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Why Pop Music Is Soul-less

GeneHilbert	Date: December 23, 2006 @ 12:48 PM Just about sums it up..... http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1165153165/Why_Pop_Music_Is_Soul-less_and_Wrong
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: December 23, 2006 @ 1:00 PM Yup, talent is secondary to model looks and big t***, producers and songwriter's have always been propping up under talented artists who had the looks but now the game is just too easy, autotune and a good video is all that's required to make someone a star who has the right image. A bit discouraging for old boot ugly musicians such as moi P.S. These people often are around for 2 years then are dumped faster than a 5 day old takeout box that's starting to ming and often are to be found on the end of a noose or dead in an alley with a needle in their arm before they are 30, so the 'instant star' syndrome is not always as rosy as it sounds.
moam	Date: December 23, 2006 @ 1:32 PM Wow... is all I gotta say
Tallisman	Date: December 23, 2006 @ 2:19 PM Imagine if britney paris simpson looked like reba? where would the be?
DrowningBetty	Date: December 24, 2006 @ 4:29 AM well i personally find reba attractive. and country music is alot more forgiving than pop.
GeneHilbert	Date: December 24, 2006 @ 11:36 AM It's not just the bimbo's - producer bands have been around for years, 'N Sync, Milli Vanilli, Village People, Back Street Boys. This is just an example how market control perpetuates bad art. Spoon feeding the populace bullshit, all while promoting it as the next, best, hip new thing.
DeadraveN	Date: December 24, 2006 @ 3:53 PM Sad yeah, but who cares anymore? There's still good music out there, it's just a little harder to find. that's what sites like this are for. as long as twleve year old girls who don't know any better are the ones buying the CD's, the markets going to be driven by whatever they can churn out fastest and cheapest. and these pop-stars are definately fast and cheap.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: December 24, 2006 @ 4:14 PM For sure Gene - heck, the Monkees (except Peter Tork), Herman's Hermits, Boney M., Black Box etc all of them propped up by producers, songwriters and anonymous backing musicians who got no credit. Fronted by people with 'sex appeal' over talent. It just seems even easier than ever these days, given the technology...
tracy	Date: December 24, 2006 @ 9:42 PM
Opossum	Date: December 25, 2006 @ 2:03 AM On 24th Dec 2009, leedsquietman said: For sure Gene - heck, the Monkees (except Peter Tork), Herman's Hermits, Boney M., Black Box etc all of them propped up by producers, songwriters and anonymous backing musicians who got no credit. Fronted by people with 'sex appeal' over talent. It just seems even easier than ever these days, given the technology... I didn't know that about Herman's Hermits. Shows you what I know.
evansorchid	Date: December 26, 2006 @ 9:51 PM *Mama's not coming home tonight* Who was that? I gotta go get that CD....
Woof	Date: December 26, 2006 @ 10:50 PM Gene, I've gotta give you credit for a great topic, although I'm not sure I agree with the info in the clip being at the heart of the matter... Pop music has always been the result of a "production" effort... way back to the days of The Beatles and Elvis, even. The technology's better today, and able to fix more mistakes, but I don't think it can be solely blamed for the lack of magic in pop music. As DeadraveN mentioned, great pop is still out there, but just harder to find. That said, I do agree 100% that the pop genre in America is vapid. And I think there's reason for it to be. Maybe I've seen too many Oliver Stone films in my day, but I believe the reason it's soulless has to do with things darker and more sinister than we can imagine. Great pop music lifts us up. It fills us with emotions that we can barely control, and validates our value as individuals. When great pop is in our hearts and minds, we think and feel differently. We become inspired to express ourselves as individuals, and rise above our pettiness and desires for personal gain. In a sense, we become freed from the chains of the world, and become better people. Corporate America doesn't want us to feel that way. There's no profit to be had from free thinking individuals who are enraptured. People in that frame of mind don't go out and buy brand new cars, plasma TV's, PS3's, and tons of other electronic gadgets to alleviate the inevitable depression that results from life without joy. So the music is deliberately soulless and meaningless to avoid stirring up the masses. You might even say that the music is placid... like a painkiller or depressant. We listen to it, and feel weak, helpless, depressed, and useless. At that point, we buy more stuff to give us a sense of control, and a sense of identity. It's bullshit, but it works. So the songs are all about teen sex, or teen love, or meaningless trite drivel that has no subject at all. And this isn't just the lyrics, either... the very FEEL of the music is meant to pacify. Has pop lost it's soul? Absolutely not. All of those feelings are still out there for anybody that wants them, providing you're willing to do a little prospecting to find the good stuff. What's on American radio, however, is both a tragedy and a disgrace. Thank you, and I hope that you all had a fantastic Christmas! Peace.
DeadraveN	Date: December 27, 2006 @ 11:44 AM Woof just depressed me.
GeneHilbert	Date: December 27, 2006 @ 12:39 PM I don't see this as a condemnation of the genre; however this is something I've observed for years. This video just demonstrates a small part of the process, and there is much more on the recording, production, marketing and packaging end not represented here. Pop is pop, and it contains good and bad, as does every style. However pop, rap and hip hop or any style that requires youthful appeal and exuberance, and can disguise a limited degree of instrumental or vocal proficiency; focused at a naive, hungry, enthusiastic, free spending audience is ripe for this type exploitation and manipulation. Making this industry extremely difficult and limiting to talented players and singers. Especially those lacking inside connections, financing; or that are not teen idol material ready to sell their souls to the Devil. Many talented individuals are simply cast aside. Most of which are never made aware of how difficult and frustrating the music business is until it’s too late. So for you young aspiring pop stars; practice hard, stay in school and if you want it hard enough – who knows. Stranger things have happened……. Can you say……… Macarena…….
DeadraveN	Date: December 27, 2006 @ 1:17 PM I am still buying souls at an impressive rate, though.. don't forget that. dreams can some true!
Tallisman	Date: December 27, 2006 @ 1:37 PM Woof: Well put it seems that pop music today, rather pop radio today is part of the well oil system created to produce the uber-consumer! Oddly, I have met many people that just love the trite drivel that we (I) loathe? I still can't figure it out. Probably never will. Boogiewityabadself!
DeadraveN	Date: December 27, 2006 @ 1:40 PM all I know is that video made me really want pizza.
TimiHendrix91	Date: December 31, 2006 @ 2:20 PM On 26th Dec 2009, Woof said: Gene, I've gotta give you credit for a great topic, although I'm not sure I agree with the info in the clip being at the heart of the matter... Pop music has always been the result of a "production" effort... way back to the days of The Beatles and Elvis, even. The technology's better today, and able to fix more mistakes, but I don't think it can be solely blamed for the lack of magic in pop music. As DeadraveN mentioned, great pop is still out there, but just harder to find. That said, I do agree 100% that the pop genre in America is vapid. And I think there's reason for it to be. Maybe I've seen too many Oliver Stone films in my day, but I believe the reason it's soulless has to do with things darker and more sinister than we can imagine. Great pop music lifts us up. It fills us with emotions that we can barely control, and validates our value as individuals. When great pop is in our hearts and minds, we think and feel differently. We become inspired to express ourselves as individuals, and rise above our pettiness and desires for personal gain. In a sense, we become freed from the chains of the world, and become better people. Corporate America doesn't want us to feel that way. There's no profit to be had from free thinking individuals who are enraptured. People in that frame of mind don't go out and buy brand new cars, plasma TV's, PS3's, and tons of other electronic gadgets to alleviate the inevitable depression that results from life without joy. So the music is deliberately soulless and meaningless to avoid stirring up the masses. You might even say that the music is placid... like a painkiller or depressant. We listen to it, and feel weak, helpless, depressed, and useless. At that point, we buy more stuff to give us a sense of control, and a sense of identity. It's bullshit, but it works. So the songs are all about teen sex, or teen love, or meaningless trite drivel that has no subject at all. And this isn't just the lyrics, either... the very FEEL of the music is meant to pacify. Has pop lost it's soul? Absolutely not. All of those feelings are still out there for anybody that wants them, providing you're willing to do a little prospecting to find the good stuff. What's on American radio, however, is both a tragedy and a disgrace. Thank you, and I hope that you all had a fantastic Christmas! Peace. very well put. Though, you must admit pop music that was The Beatles and The Rolling Stones i not pop music today that is Shakira or The Pussycat Dolls. I think you were right with what you said, if we teenagers of today are inspired to change the world and not be happy with the status quo the big company CEOs are going to lose money, and they don't want that.
Woof	Date: December 31, 2006 @ 3:18 PM Timi, thanks for resurrecting this topic. I was beginning to think no one cares... I agree with you 100% that what you'll find in the pop genre today leaves something to be desired. That doesn't mean that great songs still aren't being written and performed. It just means that you aren't going to find them in the Billboard Hot 100. I think the thing is to look for work that strikes that special chord in you... work that you can't help but love... and then support those artists, instead of casually picking up the latest CD's at Wal Mart as sort of an afterthought while you're shopping for other things. Because every CD that you buy sends a message to the record companies. It tells them that you approve, and that they will profit by the artist's work that you've just bought. If 10 million people buy Shakira, the companies will assume that they're on the right track. Imagine what would happen if, out of the blue, 10 million people suddenly decided to order Mothers Of Invention CD's instead. Somebody with power would be rethinking their strategy, I can assure you... Major label, minor label, independent label... buy what you truly love, and only what you truly love. People really do notice.
mattbanx	Date: December 31, 2006 @ 7:35 PM Pop is just what the term says-To Be Popular. It started out as abstract forms of different genres from bands that were anything but souless. I think just about every genre has become saturated and diluted down. But who's to say that it still can't have soul? What I see happening more and more is that music has become so overttly political and derived that poppy acts might seem like a great escape. Acts like KC & The Sunshine Band became popular again for awhile back in the late nineties on the heels of a very polital decade in music. Even in the mainstream. There is still a lot of the mainstream that just likes to bob their heads to the sound. The early folk scene, which may have been the biggest genre for a time in the fifties and sixties would not stray far from their political confines in order to stay real. I can respect their honesty, but even if there was'nt the RIAA I think that people would still like James Taylor more than those pure traditional folkies. A lot of people like having something to relate to that does'nt challenge them too much. I am really glad that there is independent music, but that will probably always be the case.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 1, 2007 @ 12:07 PM I couldn't agree more..... Now, buy my CD.......... LOL
Jazzmary2U	Date: January 2, 2007 @ 7:02 PM People are addicted in this country to high fructose corn syrup, flour white and dry as the desert, large silicon boobs, peroxided hair, botox, RIAA crack-radio pop "hits.", cheap energy with no responsibility.. doesn't make it right.. I think this reflects the vapid mall-consumer culture that is intentionally pimped on us so some fat cat in a yacht can make even more money.. OK, you say.. maybe for you but not for me..
Jazzmary2U	Date: January 2, 2007 @ 7:04 PM Heck,Gene.. go to musicpill and buy all the great music that indy folks are doing here at dmusic!! GAWD!!! I love the internet!
Woof	Date: January 2, 2007 @ 9:58 PM Well, let's dig in a little deeper... Mattbanx is right about "pop" being derived from "popular". Indeed, for something to be genuinely pop, it must, by definition, be widely accepted. This is important, because when that acceptance happens, the songs become a sort of common language. People hum them, quote or sing lines from them to accent special moments, or simply enjoy the company of others who have been moved by the songs that they like. Popularity is a relative term, though... something can be very popular in a very small culture... meaning well-known and widely recognized. The important thing is, whether the culture is large or small, pop exists. That means that pop can exist in all genres, whether it's jazz, country, or hip-hop. Popular classical music has existed for an incredibly long time. So the question is, what circles do I want to travel in? To go where what's popular happens to also be what I like? It's unfortunate that we lose that flexibility as we get older and more settled in. We buy the house, the car, the furniture... raise the kids... life's circumstances can trap us. Then we find ourselves having to live in a place where we really don't like the culture, or the music, or the films... but we kind of have to familiarize ourselves with them, to get along. So... what really are the important things? Food, shelter, love... those tend to be a given. Peace? I'd like to have peace. Beyond that, though... to seek out others who you can bond with philosophically. The Holidays have just ended. How many of us found ourselves being nice to people we really couldn't stand, because it was Christmas. Then it's January 2nd, and well... all of that niceness is sure over, isn't it? What I'm saying is, we compromise all the time. Life is full of situations that demand it. At times, it's even a really good thing, because we come around to somebody else's perspective that's better than the one we originally had. What we can't change, though, are the things that touch us deeply. What breaks our hearts, breaks our hearts... and occasionally, there comes a point when life without that becomes too dismal to tolerate. When that happens, we can either try and numb the feelings, or we can find a better place. Expressions of freedom and individuality keep us sane. And what is one's sanity worth? So, if you find yourself enmeshed in art, music, and lifestyle that has become intolerable, move on... just a little farther down the road, there may be comfort and peace. At least, enough to make the days bearable. I imagine this would be especially tough for teenagers. Leaving school, leaving friends... taking the flak for admitting liking something that isn't approved by the rest of the herd... and maybe adulthood is about learning to recoil from the flames, because they can hurt you, instead of just standing there and taking it because you feel you have nowhere else to go. In brief, pop is everywhere... and as we learn to find our own individual homes, we thrive. I hope this is considered on-topic.
plungerboy	Date: January 17, 2007 @ 11:39 AM Why is so much pop music about sex. Lyrics to a top hit: male: ooh baby wanna play with your mmmm female: ooh baby come and play with my mmm cheap horns follow, with a rapper in the backround going uh yeah uh uh. Write this down people damnit!
shadowself	Date: January 17, 2007 @ 12:09 PM On 17th Jan 2009, plungerboy said: male: ooh baby wanna play with your mmmm hahaha I read that as "wanna play with your mom"
GeneHilbert	Date: January 17, 2007 @ 12:20 PM Work it, work it.........
Mojosnake	Date: January 17, 2007 @ 12:34 PM just evil!!!!!!!
vzeye	Date: January 20, 2007 @ 1:33 PM I wonder what the average audience IQ the broadcasters are counting on to sell such Pop music, is this why high school kids in Thailand have higher algebra scores than US kids?
vzeye	Date: January 20, 2007 @ 3:02 PM I wonder what the average audience IQ the broadcasters are counting on to sell such Pop music, is this why high school kids in Thailand have higher algebra scores than US kids?
mattbanx	Date: January 20, 2007 @ 5:21 PM Most of the kids I went to school with got into hard metal. One of the mildest of them was Metallica. Thailand kids need good rebel music so they can stand up to those ped rings they are getting sold off too. Educate them that way. I hate algebra!
plungerboy	Date: January 30, 2007 @ 10:30 AM Algebra?
JamesFreyyer	Date: February 7, 2007 @ 1:10 AM yeah there is a lot of souless music out there and it seems to get worse every year unfortunatly. but thats one of many reasons I play in a band where I'm able to write my own music cause i'm fuckin sick of this fake ass MTV pop bullshit!
Svensta	Date: February 7, 2007 @ 7:56 AM "There's no profit to be had from free thinking individuals who are enraptured. People in that frame of mind don't go out and buy brand new cars, plasma TV's, PS3's, and tons of other electronic gadgets to alleviate the inevitable depression that results from life without joy" And here I thought that I was a cynical bastard. It is a pretty polarized world where you can definitively state that all entertainment purchases as a whole, are merely subconscious efforts to fend off crushing waves of depression. I think you are entirely too black-n-white here. This isn't a world of 1950's cheerleaders and Home Economics classes anymore. Diversity is tolerated FAR FAR more than you might think, given your world-view. Tolerance is, actually, on the rise. It is the one (and probably only) positive side-effect to all this PC bullshit we're choking on. You refer to popular music, but you're really talking about any entertaining diversion, from Bubblegum pop to fly-fishing. Something that doesn't add to your long-term goals, yet eats up a chunk of your time and attention, purely for the hedonistic pleasure you derive from it. You talk about this i na very Puritanical sense. How it is just a subconscious drive to escape from horror. It is not. We're hedonists, all of us. By want if not by means. We'd all rather be doing something else. We have our chores, our work, our errands, and then there are our hobbies, our passions, and our pasttimes. We don't need one as a release from another. We're just NOT creatures of extremes. If you do ANYTHING too much, it burns us in the ass. So the hell-bent executive or the OT-clocking assembly line worker still both need a release, an escape. Not because our lives are barely-survivable hells, but because doing ANYTHING to excess becomes stale and unprofitable. Think about sleep. You might think you want it all the time, but sleep for 14 hours and then tell me you aren't starting to itch to get out of the bed and stretch your muscles. Popular music doesn't have a soul. Probably doesn't need one. Perception of reality IS reality and that is what makes music so goddamn wonderful. It is what you make of it. Seal never publishes his lyrics. When asked why, he says that it is more important for his listener to parse out his OWN version, to hear the words he WANTS to hear in it. To make it his own, to give it soul. Music in a vacuum is just harmonic noise. Music in an ear can be art. Before you start bitching that this music or that music is worthless, think for a minute about how someone who loves it feels about it, and why. I'll watch my bride dance to some of the 'dumbest' pop confections in recent memory and they become orchestral works in the curves and swayings of her body. Music. What you get out of it, is what you put into it. "Let's face it, America gets the celebrities [and pop music] it deserves"
Woof	Date: February 7, 2007 @ 6:40 PM Svensta, I've gotta give credit where it's due. You've presented an intelligent, thoughtful, logical, well-written counter argument. That's something to be applauded. I stand by what I wrote.
Snoogans775	Date: February 8, 2007 @ 3:20 PM I think that we're polarizing the issue, I agree with a little bit of most the arguments here. On 7th Feb 2009, Svensta said: Popular music doesn't have a soul. Probably doesn't need one. Perception of reality IS reality and that is what makes music so goddamn wonderful. It is what you make of it. Seal never publishes his lyrics. When asked why, he says that it is more important for his listener to parse out his OWN version, to hear the words he WANTS to hear in it. To make it his own, to give it soul. I think that is an undeniable element of the music we listen too. There are so many musicians who agree that pop music is bad, we forget to be subjective because it feels like this opinion is becoming a fact. But music is too deep, to abstract, too intact, for us to pick at it and come up with a universal truth about it. Basically, if you like the music, it may be giving you something you want or need, and there's no harm in that. But everything has more than one effect, I like a lot of japanese JPOP, but I don't listen to it too much because I use it to anesthetize myself when I'm sick of feeling a certain way, and that can be more painful down the road. and that's all been said. but the important part is the business, the marketing deception, the insincere music. If there was no mass deception vehicle like MTV, there would be no Paris Hilton album on the charts. It's our support of that vehicle which further leads us into a world of cookie cutter children.
Orion	Date: February 17, 2007 @ 10:09 AM pop SUCKS!!!!.. MOTHA FUCKIN METALLICA KICKS ASS!!!!!! ...we need a bass player emote
Orion	Date: February 17, 2007 @ 10:09 AM FUCK POP!
GeneHilbert	Date: February 17, 2007 @ 12:17 PM Hell, Metallica is Pop, Metallipop
Orion	Date: March 1, 2007 @ 7:11 AM I was talkin about pre newstead Metallica that band went to shit when Cliff died.
EvalLin	Date: March 1, 2007 @ 10:34 AM I think it's because there making studio albums. Everything is so crisp and perfect in Pop that it loses it's meaning. The song "Helena", by my chemical romance is a good example, it's an "instant hit" when combined with the video, but after the first few listens you never want to hear it again. I saw a video of them performing the song live, wow did it suck. They didn't even come close to the album version. But it did have some feeling in it. I guess at some point the record company steps in and uses the same repetitive "hit making" techniques, but doesn't allow the artist to develope.
GeneHilbert	Date: March 1, 2007 @ 4:06 PM They could have been above all of that. They were successful enough to say no. But they started believing there own press and were corrupted by the system they fought against all of those years..... They were absorbed, and now these little puppets are masters of nothing but whining.....
JamesFreyyer	Date: March 11, 2007 @ 1:40 PM True but it just wasn't the same without him it's like if you have a person paint something for you then halfway thru he leaves and someone else steps in. The same applies for van halen it aint halen with hagar!
Orion	Date: March 11, 2007 @ 1:42 PM I agree with the bassist.
JamesFreyyer	Date: March 11, 2007 @ 1:44 PM DOWN WITH THE RIAA!!!!!!!
Dominon	Date: March 12, 2007 @ 6:02 PM The entire of West Europe and America is without soul. We do not fashion our materials and tools diretly from the mother earth. Every single thing we can ever dream or have need of is supplied by companies for a fee.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 12, 2007 @ 6:28 PM well, to a large extent but their are tools that use natural resources and not everything costs money ! And I think the soul in the thread relates more to passion. There are passionate musicians in Europe and North America, even if they're short supply !
Orion	Date: March 12, 2007 @ 8:24 PM Agreed if you play guitar,sing,drum etc. and you put everything you have into a song and not listen to some fatcat record exec and "sample" other peoples shit then it has soul
Woof	Date: March 12, 2007 @ 10:19 PM For the sake of keeping the argument simple, I'll just talk about vocals for now... Let's just say that, when someone who really can sing, wants to sing, and then does sing, it's got soul. The soul comes from the singer's inability to be unenthusiatic about what they're doing. Underneath the notes, the skills, and whatever else, that feeling coming through is what makes it all work. If it's someone's job, or someone's career, and they're just going through the motions, it shows. We might not be able to put our finger on it, but we sure can feel when something's there, and also when something's missing. Pop can stir the emotions to a point where we can't even explain why we love it... or even try to... when it's done well. And I guess if I had to come up with a rule of thumb for when it's working, that would be it. The best pop has always been material that I just can't help loving, regardless of who else likes it... and I've felt no need to explain why, or convince others to like it. Loving it is enough. And no, I don't buy the "technology ruined pop" logic. In the right hands, technology can take it to brand new heights. It's just become so much of a business, and people are so concerned about what will sell and what won't, that they've forgotten how it's supposed to feel to listen to the end product. Is this a conspiracy to numb us? Seriously, that was a sort of tongue-in-cheek editorial, meant to underscore the dismal nature of the current scene... the point I was trying to make, is that the scene really has become a cultural void... so much so, that such an argument is almost believable. The RIAA has been acting like a child who has found his father's gun... the child knows that he has come across something pretty important, but has no real comprehension of what it can actually do. They want to be the keepers of the flame, because they feel entitled. But they do not understand the responsibility that comes with that position. That responsibility, is simply to make people happy. And they're too preoccupied with the business end of things, to give that any consideration. People will always have that need, however... and pop, done as it ought to be, always seems to surface... because, despite all of the corruption, somebody always eventually cares enough to make something genuine happen. And the RIAA would like to take credit for that, but it was never to their credit that any of it happened. It was always accomplished by people who cared enough to make a little magic, and not be bothered with the business or legal end of things. Those distinctions have become so blurred, that it seems impossible to differentiate between the genuine, and the manipulated. But our hearts can tell the difference...
PrincessTast...	Date: March 13, 2007 @ 9:16 AM Well said.
GeneHilbert	Date: March 13, 2007 @ 10:29 AM I agree with the passion statements voiced here. However we all know artistic vision and business motivations make for strange and contradictory bed fellows. So, even the most passionately written songs are not freely the artistic visions when the production and marketing purse strings are not in their control. In professional and home kitchens there’s an adage that’s simple states. “Two many cooks spoil the pot”.
ray104	Date: February 23, 2008 @ 12:13 PM It's the Dynamic range compression

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