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Farenheit 9/11

onewhodreams	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 1:28 PM I just saw this movie last night and I recommend, if you are an American or living in America, that you go see this movie. It is essential that you do if you care anything about the country you live in.
jmweirick	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 3:59 PM dude, it's just a movie.
Maffmatix	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 4:01 PM I agree. This movie blew my mind, and was pretty depressing. What I hated though, were all the idiotic audience members in the theatre, who wouldn't shut the f**k up. I understand laughing when Bush says something stupid. I understand groaning when you see a child shot. But people seemed to be so caught up in the fact that Moore was showing how stupid some people could be, that they didn't realized he wasn't trying to make EVERYONE look stupid in his movie. But yet, so many people in the crowd would laugh at the most retarded things... like at one moment this woman says how she likes to put up the American flag every day at her house, and the idiots behind me started laughing saying "Oh my God!!" Disgusted me. Just shut up and watch the movie and try to understand what Michael Moore is SHOWING you and stop thinking it's all this big joke movie that's meant to make fun of EVERYONE he interviews. God. I don't know which was more depressing.. seeing how corrupt our government is... or listening to all the completely ignorant and idiotic comments that crowd had to say. Yeesh.
onewhodreams	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 4:40 PM jmweirick - I'm NOT a dude
onewhodreams	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 4:54 PM Oh, and it's not just a movie, it's a Documentary which means "A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a "factual" and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration." In other words it's Reality.
MickeyBreezy	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 8:33 PM yea, i havent seen it yet but i want 2. i've been hearin a bunch about it. ...isnt it the same guy who made bowling 4 columbine
onewhodreams	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 9:45 PM Yeah, same guy - Michael Moore.
sinai	Date: June 27, 2004 @ 11:44 PM my backwards ass hillbilly town isnt carrying it yet. but i'll be in line when it does.
MCCUBED	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 12:25 AM IT WAS GOOD AND INFORMATIVE. I LIKE THE PART WHEN THE TALIBAN WERE IN THE U.S. AND A LADY AT A PRESS MEETING WAS PUTTING THE TALIBAN GUY ON BLAST ABOUT HOW WOMEN WERE TREATED IN AFGHANISTAN AND WITH A DISGUSTED LOOK HE ANSWERED WITHOUT LOOKING AT HER "YOUR HUSBAND MUST HAVE TROUBLE WITH YOU." BUT REALLY EVERYONE SHOULD SEE IT.
Maffmatix	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 1:37 AM haha that was funny
synthsect	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 5:32 AM great fuckin movie, i agree that everyone should go see it. scary shit going on in america.
jmweirick	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 3:08 PM onewhodreams - I know your not a dude, but I call everyone dude. "Oh, and it's not just a movie, it's a Documentary which means "A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a "factual" and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration." In other words it's Reality." But it's still just a movie. I'm sure when I see it (I'll save my money and borrow a copy of the video) I'll better understand how the scene MCCUBED described isn't just another sexist comment by the taliban, which is all it appears to be.
jmweirick	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 3:16 PM "God. I don't know which was more depressing.. seeing how corrupt our government is... or listening to all the completely ignorant and idiotic comments that crowd had to say." You do realize that the two are directly related, and that no matter how much we try to reform one or the other, both have to be reformed for anything to improve. Oh, one other thing, this may be a documentary, but it is still highly byassed and only shows scenes that support Michael Moore's view of the situation. If you base any oppinions on this movie alone, you are an idiot beyond compare.
sinai	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 4:42 PM or in other words, a republican
Grateguy	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 6:11 PM Michael Moore is a douche, liberals are gay, sorry. They're very naive, etc..
Grateguy	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 6:21 PM jmweirick seems to get the picture, but the rest of you just buy into that crap.
onewhodreams	Date: June 28, 2004 @ 7:08 PM "Oh, one other thing, this may be a documentary, but it is still highly byassed and only shows scenes that support Michael Moore's view of the situation. If you base any oppinions on this movie alone, you are an idiot beyond compare." I base my opinions on the facts and yes, you can see which scenes are "facts" and which are "opinions". Most of the things he brings up have been in the media already and they are factual.
Maffmatix	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 12:20 AM Opinion number one: THOUGH "Grateguy" USED HARSH WORDS, HE IS CORRECT. Liberals are retarded. Opinion number two: "Grateguy" IS INCORRECT, MICHAEL MOORE IS NO DOUCHE. A lot of this movie contained facts, not just oppinion. Opinion number three: SINAI, You are an asshole for turning this into a name-calling politics thread. Oh and you proved Democrats start the fights. Ha. footnote I am no republican. I just don't like democrats.
LordAndrew	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 1:01 AM "Michael Moore is a douche, liberals are gay, sorry. They're very naive, etc.." Paraphrase: People that don't have the same opinions that i do are stupid.
Grateguy	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 1:32 AM Not in the mood to argue, everyone has an opinion, you don't know a thing about me, so don't try to shove words in my mouth or paraphrase...
MCCUBED	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 1:41 AM IF YOU FOLLOW SOMEBODY JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT YOU'RE STUPID! I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS BUT I CAN READ A FAKE AND BOTH BUSH AND KERRY ARE STUPID BUT I'D RATHER HAVE KERRY AS PRESIDENT BECAUSE WON'T SEND OTHER PEOPLE I KNOW TO IRAQ AND OPRESS OTHER POOR PEOPLE SO SOME ELITE CAN PROFIT OFF OF THEIR OIL. IF YOU DIDN'T SEE THIS WAS ABOUT OIL IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD JUST STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE GROUND AND VOTE FOR YOUR PARTY'S CANDIDATE TO LEAD YOU BLINDLY AND STAY OUT OF INTELLIGENT CONVERSATIONS. IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE BUT IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE CHECK OUT MOOREEXPOSED.COM. PEACE OUT^^
Grateguy	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 1:56 AM Oh, please.
Maffmatix	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 2:18 AM "Grateguy" is such a good addition to this conversation.
synthsect	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 9:15 AM liberal = naive homosexual? i dont get it
kingo	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 12:31 PM Oh, that's because Grateguy = idiot
100thmonk	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 2:02 PM thanks for the link mccubed.. funny and yet quite unsurprising and unrevelatory info about farenheit 911 content. very revelatory of moore though, although i am honestly not surprised by the proposed facts. maffmatix, i disagree, what grateguy is doing has nothing to do with conversation.
Maffmatix	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 2:48 PM Yea I know. Sarcasm.
sinai	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 4:03 PM you're welcome matix, anytime
jmweirick	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 10:08 PM "or in other words, a republican" I am not a republican. I am not a democrat. I am not a liberal. I am not a conservative. I think all political parties are full of . I am just one very opinionated person. "IF YOU DIDN'T SEE THIS WAS ABOUT OIL IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD JUST STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE GROUND AND VOTE FOR YOUR PARTY'S CANDIDATE TO LEAD YOU BLINDLY AND STAY OUT OF INTELLIGENT CONVERSATIONS." The war wasn't just about oil. The war wasn't just about freedom. The war wasn't just about [fill in the blank]. Wars are just about showing that some people will remain complacent about anything until brute force is used. (The above statement was neither for or against the war. Seeing that getting a completely unbiased look at the real reasoning behind it is impossible, I choose to remain neutral. Only history will tell if we were right or wrong.)
Woof	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 10:37 PM I saw the film. And I like to discuss it. But not here on the DMusic forum. I learned from the last political post here (about a month or two ago) that whatever the topic, it just degenerates into an ugly insult match, and I'm not into flame wars. Sorry.
onewhodreams	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 10:48 PM There's some good reading here Woof... It's a great message board called The Straight Dope. Try for threads in the BBQ Pit and Great Debates for Farenheit 9/11. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/
jmweirick	Date: June 29, 2004 @ 11:25 PM Of course it degrades to flame wars. It stimulates creativity!
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 12:39 AM Ok, listen up and learn something... Liberals aren't homosexuals.. Liberals are naive, why? Well, you did buy everything in that movie.. For example the golf scene, that was taken completely out of context. The president was talking about terrorist attacks.. He was talking about Palestine attacking Israel. Maybe if you'd see the whole tape instead of just the clip on the movie??? Let's see, now did you call it a documentary??? Wow... A documentary is something that provides facts, and yes, this movie did provide facts. However, it also gave a point of view... The word "documentary" is something presenting the facts OBJECTIVELY... That means without providing a point of view... You guys should look in a dictionary someday. So what would Michael Moore's film be? Well, it's trying to make the other side (republicans, the president) look bad... OH YEAH! That movie is a propoganda film, it is definately NOT a documentary... Pay attention to what's going on the world..
Maffmatix	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 1:11 AM "Grateguy" is correct, it is not a documentary, it's an EDITORIAL. He is also correct in that Moore was trying to make the other side out to be as bad as possible, even if by cheating. And yes he did cheat. He edited that film like an episode of Real World. Now, it's obvious there were some horrifying facts in the film, but you know what? It means the government is never going to REALLY be there for you. Some presidents are better than others, but Moore makes it seem like only BUSH will ruin us. Nope. Sorry. Incorrect. We could elect someone else, and he may do better, but the fact remains we will be screwed ultimately. In short: Fuck the government.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 1:16 AM Yes, I know that I'm correct, but you should know that if we had no government we would live in a hell. There would be chaos, and it would be hectic. Maybe the government can be corrupt, but we still need it. You're a moron if you think that people are smart enough to live in peace without government.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 1:18 AM How's that for an addition to the conversation? And by the way it's a propaganda film.
onewhodreams	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 1:52 AM
woodhead	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 2:10 AM hmmm, what was this thread about again?
pog	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 2:14 AM The dictionary.... I've read that... it turns out the zebra did it as for politics as for the movie... I'll prolly watch it one day
Maffmatix	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 3:40 AM Well DUH, with no government we would be in shambles. What I was saying was obviously over the top... but I was saying our government is not very good. Yes there are worse governments, but if we keep it up, we might end up just like them. To answer your question... as an addition to the conversation, what you said wasn't too impressive. Was I supposed to be impressed?
Svensta	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 8:01 AM "In other words it's Reality" "liberal = naive homosexual?" "I saw the film. And I like to discuss it. But not here on the DMusic forum. I learned from the last political post here (about a month or two ago) that whatever the topic, it just degenerates into an ugly insult match, and I'm not into flame wars. Sorry." "hmmm, what was this thread about again?"
kingo	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 12:18 PM I'd buy this "documentaries are objective" thing if there were such a thing as objectivity. No matter what a film-maker is trying to do, there's SOMETHING that's not being shown. And as for this: "Liberals are naive, why? Well, you did buy everything in that movie.." So if you didn't buy everything in the movie you aren't a liberal, and if you DID buy everything in the movie you are? Or are you saying if you're naive you're liberal and if you aren't naive you aren't liberal? Dismissing a segment of the population by lumping them all under some meaningless umbrella term is pretty close-minded. Which, of course, is what conservatives are. So there.
jmweirick	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 12:29 PM Nobody ever makes a logical statement in a political thread. I think that's because politics by nature have no logic.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 3:40 PM Yeah, but no one contradicted what I said, because you know I'm right.
sinai	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 3:43 PM agreed. i wasn't trying to make a point, i was just trying to start shit.
Maffmatix	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 3:44 PM Who are you winking at, fire starter. "Politics by nature have no logic." They do have logic... POLITICIANS have no logic.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 5:18 PM What the hell? O.o
EmpireDay3	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 8:02 PM I actually liked bowling for columbine, but this movie is complete tripe. If you believe that this thing is in any way a documentary, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. My review: I give it one finger, up.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 9:51 PM Hahaha, and to that person with the freaking carrot for a picture, I was saying that that is one example of liberalism, not that you can group liberals by one thing alone, you can't put anyone into a group with just one fact, that was an example. And by the way, you're a moron for saying there is no such thing as being objective, I'm sorry to be rude like that, but that was a stupid thing to say. Yes, you can be objective, not that Michael Moore can be... The bottom line is that this movie is not a documentary, it is a propaganda, and that this movie may contain some facts, but mostly contains contorted lies and half-truths. In other words they're lying to make Bush look worse than he really is. But people are so stupid that they'll just say "Oh, the movie said this, it must be true." That's why you have to look at the whole tape, or actually see the footage, not just what's on the movie. Liberals hear what they want to hear, you need to look at the big picture, watch Fox news sometime.
Grateguy	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 9:51 PM
MCCUBED	Date: June 30, 2004 @ 11:33 PM I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS ANTI-GOVERNMENT (IN HERE AT LEAST). JUST ANTI-ARISTOCRACY. WE NEED SOME GOOD LEADERS WE CAN TRUST BUT WHEN TWO PARTIES MONOPOLIZE THE RUNNING- WE'RE GOING TO GET SCREWED OR GET LUCKY. TOO BAD ALL WE HAVE TO GO BY IS WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS ABOUT OUR CANDIDATES AND A COUPLE OF INDEPENDENT SOURCES THAT TEND TO BE EVEN MORE BIASED. THIS MOVIE JUST ANOTHER SOURCE. WE ARE PAWNS WITH THE PURPOSE OF POWERING THE ECONOMY AND THAT'S IT.
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:31 AM Hey Grate, can you tell me what to think now?
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:32 AM tell me what to think grate
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:32 AM tell me what to think grate
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:33 AM how come you havn't told me what to think? you're always right you know whats going on you have the ultimate knowledge
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:33 AM how come you havn't told me what to think? you're always right you know whats going on you have the ultimate knowledge
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:33 AM Tell me? am i stupid? am i naive? tell me... you would know cuz you know everything
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:34 AM I'm liberal grateguy... fix me fix me grate... fix me
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:35 AM Bush sucks (fix me)
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:35 AM Bush sucks (fix me)
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:35 AM Bush sucks (fix me)
LordAndrew	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:35 AM Bush sucks (fix me)
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 1:59 AM
Maffmatix	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:05 AM CAUTION: Anyone who is listening to Grateguy and wants to learn from the way he argues, turn off your monitor and walk out of the room. Take a deep breath. You almost became an asshole.
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:13 AM I'm just saying you people buy into all that crap just because it's on a movie. Open your damn eyes.
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:14 AM
Maffmatix	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:29 AM Ohhh no he took offense. Poor kid. Oh by the way if we're making fun of looks, take off that paintball mask loser. HAHA
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:32 AM Haha, you're just jealous.
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:33 AM
Maffmatix	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:37 AM Ohhh no he took offense. Poor kid. Oh by the way if we're making fun of looks, take off that paintball mask loser. HAHA
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:41 AM ;
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:44 AM
Maffmatix	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 4:29 AM "...so I'm moving on..." That's good news.
synthsect	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 11:08 AM vote gary coleman 2004
Izekial	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 12:45 PM I love controversial stuff like this. It gets everyone all passionate. Watch me get motivated/ethical. Michael Moore to me is just another person making money off of this, like the person selling the flag on the street corner. It’s also propaganda, like what people have written in the twisted history books for the children in Afghanistan (some weird footage I saw on TV. Not sure if it’s entirely true, but anyway…). However, one would have to be a total dumb fuck if they’re still backing Mr. Bush. This site explains it better: http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/ Moore opens eyes, yeah, but remember to think for yourself. He isn’t sharing the Holy Grail. He picked a pretty easy target too, in retrospect… ah, in all honesty, I don’t like democratic, liberal, or republican mechanics. It all gives me a headache. Dislocated Boner was right about the government. It sucks elephant wiener. Let’s try anarchy for a change. Or if everyone is so afraid, how about we assign new leaders/puppets? The government was created by the people anyway, and this country was founded by people that believed they had the right to say, “No! Fuck you, fuck what you’re trying to make me do, and get the fuck out.” I’ve got just two problems with the government right now. One, we’re at war. Forever until the end of time, man will be at war. Good fucking God just stop. Second, I’ve been lied to about it. At least tell me the truth, say it straight out, like, “We’re going to go kill these people because we want their stuff and they suck. You’ll benefit from it. Are you happy? No? Move to Canada.” No more beating around the Bush. Our country is being ran be Skeletor. And I'm sorry I've been a reclusive shithead on my page, haven't answered any responses from my friends. I've just been away, or I'm in the middle of finding my voice as a songwriter again, some cathartic bullshit like that. I'm back, sort of...
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 2:56 PM
Maffmatix	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 5:16 PM I'm gonna ignore Grateguy now because his comments are growing more and more mindless. NOW, the bottom line is Michael Moore has a way of taking an issue that is hugely complicated and then showing a simple personal angle to make an audience feel an emotion from it. That’s a dangerous thing to do in politics, especially when most of America bases their opinions on blurbs and Michael Moore-esque tree-hugging simplicities. With editing you also can make people react to something in a way they think they should be reacting. For example, during the long opening title sequence where Moore used footage of most of the Bush staff being prepped for the camera I actually heard some lady whisper behind me with a tsk tsk “I can’t believe these people” like her reaction and the subconscious reaction that you’re supposed to think/feel is that these people are all puppets or just phony politicians. I wanted to turn around and say “you fucking moron, don’t you know that ANYONE that goes on TV gets made up, ESPECIALLY politicians!” That every single president before Bush had someone run out before the cameras rolled and made sure there wasn’t a random hair standing on end before he delivered a speech. That’s common sense and I think most people realize that, but those images are meant to imprint a certain feeling about these people; to make them look foolish or self absorbed. It’s a real cheap shot, as is most of the footage of Bush speaking. It’s a lot of padding for the meat. However, I’ll admit that Bush is a baaaaaaad public speaker and its easy to make his look foolish by editing. Dumb things we all say are magnified if you’re the president. Never choke on a pretzel, puke at a state dinner, or forget how to spell potato. You’ll look like a moron. But Bush does take the proverbial cake on looking like a total moron sometimes by what he says. Let’s show footage of our troops that makes them look the worst possible. Find footage of the dumbest white trash saying stupid things about listening to rock music as they fight the war and killed people, implying the US army is a collection of immoral morons AND THEN ask the audience to take pity on them because they are poor and their only way of surviving (because of republican tax cuts) is to join the army, because there is no one in the army from the middle or upper class. There are NO Pat Tillman’s out there. So Moore both feels sorry for the poor soldiers, but at the same time uses embarrassing footage of them to take a cheep shot at the military in general, no wonder he’s so fat because he certainly has his cake and eats it too. I didn’t feel sorry for the stupid old man who went to the weight room and made comments about hating the president. I have a feeling by the way he spoke (he seemed a bit off) it’s possible he said harsher, more threatening things, but he’s a bumbling lovable small town guy so he couldn’t possibly be an actual threat! Isn’t it funny how we thought he may be a threat!! Because all the men that tried to asassinate presidents in the past never fit his description so lets just dismiss it. If he said things that would make a whole group of people inform the FBI he must have said something. Even prior to 9/11 if you made public threats against the president you’d probably get a knock at your door by the F.B.I so they could determine your threat level, big deal. Whatever my rant is over. THERE IS CORRUPTNESS EVERYWHERE!!! IT HAS BEEN AND IT ALWAYS WILL BE PART OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION.
meisdead	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 5:57 PM grateguy owns you biotch!
Izekial	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 7:37 PM Grateguy can't spell the word "great." That or he's basically "grating," as in annoying or aggravating. We could call him Peskyguy! The amazing opinion bot who’s only real objective is to rile you up. And for the record, I've never seen DB speak so intelligently/eloquently before, or expressed such strong political views. I think he’s even spell checking, for Christ’s sake. You guys have corrupted his mind, scraped the resin from his cerebra and drained his liver of all those vital alcohol deposits. I don’t know if I should be impressed or frightened…
sinai	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 10:32 PM i like cheese
Grateguy	Date: July 1, 2004 @ 10:43 PM You think I can't spell correctly? Well haven't you ever heard of the word "grateful?" You know that "grate" isn't incorrect? It's just sad how seriously some people take message boards.. Hahaha
Izekial	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 12:35 AM "Grate" isn't an abbreviation for grateful, dumb ass. It's a word. I made that comment because you sound like a pest, and you have the word "grate" in your name. Get it? If you were sounding grateful, the joke wouldn't have made any sense. And who said anything about me taking this board seriously? Do I sound like a college professor? I'm interested in literature and writing, just so you know now. I’m an unofficial failure of a language geek. I like cheese too, but not too much. It makes me constipated.
Grateguy	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 1:38 AM ;
LordAndrew	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 1:45 AM http://adorocinema.cidadeinternet.com.br/personalidades/atores/macaulay-culkin/macaulay-culkin01.jpg (Grateguy came to the sudden realization that internet message boards gave him both the reason and the means to take out his lifes frustrations on total strangers!)
Grateguy	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 2:08 AM Only 1 message this time, Lord Andrew?
100thmonk	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 3:50 AM And by the way, you're a moron for saying there is no such thing as being objective, I'm sorry to be rude like that, but that was a stupid thing to say. Yes, you can be objective,
Svensta	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 8:46 AM and you can also murder page formatting with a million emoticons. Just looking at the page, mind you. Objectively, you have to admit, it's fux0red.
ronnie71	Date: July 2, 2004 @ 2:15 PM skeletor kicked ass!!!
Maffmatix	Date: July 2,