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Democrat, Republican, Independent, Whatever

zedsalt	Date: July 14, 2005 @ 12:37 PM I have to agree with the Democrats that the issue regarding Karl Rove's despicable "outing" of an undercover CIA agent is far, far too important to be partisan, but to the best of my knowledge, they only sent this link http://www.democrats.org/page/petition/clean to recipients of their newsletter. If what Rove did doesn't rise to the status of high treason, what does? This was an attack of the worst sort on American ideals. Instead of getting a much-deserved fast track to the needle or the electric chair, there seems to be some question as to whether or not this will even cost him his job!!! I can't blame you if the idea of visiting democrats.org doesn't appeal to you. I mean, obviously, if you're serving the U.S. in some potentially dangerous capacity, disagreeing with the President can put you at much greater risk! But, please, one way or another, remind Mr. Rove and his employers that this is America, and we don't make targets of our agents just because their spouses take exception to being lied to.
AgentMGD	Date: July 14, 2005 @ 2:45 PM already signed a petition like that 2 days ago - Bush should also keep his promise(the one when he said that he would fire ANYONE who undermines national security or commits an act of treason within his administration) and fire Karl Rove. jmho
koiulpoi	Date: July 15, 2005 @ 2:30 AM I called my senators. They don't know what the hell's going on. Which pisses me off.
sinai	Date: July 15, 2005 @ 3:05 AM Democracy died in the 70s.
Alecs	Date: July 15, 2005 @ 8:49 AM WARNING: What I am about to say does not apply to all republicans. It is just something I have seen in the vast majority of conservatives. The thing that gets me burned about republicans is how the second you diss bush they assume you hate america and are a terrorist. This is the leader of our country! they say. Well, yes he is. But you are denying my right to free speech and therefore being a communist mother fucker. So much for our rights. As if the Patriot Act didn't breach enough of the constitution, now I'm having my rights impeded by everyday persons. God I hate the way this country has devolved!
AgentMGD	Date: July 16, 2005 @ 8:47 AM "The thing that gets me burned about republicans is how the second you diss bush they assume you hate america and are a terrorist." Being there and called that(a terrorist) - it seems if you don't have that damn yellow ribbon or American flag decal on your car people think you're either not supporting the troops or the president. One parent asked my daughter's school asked why I didn't display either of them - I simply replied "I don't because the president lied to you, me and everyone about why we are at 'war' in Iraq". First response out of her mouth was "oh, so you support the terrorists?" WT type of response is that? I have lived the military life all my life since '69 - my father has served during Vietnam, Desert Storm and now(when he should be retiring from the Army)he might be sent to Iraq soon. I do support the troops however I merely don't support the president for invading another nation based on lies and deceptions.
zedsalt	Date: July 16, 2005 @ 1:04 PM "Being there and called that(a terrorist) - it seems if you don't have that damn yellow ribbon or American flag decal on your car people think you're either not supporting the troops or the president." I'm glad you made the distinction between supporting the troops and supporting the President. All of my friends who have come back from Iraq, or are getting ready to go to/back to Iraq, seem to share my view: if you want to "support" me, don't change my job description to "target". The flag-waving thing is kind of a sore point with me, too. When I was in elementary school, they taught us that there were things you JUST DIDN'T DO with the flag. You didn't let it touch the ground. You didn't leave it hanging in the dark. You didn't toss it in the trash. And the ONLY clothing it's to be worn on is an official uniform! Wearing a little piece of American flag jewelry on your lapel is an open display of disrespect for the flag and what it stands for. True, W and company have shown their disregard for the ideals of this country in MUCH more insidious ways, but that just makes those little pins all the more annoying.
zedsalt	Date: July 16, 2005 @ 1:07 PM Two obvious points I'd be remiss to not include: Burning an American flag shows much more respect for it as a symbol than wearing it on your lapel does. God bless AgentMGD's father and keep him from harm.
koiulpoi	Date: July 17, 2005 @ 2:15 PM The easiest way to support the troops is to want them home. Personally, I'm all for demilitarization. By the way, speaking of Flags and Nationalism, take a read of these pages: http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
imemine	Date: July 17, 2005 @ 5:53 PM I represent the melon party and I approve this thread!
Alecs	Date: July 19, 2005 @ 8:38 AM Going on about what AgentMGD said, why do we really need ribbons and crap on our cars? Have you ever seen someone with a sand-colored ribbon on their bumper sticker that says "I Support The Terrorists"? NO! We're in America, everyone is supporting (or pretending to support) the troops. It's become more "I'm more Patriotic then you! Nanny Nanny Boo Boo!".
sinai	Date: July 19, 2005 @ 11:14 AM no shit man!! theres some cars now with a dozen of them fucking magnets on them, like their neighbor bought a couple after they did, and they just HAD to out patriotic him
kingo	Date: July 19, 2005 @ 3:04 PM " id="143498">
kingo	Date: July 19, 2005 @ 3:05 PM hot damn that worked well. http://www.antimagnet.com/
imemine	Date: July 19, 2005 @ 4:56 PM Perfect! PER-FECT!
koiulpoi	Date: July 20, 2005 @ 2:16 AM That site reminded me of monty python - "the people who have sacked the people doing the sacking of the people who were sacked have now been sacked."
mattbanx	Date: August 6, 2005 @ 7:23 AM I'm jerked both ways on the issues. It goes a little bit away from Rove, yet related. The Patriot act is much like a kind of an internment camp. I personally do not like the though of turning America in to a large Isaeli' bombing joint. There has to be some policy to ward that off. What Hitler was doing would not have been discovered if it had'nt been for internment camps. Be that hopefully their are not false suspects. But freedoms get sacrificed also. It is true that a lot of freedoms have seemed to have dwindled in the last 20 to 30 years. I have a feeling that there is a lot more playing in to this than the administration or any one group. And as a vice to control us.
zedsalt	Date: August 6, 2005 @ 12:42 PM Terrorism certainly makes a better rationale for getting the populace to surrender its freedoms than the "War on Drugs" does. The terrorist threat doesn't have that "bugbear" quality of being LESS harmful than the administrations that use it. Of course, I'm in agreement with Matt; it's useful to folks with a number of different ideologies. I just wish the manner in which our government is using it didn't fit so perfectly into the plans of OTHER extremists.
MCCUBED	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 3:25 AM I GOT AN IDEA. LET'S RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE.
zedsalt	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 11:58 AM Hell, yeah! There IS no democracy without dissent. If you're a citizen of a democracy, it's your duty to find some kind of fault with it, bitch and moan loud and long about it! And dissent is an essential element of the Judeo/Christian/Muslim tradition, too. Where argumentative discourse has departed, the faith isn't really ALIVE.
mattbanx	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 2:15 PM At least there is speech.
just2ska	Date: August 8, 2005 @ 1:40 PM KILLING IN THE NAME OF!
Alecs	Date: August 9, 2005 @ 10:03 AM Man I wanna be just like Bush when I grow up. First I'm gonna go to Yale riding on my parents' money, then I'm gonna go into politics. After I play the fear card to get into office, I'll immediately mess up everything I don't like (schools, the economy, etc). Then I'll take away some of our constitutionary rights by an unjust bill passed through the Senate in a time of extreme panic. You think I shouldn't? Well, you're a terrorist. Anybody I don't like is going to get their head blown off. Why? We're America, BITCH!
mattbanx	Date: August 9, 2005 @ 5:55 PM Hopfully when everything goes completely to hell, I could find some far off woods and dig a good unexcavated hole. Maybe I will find aliens and they will sail me away.
Alecs	Date: August 11, 2005 @ 11:27 AM I already have a contract with the aliens, actually. I provide them with a constant supply of beef jerky and Enya CD's, and they provide me with Disaster/Armageddon Insurance. I should be pretty safe until Enya retires, then my ass is toast.
hate9wicket	Date: September 1, 2005 @ 8:13 PM A little late to the table, I know, but in regards to comments made in respect to the Flag; I've only experienced someone burning the flag once, at a anti-death penalty rally. The flag never touched the ground, the boys doing the burning were almost reverant with it. I should say this rally was at an execution,with a counter pro-death rally across the way, separated by rope. The folks on the other side, though, seemed to think they had shown up at a rock concert. People were crowd surfing, getting drunk and taunting the hell out of us. When the word got out the prisioner was dead, you would have thought we just landed on the moon or won the World Series or something... When I see a sticker on a car, these are the people I think of.
LostYears	Date: September 1, 2005 @ 8:25 PM well those r the vocal assholes who believe that there way is the only way.... those are on both sides of the rope. i try to distance myself from preconceptions about demonstrators but it always seems like theres on sect that doesnt care about the issue and just want to yell at someone. i think that rather than protesting people should just sit down and discuss there grievances in small groups, u dont really need the numbers just convince someone of ur opinion in a civilized manner. and i think rove should die the same way that he put those cia agents in danger. its only an opinion but, he lives in a country where people can do almost anything... within bounds... and he puts people protecting it in danger.
zedsalt	Date: September 2, 2005 @ 12:27 PM It speaks volumes about the character of each group, doesn't it? I'm hesitant to be as verbal in my opposition to the death penalty, because, to be honest, I don't have a viable alternative to suggest. I mean, lifetime incarceration doesn't appear to be any more effective than capitol punishment as a deterrent. But I DO know that when I try to be perfectly objective, try to take my emotions out of the equation, what I'm left with are the statistics. And the statistics show a clear trend: the closer a community gets to an execution, the more publicity an execution gets, the higher the temporary spike in the local murder rate. As I said, I don't have a viable solution, but I think NOT promoting murder would be a good place to start in preventing murder. Whatever the current highest penalty is for High Treason, that's what Rove should get. Just my opinion. And while I agree with LY about the behavior of protesters, I'd have to argue with the notion of "small groups". I think that, even more than behavior, the head count is what...well..."counts". In a nearby community, they're struggling with tyrannical behavior by two of their three town council members (a married couple who have using their position to their financial advantage and to quell dissent by having people arrested who place signs in their windows and speak out at "public" meetings). I can't help but think that the fact that their detractors have compiled 234 signatures of registered voters on a petition against them (out of a total of 302 registered voters in the town) is going to weigh heavily against them...even here in Happy Hoosierland, where we have no mechanism in place for recall elections.
mattbanx	Date: September 2, 2005 @ 12:51 PM My thing with the death penalty. I don't know how they can claim not to be certain of guilt with all the hundreds upon thousands of known killers that have been sitting in their for years. There is obvious abuse with it. If it were up to me there would be some kind of equal justice so the slime in the system dies with who they are "certain" of instad of taking it out in the sixties. Hold it like the Nurimberg trials. But everyone's a victim or more wonderful. I would'nt want the killer to get a free pass. I want them to pass off this earth, regardless of their status. I can't say for petitions. All they need is some judge bought off to say no. I would like self governence without the threat of tyranny. But that probably could never happen. I would think people would just basically know. I guess the goverment is only as powerful as we depend on them.
mattbanx	Date: September 2, 2005 @ 3:06 PM Not to beat on it, because I know it does not matter. It took ass wipes in the system to disenfranchise the innocent citizens, along with those in the public that participated,to impair our basic laws. Money talks, whether it's health care or guilt or innocence in a Capital Murder case. I don't blame one party or another. I probably lean far more to the right here. But I try to in a sensible way. You can bet in a few months, you will hear more about Viagra than Katrina. And the ones pushing for that say the gal damn world is overpopulated already. I heard another one on a local talk show. An attorney trying to sell his profession like health insurance. ha,ha,ha,ha. I laugh because it's true. Well, they do assign them like welfare workers.
hate9wicket	Date: September 2, 2005 @ 9:14 PM Sorry, you were talking about Karl Rove, I think? Let's say, hypothetically of course, Valerie Plame 's buddies who are currently on undercover assignment are blown. Are they in danger, Yes. What are we going to do now? Does Karl know? Of course not. This is a guy Bush's dad fired twice, so W. should not have any loyalty to him at all. Why is Bush being so effusive in not dumping him? Because Joseph Wilson didn't roll over and be complicate and not report what he knew about that cake substance in Niger. W. is punishing Wilson by letting Rove reveal his wife's identity. In order for this Iraq war to actually be sold despite the shaky ground it stood on, everyone needed to be on the same page... Wilson wasn't, obviously Hans Blix wasn't. France, Germany, et al. can be painted as bad guys since their plutocrats didn't want to give up the cash cow the oil for food program provided...am I leaving anything out?
imemine	Date: September 2, 2005 @ 10:39 PM Mr. Bush, I urge you to call upon---“your base”! It’s not very funny after five days! your base
zedsalt	Date: September 3, 2005 @ 12:27 PM Death penalty reform during this administration probably isn't very likely. I mean, make your opinion known, inform people that they might make their own decisions, etc. but keep in mind: our President was the Governor that ordered all DNA evidence destroyed in Texas death row cases moments after such evidence became legally recognized. He made it very plain that he didn't care if thousands of innocents were put to death, because he considered it more important that everyone "have faith in the system". I'm sorry, W, but you expect us to have MORE faith as a result of the government sponsored slaughter of innocent people?!?

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