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Music & The Internet Rant

Vertices	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 1:23 PM MP3.com, the choice is obvious. Rolling Stone has a broader audience, a group of people looking, and interested, in finding new music. MP3.com, is basically sa night club, based on drawing people to your section of their site to download music. It offers services to artists, allowing artist to make their music available to their fans. Artists promote the site, draw their “crowd” to it, but ultimately it falls short of it’s potential. “So, in my opinion,” the same problem that faces the music industry and record sales face music and the Internet, the ability to connect with the consumer, the ability to offer something to the consumer that makes them interested in what’s being offered to them. Is there a solution? Yes. First there’s a problem facing the creators of the “new” Internet sites. (Again, in my opinion) Musicians are rarely the best fans, and the fans are rarely the best artists. Why is that important? Well, these are the people developing the sites. Musicians know what they want, and fans know what they want, but they don’t come together well. Even more important, a lot of artists that contribute to the development of these Internet models don’t understand the Internet well enough or don’t understand the music business in terms of promotion well enough to offer the best features. In the rare case that they do, they don’t understand the translation of all of this into features, so a lot of great ideas never happen. When it comes to consumers, we just don’t know how to ask for what we want. Especially when you consider that we like the best thing out there and we just don’t know it can be different. A factor in what I consider to be a real mess is size. A successful site can see traffic of 40 million registered users (according to mp3.com advertising figures). So if you’re going to build a real robust music site for the Internet, it better start from the realization that you may actually have 40 million users. It has to be designed with content in mind, delivery of content and what products and services will be made available and how they’ll reach the end user. If they’re really smart you’ll go one step further and base it off cell phone use (technology consumers). I read the other day that T-Mobile has 140 million users and that’s only one of many carriers, which leads me to believe that is a fair number in assessing the potential users of any site that can reach the real consumers. In another article I read regarding Yahoo, Yahoo had over 200 million registered users, further strengthening my belief in music on the Internet. There can be no accounting for planning for size. Here is where I add; “build the site and they will come,” which really isn’t true. The Internet is one of the lost frontiers and it’s equivalent in every way to someone walking down the same street and never noticing what businesses occupy the storefronts. Take it a step further and imagine that you were walking down the street but all the storefronts were in the alley, and you had to know where to look; now you’ve got the Internet. A great community would tackle the issue of exposure in its business model. The right music site will not only appeal to the market, but it will create it. For now, viva la music! It’s something to think about. If anyone knows anyone that would be into creating this... I'm all ears and ideas. Seth S. seth@thelamusicscene.com http://www.thelamusicscene.com " id="36091">Excuse this rant... I feel the urge. While the music industry runs around trying to solve what they believe to be the inherent problem(s) with the Internet, they’ve failed to embrace the opportunities that await them. What’s more is that the current model for the way music is promoted and distributed on the Internet are old, played out ideas, that consumers are no longer connecting to. Where there were once 2, maybe 4 sites that offered music downloads, there are now 100’s. The saturation is overwhelming and consumers can only patron a few of these sites with limitations on their time. Let’s face it, consumers will continue to patron sites that offer one thing, free music. That is why they’re on the Internet looking for music sites anyways, right? Well, maybe. In reality there are a few things that will keep consumers involved in a web site that offers music related products and services, the first is obviously free music, but the second is community. Community is a completely overlooked element of the music business on-line. That’s not to say that they haven’t tried, because there are lots of sites with forums, membership areas and more, but it’s the collection of data that drives these sites, the potential for advertising dollars or the future sales that drive these development models to be geared to the wrong people and really are a world apart from the true potential(s) of community. Music sites are notoriously geared towards musicians, which works to help get the site trafficked, like a bad club. Let’s face it; the club scene has changed in every city across American, where has money become the focus of filling the venue. Bands invite their friends; they stay for the group, and then the leave. Welcome to the Internet, where the same thing happens! Musicians/Artists are pushing the Internet because these sites are pushing the Internet in this direction. Let’s face it, if you’re a musician and had to decide what site you wanted to be on, Rolling Stone or MP3.com, the choice is obvious. Rolling Stone has a broader audience, a group of people looking, and interested, in finding new music. MP3.com, is basically sa night club, based on drawing people to your section of their site to download music. It offers services to artists, allowing artist to make their music available to their fans. Artists promote the site, draw their “crowd” to it, but ultimately it falls short of it’s potential. “So, in my opinion,” the same problem that faces the music industry and record sales face music and the Internet, the ability to connect with the consumer, the ability to offer something to the consumer that makes them interested in what’s being offered to them. Is there a solution? Yes. First there’s a problem facing the creators of the “new” Internet sites. (Again, in my opinion) Musicians are rarely the best fans, and the fans are rarely the best artists. Why is that important? Well, these are the people developing the sites. Musicians know what they want, and fans know what they want, but they don’t come together well. Even more important, a lot of artists that contribute to the development of these Internet models don’t understand the Internet well enough or don’t understand the music business in terms of promotion well enough to offer the best features. In the rare case that they do, they don’t understand the translation of all of this into features, so a lot of great ideas never happen. When it comes to consumers, we just don’t know how to ask for what we want. Especially when you consider that we like the best thing out there and we just don’t know it can be different. A factor in what I consider to be a real mess is size. A successful site can see traffic of 40 million registered users (according to mp3.com advertising figures). So if you’re going to build a real robust music site for the Internet, it better start from the realization that you may actually have 40 million users. It has to be designed with content in mind, delivery of content and what products and services will be made available and how they’ll reach the end user. If they’re really smart you’ll go one step further and base it off cell phone use (technology consumers). I read the other day that T-Mobile has 140 million users and that’s only one of many carriers, which leads me to believe that is a fair number in assessing the potential users of any site that can reach the real consumers. In another article I read regarding Yahoo, Yahoo had over 200 million registered users, further strengthening my belief in music on the Internet. There can be no accounting for planning for size. Here is where I add; “build the site and they will come,” which really isn’t true. The Internet is one of the lost frontiers and it’s equivalent in every way to someone walking down the same street and never noticing what businesses occupy the storefronts. Take it a step further and imagine that you were walking down the street but all the storefronts were in the alley, and you had to know where to look; now you’ve got the Internet. A great community would tackle the issue of exposure in its business model. The right music site will not only appeal to the market, but it will create it. For now, viva la music! It’s something to think about. If anyone knows anyone that would be into creating this... I'm all ears and ideas. Seth S. seth@thelamusicscene.com http://www.thelamusicscene.com
leflaw	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 1:53 PM Mp3.com veered off the road. Stay away from the RIAA. They are played out anyway. I have tons of great music IN MY HOUSE! Adn they don;t own it or me. But now reality sets in - WHATS THE BIZNESS MODEL? How do we pay da bills? Stay tuned. I'm gonna make Ovitz proud." id="36095">I think I am. My conception is: Music is made on Computers. Computers are connected to the internet. Music should be distributed in TCP/IP form over fiber, cable, DSL, etc. High Bandwidth. Modems are a waste of time for music. A community of music users, creators, listeners, fans, techies, legends, wannabe's . And pushing open source , Mac OSX Fredd BSD and trying to make the most of a mind controlled world. True artistc collaborations in a world of copyright fascism. Microsoft+Ashcroft = I don't know, but I don't like it. Lets pardy like its 2099! Pick up where Mp3.com veered off the road. Stay away from the RIAA. They are played out anyway. I have tons of great music IN MY HOUSE! Adn they don;t own it or me. But now reality sets in - WHATS THE BIZNESS MODEL? How do we pay da bills? Stay tuned. I'm gonna make Ovitz proud.
jkate	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 2:14 PM I've got a different slant - I'm aiming for the people who are sick of being shit upon, original artists, disillusioned fans. My site of 6 months has gathered more musicians over fans who love to review, but the core people I've got on the site are loyal and in love with the reality we are making, and I couldn't ask for more. (well money would be nice, but I try to keep Bizness Model out of it heh heh) Anyone can have a site, but promotion's not even that big a part of it. It's the message and the people who are there day to day that make or break the site. I've been on communities (and worked with Sony Music Canada for a large band's community) who had the crappiest color scheme (puke green my friends) but it was the best place I've ever been. I actually looked forward to the conversation, controversial or dumb, deep or fluffy. We all believed in the same thing, that was our base friendship. From there we made some good friends. So I'm aiming for the same target. People who think music is background noise don't have any interest in my site, nor does the site really have an interest in them. Music has always been a pioneering frontier for human beings - there's only so much we can conquer in space, given our limited budgets & brains, once we map DNA, we'll have a lot of bored scientists restrained by non-cloning orders who will have to find day jobs, there's hardly anymore uncharted land on the planet that's worth discovering and settling on. Music is one of our eternal artistic, ever-changing, oceanic pleasures and even THAT is being manipulated and controlled by a horrendously small number of rich people. People are much more immune to promotion and marketing these days since it's in our face 24/7. Any antithetical site is going to catch attention, and hopefully, kindred morals will keep them parked and contributing.
Vertices	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 2:21 PM jkate... interesting responce... leftlaw - I'll share the business model with anyone that can really help me create it. seth@thelamusicscene.com
leflaw	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 2:29 PM Don't get me wrong _ I am in it for the music - but it must be made sense of.
Vertices	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 2:40 PM cornerband.com or mp3.com or similiar services. Everyone just squeeking through, trying to make the next $$ but it's not well thought out and or comprehensive enough to meet the goals... for me, by goals I mean, create and give back all in the same model. I live for music. But I also believe strongly that it's a business. Which, again is something that people completely overlook. Not intentionally, because they try. But sales, which is business, is always more a service industry then a product, and the services is always value perception. making sense of music... that's an intriguing thought (sorry about my spelling this morning)... how do you mean? " id="36103">make sense of the music or the business? to answer both, nothing on-line answers the music, it addresses the wrong things without proper consideration to marketing, so instead you get places like cornerband.com or mp3.com or similiar services. Everyone just squeeking through, trying to make the next $$ but it's not well thought out and or comprehensive enough to meet the goals... for me, by goals I mean, create and give back all in the same model. I live for music. But I also believe strongly that it's a business. Which, again is something that people completely overlook. Not intentionally, because they try. But sales, which is business, is always more a service industry then a product, and the services is always value perception. making sense of music... that's an intriguing thought (sorry about my spelling this morning)... how do you mean?
Vertices	Date: March 9, 2003 @ 2:40 PM actually, let me say, people don't completely overlook it's a business... that's a broad comment, but more they don't look at it objectively.
ronnie71	Date: March 10, 2003 @ 11:49 PM most people overlook the commitment...
Vertices	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 12:48 AM the commitment, actually that could mean by the people who run it or by the people who us it. As someone who runs a site, I get the commitment, for 3 years now. As someone who uses one, after a day or so on most sites, there's no incentive to come back.
ronnie71	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 1:05 AM of being a musician it takes balls of steel and reptilian skin thats why most bands dont make it....
Vertices	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 1:35 AM see I think that the internet gears towards the wrong things for artists and the wrong things for music consumers... I agree it takes "balls" to be a band, but to enjoy the on-line experience, and make it a good thing, it takes something unique and special. Which is where my rant came from.
jkate	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 10:14 AM A good rant, too.
Elu	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 10:55 AM Nice....sweet....This is a cool thread. I like both perceptions...umm I mean positions. hmmmm kinda reminds me of sex. Dogh! No but seriously, I agree, most music sites are about artists and not the consumer and most of the consumer sites are about the majors not the indies. It definately needs help.
milladrive	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 11:41 AM Interesting you say that, Elu, since I was just gonna say basically the same thing. hehe. I like this thread, and I'd like to see someone develop a successful business model. I know several people who've been waiting many years for this, but so far, no one's found it. Wouldn't it be great if it were found in a thread at DM?
Vertices	Date: March 11, 2003 @ 11:44 AM I have it . lol, I just need the right people to get it off the ground. And I say it with every confidence, I absolutely have the model. It's insane... it's so grounded, it's so exciting, it offers so much to the artists and still allows the company to stay in business... ah I get so excited just thinking about it. Just need resources. isn't always that lol
ronnie71	Date: March 12, 2003 @ 11:46 PM i could learn alot from you vertices..
ronnie71	Date: March 12, 2003 @ 11:51 PM garageradio.com...i got go hope get the point think tornado might be coming through hailing like a bitch outside.. peace " id="36549">it seems collaborations are great on here so maybe the site itself could be one too..there many great sites for and dmusic being a piece of the whole picture maybe instead of developing a store on dmusic you could join forces with CD baby or instead of dmusic radio you could join forces with say garageradio.com...i got go hope get the point think tornado might be coming through hailing like a bitch outside.. peace
Jennae	Date: March 13, 2003 @ 2:55 PM this is a great thread!! Wow love this conversation!! and again I say... WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TALK TO Vertices!!! HE MUST BE CORNERED!! He has done his homework!! This guy get's off on research! He has some excellent and profitable ideas that dm NEEDS to hear. There are possibilities for just what you are looking to hear about!! There has been e mails sent and no responses yet made. It would be a shame to have this guy become our competitor instead. Two heads are better than one!
johnnygnote	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 4:42 AM WOOO Leflaw In repsonse to the comment about bad clubs. I played clubs for at least 30 years or more and if you think clubs have changed WRONG same drunks, same sex games, same reasons for drowning your sorrows, (my old lady left me, I lost my job, My dog died etc...) I would much rather be here spending my time with all the fine people I've met here. Granted I have over 20 music websites and because of it I have nurtured an audience from all over the world, (in 2 years) all from the comfort of my home. No smoke, no noise, no drunks yelling for FREEBIRD!! SKYNERD! Play something we KNOW!!! No women and men doing that same old dance, (Will she do me?? Does he have money??). What I'm trying to say is thigs are changing and we are the ground floor, We are creating the MUSIC INDIESTRY, no bed of roses. One thing we need to remember is together we make a force that the old industry fears, devided we're just fish in a barrel. One thing I know is there are a lot of very creative people here with excellent Ideas and knowledge that pours off this website. And AGE MAKES NO DIFF!! Young and Older you guys and gals are a very brilliant group YOU ALL ROCK!!
johnnygnote	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 4:45 AM Oh yea clubs have always been about money Alcohol companies don't care about musicians, just revenue!
Jennae	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 4:08 PM Johnny's a child.... still!
ronnie71	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 6:43 PM me and johnny are from same parts plays some skynerd...
Jennae	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 9:45 PM * jen goes to her favorite guitar store and plays stairway to heaven just to be annoying! =P pfft as if Icould do that... but it sounded good.
thumbtack	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 10:42 PM Heaven.mp3 :D I wish I culd play, or sing (I can't carry a tune in a bucket with a lid on it) " id="36754">Bill goes to his hard drive and plays Stairway to Heaven.mp3 I wish I culd play, or sing (I can't carry a tune in a bucket with a lid on it)
Jennae	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 10:59 PM http://boycott.dmusic.com/ DMCA who's this then :confused: True story... 3 years ago ... I couldn't play guitar, sing or mix music onto the internet. :nod: Somehow my desire just got me here :shrugs: There's always hope Bill!! :nod: I'm living proof! And besides, maybe you got a hole in the bottom of your bucket :shrugs: ;)" id="36757">oh really??? http://boycott.dmusic.com/ DMCA who's this then True story... 3 years ago ... I couldn't play guitar, sing or mix music onto the internet. Somehow my desire just got me here There's always hope Bill!! I'm living proof! And besides, maybe you got a hole in the bottom of your bucket
Expose	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 11:02 PM I don't even want to remember my effort to make music... I was sitting in front of a $200 keyboard just hitting random keys, all I could make was something that sounded like "2,3,1" . Returned it the next day .
Jennae	Date: March 14, 2003 @ 11:10 PM well if you ever, which you ahven't im sure, but if you tried driving a stick shift, it's not a lot of fun the first time around the block, or hitting a stop light at the top of the hill... nor was the guitar that use to feel foreign in my hands... but again if at first you don't suceed, try try again damn am I off topic can we chnge this forum to worthless rambling??
ronnie71	Date: March 15, 2003 @ 4:37 AM i sing tenor.....ten or twelve miles away
jkate	Date: March 15, 2003 @ 4:50 PM I am a bagel.
vonsmear	Date: March 23, 2003 @ 11:44 PM Here's the problem. We live in a silly world. And unfortunately, in this silly world, most people’s only source of music, is what they hear in between endless commercials, on whatever trendy radio station they see on the bumper sticker of the car in front of them, while driving a 45 min commute to their “nine to five” job. To most people, walking in to a very limited record store in the mall, and grabbing whatever is on the top 20 shelf, and listening to them for the following year, is suffice. Combine that with the fact that the Internet is still the number one most misunderstood, and misused invention ever. I mean when was the last time you heard something good about online music, from the non-online media. Never. This is why things won’t change, for a very long time. I don’t even think most people know how to download music. I just got done a 20min phone call with my mom, trying to explain how to use the cd buner on her laptop, instead of buying doubles of her cd’s for both her cars… Complete and utter silliness. P.S. - I love bagels. I have eaten one every day for the last seven years. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if I didn’t eat one, but I am too afraid to find out. Kind of silly actually.
Jennae	Date: March 24, 2003 @ 12:15 AM get this man a bagel!!! There is a way..... oh yes there is a way!
Veracohr	Date: March 29, 2003 @ 1:14 AM I like to think of myself as sensible and intelligent, but I know nothing of business, nor do I have any desire to learn. I make music. And I'm sure I'm not alone. This is the Catch-22. For this reason, I think that music FANS probably make the best business people. With exceptions, of course, but on average. But you have to get the fan/business people to COMMUNICATE with the artists. And have respect for the artists' wishes, and work toward their goals. And the artists have to listen to things they either don't understand about business, or are leary of. If an administrative person has legitimate ideas they think would be to the benefit of the artist, they have a responsibility to the artist to explain the idea and how it is good for the artist. Everyone tries to work alone, and that is to the detriment of all. People should try to work together (in life, as well as music :) ) Of course, greed plays a part. But greed also is a destructive force. Greed is a self-terminating program. It will only work for you for so long before you're completely alienated from everyone and have accomplished nothing of benefit for yourself or others. Sorry for the philosophy rant, but these are things people need to think about. You can't just sit back and not take an active part in the business of your music, and then complain when things don't go the way you wanted. And you can't take complete control of an artists' music and not expect them to get their panties in a bunch. :shock: Okay, well that was much longer than I intended it to be. I hope I didn't go off on too much of a tangent. I try to keep my posts on topic, but I do have a tendency to get off into rhetoric. :footmouth:" id="38923">The problem with asking people like us to come up with a good business model is that we're musicians! Musicians are notorious for having absolutely no business sense. Indeed, no sense of any kind. Hence all the musicians that get themselves into crappy contracts with major labels. More importantly, we don't _want_ to have, or acquire, business sense. One could say "Well you better GET some fookin' business sense, it's your music!", and while that may be true, it just doesn't jive with many a musician personality. I like to think of myself as sensible and intelligent, but I know nothing of business, nor do I have any desire to learn. I make music. And I'm sure I'm not alone. This is the Catch-22. For this reason, I think that music FANS probably make the best business people. With exceptions, of course, but on average. But you have to get the fan/business people to COMMUNICATE with the artists. And have respect for the artists' wishes, and work toward their goals. And the artists have to listen to things they either don't understand about business, or are leary of. If an administrative person has legitimate ideas they think would be to the benefit of the artist, they have a responsibility to the artist to explain the idea and how it is good for the artist. Everyone tries to work alone, and that is to the detriment of all. People should try to work together (in life, as well as music ) Of course, greed plays a part. But greed also is a destructive force. Greed is a self-terminating program. It will only work for you for so long before you're completely alienated from everyone and have accomplished nothing of benefit for yourself or others. Sorry for the philosophy rant, but these are things people need to think about. You can't just sit back and not take an active part in the business of your music, and then complain when things don't go the way you wanted. And you can't take complete control of an artists' music and not expect them to get their panties in a bunch. Okay, well that was much longer than I intended it to be. I hope I didn't go off on too much of a tangent. I try to keep my posts on topic, but I do have a tendency to get off into rhetoric.
DNP	Date: April 24, 2003 @ 9:40 PM StationMP3.com. That sight was wonderful: hassle free, stress free, no BS, upload all you want, any problems were handled immediately, the links all worked and the music all played. Unfortunately, the site closed down, due to financial problems. I've spent the last couple weeks looking for a new site. Here is a list of what I have found: MP3.com - a great site, if you can get past all the politics, spam mail and endless requirements to even listen to a song. Garageband.com - sure, upload all you want, as much as you want. But, not when you want. You must contend with "reviewing" 20 songs (most of which is horrid noise) to earn one "upload credit". The number of reviews doubles for 2 songs, triples for 3 songs, quadruples for 4 songs... Plus, once your song is uploaded, it gets subjected to being reviewed by people who couldn't tell you that a G-string isn't just underwear! IUMA.com - it sounds great if you can manage to navigate their site through all the dead links. quite often, their "sign-up" page doesn't even load. Vitaminic.com - They come acroos as the place to be. Allot of their sponsors think so too. Please, that seems to be a good site... if you and the visitors to your music page can tolerate an average of 5 pop-ups per click. Zeebox.com - It was a toss up between dmusic.com and them. Starting up a music page there is much easier than here. You can upload up to, I think, 24 songs - but limited to 5 megs per song. The biggest problem with them are their streaming capabilities and their tendency to "shorten" uploaded music. For instance, the song that "Cheyenne" has listed at: Cheyenne.dmusic.com was uploaded on Zeebox. A 4:12 song was reduced to 2:12 and took over 1/2 an hour to play completely through. Lycosmusic.com - good luck finding the actual page for Indie artists. If you can, you will have no problems uploading your music. However, you or anyone else will need to download a "Lycos Music Player" if you actually want to properly hear your music. Plus, you must contend with the most clickish site on the net. People will actually vote your song down in order to move their song higher on the list... the top 5 or 10 get mentioned on the front page. dmusic.com - sure, it has it's problems with uploading and a few strange rules. But, I finally decided to develop my page here, mainly due to the fact of their helpful nature and quick response time to my e-mails. I just wish they would do something about that bin and voting nonsence. As this is a free listing site. Perhaps their point system is a good thing. They should make it so you can upload the first song as soon as you join and can add another song for $20 OR 200 points each. no hassle, no fuss... you can pay for it, or you can work for it. " id="42998">Well, I need to add my input to this stream of postings. As a music producer, I would like to think that I am one of the best in my field. But, when it comes to the internet and and computer stuff, I'm an absolute moron. Still, I do know that having your music, or the music of those you represent, in an easily accessible location, such as a webpage is highly advisable. Herein lies the problem. "Cheyenne" was originally located at: StationMP3.com. That sight was wonderful: hassle free, stress free, no BS, upload all you want, any problems were handled immediately, the links all worked and the music all played. Unfortunately, the site closed down, due to financial problems. I've spent the last couple weeks looking for a new site. Here is a list of what I have found: MP3.com - a great site, if you can get past all the politics, spam mail and endless requirements to even listen to a song. Garageband.com - sure, upload all you want, as much as you want. But, not when you want. You must contend with "reviewing" 20 songs (most of which is horrid noise) to earn one "upload credit". The number of reviews doubles for 2 songs, triples for 3 songs, quadruples for 4 songs... Plus, once your song is uploaded, it gets subjected to being reviewed by people who couldn't tell you that a G-string isn't just underwear! IUMA.com - it sounds great if you can manage to navigate their site through all the dead links. quite often, their "sign-up" page doesn't even load. Vitaminic.com - They come acroos as the place to be. Allot of their sponsors think so too. Please, that seems to be a good site... if you and the visitors to your music page can tolerate an average of 5 pop-ups per click. Zeebox.com - It was a toss up between dmusic.com and them. Starting up a music page there is much easier than here. You can upload up to, I think, 24 songs - but limited to 5 megs per song. The biggest problem with them are their streaming capabilities and their tendency to "shorten" uploaded music. For instance, the song that "Cheyenne" has listed at: Cheyenne.dmusic.com was uploaded on Zeebox. A 4:12 song was reduced to 2:12 and took over 1/2 an hour to play completely through. Lycosmusic.com - good luck finding the actual page for Indie artists. If you can, you will have no problems uploading your music. However, you or anyone else will need to download a "Lycos Music Player" if you actually want to properly hear your music. Plus, you must contend with the most clickish site on the net. People will actually vote your song down in order to move their song higher on the list... the top 5 or 10 get mentioned on the front page. dmusic.com - sure, it has it's problems with uploading and a few strange rules. But, I finally decided to develop my page here, mainly due to the fact of their helpful nature and quick response time to my e-mails. I just wish they would do something about that bin and voting nonsence. As this is a free listing site. Perhaps their point system is a good thing. They should make it so you can upload the first song as soon as you join and can add another song for $20 OR 200 points each. no hassle, no fuss... you can pay for it, or you can work for it.
ronnie71	Date: May 26, 2003 @ 8:42 PM whatever happened to this guy from Vertices ... are we following the plan.. is it working ...hmmmmm
johnnygnote	Date: May 27, 2003 @ 12:48 AM johngarza.net and then go to my links page. BUT!!!! you will find very few with the sense of community that is here at DM people are very honest and direct here, some head games are played but most of the time they are not tolerated. The people are friendly and genuine here and like to have fun:party:. Aritstlaunch (and I know some of the DM people are there self included) as far as commuinty goes is not too bad but not free. That is my 2 cents on the matter." id="47330">I'm on all of those, and many more. For a list of more places to post music and create websites for bands, go to my website johngarza.net and then go to my links page. BUT!!!! you will find very few with the sense of community that is here at DM people are very honest and direct here, some head games are played but most of the time they are not tolerated. The people are friendly and genuine here and like to have fun. Aritstlaunch (and I know some of the DM people are there self included) as far as commuinty goes is not too bad but not free. That is my 2 cents on the matter.

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