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Forums > Music Business: I Hate The RIAA!

Gene Simmons blames fans for killing the music industry

SimonWaldram	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 3:22 AM Kiss frontman Gene Simmons has blamed music fans for the demise of the music industry - and is begging them to stop downloading records illegally. The musician claims the modern process of downloading songs from the internet instead of buying songs on CD format is taking away artists' passion. He says, "The record industry is dead, it's six feet underground, and unfortunately the fans have done this. "They've decided to download and file share. There is no record industry around so we're going to wait until everybody settles down and becomes civilised." From WENN / Yahoo news: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/wenn/20080617/ten-kiss-blames-fans-for-killing-the-mus-c60bd6d.html Let's just say for argument's sake that we have killed the music industry... AWESOME! Well done everyone! We've destroyed a giant, greedy, immoral beast that pumped more and more bile and garbage into the world every single year - and all we had to do was download some MP3s!
ShadowMom	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 4:36 AM If the artist's passion is fueled by $$, then no big loss. There will always be another commercial darling like Britney on the RIAA horizon. Art? Passion?
zedsalt	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 5:02 AM Gene is as outmoded and irrelevant now as the system he's (prematurely) grieving, but God bless that haircoloring sponge of a head of his for being part of KISS.
Opossum	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 5:23 AM "...so we're going to wait until everybody settles down and becomes civilised."
StalloneLase...	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 5:27 AM gene simmons needs to be sodomized.
GeneHilbert	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 5:36 AM Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. Gene is still part of the machine and we all know that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks. So this is no surprise. As well - this is old hat really, but...... The only responsible parties for killing the music industry - is the music industry. A perfect example is how The Eagles are making more money now than they ever did with Elektra/Asylum. Of course they no longer need the PR machine either. Had the companies recognized the market potential of the original Napster. As well had not been force feeding us with some of the lamest bullshit music known to man, simply because they had the only game in town and could do what they pleased. They would still be the big shits they were. Anyway - with Ipods and downloadable products from their catalogs still being purchased, and with not having to produce as much physical products (CD production overhead) they are still making a shit load of profit..... Don’t be fooled.
Israfel	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 6:36 AM I take everything Gene Simmons says very seriously. Especially since he has that great reality TV show called "Family Jewels" and he was a contestant on Donald Trump's "Celebrity Apprentice".
GeneHilbert	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 7:03 AM On 17th Jun 2008, StalloneLaserArm said: gene simmons needs to be sodomized. I'll leave that job to you my friend..... I hope he's stump broke.
SimonWaldram	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 8:39 AM Okay, look: I now the music industry isn't really dead, and I know that Gene Simmons is an out of touch joke. All I meant was that people like him talk about the "death" of the music industry like it's something tragic, when it actually sounds like a pretty good idea to me
GeneHilbert	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 10:12 AM I have to say they've never done a damn thing for me business wise...... Of course my old albums are kewl.... They've had their moments - now the moments gone.....
StalloneLase...	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 12:09 PM On 17th Jun 2008, GeneHilbert said: [QUOTE info=StalloneLaserArm,June 17, 2008 @ 5:27 AM]gene simmons needs to be sodomized. I'll leave that job to you my friend..... I hope he's stump broke.[/QUOTE] whatever hilbert.
GeneHilbert	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 5:35 PM
leflaw	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 6:28 PM Gene Simmons tongue grosses me out, and Shannon Tweed is a nitwit. She should have been in the movie "Brazil"!
billrhynes	Date: June 17, 2008 @ 11:27 PM I was a KISS FANATIC when I was 12, and so were many other 12 year old boys. I have a friend my age that would cream at the chance to bid on a pair of Ace's moon boots tot his day, personally I don't get the infatuation carried over into middle age. The music was shit, and they were just plain crappy live. The only thing they had on their side was the ability to sell t-shirts/belt buckles and the fact that video taped concerts were pretty much non-existent while they were rising to the iconic status they achieved. They proved one thing, though, people want to buy an image. They pay for hype and love it, and while it's kinda funny to watch a pathetic egoed-out-to-the-max millionaire like Simmons beg for something, I can't help but acknlowledge the fact that the consumer has definately (in my humble opinion)cultivated a collective sense of entitlement to free product just because it's so damn easy to steal, regardless of whether it comes from hard-working independent musicians or spoiled corporate pigs like Simmons.
leedsquietman	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 12:12 AM This is a claim Simmons has been making for about 2 years now, needless to say, he has just recently packaged up 3 volumes of Kiss live footage on DVD (Kissology) which he been promoting like a maniac and he's still doing OK. Previous posts about the record industry doing this to themselves is spot on, but more recently they have adapted a bit, DVDs are much more diffiuclt to pirate and seem to have much more conclusive results in court re: guilty. Plus he still has a legion of fans out there that are willing to buy anything, would you want to buy Kiss condoms ... well someone does. I actually enjoy his 'reality' show Family Jewels, even though it's about 95% staged, it is quite a fascinating insight into how mega rich rockstars live and think (the episode with the bull semen being the best !). I also kind of like his upfrontness about plastic surgery and being a money grubber, I don't agree with most of what he stands for but at least he doesn't hide behind a a bunch of politically correct fools and pretend to be cool. (He's not at all, he's a near 60 year old dude who needs plastic surgery and make up artists to ft into his costumes and look human but he does acknowledge that)
GTOriginal	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 2:01 AM Am I the only person who remembers the "Kiss Army Coffin that doubles as a Beer Cooler?" I been saving my nickels since the 70s for one of those. I now have forty five cents. Guess Sharon's gonna hafta bury me in a hefty bag, and celebrate with warm beer.
Distilled1	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 2:11 AM Was a Fanatic in 3rd grade I think Kiss Alive first came out then 5th Alive II I had to have and traded a Mick Jager autograph for it ... (for the Tattos none the less could care less now, once in a while a song will play on the radio an its funny to hear some of them. I kinda give Gene respect as he is up front and says hes a money grubbing prick the show is kinda funny, if I'm board and happen to flip by it. Gary I think Gene re released new coffins!
miraclemaker	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 2:39 AM Being a fan in the past, I would beg to differ on Genes statement. For me, at the time of Kiss Army fan hood I actually purchased all albums, and even purchased some of the cds when they came out. Not to mention the fact that he can live off the merchandising profits anyway quite comfortably.
zedsalt	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 3:57 AM On 17th Jun 2008, SimonWaldram said: Okay, look: I now the music industry isn't really dead, and I know that Gene Simmons is an out of touch joke. All I meant was that people like him talk about the Righto! Let's celebrate! Ding dong, the paradigm's dead...
zedsalt	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 3:58 AM Yeah, I know- a Wizard of Oz reference? Well, I'm still heterosexual. I promise.
SimonWaldram	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 4:06 AM
SimonWaldram	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 5:09 AM On 18th Jun 2008, zedsalt said: [QUOTE info=SimonWaldram,June 17, 2008 @ 8:39 AM]Okay, look: I now the music industry isn't really dead, and I know that Gene Simmons is an out of touch joke. All I meant was that people like him talk about the Righto! Let's celebrate! Ding dong, the...[/QUOTE] Yes, it's a pointless thread, I know. I'm sorry okay? If we could edit/delete our posts/threads I would have got rid of this whole thing about 2 minutes after I started it.
Thaspian	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 5:26 AM an artist's passion is fueled by money in some sense. How can you record albums with no money? I don't mean shit sounding demos at home with an sm57 and a cracked cubase le(although, I don't demerit the work a good engineer could do with such a setup). How can you spend time making insightful records when you can't afford to live? stuff to think about. I still think gene simmons is a cunt.
ShadowMom	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 5:30 AM "Yes, it's a pointless thread, I know. I'm sorry okay? If we could edit/delete our posts/threads I would have got rid of this whole thing about 2 minutes after I started it." Is it? You have people discussing.. how is this bad?
SimonWaldram	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 5:43 AM On 18th Jun 2008, Thaspian said: an artist's passion is fueled by money in some sense. How can you record albums with no money? I don't mean shit sounding demos at home with an sm57 and a cracked cubase le(although, I don't demerit the work a good engineer could do with such a setup). How can you spend time making insightful records when you can't afford to live? stuff to think about. I still think gene simmons is a cunt. I don't think they are things you necessarily have to rely on a record company for. A lot of us here have full time jobs which pay for the music equipment / hardware we use. Also, given modern day technology you don't have to spend a fortune to get good sounding recordings (as oppossed to "shit sounding demos). There's also the opportunity to sell your music through independents media stores such as CDBaby, CafePress, Lulu.com, MusicPill etc. As for promotion...well there's all the sites we know and love as well as good old fashioned gigging. So there you go, we can make, press, sell and promote our records without even having to bother with the music industry
SimonWaldram	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 5:44 AM And Good point, Mom. I just felt bad for dragging up something old and then stating the obvious!
GTOriginal	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 7:21 AM Takes up collection for new coffin. Holds out cup
Tattoomom	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 9:01 AM Yeah Gary! You know they have some very nice Kiss coffins....
leedsquietman	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 9:32 AM There is a certain ratio of people now though who will NEVER pay for music again (had it free for too long and some of these people are far from being paupers, quite a good number have a nice living) and especially in the 13-23 years age bracket who have grown up on Limewire. There is also a certain amount of resentment that you should even want to SELL money, way too many people think 'independent music site' means FREE music site. No matter that you pay hundreds and thousands of dollars for equipment, software, hardware and whatever. This site is not much different unfortunately, we don't support each other much in terms of PURCHASING. Empire Day, Gene HIlbert, Tim Sanders, Moam, GTO, etc and others have great music out there, for reasonable prices and how many of us are supporting them ? Not so many, because I have polled several artists with CDs for sale and you'd be surprised and possibly saddened at the fact that we are happy to stream and download this great music but when it comes to coming up with a few measly bucks, our spirit of support is very thinly spread. So you can make, press, and sell your records but without the drive to push your music like a double glazing salesman who has 2 days to make his target or get fired (which can seriously take the fun and soul out of your music) you will find your basement full of boxes of CDs and a temptation to use them as drink coasters ...
SimonWaldram	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 11:32 AM I do agree with a lot of that, Martin. I'm going to have a CD up for sale later this year and I'm quite wary of facing a minor backlash for daring to ask people to actually pay for my music. I also know it probably won't sell many copies either. I have an album on the Internet Archive that's been downloaded over 4,000 times, but what are the odds my CD selling 4,000 copies? Pretty slim, I'm sure. Still, even if there are people now who mainly just download free music I know there's still a lot of people out there like me who'd prefer to buy records not only to support the artist but because we love the concept of "the album" rather than just having vast collections of MP3.
leedsquietman	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 1:59 PM My Umbriel Rising album has been downloaded over 3000 times but I only pressed 100 CDs, and still have about 15 copies of it left and that's after giving away another 12-15 copies to family and friends and a couple to pro media sites etc, so being a member of several websites and pushing it meant I sold about 60 copies mostly at 9 dollars per CD. Reducing the price temporarily to 7 and even 5 dolalrs had no effect, I think if you sell too low people are suspicious (this is low is the quality crap). Having said this, that was an electronic mostly instrumental album and there is more pull for well written vocal albums if the material is strong and Simon, your material is VERY strong, you have some of the best contemporary music I've heard in a long time. Your music tells of stories (factual, fictional and every shade inbetween) and you keep it real, you don't over glamorize and pretty it up but there is a refined quality too, it's not just adlibbed punk style. So don't allow me to put you off, but your promotion of the album will need to be good and extensive, and expect some nice surprises from some DMers and also expect some disappointment. One leading light here, who is universally acknowledged as a great artist and widely admired and respected in the forums and in the DM awards has sold only 3 copies to DM members in spite of awards and admiration. Thankfully, that artist picked up plenty of sales elsewhere !
Distilled1	Date: June 18, 2008 @ 2:17 PM ^ I still have boxes and I use the jewell cases still wraped and sealed as costers and when someone really wants one or ask nice I open it sign it throw in a CD-R of other stuff and send it off I think I am down to 250 from 2000 and I think give aways as well as those in stores or web fronts stock is probably about 1000, thats about 750 in almost 8 years... and I have to say I think its a good CD I know its retro and not everyones taste but still thats a lot not sold .. the local record store has sold about 100 at 10$ and I get 9$ off that as the deal I made.. but still need to go get my check LOL... it is real hard to sell them. and your right Simon people get mad when you want to be paid for your music ... I know from exp. and then you just give it away cause you want to have people like it love it or at least experience it.
zedsalt	Date: June 19, 2008 @ 3:25 AM I wish I could recall the exact dialogue from the bit where the doctor Munchkin declares the witch dead, because...as several people have noted here...the old paradigm isn't quite that sort of dead (more like practically, virtually, for most intents and purposes dead); it has been/is/will continue to be a populist revolution of sorts, and it will be worth talking about well after it DOES completely, utterly, most assuredly die (if that ever does really happen), lest we risk losing sight of what's important about the business of Art.
Tattoomom	Date: June 20, 2008 @ 7:15 AM That's funny...I blame Gene Simmons for the commercialism of good music.... I guess he better remember that old saying...anytime you point your finger at someone there's three more pointing back at you.... So there Mr. Millionaire who can't play more than 5 notes...
SimonWaldram	Date: June 20, 2008 @ 10:59 AM The irony of people complaining about us selling our music - as far as I can tell - is that they only have the idea to do it because we've spent X amount of years giving it away for free! If we'd always just sold CDs and not given away free music (now and before) I don't think anyone would actually say anything. There's a band called Hussalonia who give away all their music free on the net. Founder Jesse Mank even goes as far as saying that "By not releasing compact discs, Hussalonia reduces the consumption of fossil fuels (plastic), non-renewable minerals (aluminum), and the emission of greenhouse gasses (CO2 produced in transporting compact discs). Also, because the success of a nation is based solely on its economy, giving away music for free undermines this system which encourages rampant spending at the cost of the environment and human health. That's absolutely beautiful and I salute them. It is not, however, a stance I feel any other musician should feel at all pressured into taking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with artists being financially rewarded for their work and any music fan who thinks otherwise should realise that they are being the greedy ones and I would suggest that they try looking at the situation from our point of view. Like everyone else here I have a day job, and I work very hard in it. If my music can supplement my income and help me pay the bills that would be absolutely fantastic. One more thing: Martin, I was really touched by what you said about my music. I knew you liked it but I didn't realise you held it in such high regard. Thank you for the best compliment ever
leedsquietman	Date: June 20, 2008 @ 3:57 PM From the heart Simon, it's all true I think most independent artists allow some of their music to be available for free download and are not being greedy, most charge less than major label releases and have often have totally financed the project themselves, either by paying for studio time or having to buy their own equipment which can range from a couple of hundred if hundred dollars to thousands. So many of us are already out hundreds and/or thousands so why do people consider it wrong for people to release a CD and charge a nominal fee for it ? It seems less of a problem for gigging musicians who can take along a box for sale, but for those who are not performing live and selling online, some people have a who the f*** do they think they are, SELLING OUT. I had this said about me on this site by some individuals, when I was promoting my CD, even though I sold 15 copies of it to members at this site, for which I feel blessed and grateful. At the end of the day, I feel it's a real accomplishment to put out an official CD (even if you only sell a few copies), something tangible to be proud of, regardless of whether you make money, break even or lose on the deal. I just wish that people would remember and consider the amount of TIME (countless hours, which I cannot even start to put a financial amount on) and MONEY (investment in gear, cost of pressing/duplication/distribution.set up fees) of CDs before judging someone for daring to put music up for sale. Independent musicians should not be expected to put up all their music for free ALL the time !
elektronz	Date: June 20, 2008 @ 4:01 PM have you heard his version of firestarter by the prodigy ......terrible ..and i aint even going to comment on that video he made for it ...bloody hell !!!!
sinai	Date: June 20, 2008 @ 7:03 PM theres a german band that did a metal cover of firestarter for a tribute albumn, that one was fucking killer. the gene simmons one was some assy ass ass though.
Thaspian	Date: June 21, 2008 @ 7:50 PM I disagree completely. Technology has made it cheaper, but not better. Now people have the tools to do it themselves, but this doesn't make them an engineer. Recording professionally is a life long pursuit. You can't buy skill. A lot of artists' self recorded demos sound like total cock & balls compared to good legitimate releases, whereas good engineers did demos on adats 20 years ago that were absolutely amazing. I think the technology is making things worse. Instead of focusing on being a musician, more people are trying to make their own studio, and spend 10x as much as they would recording with competent professionals who do it everyday of their life, in a world class environment. They waste energy that could otherwise be used on sorting arrangements and playing on finding out what A/D converter is better or why you can't get more than 4 inputs via adat over SMUX..." id="291377">I don't think they are things you necessarily have to rely on a record company for. A lot of us here have full time jobs which pay for the music equipment / hardware we use. Also, given modern day technology you don't have to spend a fortune to get good sounding recordings (as oppossed to "shit sounding demos). I disagree completely. Technology has made it cheaper, but not better. Now people have the tools to do it themselves, but this doesn't make them an engineer. Recording professionally is a life long pursuit. You can't buy skill. A lot of artists' self recorded demos sound like total cock & balls compared to good legitimate releases, whereas good engineers did demos on adats 20 years ago that were absolutely amazing. I think the technology is making things worse. Instead of focusing on being a musician, more people are trying to make their own studio, and spend 10x as much as they would recording with competent professionals who do it everyday of their life, in a world class environment. They waste energy that could otherwise be used on sorting arrangements and playing on finding out what A/D converter is better or why you can't get more than 4 inputs via adat over SMUX...
Thaspian	Date: June 21, 2008 @ 7:54 PM " id="291378">..and what is with the stigma on people who seek to make a living solely on their music? Does this stem from jealousy from people who have have day jobs to support themselves? Is it just some "fuck whitey" thing, aka all people who ask for money for services/goods are bad? I'm genuinely curious.
Thaspian	Date: June 21, 2008 @ 7:54 PM ...it's 2008. why can't I edit posts on a forum?
leedsquietman	Date: June 22, 2008 @ 3:13 AM There's pros and cons for both sides of the argument - cheaper technology means more good songs are being heard but also more dross than ever is out there. There are a lot of us who have our own technology and the knowledge of how to use it. People like Gene Hilbert, Tim Sanders, Distilled, Multimike and NoSmoking have YEARS of experience of recording on analogue 4 tracks/8 tracks, ADAt as well as software. I myself have been recording on these formats since 1986, done courses, read a ton of books by experts in that field etc. And I have heard some very badly recorded and mixed/mastered material from people who invested in so called 'pro' recording studios too. My opinion (it;s just that, an opinion) is that a large % of digital hobbyist recordings are quite poor and that the majority of recording done in a studio, even a smaller studio, are usually very good. However, there are a good number of exceptions to the rule either way and I like noobs who really are willing to learn and improve their skills and techniques, learning how to fish rather than just buying fish. And yes, can we purleeze get edits on forum posts
SimonWaldram	Date: June 22, 2008 @ 5:08 AM On 21st Jun 2008, Thaspian said: ...and what is with the stigma on people who seek to make a living solely on their music? Does this stem from jealousy from people who have have day jobs to support themselves? Is it just some "fuck whitey" thing, aka all people who ask for money for services/goods are bad? I'm genuinely curious Was this directed at me? I'm quite baffled if it was. There is no stigma here whatsoever. I would absolutely love to make a living off of my music. My actual point was that people shouldn't criticises for selling our music because we already have to day jobs every day just to get the money for equipment etc. In regards to your other points, I think it should be taken into account that people have been recording music at home for many years now. Jandek, for one has been doing in since 1978. I'm not particulary into the technological side of it myself, and home recorded music has always had a special charm for me. I'll take Sebadoh's early albums (recorded in dorm rooms) over any of the crap Coldplay have recorded in expensive studios any day of the week. Can you name some artists whose music is bad because they've recorded it at home, because I don't happen to know any. People who would have been good in a posh studio don't suddenly become rubbish when they record on a multitrack recorder in their homes. If they are songwriters, then they are going to write songs regardless rather that get caught up in all the technological perplexities. I've recorded in a studio before and, frankly, it didn't sound any better (or worse - depending on your point of view) than a lot of stuff I've recorded at home.
zedsalt	Date: June 22, 2008 @ 5:43 AM I don't have anything to really contribute to the discussion right now. I'd just like to thank DMusic's own Justinother1 again for donating his time, expertise, use of his gear, etc. to so many musicians* for so many decades. *here at DM, that I can think of offhand: BIR, FMGraff, JD2theOG, ol' Jus' hisself, mystery-machine, sgtmay, yours truly...not sure if Farfor44 has actually recorded at Jus' place or not, but they're old and dear friends.
zedsalt	Date: June 22, 2008 @ 5:50 AM I see farfor44 is online right now, so I'll clarify: I was NOT saying, "They are old. And they are dear friends". Jus' is only a few years my senior, and I get mistaken for being older than ff44 all the time. And ff44 often gets mistaken for being much younger than he is; I get mistaken for being older than he really is. Dammit.
Opossum	Date: June 22, 2008 @ 6:55 PM On 21st Jun 2008, Thaspian said: ...it's 2008. why can't I edit posts on a forum? On 22nd Jun 2008, leedsquietman said: And yes, can we purleeze get edits on forum posts What they say!
GTOriginal	Date: June 25, 2008 @ 8:24 AM
Thaspian	Date: July 19, 2008 @ 7:57 PM On 22nd Jun 2008, SimonWaldram said: [QUOTE info=Thaspian,June 21, 2008 @ 7:54 PM]...and what is with the stigma on people who seek to make a living solely on their music? Does this stem from jealousy from people who have have day jobs to support themselves? Is it just some a lot of home recorded stuff sucks. 90% of what I listen to recorded at home pales in comparison to real studio recordings. musicians do stupid shit. they drench their voice in reverb, or have no idea how to make drums sound good.. but then again, who would? someone who does it for a living or someone with two SM57s and an mbox, who is a musician, not an engineer? I'm not discussing fake studios. there are tons of people running around ruining people's music. some musicians do it all and do it well, I know several. but more fail miserably. being a primary, or secondary sound transduction artist is a life pursuit. the sooner some people realize this, the sooner they become more productive in the path they choose, in my experience. modern home recording setups do not make everything as a whole cheaper. the price of mediocrity has dropped, but excellence is still as hard to achieve as it ever was.
Thaspian	Date: July 19, 2008 @ 7:57 PM wow the quote feature on this site sucks
Thaspian	Date: July 19, 2008 @ 7:57 PM ...and go figure, I can't edit.
SimonWaldram	Date: July 19, 2008 @ 11:52 PM I guess this is just a matter of taste and opinion. If "90% of what[you] listen to recorded at home pales in comparison to real studio recordings" to your ears, then that's fair enough. To me, that's not the case, and I have home-recordings by people that mean the world to me that could could not have been improved by being recorded in a fancy studio. Why? Because I love the sound of home recordings! I also maintain that the quality of someone's songwriting has nothing to do with who produces it or where. This isn't even a modern day issue: Would Leadbelly's songs have been better if he'd been able to record with a genius producer in a fancy studio? How about Woody Guthrie? Or Robert Johnson? A great song will always shine through, and sometimes if it has some rough-hewn authenticity it makes it all the better. You're right, anyone with a guitar, mic and some basic recording software can record and put it on the internet now...awesome! Tell you what, I'll got listen to those people, while you go listen to what you like. Deal?
zedsalt	Date: July 20, 2008 @ 3:28 AM Robert Johnson? What, with that fancy schmancy mic and studio tricks like corner loadin'? Naw, y'all want authenticity, check out the stuff Dru L. Bugget recorded using reverse wired Philco speakers for mics! I'm just joking around, but I am definitely of the "character over quality" set. So much of the music I've really enjoyed has been done "wrong" in so many ways. All of the engineers that I idolize are (in)famous for going about things in all of the "worst" ways. Of course, over the years, many of those rule-breaking methods have become The Rule.
Thaspian	Date: July 26, 2008 @ 10:32 AM you don't need a genius producer, or a fancy studio. you just need someone who knows what they are doing. a lot of artists are great writers, great musicians, and great people. but terrible recordists. is what I'm getting at. having someone else to handle that side isn't always a terrible idea, and it's becoming less and less available with the downfall of the record industry.
Thaspian	Date: July 26, 2008 @ 10:36 AM I also want to make sure that fancy equipment and good engineers are separate I know people who make better stuff in their kitchen than others do in studios, because he has the 30 years of experience in his own studio, in professional facilities. I wouldn't discount the help a professional brings to a lot of kinds of music. you can't record diana krall, or richard elliot in a basement.
Thaspian	Date: July 26, 2008 @ 10:37 AM god I fucking hate the lack of an edit feature. I don't get how having any sort of budget automatically equates to "huge fancy studio and big ego'd producer" that is so far off from how a lot of studios are now
SimonWaldram	Date: July 26, 2008 @ 11:31 PM I never said a "huge fancy studio and big ego'd producer" I said "a genius producer in a fancy studio" and I was refering to a specific artist (Leadbelly) when I said it. The point was that as his music was all about feeling and authenticity it would not have been improved upon had he recorded it "professionally" (as it were). Having said that, I agree with you that such approaches depend on the kind of music you are recording. Maybe recording Diana Krall and Richard Elliot in a basement wouldn't work...however if we did do this we could lock the basement and throw away the key halfway through the session - thereby never having to hear their terrible music again! Result!
Thaspian	Date: July 27, 2008 @ 11:33 AM are you kidding me?
SimonWaldram	Date: July 27, 2008 @ 12:17 PM Not at all
Thaspian	Date: August 1, 2008 @ 8:16 AM This is another thing that amazes me. Ignore what my page says, I have been a member of this site since mid 2002. Excluding spammers and rappers who hate each other, I have NEVER EVER SEEN NEGATIVE COMMENTS POSTED ON MUSIC! Not one thing. Not a single constructive criticism, or comment on anything that could possibly be improved. Whether on amazing stuff, or stuff where there was a lot of room for improvement. Yet, when it comes to non indie music, even very talented people get crapped on. The "indier-than-thou" nonsense is retarded. It can be good music even if the people involved make money off of it, from a "big" record label. I would bet 20 to 1 if diana krall's gee baby aint I good to you were posted here, and that she were an active member of the site, and not on a major label, people would go goo-goo over it. but since they're not, they get shit on, by you. what's the deal?
SimonWaldram	Date: August 1, 2008 @ 8:40 PM What's the deal? I was winding you up. It's true, I don't really like Diana Krall's music, but I have nothing really against it. However I knew that if I wrote what I did I'd get an over the top reaction from you and I thought that would be quite funny. Thanks for playing along
zedsalt	Date: August 2, 2008 @ 3:37 AM There seems to be a pretty even split between the folks who think that all we do in Song Comments is tear each other down with ridiculously vicious, baseless attacks and those people who think that the Comments feature is useless because we aren't hard enough on each other for the criticism to be constructive. Guess we know which camp you're in, eh, Thasp'? This must be an "issue" you've addressed before, because I already thought of you as one of the "Enough with the bootlicking!" folks. Not that it makes that much difference. The only thing that people of both mindsets appear to have in common is that they entertain a lot of absolutes, as in, "ALL of the comments are too ___________, and there's NO WAY ANYONE could really believe that they're not" I'll hop on another fence and ride- I've enjoyed Ms. Krall's music for years...so much so, in fact, that it has always amazed me that she has major label representation. There are, after all, exceptions to every rule.
Thaspian	Date: August 2, 2008 @ 3:11 PM I knew you were ragging me along, but I felt it had to be said, so I bit. I've noticed the trend on sites other than DM over the years as well, and I think it deserves discussion.
SimonWaldram	Date: August 3, 2008 @ 6:14 AM Well as I'm sure you know, it's already been discussed quite a lot without anything changing much. As far as I can tell, honest, intelligent people are going to leave honest and constructive comments, and people who don't think much or just want to suck up to artists so they can get praise back are going to write the less helpful stuff regardless of any percieved culture or overall attitute this place is considered to have. Like you said, it happens on other sites too. Someone in a really cool band from London told me the other day that he was quite tired of most music sites because he would take the time