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Zeitgeist - What does everyone think of this?

Alstroph	Date: July 20, 2007 @ 4:26 PM http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&q=zeitgeist&total=823&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 If you are a religious person or highly faithful to the US Government then you might want to consider whether or not you should view this.
Alstroph	Date: July 20, 2007 @ 4:37 PM Also there are some graphic images... not for the faint of heart at all.
NickSawyer	Date: July 20, 2007 @ 10:33 PM What's the movie about?
Mojosnake	Date: July 21, 2007 @ 10:35 AM i fell asleep half way through , (i was exhausted after work) but tonight i will be back for the rest awesome stuff alot of it i already knew but i need to see where this all ties in together thanks for posting this
Alstroph	Date: July 21, 2007 @ 1:03 PM The movie is about how Christianity was formed and about how the government uses religion (among many other things) to control us. I think it's an interesting watch... still deciding whether or not to digest it with a grain of salt...
SimonWaldram	Date: July 21, 2007 @ 4:32 PM This is one of the greatest documentary's I've ever seen. It's a brilliantly insightful and very well researched examination into how the world is really run. It's well worth a couple of hours of your time.
hate9wicket	Date: July 21, 2007 @ 4:45 PM Well the opening is quite powerful, just watched the first 5 minutes, but I'll go back to watch the rest... perhaps watch V is for Vendetta first and then this. How's that for a double feature?
Alstroph	Date: July 22, 2007 @ 1:40 AM I think this is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen, too. It's just so far out... I wonder if it's just some crazy conspirator or if this is really what's happening. The makers have definitely done their homework...
PrincessTast...	Date: July 22, 2007 @ 7:33 AM It's the must-see hit of the summer!
hate9wicket	Date: July 29, 2007 @ 7:05 PM http://journalstar.com/articles/2007/07/27/news/business/doc46aa5ddf65c6f612513891.txt Might seem totally off the wall to post that link, but, remember that scene in Fight Club where they talk about the equation of conducting a recall? Check your fan belts, check your hoses...by the way, I seem to have misplaced my passport? Did Mice steal it? Related note....anybody notice in all the Murdoch controlled media, all sorts of supposed infidelity of Bono w/ Penelope???? Sound Familier??? I think my favorite Rock Star might be waking from his post 9/11 stupor....I pray he is not the next John Lennon/Bill Hicks/Bob Marley/.....etc. "You are FREE, to do as WE tell you"
kingo	Date: July 29, 2007 @ 7:31 PM Many grains of salt, preferably the size of landfills, should be taken while watching this particular movie. Film. mockumentary? It's very well done except that it's not, and some of the non-well-done-ness is really just as bad as the kinds of things they're apparently trying to convince us that others are guilty of. It's propaganda, in other words, and there are enough easily disputed/demonstrably false claims in it to tarnish the valid points it's making. Which is really disappointing.
SimonWaldram	Date: July 30, 2007 @ 9:09 AM Which false claims are you refering to, Kingo?
kingo	Date: July 30, 2007 @ 9:35 AM In the first section, a lot of the description of Horus is innacurate and clearly that myth is being stretched in order to make it look more exactly like the christ myth. For example, saying horus was "born of a virgin" is stretching it. As far as the 9/11 conspiracy stuff, it's presented in a way that's completely unscientific and propagandistic. For example, trying to say that the way the towers collapsed would've required additional explosives ignores the fact that countless building engineers can explain perfectly well that the official story fits the facts. Read this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html Additionally, the alternate reality the movie is trying to spin about who was behind 9-11 and why doesn't even make any sense. For example: it's saying Bush and co. were behind the thing somehow, and that Osama had nothing to do with it. In order to make it appear that Osama DID have something to do with it, they created a video that had a guy who wasn't Osama but looked like him say that he was behind it. Makes sense so far. But they did this so they could get America's will behind attacking Iraq and overturn Saddam. Saddam, as it has been shown over and over and over, had no ties to Osama. Bush and co. had to stretch things pretty far to even confuse people into thinking there was a connection. If Bush and co. engineered this whole thing, and were smart enough to do so in a way that there'd be no evidence that they'd done it, wouldn't they have been smart enough to have left Osama out of the thing altogether, and just made the false confession tape look like it was a confession made by Saddam? Or someone tied to Saddam's government? It's a silly story being presented in a dramatic way without any evidence, and without ANY ATTEMPT WHATEVER to discuss AND ANSWER the evidence that contradicts their claims. There's plenty of it out there. But doing something like showing a picture of the aftermath of the crash in Pennsylvania, and then showing a picture of a different plane crash in Africa and trying to imply from this that somehow EVERY PLANE CRASH should look like the one in Africa and so NO PLANE CRASH could possibly look like the photos from Pennsylvania is very much not science, and very much not logic, and very much nothing but propaganda.
SimonWaldram	Date: July 30, 2007 @ 10:11 AM The Popular Mechanics article is seen as pretty much an inaccurate hit piece within the 9/11 Truth movement. There is a good debunking of it here if you care to read it: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm You say "Bush and co. had to stretch things pretty far to even confuse people into thinking there was a connection." - and they did! Over and over again. I know you are saying why blame a guy not actually connected to Iraq as a pretext for invading Iraq, but the thing is the Bush family has long standing ties with the Bin Laden's. Here are a few articles on that: Greg Palast's well known piece for the BBC: Did their connections cause America to turn a blind eye to terrorism? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/newsnight/1645527.stm http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html Here is an article from the Times of India titled Bush took FBI agents off Laden family trail which contains the following: "In a reiteration of a now well-known claim by one of George W Bush’s former business partners, the BBC said he made his first million 20 years ago on the back of a company financed by Osama’s elder brother, Salem. But it added the more disturbing assertion that both presidents Bush had lucrative stakes along with the bin Ladens in Carlyle Corporation, a small private company which has gone on to become one of America's biggest defence contractors. The bin Ladens sold their stake in Carlyle soon after September 11, it said." http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Bush_Took_CIA_off.htm?art_id=1030259305 So the argument could be that the closer links to Bin Laden made it easier to involve him and then connect Al-Queda to Iraq than to blame Saddam and…what...? Get an actor to play him in a video? It's something Saddam would never have gone along with as he hated the US Government for the last 20 years and didn't want a war with Iraq. Also Iraq was a secular state, and Saddam never made any claims to jihad or any other extremist actions. You are right in that the documentary did not go into enough detail on certain issues, but that not mean that the evidence isn't there. If you have a different take on 9/11 that's fair enough, but the more you look into it the less crazy the conspiracy's sound.
kingo	Date: July 30, 2007 @ 10:43 AM On 30th Jul 2009, SimonWaldram said: So the argument could be that the closer links to Bin Laden made it easier to involve him and then connect Al-Queda to Iraq than to blame Saddam and…what...? Get an actor to play him in a video? It's something Saddam would never have gone along with as he hated the US Government for the last 20 years and didn't want a war with Iraq. Except that the movie is asserting EXACTLY that -- that bush and co. had an actor play Osama in the confession video. It isn't asserting that Osama was hired by Bush to plan the attacks, it's asserting that Osama had nothing to do with it. Except that right after that it goes to pains to try to explain the fact that Bush and his family has ties to the Bin Laden family. Which is also what you just did. Again, there's no sense in that: why would Bush and co, smart enough to devise and pull off this whole thing, then do something so stupid as to blame someone to whom they can be so easily linked? I understand that these questions can be answered with more scenarios and hypotheticals and scary-what-ifs, but my point is that there's no proof of anything whatever offered in that film. And there's similarly no proof of anything whatever offered in the article debunking the popular mechanics article. The logical holes in the Zeitgeist film are glaring and obvious, regardless of whether or not there was a conspiracy. The kind of "logic" being used for the film (and, as far as I can tell, in a lot of the stuff purporting to give evidence of a conspiracy) is the same kind of "logic" that's used by those who support the teaching of intelligent design in American schools. Find a detail, no matter how minute, say that it doesn't agree with the "official story," and then posit that such disagreement clearly indicates that the entire story is a lie, without in fact offering any verifiable alternate story.
TameasDust	Date: July 30, 2007 @ 12:09 PM If you want me to think you have to pay me more
SimonWaldram	Date: August 4, 2007 @ 10:45 AM Hey, you know, you said something there that I find confusion too: Why would the American government go out of there way to blame Osama Bin Laden for 9/11 - hell, not just blame him but make him into some onniscient 21st century boogie man - when he has direct links to both the CIA and the Bush family. Like you said, they could have blamed it on anyone if they wanted to. As for the "they're all just hypothetical arguments", tell them to all the people - firefighters and regular citizens alike - who saw and heard bombs go off in the WTC. Or explain how a pancake collapse could have taken down the steel spine of the building, or how Building 7 collapsed by itself. There's plenty of evidence out there - if there wasn't the 9/11 truth movement wouldn't still be growing. Here are a couple of documentaries on the collapse of the towers which you might not have seen: The 9/11 Mysteries: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1921357139285191482&q=911+mysteries Improbable Collapse: The Demolition of Our Republic: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782
FraDonaghy	Date: August 4, 2007 @ 1:17 PM I do believe it gives the current US govt way too much credit to say they masterminded the 9-11 attacks. However, the implication that they did so plays into their hands and gives them an image of being powerful and in control. I reckon they'd prefer you thought that of them than actually believed they let the ball slip and let their flagship city be the victim of a terrorist attack even though they had years of forewarning and did nothing about it. Don't get me wrong, there are some dodgy coincidences around the 9-11 event, and they do lead to suspicions. Who is to say though that they are not just exactly that - coincidences - and ones that have been spun, by either overenthusiastic media types or by the government themselves to create this conspiracy. The fear of an all powerful government will cause many to fall in line, the fear of an incompetent one will cause many more to revolt and replace it.
kingo	Date: August 4, 2007 @ 5:45 PM On 4th Aug 2009, SimonWaldram said: As for the "they're all just hypothetical arguments", tell them to all the people - firefighters and regular citizens alike - who saw and heard bombs go off in the WTC. Or explain how a pancake collapse could have taken down the steel spine of the building, or how Building 7 collapsed by itself. No no. They heard loud explosions. When shit's on fire and buildings are collapsing, I'm not personally surprised that there are sounds of explosions. There's no way that that's proof of a bomb. It COULD be a bomb, but it could also be not a bomb -- therefore take the simplest answer until other evidence is available. And I don't know how a "pancake collapse" could do anything to a building. I'm not a structural engineer. On 4th Aug 2009, SimonWaldram said: There's plenty of evidence out there - if there wasn't the 9/11 truth movement wouldn't still be growing. 'zat so? Then it logically follows that because there's no evidence of Jesus' divinity, Christianity should stop growing any time now. Hell, with no evidence for the existence of any gods at all, everyone will probably be an atheist by the end of the week. And with no evidence that Elvis isn't dead, the cult of people saying he's not should probably disappear in a sec. Right? And, oh, the scientologists. They don't have any evidence that we're all an alien civilization's science project, so I imagine that organization will close up shop tomorrow.
SimonWaldram	Date: August 4, 2007 @ 5:58 PM Hey, you know, you're right, people believe in things for more reasons than just knowing facts. Well done for pointing that out. It's pretty trite to compare this to something like people believing Elvis is still alive, though. I guess the proof there would be...I don't know, his body, maybe? The 9/11 truth movement is growing because more people are becoming aware that the government which lied to them about Saddam and sent thousands of it's citizens to death in an unnecessary and illegal invasion is - surprise! also not telling the truth about the Twin Towers either. Okay, the bombs: Here is a clip of a man called William Rodriguez. He was a janitor in the north tower and was the last known person out of the building. Here's a short clip of what he heard and saw. If you want to know more just search for his, but at least listen to him: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wIZtqKiidlo Btw, did you watch any of the last two documentaries I gave links to?
GreatGooglyM...	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 6:27 AM I'm getting sick of these 9/11 pseudo-documentaries.
BlackMage	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 9:44 AM here ." id="273017">The truth is in here .
BlackMage	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 9:44 AM Wow, that worked. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
SimonWaldram	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 10:07 AM Yeah, you're right, that page really get to the heart of the matter and gives full and details answers to all the myriad unanswered questions. Oh, I mean except for all of these, of course: http://vt911.org/final911Questions.htm
BlackMage	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 10:22 AM More on that later.
TheTimbreWolf	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 11:52 PM seems like conspricists have no life other than trying to prove this and that. suprised they have anytime for great things such as music, rock and roll, sex...
TheTimbreWolf	Date: August 5, 2007 @ 11:53 PM 4/5 conspiricists do not get laid.
NickSawyer	Date: August 6, 2007 @ 11:15 AM I saw the movie, and it seemed like most of the information was backed quite well. Infact there is a list of resources on the Zeitgeist movie. If this movie is propaganda, it's the most truthful and convincing propaganda I've ever seen

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