipHop etc. Then give their review of the song. Obviously that's not going to mean a good review within somebodys own genre but at least you know where the person is coming from musically. I think all of the good reviews is a good thing. Nobody knows each other and they are trying to reach out and create a friendship through their comments. The saying is true, "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say it.) I've given out some constructive critique's to members here and I never heard back from them. I am sure they viewed me in a negative light afterwards. And one last thing, I don't see major artists uploading songs seeking critques. I haven't seen Kid Rock around here seeking any opinions. And why is that!
geetarman	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 11:49 AM Devon, that is a great comment! I belong to NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Assc Int'l). We meet one night per month and critque each others songs. It's a great help because if I hear the same comment from two or more people then I know I've got a problem. And I have made changes because of these honest critques. As writers we are too close to our songs. We cannot be totally objective. However, members that send in songs to be reviewed have a problem with the song critiques. Many members complain that the reviews are too harsh. Recently we found out a majority of the reviews were by gospel and religious songwriters. Well, you can imagine a beer drinking, honky tonk song would not be reviewed well by the Sunday, tea drinking crowd. But, the writer is sitting there thinking they must be truly un-talented. A critique of a song by somebody out of their genre is not going to do well in a review. So in my opinion I think the person doing the review should first state what is their musical background. Perhaps we could have a set of icons to state what genre we are. Country, Rock, Pop, Metal, HipHop etc. Then give their review of the song. Obviously that's not going to mean a good review within somebodys own genre but at least you know where the person is coming from musically. I think all of the good reviews is a good thing. Nobody knows each other and they are trying to reach out and create a friendship through their comments. The saying is true, "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say it.) I've given out some constructive critique's to members here and I never heard back from them. I am sure they viewed me in a negative light afterwards. And one last thing, I don't see major artists uploading songs seeking critques. I haven't seen Kid Rock around here seeking any opinions. And why is that!
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 12:54 PM Geetarman: I completely agree, and hear what you are saying about different genre's and comments/critiques. Yea, it would likely not bode well to be reviewed/critiqued by the church-going crew if you're WAY over on the other side of that spectrum (and vice-versa I'd imagine to some degree). I think your idea about stating your background up front is fantastic, and having icons for it is as well! I'll have to start doing that. The only issue I can foresee possibly coming up is those who are multi-genre'd, or hard to categorize. And what about people like me, who play what I would categorize as "folk-pop" but appreciate and can speak to other genre's easily, such as Rock, Metal, Electronic, etc (I was the GM of my college radio station and have been involved in various music scenes for years). Maybe stating your closest general genre for your own personal music, and some of your own experience would be helpful? Even better, having some sort of signature function incorporated in the DM site would make it easier, as people could put their musical background right there, which could/would show up with every comment posting automatically. Hmm..I see a suggestion forthcoming.
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 12:57 PM Oh, and Kid Rock doesn't come in here for critiquing because he has a possee of people from the record label on down to the producer (as well as his own personal musical friends I'm sure) doing all of that...and they are the one's who, supposedly, have their fingers on the collective "pulse" of the musical industry, which I think is supposed to include what's "sellable" "hot" etc..and what's "not". But, for example, in the movie industry they do screen movies prior to releasing them, often with a random, blind selection of the general public. That's pretty cool, I think, as it gives them (the industry) and idea of the reaction people could/might have to it...
MyxMas	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 1:52 PM Which is another excellant point Devon. That still leaves the question of where the Indies go from here. We have quiet a few talented Individuals here from all genre's , and I have to agree with geetarman that it would be a very good idea if we could help one another in our critiques based on the genre of music/instrument etc... that one is most (adept?) at. Say for instance.. I write lyrics ( which I do ) for pretty much all genre's..Now if another lyricist thought.. " no.. those lyrics just dont fit that genre, they would best be used for this genre etc., and explains how he/she feels they are, then to me that is constructive criticism. Not in that the artist doing the critiqueing thinks the lyrics are bad, but in that he believes they are best suited for other genre's. To me, That's helpful, providing the artist has had experience as a lyricist, and knows what he/she is talking about and not just saying it to be vindictive.
Jesuszilla	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 6:39 PM As the old adage goes, "One person's shit is another person's bacon sandwich with tomato ketchup and that nice French bread what you get in the supermarket."
sqrlcub	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 7:31 PM I like getting constructive criticism. Saying someone's music sucks and not saying why in an intelligent way doesn't help me grow at all. I would rather have someone say that something specifically didn't work so I can think about it and figure if I agree. It is very difficult to look at your own creation with that type of critical eye. I generally try to tell the person I am critiquing something that worked and something that I think that could use improvement or didn't work to my ears. I like getting that type of criticism. It gives me a direction in places that need attention. That isn't saying I don't like glowing reviews as well. Many of my songs I have worked on for a hell of a long time and I like to know when something really just hits chords with someone as well.
figfarmer	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 7:56 PM noimportante, Your song was surprisingly good, not what I'd release as a single, but good enough to put on an album. I found the drumming a bit annoying in spots.
figfarmer	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 8:06 PM Johnnygnote! Wow, I am impressed. I think your avatar does you a dis-service because I looked at it and thought, "He can't be worth a serious listen." What can i say? I listened to most of a few songs. You kind of remind me of a cross between Harry Chapin and Chris deBurgh, with a bit of Pete Seeger tossed in for spice. I think if you went for the bigger band sound like Chapin did you'd really fly.
figfarmer	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 8:15 PM DevonPowell, Not bad, but not great either. I think part of it is the presentation, intros that nearly put me to sleep and no drums to fully awaken me. I didn't dislike it, but I can't find anything to rave about either.
figfarmer	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 8:16 PM Ok, you wanna pick on me now. www.soundclick.com band name Phybes.
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 8:59 PM Figfarmer: First, thanks for listening to my music. I'm sorry, I can't figure out soundclick easily enough to find your music (direct link, please) and I'm not registered there, so little help needed. Secondly, I will be honest in return, and hopefully this will not come across in a poor manner. While I appreciate your comments and taking the time to listen, the comments you left are exactly of the type we're saying aren't very constructive. Here's what I mean... #1. You didn't state your particular genre, or background, and since you don't have any music up on this site, I can't listen to any of your songs at the moment and glean an idea of what your genre/background may be. #2. Your comments are what I would call "general". I don't expect everyone to like my music, in fact I more fully expect to find that many people do NOT like it, which I think is a reasonable attitude. So, I appreciate your candor, but telling me that it's "not bad, but not great either", doesn't help me in any way to grow musically. What it tells me is that my style of music isn't for you, either in regards to the presentation, feel, lyrics, who knows...(you weren't specific enough so I'm guessing here). You got a little more specific with the comment on the presentation-and lack of other instrumentation. However, I did put these songs in the folk genre, which is implied (to me it is at least) that all I might (or could) do with it is leave it as it is...acoustic guitar and vocals (which in fact is not the case, these tracks were recorded live for demo purposes, and the production will come at a later time with backing vocals and other instrumentation). Pretty much what your comments tell me is that you aren't really interested in my music, and that's ok. I don't mind hearing that and knowing there are people out there who won't dig it...and as I said earlier, I expect that. In any case, again, thanks for taking the time to listen.
figfarmer	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 9:14 PM Devon, yes, pretty much disintersted is a fair statement, but not because it is folk, rather because the intros were too long and the music didn't sound inspired. Dylan is folk and I like Dylan. Pete Seeger is folk and I grew up on his stuff. What I was saying is chop the intros and liven it up if you want people to dig it. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/phybesmusic.htm My roots are all over, rock, folk, country.
DevonPowell	Date: May 2, 2004 @ 10:23 PM No, what you are saying is chop the intros and liven it up if I want YOU to dig it... Thanks for the link.
bastardo23	Date: May 3, 2004 @ 12:18 PM fig and devon this is exactly why i started this post. people can seem to take a personal opinion so poorly. figfarmer, usually we put comments next to peoples music, this is a forum thread about commenting... the defensiveness is pointless, and there is no real reason to attack and try and hurt someone, so why would anyone want to argue about such a given opinion. a certain individual has now angrily emailed me three times about one comment, and i suspect that if i don't just stop writing, this will go on forever. all of this because he was hurt by my comment. now what are you doing out there with your neck all naked on the chopping block? why is the music there? so we can all just gently rub each others gonads to ease the pain of the bullshit music industry? you all better learn to take it
redrasta	Date: May 4, 2004 @ 5:14 PM Just for the record, I think us non-musicians have just as much validity in commenting on music as those who perform, simple coz we are the peeps that listen to it. If you want technical criticism, fine...but doesnt criticism from us simple folk count too?
noimportante	Date: May 4, 2004 @ 6:00 PM hey redrasta got a great point. I know when I listen to a new band now its hard to look through the eyes of a fan, because I hear the mix wrong or want a part to come up more. For example. Velvet Revolver had a song on the radio a couple of weeks ago, I couldnt hear Slash, the vox were way back in the mix, I spent the whole song trying to citique it, instead just listening to the Jam. HEy redrasta.. Would you check out our stuff and post your honest opinion? noimportante.dmusic.com
figfarmer	Date: May 6, 2004 @ 9:55 AM Hurt by a comment? That's childish. It appeared that the people who put links to music here wanted comments here. All one can do is give one's own opinion and say "I'd like this if you did that". I certainly can't speak for the music industry in general anyhow or I'd be able to write to please them perfectly every time out. Some people think a song is crap/others think the same song is treasure. Me? I do music to have fun and if I give an opinion it is my honest opinion, nos sugar and no shit.
blubat	Date: May 6, 2004 @ 11:24 AM I like to receive the damn truth...i hate it when peopl ie about my music and you can see it. Its like dude you dont have to sugar coat it just tell us you dont like it... We are the type of band that takes all the comments no matter what... we love the good stuff but we love the bad stuff even more..only because we know we suck already so it doesnt matter. The only thing i dont like is receiving bad comments or thumbsdown's from people who havent even listened to our music...wtf is up with that at least listen to us before telling us we suck...ha! anyways youre all welcome to comment although some of you probably already have. http://blubat.dmusic.com and please tell us what to change etc...none of these songs (besides Friday Night Blizzard and Blushy Girl) have actually been recorded properly...as in mixing and engineering. We just threw em on here cause we felt like it...so if we ever need to record them seriouslyall the constructive comments will aid us. To summarize i basically jst want to say i think constructive comments are what aids a band in its growth no matter what stage of the game you are at. Honesty rules all...im honest when i comment and i expect the same from people who comment me... thats my spiel
kingo	Date: May 6, 2004 @ 12:59 PM I just like it when people listen and tell me their reaction. I like constructive criticism, too, and from the right people I might actually be able to use it; but for the most part I really just want to know what kind of reaction people have. Good or bad or whatever. (this is what I'm sayin' now, anyway.)
blubat	Date: May 6, 2004 @ 1:17 PM hows this HALAKA RULES! you know its the truth
figfarmer	Date: May 7, 2004 @ 10:52 AM blubat, when you actually settle down to do some music you have some good thought process going. Let me give you the same piece of advice that has stood me in good stead throughout the years. "Make everything you do look, sound, and feel like it is done in a professional environment." In other words, trim off the blank spaces and talking. Rehearse, don't jam onto tape. Of what I listened to Yellow Boy most impressed me with its sound, and Bushy Girl with its production. For some reason in Yellow Boy I caught a kind of T-REX feeling, which to me is a good thing as I really like that band. Farmer's Bag reminded me of something Dr. Demento used to spin on his show called In Your Butt.
billhudson	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 12:10 PM very good points figfarmer and maybe that is why it takes me so long in getting my CD out. Miles and miles of tapes. Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
ICF	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 1:12 PM Yeah, i have had lots of help from putting up my stuff but if your gonna lie and say its good when its shit then thats just gonna make us put more rubbish on. Hey i welcome the bad stuff (and ive had plenty) but theres no need to be pure cruel. If you dont like something, tell them and they can act on that and you could contribute to making an awsome song! x
figfarmer	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 1:20 PM Hey Bill. Frankly, we will put the odd bit of stuff we recorded ourselves on the 'net, but when it comes to release material it's time for professional arranging, production, engineering and studio musicians. When you release something you aren't competing with Pog, you are competing with Pearl Jam.
BenRebel	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 1:50 PM Tell me the truth.. you can not please everyone ..someone is not going to like your stuff .. so tell me you do not like it .. all I ask is you tell me why .. that helps you grow
BedroomSessions	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 2:09 PM wow...this thread really caught my interest. theres not a lot which hasnt been said already here- but i just wanted to basically summarise. In overview, I feel its really important to get all types of feed-back- but also constructive in the sense that you maybe make it apparent that its perhaps because of your taste that you dont like it. If it just sucks- then tell the artist, but help them grow as well! The comments made on our song on here have really helped, now were planning to really clean this song up, and add in drums and bass in the coming months- as well as recording new stuff. Its nice to know people like it as well, otherwise we wouldnt want to bother! Im going to go round and listen to some people's stuff, i would appreciate if anyone could give the song on there a listen and place your HONEST comments! take it easy guys, and love your music!
billhudson	Date: May 10, 2004 @ 2:59 PM Simple answer is ......yep If on the net or your CD this is how many chance's you get...1 or thats the way I and others look at it. Or in the studio we look at it this way,"good is not good enought". All that being said it can be a real pain in the ass but after all the sweat and no sleep the song starts to stand on its own and have a life of it's own. Still Pickin' Bill H.
kingo	Date: May 11, 2004 @ 10:09 PM Not to be a dick or anything, but I am in 100% disagreement with you, figfarmer. First off the easiest place for me to show my disagreement -- "When you release something you aren't competing with Pog, you are competing with Pearl Jam." That's just all weird to me. When I release something i'm not in competition with anybody. It's never been about competition for me. Second, "jamming on tape," can get some of the best stuff. It's not black and white -- what you call polished I might think sounds smothered. I'm not against production, I'm not against rehearsing or trying to do your best with a song, but a one off, improvised jam can be just as powerful as something that takes a year to record.
dkeifer	Date: May 11, 2004 @ 10:15 PM There's 10,000 ways of doing something right. Just like there's 10,000 ways of fucking up.
woodhead	Date: May 11, 2004 @ 11:37 PM When I release something i'm not in competition with anybody. It's never been about competition for me. Good point, I play because I love it, and it is my major outlet for life in general, I am in no game, if I made it big cool, but if not I had fun along the way, music to me is more spirtual than anything. Do you know how many ppl would live to be able to play the simplest song, it is amazing, so IMHO we were givin a gift of being able to play music and feel it, and to me is the greates gift of all, I can not even fathom life with out playing music or recording it, a simply incredible gift sure
ShakerGreen	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 12:02 AM Could not agree more Halaka, you have made many good points!!!!!!! so far the stuff I've put here is all "live" taken from various practices, its real and its human, (having mistakes and all,) and this site rocks over sites like garageband.com, where it seems to be all about production, circle jerking ego rubbing and who's the best!! ect ect. here at least I feel comfortable submitting an idea, or a 1/2 finished song. at GB, its seems all about production, and to that, why call it Garageband??? if you went to hear what I sounded like live, there would be NO surprises after listening to what I've uploaded here, so Yes bring on the truthful comments, cuz thats what I'm giving you. Wayne
StefanieNewport	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 12:25 AM -- Anonymous" id="99344"> "The largest room in the world is the room for improvement." -- Anonymous
woodhead	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 1:12 AM "The largest room in the world is the room for improvement."
Intergalacti...	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 11:50 AM you should tell the truth but not in a harsh way like your singin is crap or whatever just say i think a way to improve your vocals is.... Because i know most people havent met on here but in a way we're all mates, owuld yuo say to your mates that he was serioulsy the ugliest guy you had ever met. That would kill them. But you know what I'm gettin at.
figfarmer	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 1:14 PM I have to say you're full of it Hal. When you jam something you aren't competing with anyone, yes. When you perform something you aren't competing with anyone, but when you release something you are competing for airplay and record sales. Maybe you're too wrecked to think so, but no one is going to offer something for sale and not have the hopes that it will out sell anything similar unless they need psychiatry big time.
ShakerGreen	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 2:18 PM What are talking about Pigfarmer, All artists "the moment they open thier mouth to sing or strum the guitar, play the piano, or paint thier painting are "releasing something", certainly not competing with anything, unless you buy into the American Idol crap! the only ones competing are greedy record companies ect ect. the Artist will always just release because thats what they have to do, sorta like breathing, you have to do it regardles of $
Intergalacti...	Date: May 12, 2004 @ 4:19 PM bands release stuff (or originally it was) to communicate with the public. music is all bout communication but nowadayts to many people forget that.
kingo	Date: May 13, 2004 @ 10:52 AM FigFarmer: when I release something I'm not competing for airplay or record sales. "Release" doesn't mean "put on the market for sale," it means (to me,) "make available to be heard." And in that vein, I release things because I want people to hear them. Period. I don't release them because I want people to like them better than X, Y, or Z, or because I want people to buy them. I leave that sort of thing to politicians. If someone hears my music I want them to hear a piece of me. It's almost like expressing an opinion: I don't change my opinion because someone doesn't agree with it. Likewise I don't change my music because someone doesn't like it. Quite simply I don't MAKE IT for people to like it. So maybe I'm wrecked, and maybe I need psychiatry big time. No argument there.
Intergalacti...	Date: May 13, 2004 @ 11:55 AM lol well said no matter how wrecked you are
milladrive	Date: May 13, 2004 @ 9:45 PM Indeed.
robbydadrummer	Date: May 13, 2004 @ 11:15 PM amen... this is exactly what we do in ouch yonder. don't get me wrong, i still enjoy writng and turning an idea into a real song (which is the direction we are heading after my arm heals), but having fun with a jam many times is a release that cannot be reproduced. of course, it all depends on the other musicians with you, and i'm very lucky in that department. :D" id="99649">Quoted from halaka: Second, "jamming on tape," can get some of the best stuff. It's not black and white -- what you call polished I might think sounds smothered. I'm not against production, I'm not against rehearsing or trying to do your best with a song, but a one off, improvised jam can be just as powerful as something that takes a year to record. amen... this is exactly what we do in ouch yonder. don't get me wrong, i still enjoy writng and turning an idea into a real song (which is the direction we are heading after my arm heals), but having fun with a jam many times is a release that cannot be reproduced. of course, it all depends on the other musicians with you, and i'm very lucky in that department.
figfarmer	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 12:23 AM When I say "release" I'm talking about nice shiny stretch wrapped albums. That is the point to it all as far as I can see. If you're just into rattling the spoons and releasing to your granny that's fine, but I want a little more.
milladrive	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 1:02 AM What about moderation? Is it all about selling? If the point to it all is nice shiny stretch wrapped albums, then why do any of us at DMusic "release" the recordings we create? When we speak and post, we're releasing our words. When we record and upload, we're releasing our music. It's just expressing ourselves, and I don't compete with anyone for that. ...and trust me when I say that uploading rattled spoons to DMusic is exposure well beyond granny's ears. Fig, you may want a little more, so, all I can is, good luck in achieving it.
woodhead	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 1:13 AM it means (to me,) "make available to be heard." And in that vein, I release things because I want people to hear them. A true artist, and so true, when an "artist" starts to worry about money more that the art the art suffers, and tha fan suffers, music is a release(escape) from real life and to me the most grounding thing I can do. When we speak and post, we're releasing our words. Dont forget emotion and that inner feeling of ones self.
StefanieNewport	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 2:12 AM wise words wood
robbydadrummer	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 5:54 AM fig, you are losing respect here. i agree completely with woodhead and everyone else. music is about THE MUSIC, first and foremost. making money with it is nice, but definately not the most important thing. if you feel otherwise, you should find something else to do with your time that you will have your heart into. i believe all the other composers and musicians here will agree... you don't force music just to make money, you let it breath and live on it's own until it grows into something you can be proud of. the rest of us seem to have that... a "release" is "any material made available for the public to hear"... putting songs on the net is exactly the same as putting it on "nice shiny stretch wrapped albums". to sell it, you still have to do promotion... if that is your goal, the format is irrelevent. quite frankly, i don't want to write specifically to compete with pearl jam or anyone else on corporate radio... i want to be myself making music the way i want. anything less is too much compromise for something i'm always going to do anyways, whether i make money at it or not. by the way, we make money selling cdr's of our stuff, and they aren't stretch wrapped either. when people enjoy the music, they don't care... it comes back to "being about the music".
figfarmer	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 11:15 AM Making songs is about the music. Releasing songs is about the comprtition. Selling CDs is about the money.
robbydadrummer	Date: May 14, 2004 @ 4:51 PM releasing songs is NOT about competition... that is so incorrect. "releasing" is about making your music available for anybody to hear, whoever it might be. "promotion" is the only competition in all of this.
TheBite	Date: May 17, 2004 @ 10:03 PM Music has never been about the money for me. Sure, a lot of us want to have a career that will let us live comfortably for the rest of our lives, and what a better career than music! But, when I "release" an album on CDBaby.com or the record store down the street, I am doing it to get exposure. Exposure to me is far more valuable than money, because you can gain new fans, get people to listen to what you created. I even think if I ever get a recording contract what will excite me the most is performing for people and gaining exposure through an album. I could have any career I wanted and live comfortably and STILL have my music getting exposure. Exposure is what does it for me. I don't believe in competition in music. Even if let's say, Eminem is higher on the Billboard Charts than Modest m ouse, Modest m ouse still has tons of fans and are still incredible musicians. I personally think that if any musician is in it for the money, then they really don't have that true beautiful concept of music which is sharing it with the world.
figfarmer	Date: May 18, 2004 @ 12:14 AM Any record company exec will tell you that that true beautiful concept of music which is sharing it with the world and a buck and a half will buy you a coffee. A bit of belly button lint and a buck and a half will buy you a coffee too.
Izekial	Date: May 18, 2004 @ 5:38 AM Musicians that think like that should take up a competitive sport, like football or tennis. If you go home after a good show and you’re depressed because you didn’t make very much money, you need to quit right now. Real music is about growth, discovery, objectives… it’s also about dicking off, flying wide, and indulgence. If you need someone to pay you to enjoy it, to revel in something as simple and pure as getting your rocks off because you can, why are you doing it? It’s that kind of mentality I will never adopt. I’ve made a mountain of mistakes in my eight years, but I’ve maintained the right mentality, the spirit and insatiable drive, and that’s what puts me a step ahead of the rest. Musicians who think of this as a competition have no feeling, no imagination, no peace. I have never sized myself up to others, though I’ve been sized up several times by the imposters and the mathematicians, and I can only shake my head and smile sadly… play music for yourself. Share it, celebrate it, masturbate all over it, but don’t lie to yourself. I'll rock until I'm old, dead, and dust, and to hell with the world if it doesn't like it. If it does, to hell with it still.
bastardo23	Date: May 28, 2004 @ 11:16 AM oh, me i hate money too. it's only cool if you make music with no intent to succeed!! right! down with the musicians who profit, and get ahead!! musicians and all other artists should suffer, because that way their art will be real. art isn't real unless you die before the masses hear it, or at least lose a limb, or almost starve to death in the process. then the world can say what ever they want about you cuz your not there to defend yourself. now that's creativity my friends. creativity that has a life and meaning of it's own.
ShakerGreen	Date: May 28, 2004 @ 11:22 AM this guy lemmy nailed the truth for us quote"LemmyIsGod Date: May 28, 2004 @ 1:31 AM Oh man. I got referred to your band by who is apparently a fan, and...Well, let's just say I'm less than impressed. The guitars are highly uninspired. Where are the bends, the harmonics? Also, I have to concur with your jounal entry and say it's not very original. Everything reminds me of something else. I mean, one song reminded me of James Pond 2 on Sega. What? Also, your singer sounds like he's trying to imitate comedy band Limozeen's singer from www.homestarrunner.com . Sorry guys." end of Quote
thought-fox	Date: June 1, 2004 @ 5:48 PM Wow! What a great chain of thought, well done bastardo for starting this. I would like to think that figfarmer is just acting as 'devil's advocate' and enjoying being controversial, but sometimes matey .... well, I don't think you're really listening! One of the most important points was raised by interglacti in saying that music is communication. Hoorah! All art is communication and self expression, and to communicate feeling, one needs to perform with feeling. No-one can do that with dollar signs in their eyes. Self expression brings me back to the beginning of this forum about useful, constructive criticism: when we dare to bare our souls through art we leave ourselves in a very vulnerable place and maybe that's why there are too many kind people on this site, who are not usefully criticising each other. The worst thing, I find is silence, if no-one says anything a person can virtually start to disappear! As for the jamming on tape, I think it is the most excellent part of this site. Raw creative energy being captured hot and wet! More, more! and bollocks to money, it only brings misery. We all know that. What we want as artists is RECOGNITION and APPROVAL. In this material society that means money and it's a bonus but not the original goal. Well said redrasta too. When I joined this site (two days ago) I wondered if I had the right (not being a musician) but we the listeners have very valid input. We may not be able to talk in lots of technical jargon, but we know if something works or not. I'm going to listen to all your music and leave comments, but it will take time. As for halaka, I've listened to one of his tracks already, and if that's made by a 'wrecked' person, we should all get wrecked!
Traf	Date: June 1, 2004 @ 7:03 PM Take no notice of her...
redrasta	Date: June 2, 2004 @ 2:23 AM Who me?? * slaps Traf just in case that WAS aimed at me* Mebbe people should specify what they wanna hear...whether its 'your music needs (enter technical info here)' or "I dis/like this coz it sounds....." Me? I tend not to comment on much of the music I listen to on hear, coz quite franky, I dont think a lot of the people can sing. This might be coz I'm used to the polished produced crap that we get forced down our ears every day on the radio, but still....I'd say 90 % of the stuff I hear on DM makes me cringe as a whole.....but saying that, I can easily pick out the fact that I like the guitars in one song, Would me saying that be helpful, or just rude?
redrasta	Date: June 2, 2004 @ 2:26 AM AARGH! It ate some of my post!!! "....I'd say 90 % of the stuff I hear on DM makes me cringe as a whole.....but saying that, I can easily pick out the fact that I like the guitars in one song, " SHOULD have continued.... " or the drumming in another. Sometimes, I guess its just that someone is writing songs and doesnt have anyone else to perform them....but then other times, its because they just think they sound good....."
Traf	Date: June 2, 2004 @ 5:57 AM It doesn't matter what standard we are, we all feel bad about our art some times... There's a lot of talented and experienced musicians on this site, but they all sounded crap at one stage... How would they have liked it if the "truth" was all they got (even though some of it may have been constructive)... Do you really believe they didn't want to hear they sounded good, even at this early stage in their playing? I think if anyone thinks they have the right to criticise someone's work (constructively) they ought to have the decency to say some nice things as well.. It's called encouragement... We all need it and sometimes that may mean not telling the truth... What's wrong with saying nice things to people about their work.. The way Dmusic works and having nice comments has really inspired me to write and play more... Would it have done this if everyone who hates guitar solos had come on and said how boring it all was and I should do it this way or that way? I've seen a few really horrible comments left about a tune that I thought was good.. Why would anyone want to do that? I think the most important thing about leaving a comment is to show someone that you've take the time to listen to some of their work. Isn't that why we record something and put it on site.. I think the comment above by Kyodylee is brilliant.
chrismacmanus	Date: June 2, 2004 @ 6:03 AM I can see where you're coming from, plain bad singing can really be offputting when listening to a song, and can in many cases, just put you off listening to it in its entirity. I think you're being unfair to say that 90% of the stuff here's bad. I would probably put some of my stuff in the Folk genre, and I'd say that that would be the genre jam-packed full of singers that would be considered bad by the general population: Look at artists such as Bob Dylan, Neil Young; English artists like Bert Jansch and John Renbourn; and Irish artists such as Shane McGowan. They're all high selling and well respected artists, but a lot of their singing is cringeworthy. (I realise it's full of great singers also) As for the idea of 'if you've nothing good to say, say nothing at all' , I'm probably a subscriber to that line of thought, don't think it's necessarily the right way of doing things - it's diplomatic if nothing else. But on the other hand, if you think an artist is really really bad (and you've given them the benefit of the doubt), should their illusions not be shaken just a little bit, instead of telling them their crap is pure gold, just so they'd repay the compliment??????
redrasta	Date: June 3, 2004 @ 8:04 AM See....where do we draw the line between giving our personal opinion, and giving an accurate criticism? How can we tell the difference?
kingo	Date: June 3, 2004 @ 11:59 AM It's ALWAYS just personal opinion, is the thing. So you might say, "The singing sounds off-key to me in this song," or, "I don't really like your voice," as opposed to, "This singer isn't good." I think it's a good thing when someone listens to something and gives their honest opinion. If you don't like the vocals, say so. Some of the best comments I've gotten on here were from SpiralMux when he told me the vocals were grating on him... I was much more likely then to believe the positive comments he was leaving since I knew he was at least making an attempt at honesty. I think it's good when everyone is just blowing smoke up everyone else's ass.
kingo	Date: June 3, 2004 @ 12:04 PM (Correction: I meant to say "I think it's good when everyone ISN'T just blowing smoke up everyone else's ass.)
bastardo23	Date: June 3, 2004 @ 12:06 PM halaka!!
Emoceon	Date: June 3, 2004 @ 4:41 PM yes i do
Vickxxx	Date: June 9, 2004 @ 6:51 PM Well said Traf.......the best thing about this site is the encouragement I get from everyone here. On this site, my music is there to listen to, to enjoy. I'm not here to make a milion bucks or get a record deal..this is not the place for that(at least for me it isn't). Enjoyable comments are always appreciated.. Constructive criticism is always a plus, I welcome it... If you just plain don't like the shit...move on and thanx for stoppin by anyway. Can't please everybody... figfarmer said:"Any record company exec will tell you that that true beautiful concept of music which is sharing it with the world and a buck and a half will buy you a coffee. A bit of belly button lint and a buck and a half will buy you a coffee too." you are totally right on with this statement....that is just the reality of the way the music industry works...that is the attitude I've had to deal with ...it's all dollars and cents...you've obviously had your nose to the grindstone long enough to embrace that fact. I just don't want to be part of that cookie cutting machine........there are other venues in the music industry for me pursue... But this is more of a place to create, write, and share ideas. Woodhead's statements nailed it. I've heard a lot more music on this site that far outshines any of the slick crap on the airwaves. Maybe the differnce is the money.....
Woof	Date: June 10, 2004 @ 3:32 AM Well, here's my 2 cents on the subject: If something somebody's doing is interfering with my rights or personal freedoms, I'll criticize it, and usually harshly. But independent musicians don't do that. We're just here to play, and have a good time, and share our work. That being the case, if I don't find something I like in somebody's music here, I'll say nothing. And if I DO find something I like, I think I owe it to that artist, to recognize and applaud it. I doubt that anybody leaving positive comments on an artists' page, is "ass kissing". I think we're just letting each other know what we appreciate about each other. And there's enough hard knocks in the world outside of the web, where we get our share. I don't think we need to bring it in here, too.
fighterpilot	Date: June 10, 2004 @ 4:48 PM i think we shud be honest....if we think it sucks, we shud say so. just like if we think its good we say so. lol do ppl think they'll hurt my feelings if they say my music sucks? haha i know its bad, n i'll feel shit anyway but its the truth.
chrismacmanus	Date: June 11, 2004 @ 9:53 AM yup, I concur, so long the bad comments don't get malicious etc, I dont care if people don't like my songs
Jesuszilla	Date: June 11, 2004 @ 11:13 AM I concur? That's a bit posh ain't it. You don't speak English proper like what I do.
chrismacmanus	Date: June 11, 2004 @ 11:17 AM the good guv Professor 'enry 'iggins 'as taught me well, The Rain In Spain... and all
BedroomSessions	Date: June 11, 2004 @ 1:18 PM your names funny because it has anus in it. hehehehe
furiousBall	Date: June 11, 2004 @ 2:20 PM I definitely want honest feedback. I've learned the most from making mistakes. I can listen to my recordings over the past year and hear each lesson I learned with each one. It can be a bit painful if tact isn't used when pointing it out, but I haven't run into much of that at DM. When I give comments, I do try and be very honest - pointing out small issues. Those small issues being addressed for that artist in later recordings will only benefit that artist. I'll listen to anything, I don't put many comments in regarding whether I like the genre or not, just whether or not it was done well by that artist. If there are major, major problems with a recording (and they are expecting me to review their tunes) I will usually note the artist and ask them questions about the recording rather than blast them in the comments on their artist page. At the same time, I do agree with what Woof is saying too. This is our community, a group of indy artists and fans. A comment of any sort is a nice nod to a fellow artist. Someone taking the time to listen to your work AND telling you how they felt about it - that rules.
imemine	Date: July 16, 2004 @ 5:34 PM Comments Please! Also posted in my site journal Well folks, after being here for a little over a week I must say that I have found some tremendous talent on this site. There is a very eclectic mix of styles representative of our global musical community here. That being said, and PLEASE don’t take this any other way than in the spirit that it is intended, I think that we can all benefit from a little more critical reviews of our works. That’s not to say that we need to be mean if something falls outside our familiar genre, (like one particular member who will remain nameless that commented unfairly on another members work.) Hey, frankly I have no dog in that fight other than to say we all need to remain open minded. Rather, I think that we need to collectively listen, think and comment on the things that can help each other progress and get better at out art. Grant it, this may be a hard pill to swallow but I firmly believe that nothing can be gained by “sucking up”. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out the good in anything in life and that applies here as well. However, I know for a FACT that I cannot sing! With Ime Mine as an example and that in consideration, there are MANY other examples of production quality, instrumentation, quality of the lyrics and/or hook, commercial or anti-establishment value, and etc. that make up all of our compositions. I guess all that I am really saying here is this, slow down, think, listen, think, write what you think, take time to write what you think good and bad, be constructive, be honest and above all be civil. Your comments are much appreciated! RP of Ime Mine
BedroomSessions	Date: July 16, 2004 @ 5:40 PM words of wisdom from you both. i agree totally
imemine	Date: July 20, 2004 @ 11:20 AM I should be a politician because I am about to waffle on this topic. I still stand behind my opinion regarding my own music and do truly seek honest, constructive comments in my review box. However after reading the post from woof on June 10, 2004 in this forum, I have opened my mind to an alternative position. Please read his post, it absolutely made sense to me. If you truly are looking for blind reviews in complete anonymity, post your stuff at http://www.broadjam.com/. No one knows each other there. I now see that this (dmusic) is a community of independent musicians working together helping and supporting each other’s work. Thanks woof for the insight!
imemine	Date: July 20, 2004 @ 11:42 AM One other quick thought. "For every difficult and complex problem, there is a solution that is easy, simple and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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