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recording amp to computer

entro	Date: March 25, 2002 @ 8:36 PM Ok if I hook up the amp to line in on the computer, and turn it up (on amp), I'll blow the fuses on the soundcard. Any ideas on how not to blow em out while still recording at the right amp volume? (I'm up for buying equipment upto 50$ total). Been bumming me out for awhile so any suggestions appreciated, thanks.
simoncowells...	Date: March 25, 2002 @ 9:04 PM Ok this is what you do! or this is what I have done! you put a mic directly into your sound card and put the mic up against your amp and adjust your volume intill it doesnt make your speakers crackle!dont and I repeat dont run the mic through any thing! plug it directly into the sound card! I have done this and it works very well! need proof check out my song dirty water by the guppy killers in the rock area on d music that song was done with an amp and a mic goin in to the sound card and then I used that cheap sound recorder that comes with windows!
pog	Date: March 25, 2002 @ 9:08 PM The reason I suggest this way is 'cos the way you're trying to do it, there's no where for the excess power to go. Prolly pushing too many volts into your soundcard... You may wanna try putting your post/master level down like on 0.2 (naff all), and turn your gain/pre level right up full, but you're way better off buying a mic." id="6342">Yup what guppy said...One of the most used ways is to get half decent microphone (mike up the amp and plug the mic into your pc). Try to find a "Sure" (sm5 mic if you can (even 2nd hand) as it's the industry standard, but generally the heavier the mic the better. The reason I suggest this way is 'cos the way you're trying to do it, there's no where for the excess power to go. Prolly pushing too many volts into your soundcard... You may wanna try putting your post/master level down like on 0.2 (naff all), and turn your gain/pre level right up full, but you're way better off buying a mic.
pog	Date: March 25, 2002 @ 9:09 PM (sm5 was meant to say sm58
simoncowells...	Date: March 25, 2002 @ 10:34 PM ya!
milladrive	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 9:08 AM Entro, there really isn't much gear-buying advice I can give you for less than $50, because what you really need to solve your problem is a fader somewhere between the amp and the soundcard. A mixer is my best advice. Otherwise, the only fader you have is the amp's output, and this is what you're tryin' to get away from. :)" id="6359">You guys have such great intentions; i only wish the info were more than half complete. We can't just instruct someone to simply plug their mic into the sound card (or anything else for that matter) until we find out what kinda mic someone's usin'. Does the mic require phantom power or use tubes?? I mean, plug in a hi-end Blue or Neumann top a simple pc soundcard, and odds are no sound will be produced. Naturally, I'm just covering the bases. Few people around here have powered mics, and Shure 57 and 58 are the most practical mics on the market. However, playing w/faders without giving any concern to the mic's placement may "work," but I'm pretty sure there are better ways to try first. On top of this, entro hasn't even mentioned a microphone; sounds to me like he's direct-lining (which, btw, is preferable for all recording but drums and vox). We should try all direct-line solutions -before- we begin introducing a mic into the equation. Entro, there really isn't much gear-buying advice I can give you for less than $50, because what you really need to solve your problem is a fader somewhere between the amp and the soundcard. A mixer is my best advice. Otherwise, the only fader you have is the amp's output, and this is what you're tryin' to get away from.
tirthankara	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 1:23 PM i have a four channel mixing amp that translates just fine to my sound card. the microphone rig up sounds dirty though.
tirthankara	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 1:26 PM aside from that, i have fed various synths and machines into my sound card directly using standard stereo cable with nothing between the two, and the sound quality was impeccable.
ebjcoat	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 2:26 PM milla's right, I think he know's his shit.
tirthankara	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 3:45 PM i would think so. the microphone-held-up-to-amp idea doesn't seem very functional to me.
simoncowells...	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 3:48 PM all what I know is if you put a mic in with a power source going to it you could fuck your computer up big time!
tirthankara	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 3:55 PM i dunno. i've never used microphones. i don't like vocals. generally large amounts of electricity and computers do not mix very well.
autarch	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 8:00 PM http://www.thepivot.net/rock/astroxxx.mp3 " id="6381">Try going direct. If the amp has a line out on it, get an adapter and go from that to the line in on the sound card. Make sure it’s a LINE level out, not a powered speaker out, and you’ll be ok… Or, if you have pedal(s) come right out of that into the sound card. I come right out of my $99 Korg pedal with my guitar into my line in and it works VERY well. Sure direct recording is no way to make an album, but it's easier at home than micing and will most often, I think, sound better with cheap gear. Which I have a lot of. Here is a link to a very silly song I did. WARNING!! THE LYRICS ARE OF A SEXUAL NATURE!!!!!! Which is why I won’t post the song, but I think the guitars came out ok. http://www.thepivot.net/rock/astroxxx.mp3
pog	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 8:17 PM A fader ! Ya know milla I didn't think of that (damn, he's good). I was wondering if there's a free program we can get to graphically show the input levels to your soundcard ? It'd be handy to monitor input levels whilst setting up to record. I've seen 'em on multitrackers, but as yet havn't seen a simple soundcard monitor for this purpose.
milladrive	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 8:44 PM Evidently, gentlemen, entro's main issue is that if he plugs in his amp directly to his sc and turns up the amp he'll screw up his card. Quite understandable. Considering the card most likely does NOT have a way to adjust the signal level, he'll need some sorta fader/gain between the amp and the card. The most efficient way to do this short of jury-rigging a potentiometer w/a soldering gun is.. a mixer, whether it be a dedicated board or a multitrack portastudio. I dunno how a microphone ever got into this conversation. heh tirth, autarch, I'm sure you -have- plugged things directly into the card with no problems. Keyboards, workstations, drum machines, guitars, guitar pedals, signal processors, etc., _don't_ generate power. Not everything has a preamp, like an amplifier does. ..or a powered mic does. Plug these things into a sound card, crank them up, and, like guppy says, start pricing new sound cards. Autarch, you seem to have the concept, altho you describe a simple switch when a fader/gain can set the level anywhere in between. And who decided direct recording was no way to make an album? Whether at home or at Abbey Road Studios, like i said before, direct-lining is preferable for everything electric. Vox, drums, piano, winds, etc., obviously must be miked up, but the idea is to harness the sound w/as few extraneous air particles as possible. A direct signal eliminates the air. It should be utilized w/everything possible. ..unless, of course, you're goin' for a particular sound or effect. poggy, that's a good question, and they're out there, but they're hardly free, and they usually come w/the card. Some of the higher-end Echo cards come w/some nice meters, like the Mona, but that'll set'cha back almost a grand. Even dedicated circuitry often comes without clipping lights, tho, so i'm not really surprised. Once again, an inexpensive mixing board can do the trick. If you've got a portastudio you're all set.
pog	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 8:55 PM sorry my bad. I usually record by close mic and a di placed after a signal processor (roland ME10), but that's unique to a transistor amp setup. I only suggested the mic cos it's handy to record anything you put it on... agreed it is a bit lossy.
autarch	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 9:36 PM Just to answer Milla's question: I didn't decide that. Direct all the way... but I have recorded TONS of players who just can't get their "sound," without an amp. I would imagine that under ideal circumstances (in a million dollar studio) you'd get a better sound micing the amp than running direct and lots of players wouldn't be happy unless you let them plug in and crank it. That's all.
milladrive	Date: March 26, 2002 @ 11:35 PM I'm with ya, man. ...no biggie, pog. i say we do whatever works.
oat	Date: March 27, 2002 @ 11:03 AM A quality mic is the key. It is also good to have a solid interface between the computer and analog environment. i use a behringer mixer run directly into my soundcard with a high end large diaphragm mic(powered) this allows room to work with the signal and to put a limit on the overall signal strength going to the card.
oat	Date: March 27, 2002 @ 11:07 AM can't stress the good mics enough, it is well worth your while if you intend on self production of your material to invest 300/400 dollars on a qualityy sennheiser or akg.
entro	Date: March 27, 2002 @ 7:24 PM lol as stated I want a 50$ solution - I spend enough on amplifiers and guitars not to want to crank out 400 on a mic - when I don't sing. I've blown one sound card (guess the fuses were never intended to actually serve their purpose) when cranking the amp [some settings sound better louder ]. Yes I know I can plug my guitar directly into the computer (will come out sorta distorted/metallic), but I want to have the amp inbetween [or pedal]. Milla, is there a thing which will have a little arrow pointing to how loud it is [stay outta the red] which I can plug the amp to [I have headphone out and speaker out, I can use headphone which I guess is modulated] and lets me adjust the output? (Any specific suggestions?) And yes I think we all realize if the budget is 100k we can do anything imaginable, but the reality is different. Thanks for all the ideas!
pog	Date: March 27, 2002 @ 7:36 PM You may still be able to find a small mixing device/desk at a 2nd hand shop.
simoncowells...	Date: March 27, 2002 @ 10:45 PM to many idea's so many brains! I feel like we are turning into borg's joining thoughts! milli is the mother bee and we all drift endlessly in and out waiting for him to tell us our next move! oh the horror!
pog	Date: March 28, 2002 @ 12:52 AM heheh... bungholio
milladrive	Date: March 28, 2002 @ 11:24 AM Musician's Friend. They've got several. This will help you protect future fuses. :) As for the question of controlling the sound signal, your only option without a fader in between the amp and the computer is to use the volume knob on the amp. Pog, you also raised the question of the ability to monitor the sound signal. This can be done at any point on the path of the sound. However, when recording, we want the meters measuring whats bein' recorded to be as close to the sound's destination as possible. This means that when usin' the computer, these meters should ideally be on the pretty component that comes w/our sound cards. What component, you ask? That's okay, mine didn't come w/1 either. Most don't. High-enders do. Hell, w/most sound cards, you're lucky to have more than an 1/8-inch stereo input (which really bites the big one, heh). Our next option is the software bein' used to record. Many of even the highest-end apps fail to come w/record-level meters, too. Some do, like Sound Forge and Vegas Pro, but not most. But after all, they're of limited use since I have yet to find the application that allows us to ADJUST the recording level. Freaky, right? but that's just how it is. Apparently, signal output is everything in the world of digital. ;) Now, I need to be pleasured some more. :p" id="6504">Mmm, that feels so good. ..uh, no, wait, a little to the right.... down... no no, too far... up.. ..up.. ...aahhhhhhh, right there. Aiight. Let it be known that I will seldom suggest high-end equipment for the home recordist. I simply see no reason, for instance, in buying a $400 mic to be used entirely at home, when a $100 Shure will do just wonderfully. Let the studios buy the Neumanns; they need'em. Actually, entro, the fuses did serve their purpose. They blew when the power got to be too great. hehe. Sounds like they did a fine job. ...but now, wouldn't it be a novel concept for the sound card to come with little circuit breakers instead of little fuses?? sighs I wanna make sure we keep the differences separate between signal and power. One is a stream of sound and the other is a stream of voltage. They are very different. No stream of sound has ever rendered useless anybody's sound card. I've been up to now combining fader and gain as if they're the same thing but they're not. A fader usually controls how much signal is allowed thru, while a gain usually controls the power. So, keep in mind that adjusting the level of what's bein' laid down on tape/wav is entirely different from adjusting the level of power going to the hardware. They can and often are done w/the same knob, tho -- and power often affects sound -- so I think this is what confuses most folks. Cranking up the amp into a Fostex multitracker or simple mixerboard may indeed make those items as worthless as your blown sound card. ...unless you use the headphone jack out of the amp, which is usually sumpm like half a watt or so. Ideally, you'd like a line out to go along w/your speaker and headphone jacks, but many guitar amps lack them, so the headphone jack is your best choice for direct-lining.... ..However, you can probably use your amp's speaker out and direct-line if you use a power conditioner, like a RackRider or a Furman. Most come w/crucial readouts, too. And many are not expensive. Anywhere between $40 and, say, $150. ..and high-end can be $500 and up. Go check out Musician's Friend. They've got several. This will help you protect future fuses. As for the question of controlling the sound signal, your only option without a fader in between the amp and the computer is to use the volume knob on the amp. Pog, you also raised the question of the ability to monitor the sound signal. This can be done at any point on the path of the sound. However, when recording, we want the meters measuring whats bein' recorded to be as close to the sound's destination as possible. This means that when usin' the computer, these meters should ideally be on the pretty component that comes w/our sound cards. What component, you ask? That's okay, mine didn't come w/1 either. Most don't. High-enders do. Hell, w/most sound cards, you're lucky to have more than an 1/8-inch stereo input (which really bites the big one, heh). Our next option is the software bein' used to record. Many of even the highest-end apps fail to come w/record-level meters, too. Some do, like Sound Forge and Vegas Pro, but not most. But after all, they're of limited use since I have yet to find the application that allows us to ADJUST the recording level. Freaky, right? but that's just how it is. Apparently, signal output is everything in the world of digital. Now, I need to be pleasured some more.
tschidaville	Date: March 31, 2002 @ 12:47 AM What Really Suffers Here Is The Almighty Tone, Plain And Freakin' Simple, No Direct Boxlink-D.I. will repoduce the singing maple top of a Les Paul tearing through a Late Sixty's Stock 50w Plexi with vintage greenbacks,which in fact have to be overdriven to some extent to sound good.
tschidaville	Date: March 31, 2002 @ 12:48 AM Spend The Cash On A Decent Tube Mic
pog	Date: March 31, 2002 @ 12:58 AM wow... deja vu.
simoncowells...	Date: March 31, 2002 @ 8:49 AM the mic is king! I have a much better mic now then before! my old mic was made from like radio shack! let me tell you what a piece of shit to work with!