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legalize it?

OmegaDaemon	Date: September 29, 2002 @ 12:43 AM Legalize it or not?
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 29, 2002 @ 12:50 AM copying protected files for free or smoking pot?
forrix	Date: September 29, 2002 @ 1:31 AM let's see; one hurts artists, the other helps...
pressf8	Date: September 29, 2002 @ 1:51 AM I'm pro legalization of both
Cryxan	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 1:08 AM Agreed with pressf8.
GrooveTonic	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 1:35 AM i say down with bottled water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ThePerv	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 1:36 AM Wait.. legalize what?" id="21451"> Absolutely! It should be legalized immediately! For centuries the Western man has suffered from oppressive and prudish laws. In some "undeveloped" countries it is legal, but with that often comes the price of other oppressive laws and ways of life. If it were legalized, the nation would burst with love! Maybe, then, others would see the good it would bring and move toward legalizing it in other countries. Wait.. legalize what?
ABG	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 1:53 PM roflmao! ^_^ omega, how about telling us WHAT to legalize?
silverwolf121	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 3:21 PM I'll let ya know when i know what it is!
OmegaDaemon	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 4:22 PM legalize IT.....y'know it, the only it there really is.... basically anything that is illegal and shouldn't be...heheheh and havoc ensude and the world fell into chaos due to one post...
ABG	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 4:26 PM legalize chaos? hmmm... there's an interesting concept!
Cryxan	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 4:42 PM Was chaos illegal to begin with? Is that even possible?
OmegaDaemon	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 5:14 PM copying protected files for free or smoking pot? weell, here in canada (yay us) MJ is pretty much already legal....almost, just if those pesky :USA: would stop trying to stop it from being legalized, they're just worried that all the americans will go to canada (the government that is)
ABG	Date: September 30, 2002 @ 6:08 PM the american governtment would come to canada for pot? ... yeah that sounds about right
azhazhellfire	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 8:53 PM i'm not taking any sides but i read this thing that was bout the scientific studies that they have on mj. although there results are limited (cus obviously its hard to experiment on an illegal drug) the results that they do have shows that mj actually causes cancer later on in life. and there was a lot of other diseases to that i cant spell mentioned aswell and i cant find the paper that i read it in. so if these studies are true then, although mj may appear no more harmful than a drink in the short term. it may have harmfull affects on you in later life. (i'm getting that fealing that i get when im stating the obvious without realising it, so if everybody already knows this then break it to me lightly please) and if your talking about file sharing then of course it should be legalized. its sharing, not stealing. meep
ABG	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 9:46 PM damn right file sharing should be legalized. But I have a feeling that if it was, then the government would find a way to tax it...
Cryxan	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 9:53 PM Az, of course it's bad for you. But the government shouldn't be the entity to decide what you can do to yourself. That should be up to you alone.
Jennae	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 10:36 PM agreed Cry!
azhazhellfire	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 11:50 PM no, the government has to protect they're people from they're own stupidity. if every drug was legalised then loads of people would suffer and the hospital taxes would hav go up etc etc. and why the hell did ABG put a wink at the end of his last comment, if governments found a way to tax it then we'd all be screwed. every person who ever file shared would be taken to the closest town square and shot in front of everybody. and the whole crowd would shout good ridance!!!!!! fuck the RIAA. meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 1, 2002 @ 11:55 PM :uk: meep" id="21696">and that "fuck the RIAA" wasnt part of what im saying the people were saying, just to ease any confusion. meep
Cryxan	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 12:04 AM I don't think the government is qualified to judge what's stupid and what isn't when it comes to decisions about my own body. They have no business telling me what I should or shouldn't ingest. And I think it's the people's responsibility to protect themselves from their own stupidity. And if they die whilst doing something stupid, at least they won't pass on their stupid genes. It's good for the species. Besides, it's not like drugs being illegal stops people from suffering because of them.
ABG	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 1:15 AM I wink because if the gov. did tax file sharing, we'd just find another free way to share files instead The very concept of file sharing makes it untaxable.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 1:52 AM oh sorry there ABG, got confused. and Cry, thats fair enuf but what you got to say about the higher taxes cus of higher hospital costs thing. (please keep arguing, i miss having debates over things that actually matter) meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 3:34 AM oh yeah, another thing about the health issue, it causes irreversable phsycological damage. if you have a drink then you are yourself again when you get sober (unless you bcome an alcoholic, and even then your yourself when you get of it). but as soon as you get on the mj, your attitude and whole personality changes forever. meep
icisnizz	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 11:14 AM " id="21748">On the topic of legalizing mj...What hospital costs? Do you know how many things cause cancer. Sh!t I bet they could find a way to explain that file sharing does. Az where are you hearing that mj changes your personality forever. I think your reffering to acid not mj. It all comes down to abuse. Dont abuse your mind, know your limits, draw a line(hey that rymes, that can be like a slogan or somethin eh?). It is not true that after drinking your fine. Drinking can cause the same, and at some times worse long term effects. In one sitting you can get brain damage and never be the same again...or even worse, die. Even after one beer your body already forms an act of withdrawl. Never herd of anyone dieing of a mj overdose. Why? because you can't. Ever hear of someone blacking out on alchohol...happends all the time. Soooooo dangerous. Shoot, now I forgot what my point was. Ohh ya, short term memory is gone. I if anyone is so against legalization of mj they shouldn't be pro for the legalization of alchohol. That's nutz. "Dont abuse your mind, know your limits, draw a line", hehe.
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 2, 2002 @ 12:55 PM oh yeah, had that happen a couple of times.... As for mj causing cancer, it has been proven that cancer already exists in most of us and it just lies dormant in our bodies until it is activated... rather than drinking that will definately ruin a fine liver. As for legalizing file sharing, there is no way our freedoms of 'sharing' can be taken away, unless they think they can turn the world into a communist regime that controls all mediums of intellectual property. (smells like mizer spirit)" id="21762">"Ever hear of someone blacking out on alchohol" oh yeah, had that happen a couple of times.... As for mj causing cancer, it has been proven that cancer already exists in most of us and it just lies dormant in our bodies until it is activated... rather than drinking that will definately ruin a fine liver. As for legalizing file sharing, there is no way our freedoms of 'sharing' can be taken away, unless they think they can turn the world into a communist regime that controls all mediums of intellectual property. (smells like mizer spirit)
azhazhellfire	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 6:32 PM i don't know where the hell you got that from but whoever wrote it has no idea how cancer works. cancer is when a cell becomes damamged and can't do its job properly. and then reproduces over and over again to make thousands of crappy cells. if to many of these are in the blood then we end up with lots of vital bodily tasks not getting done. thats how you die from cancer. now if you re-read what you wrote there Daemon, it don't make any sense. and nizz: What hospital costs? Do you know how many things cause cancer? another load of bull. if mj was legalized it would inevitably rise taxes. to add another legal cause of cancer to the already vast list would be the stupidest thing a gov. could do. and as for the changing personality thing. it is absoloutley true that it changes you and alcohol changes you as well BUT YOU CAN RECOVER FROM THE ALCOHOL SIDE. AN OVERDOSE OF MJ CHANGES YOU AND YOU ARE NOT YOURSELF EVER AGAIN!!! "Even after one beer your body already forms an act of withdrawl." BUT YOU DO RECOVER!!! after quite a long time. (maybe a year) :uk: meep" id="21919">"it has been proven that cancer already exists in most of us and it just lies dormant in our bodies until it is activated..." i don't know where the hell you got that from but whoever wrote it has no idea how cancer works. cancer is when a cell becomes damamged and can't do its job properly. and then reproduces over and over again to make thousands of crappy cells. if to many of these are in the blood then we end up with lots of vital bodily tasks not getting done. thats how you die from cancer. now if you re-read what you wrote there Daemon, it don't make any sense. and nizz: What hospital costs? Do you know how many things cause cancer? another load of bull. if mj was legalized it would inevitably rise taxes. to add another legal cause of cancer to the already vast list would be the stupidest thing a gov. could do. and as for the changing personality thing. it is absoloutley true that it changes you and alcohol changes you as well BUT YOU CAN RECOVER FROM THE ALCOHOL SIDE. AN OVERDOSE OF MJ CHANGES YOU AND YOU ARE NOT YOURSELF EVER AGAIN!!! "Even after one beer your body already forms an act of withdrawl." BUT YOU DO RECOVER!!! after quite a long time. (maybe a year) meep
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 6:42 PM you contradicted YOURSELF azha..... and YOUR KIDNEYS AND LIVER MAN!!!!! THE ALCaHOL IS BAD!!!but then again going out for a walk is hazardous to your health too in some places....think about that one. Are you really gonna go around (or in this case not go around) and hide from everything because it may be hazardous???? " id="21923">"cancer is when a cell becomes damamged and can't do its job properly. and then reproduces over and over again to make thousands of crappy cells." you contradicted YOURSELF azha..... and YOUR KIDNEYS AND LIVER MAN!!!!! THE ALCaHOL IS BAD!!!but then again going out for a walk is hazardous to your health too in some places....think about that one. Are you really gonna go around (or in this case not go around) and hide from everything because it may be hazardous????
Cryxan	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 6:50 PM The question was whether it should be legalized. And when I think about the legalization of drugs, the first thing that comes to mind is personal choice, not hospital costs. And to me, personal choice is much more important. Government is taxing us to death already anyway, and you can be sure if they legalized marijuana, there'd be heavy taxes on it by the gov't in question--which would, theoretically, go to the extra hospital costs you keep mentioning. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the US would probably get another category added to its name. Taxes are a whole separate discussion. The tax system of today is a way for the gov't to exploit its citizens and feed itself. But I'm not letting that get in the way of my opinion about an individual's control over their own body. No one has any business telling me what I can ingest, though they are welcome to make recommendations.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 7:29 PM but will personal choice be more important to you when your paying extra taxes? and what about the people who don't want to take mj or drink until they're drunk? they're having to pay taxes for you to do that. isn't that a little selfish. and daemon: can you re-write your post and put it in words that explain themselves. how am i contradicting myself?" id="21926">cry: "And when I think about the legalization of drugs, the first thing that comes to mind is personal choice, not hospital costs. And to me, personal choice is much more important" but will personal choice be more important to you when your paying extra taxes? and what about the people who don't want to take mj or drink until they're drunk? they're having to pay taxes for you to do that. isn't that a little selfish. and daemon: can you re-write your post and put it in words that explain themselves. how am i contradicting myself?
icisnizz	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 7:36 PM azhaz ...if your comparing an overdose of mj to an overdose of alcohol and saying that you can recover fully from either side your wrong. Both can be dangerous. One doesn't out way the other. If you drink yourself silly you it can cause harmful brain damage. Brain damage is permanent...If you smoke yourself silly on wacky tobacco same same. No matter how many years pass your brain is damaged...
icisnizz	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 7:37 PM Nice points about cancer though.
Cryxan	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 7:38 PM Definitely. Personal freedom above everything else. If you have no freedoms, what's the point of anything else? And I'm being selfish? I don't smoke anything and get drunk only on occasion. What made you assume otherwise? And even if I did, what would that have to do with my argument? I already addressed the tax issue. They are way too high already. That's why I vote Libertarian." id="21929">"but will personal choice be more important to you when your paying extra taxes?" Definitely. Personal freedom above everything else. If you have no freedoms, what's the point of anything else? And I'm being selfish? I don't smoke anything and get drunk only on occasion. What made you assume otherwise? And even if I did, what would that have to do with my argument? I already addressed the tax issue. They are way too high already. That's why I vote Libertarian.
starseven	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 9:48 PM well,drugs are personl choice only when they don;t affect others, and if you are going out in the world and intereacting with people then you can afffect them, but this goes for achol too.. which is legal, that's bulshit i think we should legalize everything... let natural selection do it;s work.. kill off the week, let them sit around smoking pot all day why the rest of us rape them for everythign thing they have(they won;t know any better)... legalize.,,definlty.... but then again if i were every president(and i strongly suggest none of you ever elect me) .. i would make everythign illegal, and punishable by death....get caught with a joint,or a ton.. bent down on your knees right there and shot in the back of the head... and let's just fucking hope your kids are right there when it happens so they can see what a fuck up you are...how much you wanna bet they won;t do drugs?....basicly either make it totaly illegal, or totaly legal.. don;t have all this grey area... that;s the REAL bullshit....people are being sent to prison for way to long, while people who are really doing harm, have less jail tiime,.... all of this costs us monye... bullets are much cheaper. than prison.. either kill the bastards or let me get as high as they want to so people like me can take advantage of their lack of brain cells
starseven	Date: October 3, 2002 @ 9:50 PM and as far as file sharing.. why aren;t they trying to shut down radio stations... i'm sure people make tapes and cd's off the radio... i'm sure what i say may seem a bit extreme to some people but that's the point... fucking wake and think about these things
azhazhellfire	Date: October 4, 2002 @ 2:18 AM k, i think we should stop this crap about file sharing cus i think its pretty much unanimous (spelling?) that it should be legalized. and cry: i think you should re-read what i wrote about the selfish thing. i don't think you completely understood what i was trying to say. and you're still not making any sense to me. you think that taxes are to high and yet you're saying that i'm right about the taxes getting higher because of mj being legalized and then you're saying that mj should be legalized. (so your saying that taxes should be higher but taxes are to high anyway) im probably the one confused, so if i am, please explain. and omega: i should have said this earlier. you have a point, going for a walk does indeed do you a very minor amount of damage. but that is inevitable, you have to go for a walk or you become unhealthy. but you can avoid taking mj, which does you a considerable amount more damage. and starseven: i cant wait to see you telling the nation what you're going to give them. and i'v just realised that i'v gone way back on my earlier goal of not taking any sides. oh well. meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 4, 2002 @ 2:20 AM and noone took any notice of grooves point right at the top of this page, it was much more valid than anything we've been saying. meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 4:05 AM just reviving this thread, i got a little confidence from cry (thanks cry) and now im gonna argue until im beaten. meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 4:34 AM oh well stuff, you might as well face it az, noone wants to debate with you. another day in my sad life. meep
Cryxan	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 8:21 PM I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, but in the US, the health care system is in desparate need of a major overhaul. The entire system is broken. There's lots there to worry about there. And I already said how I felt about the taxes. Governments are big animals that feed on their citizens, and that's wrong too. This subject is a huge can of worms I really don't feel like getting into, but I think it is indeed separate from the discussion on whether individuals should have the right to control what happens to their own bodies. Az, does making drugs illegal stop people from using them? Doesn't look like it's very successful so far. :)" id="22341">I consider the legalization and the taxes to be two separate issues, and I have a separate opinion on each of them. One may affect the other, but each has its own merits. The legalization of drugs gets back directly to personal freedoms, and like I said before, that takes precedence. Whether it's my personal freedom, or that of someone who wants to enjoy a mind-altering substance doesn't matter. Once the governments start taking choices away from you, they don't stop. I don't use "hard" drugs, but I'm defending this view on principle. That's why I don't think I'm being selfish. I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, but in the US, the health care system is in desparate need of a major overhaul. The entire system is broken. There's lots there to worry about there. And I already said how I felt about the taxes. Governments are big animals that feed on their citizens, and that's wrong too. This subject is a huge can of worms I really don't feel like getting into, but I think it is indeed separate from the discussion on whether individuals should have the right to control what happens to their own bodies. Az, does making drugs illegal stop people from using them? Doesn't look like it's very successful so far.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 8:24 PM I was about to write a very detailed reply but the bong just blew my brains out
azhazhellfire	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 8:48 PM cry: im gonna kill your points off one at a time, first, you keep coming back to this thing about personal freedoms. but if you think about it the governments cannot morally give the people a freedom to kill themselves. it would be rong. with your arguement, one could claim that murdering should be legal, because stopping people from murdering is to limit they're personal freedom. i think you either need to drop this one, or re-thin it. and i apologise for any spelling mistakes, i have written this two minutes b4 going out. meep
Cryxan	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 9:23 PM Killing someone else violates their right to be alive. Personal freedom means things that affect only you, so killing others is not part of that. Taking drugs, or partaking in activities that are bad for you, is only harming yourself, and that is your business alone. As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, the government shouldn't interfere. And yes, I firmly believe that if you choose to end your own life, that is your right. A very basic right, at that. ...meep.
NeoFlash	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 9:26 PM cryxan is right. Let them kill themselves. They'll set examples for everyone. Why the hell must the govt babysit everyone just because they are stupid? Really, if they are that stupid as to do these things, they aren't worth protecting. There are shop-lifters, murderers, etc. We need to concentrate on them and not the other people who are too stupid to know what kills you.
milladrive	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 9:48 PM Suicide infringes on no one else's personal space.
bastardsofglory	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 9:53 PM neither does smoking pot
Cryxan	Date: October 5, 2002 @ 10:18 PM Exactly.
pog	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 12:25 AM Legalize it.... Pot... no worries As for file trading, I thing that ppl should be educated, instead of punished for what they do. Once again, were see a case of who can we blame, and how hard can we molester them, when we should be encouraging ppl to take steps toward protecting the artist. I can't justify to myself when ppl say "I just wanna share, cos it's sharing, not trading". I think it should be "Im gonna post this song at 128k so lots of ppl get a chance to hear this song"... that way, more ppl are likely to go out and buy the album. Hell, if the riaa had any brains, they'd make their own 128k mp3 napster server that works better than any p2p. The money would be better spent.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 1:48 AM you lot still havn't addressed the point i made earlier, who's gonna look after you when you get sick from mj? the health service? ok then, they'll look after you but you'll have to pay the price, higher taxes. you dont't mind paying higher taxes? well your non pot smoking neighbour does!!!!!! the above is everything iv said already, exept iv simplified it because either, noone understands me, or you've all wimped out because you no that these are the points that are gonna kill your argument!!! ok, one more thing. im sure some of you have heard of the little old lady who recently suede the ciggarette companies for damaging her health. now, although when she started smokin, people didnt think it was bad for your health. BUT FOR THE PAST THIRTY YEARS SHE HAS KNOWN THAT CIGIES ARE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH AND SHE DID NOTHING TO TRY AND STOP!!!! so, in thirty years time, are you lot gonna be tryin to sue the mj companies?!?!?!??!? meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 1:50 AM and people, lets drop the p2p thing now, we all agree that it should be lagalized. the end. however the argument against mj is still going strong with one 14 year old in it meep
icisnizz	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 3:20 AM Even if the government doesn't legalize it people will still smoke it. period. Legislation would be a positive thing because the amount of thc will be controlled and you wouldn't have kids getting product off of the streets. When you get mj off of the streets it only makes the gangs and criminal groups stronger and also provides an advertisement to the youth. If you bought mj at a vendor im sure that they wouldn't be saying, 'hey man wanna try some of this stuff. I'll hook you up for free.' It would be controlled. The only reason why mj users get lead into trying other drugs is because there buying it off dealers. Dealers who need all the business they can get. Fuck taxes. Look at it in a whole. Mj is not some drug that makes you hallucinate or even overdose. I have friends that smoke is legally for their arth-right-tess(two to be correct). They get it at a pharmacy. I think the personal choice comment is right. I've worked a full time job for years and you don't see me complaining about taxes. Maybe in Canada it's better but at the end of the year I get almost all of what I payed back. I don't see anything wrong with someone smoking a joint after work. The same way I think about someone having a beer. People shouldn't over do it...that's all. And that also should be your choice.
icisnizz	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 3:22 AM and az I am glad to see that your so against smoking it...it's better if people didn't...but they will.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 5:49 AM ok, iv tried being nice, rational, and resonable. but now iv had it. i want you to listen vveerryy ccaarreeffuullyy cchhiillddrreenn. WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR YOU TO GET BETTER WHEN YOU'RE SICK?!?!?!?!?!?!? MEEP!!!!!
pog	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 6:30 AM People are gonna get sick... alcaholism, drugs, colds, war virus's, whetever ! Im not saying that I've got anything against ppl who are well, I just get really get sick of ppl who assume lifes a bed of roses, and ppl can't have addictive personalities.... We try these thingz cos they're fun, fair enough. But when someone gets hooked on summick, we get outcasted cos we're not like them ??? Blah... narrowmindedness
Cryxan	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 1:27 PM Icisnizz, well said. Az, this is the time to stop and accept that we simply have a different opinion on this. You're entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine. Thankfully, we still have the personal freedom to express these conflicting opinions without fear of retribution. I was born in a communist country--I know what I'm talking about.
PetulaClark	Date: October 6, 2002 @ 6:54 PM I think if you are terminally ill or you have dreadfully painful disorders that can't be cured, the least we can do for you is let you smoke out. A few years ago I heard about a heroin-treatment that works while you sleep. They put you under and drip some stuff into you. When you wake up - you are off the junk! (no more Miles Davis locking himself up in his room, no more 12-step programs - arguably much cheaper) All because some wealthy people were beginning dabble with it again. Legitimizing something also means people are freer to discuss it and develop more reasonable ways to enjoy it. Also, people who are allowed to grow their own do not aggressively market the stuff to children or put in known toxins and make their shit more addictive. I'm a little ambivalent on the 2nd hand smoke, though. Just as you have a right to inhale what you want, other people have a right to choose not to inhale. My dad smoked when I was growing up and I am used to being around smokers, but I actually cannot deal with being in Las Vegas. Also I haven't heard anything about whether MJ smoke is more or less harmful than cigarette smoke. (Given equal long-term exposure)
azhazhellfire	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 12:53 AM after what cry said, i have decided that now is a good time to tell you that i couldnt care less what people do to themselves. and i completly agree that we should let the week minded people who give into this suffer the consequences fot themselves. i still dont think that it should be legalized but most of what i'v written here in this thread is simply for the sake of debating, which i love. meep
Cryxan	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 1:44 AM
azhazhellfire	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 1:50 AM exactly! meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 1:51 AM damn! i thought of a really good thread to start that i thought would get everyone involved in debating and i cant remember what it was! meep
icisnizz	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 3:25 AM hey I was just debating also...much love az, appreciate your die hard approach
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 6:43 AM The use of some many illegal substances in this day and age could be partly down to a lack of knowledge. The net gives all the info people need but can you trust what someone else tells you? Sure, I've taken drugs at some point (as have a lot of people) and I've seen some side-effects. The worst about MJ is the joint. The tobacco usually never has a filter on it and cigarettes have over 600 added chemicals in them. Remember that when you rip one apart to roll a spliff. Short-term memory loss does occur, as do psychological effects. It also accelerates the brain processes, sometimes making them uncontrollable (giggles, munchies, paranoia). That's the drawback. Every good reaction usually has a bad side-effect. As drugs will always have that good/bad problem it's best not to take them. But each to their own, granted.
GrooveTonic	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 10:52 AM Legalize what? Hiphop?
RevHope	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 11:17 AM if u legalize it then the next thing you know they'll legalize crack too. Pot smokers think they are immune to side affects. but they are not. any doctor will tell you that. They cant make $$$ if pot becomes regulated sorry but I doubt the US gov has any plans to legalize pot. Then you'll have to lay off pestering smokers too. It's ok to smoke weed but not a cig?
RevHope	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 11:19 AM also: In the US you have to pay for your own Health Innsurence(sp?) and doctor visits. If you are not covered you still have to pay that bill when you leave the doctors office. it doesn't come outta the tax payer's pockets unless they are on welfare.
RevHope	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 11:22 AM That is a copout if I ever heard one that is like saying to a drunk that it's ok to drink cause it will prevent u from having a heart attack. " id="22528">"I think if you are terminally ill or you have dreadfully painful disorders that can't be cured, the least we can do for you is let you smoke out." That is a copout if I ever heard one that is like saying to a drunk that it's ok to drink cause it will prevent u from having a heart attack.
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 12:37 PM "cancer is when a cell becomes damamged and can't do its job properly. and then reproduces over and over again to make thousands of crappy cells." cancer is a bad cell, therefore cancer is already in you, it just has to be triggered.......... whatever..." id="22530">"and daemon: can you re-write your post and put it in words that explain themselves. how am i contradicting myself?" "cancer is when a cell becomes damamged and can't do its job properly. and then reproduces over and over again to make thousands of crappy cells." cancer is a bad cell, therefore cancer is already in you, it just has to be triggered.......... whatever...
milladrive	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 12:56 PM I also still have a difficult time with people using alcohol to their advantage in a debate about "drugs," without considering how well it works against them too. First of all, let's talk consistency. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Why is it that my senator can go home after a hard day's work (heh) and have 2 martinis before dinner, but he can't go home and smoke a lid without potentially incriminating himself? Why do I hafta see people on "Cops" caught with a bag of maryjane get treated like public enemy #1?? Why does "mother's little helper" come in the form of a narcotic prescribed to her by her pimp (the doctor) and her dealer (a pharmacist)? Imho, consistency should put a label on all of them (as we do with alcohol and nicotine), stock them on store shelves, and let adults make their own decisions. Next, of course, there's the seldom acknowledged point that habitual use of alcohol is much worse for your immediate judgement than is habitual use of pot. One is an aggressor drug, while the other's a passive. Both impair our judgement to a certain extent, but alcohol takes away inhibitions, while pot is known to inhibit quite a bit. There's no comparison, nor should they even be compared, imo. .....And to lump MJ in with horse, crack, and glue, without also including alcohol, caffeine, and Prozac is somewhat specious logic as I see it. Let's go back to the medical issues for a sec. How popular is Alcoholics Anonymous? Pretty well known, right? ...And do kids get beer and booze? Sure they do. We all know how easy it was/is to stand outside the 7-11 and ask a cool adult to grab it for us. However, kids still need to do _that_. For drugs that aren't sold legally, it's a whole lot _easier_ for them to score. Hmm. Wonder why that is. ..But then, we wouldn't think about eliminating the black market in the US, 'cause there's wayyyyy too much money in the fight against it. We can continue to let the parents teach the kids that it's the drugs and the dealers that are evil (I love my bartender), and that they should stay away from them at all costs (as they watch ads for Budweiser, Xanax, and Mountain Dew during the hockey game and the news. And if medical costs are the issue, then perhaps we should learn how to take that industry out of free enterprise. Listen, I think doctors are great people. If I get sick, I count on them to know how to help me get well again. But there is no reason why I should be payin' 100 beans just to walk in her/his door. Why is it $95 to get my teeth cleaned if I'm not fortunate enuff to possess insurance??? Ridiculous. But I'll ya why. Our courts like to entertain frivolous lawsuits, and juries like to award nonsensical sums for a doctor's mistake. Malpractice insurance is their beiggest overhead, by far. So, it's a vicious circle, from court to insurance to doctor to patient to insurance to court. This is the whole reason for pot's continued "unacceptability." There's much more money in the fight against it than in its legalization, and this nation is run essentially on unbridled free enterprise and campaign contributions. We walk a precariously fine line between retaining our civil liberties and bein' pulled up Wall Street. P.S. I agree w/Omega about cancer. I think we all have in us and it just needs to be "triggered."" id="22536">No matter what, I think it all boils down to personal rights and civil liberties. People should be able to do to themselves whatever the hell they wish. If you don't wanna be stoned, then don't get stoned. But I really dislike it when people try to dictate what others can do to themselves. ...Perhaps the title of this thread should be called, "De-criminalize it?" A lotta you like to talk about the health problems that you think would rise dramatically due to legalization of "drugs" (another vague term that says nothing about the actual narcotic). Fine, if ya want it to be a medical issue, then let's take it out of our friggin' jails. It doesn't belong there, as don't 75% of the occupants, who just happen to be there for non-violent crimes. I also still have a difficult time with people using alcohol to their advantage in a debate about "drugs," without considering how well it works against them too. First of all, let's talk consistency. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Why is it that my senator can go home after a hard day's work (heh) and have 2 martinis before dinner, but he can't go home and smoke a lid without potentially incriminating himself? Why do I hafta see people on "Cops" caught with a bag of maryjane get treated like public enemy #1?? Why does "mother's little helper" come in the form of a narcotic prescribed to her by her pimp (the doctor) and her dealer (a pharmacist)? Imho, consistency should put a label on all of them (as we do with alcohol and nicotine), stock them on store shelves, and let adults make their own decisions. Next, of course, there's the seldom acknowledged point that habitual use of alcohol is much worse for your immediate judgement than is habitual use of pot. One is an aggressor drug, while the other's a passive. Both impair our judgement to a certain extent, but alcohol takes away inhibitions, while pot is known to inhibit quite a bit. There's no comparison, nor should they even be compared, imo. .....And to lump MJ in with horse, crack, and glue, without also including alcohol, caffeine, and Prozac is somewhat specious logic as I see it. Let's go back to the medical issues for a sec. How popular is Alcoholics Anonymous? Pretty well known, right? ...And do kids get beer and booze? Sure they do. We all know how easy it was/is to stand outside the 7-11 and ask a cool adult to grab it for us. However, kids still need to do _that_. For drugs that aren't sold legally, it's a whole lot _easier_ for them to score. Hmm. Wonder why that is. ..But then, we wouldn't think about eliminating the black market in the US, 'cause there's wayyyyy too much money in the fight against it. We can continue to let the parents teach the kids that it's the drugs and the dealers that are evil (I love my bartender), and that they should stay away from them at all costs (as they watch ads for Budweiser, Xanax, and Mountain Dew during the hockey game and the news. And if medical costs are the issue, then perhaps we should learn how to take that industry out of free enterprise. Listen, I think doctors are great people. If I get sick, I count on them to know how to help me get well again. But there is no reason why I should be payin' 100 beans just to walk in her/his door. Why is it $95 to get my teeth cleaned if I'm not fortunate enuff to possess insurance??? Ridiculous. But I'll ya why. Our courts like to entertain frivolous lawsuits, and juries like to award nonsensical sums for a doctor's mistake. Malpractice insurance is their beiggest overhead, by far. So, it's a vicious circle, from court to insurance to doctor to patient to insurance to court. This is the whole reason for pot's continued "unacceptability." There's much more money in the fight against it than in its legalization, and this nation is run essentially on unbridled free enterprise and campaign contributions. We walk a precariously fine line between retaining our civil liberties and bein' pulled up Wall Street. P.S. I agree w/Omega about cancer. I think we all have in us and it just needs to be "triggered."
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 1:59 PM fingers sore milla?
NeoFlash	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 3:42 PM Well stated milla; why the hell should the U.S. worry about this? Why should the police have to babysit stupid people? If people are that stupid, why must we help them? If we let them kill themselves, soon people will realize it's bad for you.
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 4:08 PM realize its bad for them, or end up mass consuming harmful drugs(tobbacco anyone)
milladrive	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 5:51 PM Sore? Heh, nahh, I've written more on napkins.
Jennae	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 11:57 PM .....He said LID. lol
pog	Date: October 7, 2002 @ 11:59 PM lol
azhazhellfire	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 3:54 AM 1.dont deserve to die and 2.would be taken to a hospital anyway and treated anyway (which brings us back to my earlier point) :uk: meep" id="22587">no.1 you cannot aggree and dissaggree on the workings of cancer. cancer is generally a cell that is NORMAL IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THEN IT IS CHANGED (can be changed through sunburns, to much fat in the blood etc). it begins to reproduce way to rapidly, and causes the bulge. this could happen to any cell. cancer is not a ticking bomb. this is not arguable, it has been proven. no.2 im still not happy with anybodys thoughts on the whos gonna look after you when you're sick thing but im gonna let that drop. no.3 im pretty sure this has been mentioned already, but i just want to touch on it again. the general public want to feel safe and secure with the government yes? well if this is true then the let people kill themselves arguement is a peice of crap. a governent cannot claim to want to keep their public safe from crime etc if they say that people who take mj are just gonna be left to die. besides, it wouldnt happen anyway, the people who drown themselves in mj 1.dont deserve to die and 2.would be taken to a hospital anyway and treated anyway (which brings us back to my earlier point) meep
Fenderbenders	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 6:41 AM so Milla: It's ok then for them to sell it to minor's on the street and not get arrested for it? I am against drugs of any kind. People die from it and potheads are over running the country anyway. Becoming a 'stoner' gets you no where in life but hey, who am I to say right?
Fenderbenders	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 6:45 AM and saying I need to smoke pot to cure my illiness is as dumb as stepping in horse do. you're giving them a reason to get 'stoned' just like everything else in the world, people love to come up with poor reasons for what they like to do. so, is it ok to drink and drive and kill someone while drunk? no, it isn't but it's ok for a ten year old to get hooked on pot because the gov. or someone like you or those in power says it's ok to legalize it? I've lost too many friends over the years due to drinking, drugs and pot smoking. Look at all the dead artists we have now that die of overdoses? I am 100% against legalizing it but if people want to go in that direction so be it.
Fenderbenders	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 6:48 AM and it has nothing to do with 'civil liberties' that is pure BS. sorry but every time I hear that I want to puke later
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 8:16 AM Despite my stance on MJ I dont think legalising drugs will solve the problem. And throwing all the money in the world at it only brings it attention and the prospect of more 'addicts'. Alcohol is, in my opinion, the worst of the two. It's legal, sure, and look at the devastating effects it can have. As for the dangers? Well, get on a plane, step out the front door, plug in an appliance, stand up in the morning, eat a large dinner, whatever you want - they all have the potential to kill you too. What's really NOT dangerous today?
milladrive	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 3:19 PM And potheads are NOT running the country. Potheads run the art world. ALCOHOLICS run the country! A lot more people die from it every bloody day than marijuanics die in a year! So, you're pro-prohibiton then? There are plenty of dry counties around the nation in which you'd be very happy then. Also, no one ever said people _needed_ to smoke pot to _cure_ an illness. That's silly. But why are you against them feelin' better due to its use? In fact, how can you be against anyone bein' eligible to do to themselves as they see fit? Is it very important to you to impose morality on others? Why is it so difficult for people such as yourself to live and let live? Just because someone smokes pot shouldn't make them a criminal. Imho, if you really think that non-violent people should be rotting away in jail cells while you and I foot the bill, then, no offense intended, you're insane. Btw, did you manage to read my whole post? I often wonder why people latch onto one thing while disregarding the remainder. "so, is it ok to drink and drive and kill someone while drunk? no, it isn't but it's ok for a ten year old to get hooked on pot because the gov. or someone like you or those in power says it's ok to legalize it?" This is specious, I think. Drinking and driving drunk are 2 separate activities. Driving drunk is illegal because the automobile then becomes a much bigger potentially deadly weapon. Ten year old kids are not gonna just get addicted to pot simply because it's legalized. In fact, MORE kids smoke pot today than drink booze. Legalize it, card the buyer, and it becomes a much more regulated industry. Not to mention, legalization would decriminalize 60 to 70% of the population. If MJ were legalized, "crime" in the US would drop by FIFTY PERCENT, just by definition. We'd be decriminalizing the issue. "I've lost too many friends over the years due to drinking, drugs and pot smoking. Look at all the dead artists we have now that die of overdoses?" You've known _no one_ who's died from smoking grass. No one. Find me one friend, family member, famous artist, politician, athlete, or hobo who EVER died from an overdose of marijuana. That's almost a funny concept. Granted, excessive prolonged use can be a problem (i.e., Jerry Garcia), but I've never heard of anyone droppin' dead from a hooch high, or drivin' their vehicles into oncoming traffic while on one, or pickin' a fight in a barroom while high from pot. I think you're missin' the overall picture. Buzzie's indeed correct when he says that alcohol is the way more dangerous of the two. No comparison. And I think it has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with civil liberties. Everytime I hear someone say it doesn't I wanna puke. ;) It is ALL about bein' allowed to do to your own body as you see fit without some righteous moralist dictating to you how you should treat yourself. Anyone got a napkin? :P" id="22620">Good points, Buzz. Az, do we let alcoholics just die? Why is pot any different? Do you think it causes _more_ illness per user than booze? I respect your point of view, but we'll need to make alcohol illegal again to keep that view from becomin' too hypocritical. Fenders, who said it's "okay?" Certainly not me. The fact reamins that it's EASIER for kids to get it when it remains illegal. And potheads are NOT running the country. Potheads run the art world. ALCOHOLICS run the country! A lot more people die from it every bloody day than marijuanics die in a year! So, you're pro-prohibiton then? There are plenty of dry counties around the nation in which you'd be very happy then. Also, no one ever said people _needed_ to smoke pot to _cure_ an illness. That's silly. But why are you against them feelin' better due to its use? In fact, how can you be against anyone bein' eligible to do to themselves as they see fit? Is it very important to you to impose morality on others? Why is it so difficult for people such as yourself to live and let live? Just because someone smokes pot shouldn't make them a criminal. Imho, if you really think that non-violent people should be rotting away in jail cells while you and I foot the bill, then, no offense intended, you're insane. Btw, did you manage to read my whole post? I often wonder why people latch onto one thing while disregarding the remainder. "so, is it ok to drink and drive and kill someone while drunk? no, it isn't but it's ok for a ten year old to get hooked on pot because the gov. or someone like you or those in power says it's ok to legalize it?" This is specious, I think. Drinking and driving drunk are 2 separate activities. Driving drunk is illegal because the automobile then becomes a much bigger potentially deadly weapon. Ten year old kids are not gonna just get addicted to pot simply because it's legalized. In fact, MORE kids smoke pot today than drink booze. Legalize it, card the buyer, and it becomes a much more regulated industry. Not to mention, legalization would decriminalize 60 to 70% of the population. If MJ were legalized, "crime" in the US would drop by FIFTY PERCENT, just by definition. We'd be decriminalizing the issue. "I've lost too many friends over the years due to drinking, drugs and pot smoking. Look at all the dead artists we have now that die of overdoses?" You've known _no one_ who's died from smoking grass. No one. Find me one friend, family member, famous artist, politician, athlete, or hobo who EVER died from an overdose of marijuana. That's almost a funny concept. Granted, excessive prolonged use can be a problem (i.e., Jerry Garcia), but I've never heard of anyone droppin' dead from a hooch high, or drivin' their vehicles into oncoming traffic while on one, or pickin' a fight in a barroom while high from pot. I think you're missin' the overall picture. Buzzie's indeed correct when he says that alcohol is the way more dangerous of the two. No comparison. And I think it has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with civil liberties. Everytime I hear someone say it doesn't I wanna puke. It is ALL about bein' allowed to do to your own body as you see fit without some righteous moralist dictating to you how you should treat yourself. Anyone got a napkin?
starseven	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 3:42 PM hey, where are you getting these stats from?....60 - 70 %?....50%....are these just being pulled out of the air?...are these based on some small degree of fact?...or are you just trying to use numbers to back up your position on the issue?.......not trying to say you;re wrong or anything... just an honest question because i always see people on both side using all these numbers and 9 times out of ten they are full of shit
milladrive	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 4:18 PM Pulled'em rright outta my ass. Totally made'em up. There, feel better? I do it 9 times outta 10. My guess is that 60% of the people I've met in my life have smoked it at one time or another. This doesn't make them habitual users. And whether that's true is sort of unimportant. ...Point is, whatever percentage of the people do do it, then legalizing it would decriminalize those people. No matter what the percentage is.
gemini20	Date: October 8, 2002 @ 8:26 PM 2. Legalizing it would put alot of companies out of business from the multiple uses of hemp etc. (clothes, paper, etc etc) They also say its a gateway drug. My opinion on that is the fact that some or most dealers who sell herb, also sell other things. When they are out what do you think they will tell you? 1. Im out see me next week or 2. Im out but try this, the first ones on me. Most people will try something else, to loose that urge they have, but in the meantime start an addiction to something else. Look at Amsterdam they made it legal in bars, therefore loosing the gateway probability and still making money on it. My 2 cents." id="22680">Well from my research on the subject.. ah hem yeah research!....I have found that, this will never be legalized, simply for the facts that: 1. Legalizing it would pull the legs from under the "war on drugs" basically 80% of the war on drugs is for fighting herb. which gets the Govt alot of money from fines, and misdeamenor offenders. 2. Legalizing it would put alot of companies out of business from the multiple uses of hemp etc. (clothes, paper, etc etc) They also say its a gateway drug. My opinion on that is the fact that some or most dealers who sell herb, also sell other things. When they are out what do you think they will tell you? 1. Im out see me next week or 2. Im out but try this, the first ones on me. Most people will try something else, to loose that urge they have, but in the meantime start an addiction to something else. Look at Amsterdam they made it legal in bars, therefore loosing the gateway probability and still making money on it. My 2 cents.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 12:24 AM i really think that this everything is dangerous really is a load of bullshit, you've said yourself milla that drink driving is ridiculously dangerous, and thats not legalized and noones saying it should be so lay of the bullshit in this debate please. and bender, thenk you for bringin in the boot in this thread, i really do need sum1 on my side. next point, the alcohol situation is being dealt with, slowly and probably not surely, but it is being dealt with. the good people trying to sort out the problem do not need an extra problem created by pot. alcohol does not need to be illegal, the problem will be sorted. meep
azhazhellfire	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 12:28 AM and what does my 2 cents mean? the only place iv heard it is on that eminem song, without me.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 12:30 AM omg, i forgot, meep
starseven	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 1:42 AM i think gemini has made an excellent point.... and i must say i agree with that... and i also agree it;s wrong to tell people what they should or shoud not do , as long as it is not affecting anybody....but tunfortunitly drugs don;t just affect those who use them... our govt. also has really fucked up ways of dealing the problem t and it all boils down to money.. it has verY little to do with concern about people... which is very sad...i really don;t take a side on this issue,,... there are just as many good reason to leagise it, as there are to keep it illegal... the problem is that people only give you information that will support their side... so do your own research...think for yourself... and don;t try to sway other people to agree with you...like i said before if i had my way i would make it either one way or the other.. none of this bullshit... either total illigal,and punishable by death on the spot(including achol), or totaly legal and let natural selection do it;s part and kill them all off.... but none of these will happen anytime soon
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 5:57 PM THE GOVERNMENT IS CONSPIRING AGAINST ALL YOU FOOLS!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA THE RIAA CONTROLS WHAT YOU LISTEN TO ON THE RADIO!!!! IT'S THE WATER, THEY'RE USING LIQUIDS AGAINST US!!! meep. heheheheh you all take things way too seriously around here.......then again...someone has to in this world.
milladrive	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 6:02 PM Az, what the hell are you talkin' about? :?" id="22898">"you've said yourself milla that drink driving is ridiculously dangerous, and thats not legalized and noones saying it should be so lay of the bullshit in this debate please." Az, what the hell are you talkin' about?
gemini20	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 6:04 PM My 2 cents is an old saying for "my opinion"...I didnt know Eminem said it too.
gemini20	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 6:07 PM Now since I told you that...youve got to tell me What the hell Meep is?
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 6:08 PM oh god...
OmegaDaemon	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 6:09 PM ...find the meep thread, please please please...
azhazhellfire	Date: October 9, 2002 @ 11:33 PM http://www.dmusic.com/forum/general/1802-100#150 thats the meep thread. and milla, im sorry for my awful english, iv lived in england for to long, let me re-write that paragraph. chill said that everything is dangerous so whats rong with mj? well i was just sayin that that argument makes no sense because drinking and driving is dangerous but it still isnt legalized. what i said last time would make perfect sense to a brit and if you didnt understand the last paragraph i typed then you just need to be shot. and i have come to my final oppinion (or my 2 cents) on what punishment i think should be issued for smokin pot. anybody who used mj should be sued some amount of money depending of the amount of mj and supplying costs even higher. :uk: meep" id="22960">http://www.dmusic.com/forum/general/1802-100#150 thats the meep thread. and milla, im sorry for my awful english, iv lived in england for to long, let me re-write that paragraph. chill said that everything is dangerous so whats rong with mj? well i was just sayin that that argument makes no sense because drinking and driving is dangerous but it still isnt legalized. what i said last time would make perfect sense to a brit and if you didnt understand the last paragraph i typed then you just need to be shot. and i have come to my final oppinion (or my 2 cents) on what punishment i think should be issued for smokin pot. anybody who used mj should be sued some amount of money depending of the amount of mj and supplying costs even higher. meep
MerkDaGod	Date: October 10, 2002 @ 2:14 AM Legalize Pot!! Pls, It'll clear up all of our minds.. And ease all the stress and pain I feel.
ThePerv	Date: October 18, 2002 @ 11:19 PM I read my post... then "roflmao," then some more, then scrolling... you're talking about marijuana and file sharing? Geeks.
azhazhellfire	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 4:48 AM what an arsehole, we've been talkin about those things since the beggining of the thread. meep
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 9:32 AM Az, I'm not taking sides or anything, I just see that everything in life has a dangerous side. Driving whilst drunk or under the influence of drugs should always be illegal. After all, getting pissed or stoned is up to you but getting into a vehicle when you are impaired in any way (and that is a clear breach of the conditions in which we are allowed to drive, medical reasons debatable) means you severely increase the risk of causing harm to other people. I can hardly see the man next to me in a pub having liver disease because I drank a pint, or the person I sit next to in a 'cafe' dying of cancer because he breathed my smoke in (he'll probably die of cancer from his own smoke, never mind mine - I suppose this comment will get extracted and questioned because of the whole smoking debacle that circles the world). You can't kill a man with a rizla alone but give him a car and he could notch up more victims in 30 seconds in a busy street than any serial killer in history.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 9:34 AM apart from Pol Pot or Adolf oh, did I miss anyone? apart from Milla of course ROFL
milladrive	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 9:57 AM hehee Az, thank you for clarifying. Spare me from the firing squad, k? I agree with what chill said, for the most part (and look at that, I'm not even British). It's a difference between doin' harm to oneself and doin' harm (potential or otherwise) to others. To me, believing that mj should remain illegal while booze and barbiturates remain openly commonplace is highly illogical and incongruent. My 2¢.
icisnizz	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 10:05 AM How can you compare drunk driving to smoking a joint at home? That's like comparing a man pissing on the street rather than shitting in his toilet. pissing on the street: gross, smelly and unacceptable shitting in the toilet: gross, smelly and acceptable.
icisnizz	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 10:07 AM hey... my first 100th post.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 19, 2002 @ 12:05 PM shitting in the toilet: gross, smelly and definitely UNacceptable to the next user. If that doesn't count then neither does pissing in the street. After all, if you pee in public you obviously wouldn't care less who saw it then and after you'd left, pretty much like the mess left in the toilet for the next person. My point.

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