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Do you know what you believe?

mudshadow	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 7:06 AM ...and do you know why you believe it?
HenriRoger	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 7:31 AM Yes
kingo	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 8:06 AM Mostly. Partially. A little. No.
shutyatrap	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 8:07 AM I believe I don't know!
GeneHilbert	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 10:59 AM I thought I did, I think I do, I'm sure I must have, I don't remember, now I'm just confused......
Mojosnake	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 11:09 AM hey i resemble that remark... or i did a second ago... now i'm just
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 11:11 AM I believe in miracles Since you came along You sexy thing
BOWILLIE	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 11:19 AM I don't believe in superstars, Organic food and foreign cars. I don't believe the price of gold; The certainty of growing old. That right is right and left is wrong, That north and south can't get along. That east is east and west is west. And being first is always best. But I believe in love. I believe in babies. I believe in Mom and Dad. And I believe in you. Well, I don't believe that heaven waits, For only those who congregate. I like to think of God as love: He's down below, He's up above. He's watching people everywhere. He knows who does and doesn't care. And I'm an ordinary man, Sometimes I wonder who I am. But I believe in love. I believe in music. I believe in magic. And I believe in you. Well, I know with all my certainty, What's going on with you and me, Is a good thing. It's true, I believe in you. I don't believe virginity, Is as common as it used to be. In working days and sleeping nights, That black is black and white is white. That Superman and Robin Hood, Are still alive in Hollywood. That gasoline's in short supply, The rising cost of getting by. But I believe in love. I believe in old folks. I believe in children. I believe in you. But I believe in love. I believe in babies. I believe in Mom and Dad. And I believe in you.
moam	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 12:05 PM I believe in myself
Tattoomom	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 1:38 PM I believe in true love and soul mates and beautiful dreams...now...because of you...
GeneHilbert	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 1:44 PM Wow.........
celtaidd	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 1:52 PM I believe in the sound of one hand clapping
GeneHilbert	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 2:04 PM I believe there are some dumb-ass fuckers on this planet.
mudshadow	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 2:08 PM
Opossum	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 2:08 PM "If you believe in the power magic, I can change your mind, And if you need to believe in someone, Turn and look behind, When we were living in a dream world, Clouds got in the way, We gave it up in a moment of madness, And threw it all away... Dont answer me, dont break the silence, Dont let me win, Dont answer me, stay on your island Dont let me in..."
Opossum	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 2:09 PM On 24th Oct 2012, GeneHilbert said: I believe there are some dumb-ass fuckers on this planet. A war with a set of ball-bearings and lost?
Tattoomom	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 3:33 PM Would you believe that the hardest thing to fathom is why he would color his hair that sick sort of salmon color?
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 4:22 PM i don't think it matters much, from what i gather they died from septicaemia...
kingo	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 8:42 PM Doesn't anybody believe the children are the future anymore???
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: October 24, 2007 @ 10:24 PM Do I know what I believe and why? mostly no. the ever changing dynamic of life is hard to keep up with as you get older and more disabled physically and mentally.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 9:10 AM I believe I have the right to get high, drunk, wasted, obese & lost. Why do I believe so? It's my right to. I can believe whatever the hell I want to, last time I checked my brain belonged to me... What's left of it anyway.
zedsalt	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 10:34 AM I like the sound of that. I'm not "being a Baco"; I'm "exercising my rights"!
mudshadow	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 1:29 PM It's an interesting question to me because I think many musicians, songwriters and artists, as well as lovers of the arts, more often than not, have a spiritual awareness of some sort, or at the very least; a deeply, questioning mind. Just interested to know how different people feel about that.
NickSawyer	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 1:50 PM I believe in
GTOriginal	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 1:54 PM I believe that global warming is a GOOD thing. Screw the damn polar bears, gimme more
DeadraveN	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 1:57 PM a better question might be "Do you believe what you 'know'?" ... then again, maybe not...
mudshadow	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 2:11 PM On 25th Oct 2012, GTOriginal said: I believe that global warming is a GOOD thing. Screw the damn polar bears, gimme more no doubt... but more to the point, I guess, do you know what you believe about life, and reality, and the world and your place in (or out) of it. Is there a some kind of foundation (moral or otherwise) that guides you every moment of your day? A code of ethics? Political conviction? A personal truth, or maybe the quest thereof? Do you lean more towards the supernatural, or towards a more humanistic viewpoint? And then I guess I'd be curious how you arrived at your convictions (or the lack thereof). Was your personal belief system one that your parents shared, or the result of rebelling against that which was taught to you by them. Anything?
mudshadow	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 2:12 PM On 25th Oct 2012, DeadraveN said: a better question might be "Do you believe what you 'know'?" ... then again, maybe not...
NickSawyer	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 2:26 PM Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will. I sure could use a vacation from this Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of Freaks Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any fucking time. Any fucking day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Fret for your figure and Fret for your latte and Fret for your lawsuit and Fret for your hairpiece and Fret for your prozac and Fret for your pilot and Fret for your contract and Fret for your car. It's a Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of Freaks Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any fucking time. Any fucking day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay. Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still. Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits. Some say the end is near. Some say we'll see armageddon soon. I certainly hope we will cuz I sure could use a vacation from this Stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit... One great big festering neon distraction, I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Mom is going to fix it all soon, Mom is coming round to put it back the way it oughtta be... Learn to swim. Fuck L Ron Hubbard and Fuck all his clones. Fuck all these gun-toting Hip gangster wannabes. Learn to swim. Fuck retro anything. Fuck your tattoos. Fuck all you junkies and Fuck your short memory. Learn to swim. Fuck smiley glad-hands With hidden agendas. Fuck these dysfunctional, Insecure actresses. Learn to swim. Cuz I'm praying for rain And I'm praying for tidal waves I wanna see the ground give way. I wanna watch it all go down. Mom please flush it all away. I wanna see it go right in and down. I wanna watch it go right in. Watch you flush it all away. Time to bring it down again. Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines. I can't imagine why you wouldn't Welcome any change, my friend. I wanna see it all come down. suck it down. flush it down.
kingo	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 2:44 PM On 25th Oct 2012, billrhynes said: but more to the point, I guess, do you know what you believe about life, and reality, and the world and your place in (or out) of it. Is there a some kind of foundation (moral or otherwise) that guides you every moment of your day? A code of ethics? Political conviction? A personal truth, or maybe the quest thereof? Do you lean more towards the supernatural, or towards a more humanistic viewpoint? And then I guess I'd be curious how you arrived at your convictions (or the lack thereof). Was your personal belief system one that your parents shared, or the result of rebelling against that which was taught to you by them. Anything? So you're actually asking a serious question here??? Unbelievable. When will people ever learn. I "believe" what can be demonstrated. Maybe it's a humanistic point of view -- certainly not supernatural, as to me "supernatural" just means either "something we don't understand yet," or "probably bullshit." I think it came from my parents, in part, but only insomuch as they taught me to be rational and logical in searching for answers. I went further with that than they would've liked, possibly, but certainly not out of rebellion. As far as a moral foundation -- I like the concept of "do no harm." Not that I can always claim success at following that. And not that that's the ONLY moral precept I hold; it's just the easiest one to post in a forum thread.
FraDonaghy	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 7:22 PM I was raised catholic but eventually the weight of all the questions got too much and I started looking into it independently and decided it definitely wasn't for me. Right now, I would class myself as an atheist and I am very much humanist/scientific in my outlook on life. I see no reason why we need religion to be good people. I don't give much credit to anything supernatural - especially the likes of those shows on TV where they claim to talk to the dead and are really just exploiting people's grief for their own selfish reasons. Equally, reading the future and all that malarkey doesn't really seem possible to me. I do believe that sometimes people who have faith in supernatural predictive methods sometimes subconsciously make the predictions come true themselves - but only because blaming "fate" for their life is a lot easier to deal with than taking responsibility for it themselves. Many people tell me they see atheism as a rather depressing outlook on life, but I disagree. I believe we have one life, and we should make the most of it while we are here instead of looking towards the "next" life for redemption. That is life affirming, and not depressing at all.
moam	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 7:43 PM Well said, Fra
moam	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 7:43 PM Oh, and I agree with you 100%
HalloweenBat...	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 7:45 PM even if atheism is a depressing outlook on life that doesn't mean its wrong. just because your religion has a good ending doesnt mean its true it means u want it to be true in msot cases.
evansorchid	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 10:38 PM I believe the world's gone to hell in a handbasket and I'm a bologna sandwich. Then as the picnic begins, I begin to sink deeper and deeper inside myself until only a tiny flicker remains and begins to float about ten feet above the sewage drain that some jerk built next to the playground and empties into the stream that borders the.... ...Geez...I can't wait for the acid to calm down a bit.
Woof	Date: October 25, 2007 @ 11:48 PM This I believe in... I believe in death. I believe in disease. I believe in injustice and inhumanity, torture and anger and hate... I believe in murder. I believe in pain. I believe in cruelty and infidelity. I believe in slime and stink and every crawling, putrid thing... every possible ugliness and corruption, you son of a bitch. I believe... in you. William Peter Blatty; Exorcist III
farfor44	Date: October 26, 2007 @ 7:17 AM Call me cynical, but I believe that organized religious organizations have perpetrated a huge fraud on the whole of humanity in the name of faith.. Just have faith and you will believe in talking snakes,immaculate conception,and trees that bear the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. A God who created humankind just so he could destroy them later because of their sinful ways.. Don't get me wrong, I believe in God, but the God I perceive bears no resemblance to the malicious, jealous, vengeful,fearful God of legend mythology and religious text... The God I perceive is defined as kinetic energy which is constantly moving and flowing through all matter,time and space, including human consciousness..
Tattoomom	Date: October 26, 2007 @ 9:03 AM I think that you can find truth in every belief and non-belief system that exists in the world. No one person or group has it right, but if you are open to reality then you can find what's true for YOU anywhere you look.
K3VIN	Date: October 26, 2007 @ 12:24 PM On 26th Oct 2012, farfor44 said: Call me cynical, but I believe that organized religious organizations have perpetrated a huge fraud on the whole of humanity in the name of faith.. Just have faith and you will believe in talking snakes,immaculate conception,and trees that bear the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. A God who created humankind just so he could destroy them later because of their sinful ways.. Don't get me wrong, I believe in God, but the God I perceive bears no resemblance to the malicious, jealous, vengeful,fearful God of legend mythology and religious text... The God I perceive is defined as kinetic energy which is constantly moving and flowing through all matter,time and space, including human consciousness.. this is logical
zedsalt	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 11:01 AM I think "organized" is probably the most important word in ff44's post. The big problems seem to start when religious groups get their own real estate. Maybe we could force religions to be more...well...religious...by simply taking away the right for any building to be used on a regular basis for religious gatherings.
mudshadow	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 12:16 PM Saying that "organized religion perpetrates a fraud" on anyone, in my mind, suggests that people shouldn't assume resposibility for what they choose to believe. As far as I know nobody has been brutally forced to accept a faith-based belief system since the inquistion. There may be subtle forms of coercion to do the "acceptable" thing to fit in with a particular group, but that's certainly not limited to religion. In fact I see it happening just as much within "anti-religious" social classes. Zed made a perfect example: Out of fear of being controlled, we should control them first. Impose 'our' will upon them, because we're right, and they are wrong. That's a philosophy of weak-mindedness in my opinion, and a dangerous and self-defeating one at that.
GeneHilbert	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 1:48 PM Not all obviously, but most feel the need to belong. That sense of security being within a group provides. I have been much of a lone wolf through out my life, which has instilled personal accountability and self-reliance that are the keys for my personal view points and prosperity. The downside is that one has to do everything oneself…. Not an easy accomplishment; nor do I recommend it to all. However being the observer that I am, I do realize that being a part of a community offers many benefits. For one feels more relaxed and secure in groups of like minded people that share the work load and security of the unit. As well this is how mankind has survived to flourish and diversify. Religion is just such a bonding. If it were not such an efficient mechanism for collective growth and endurance; the practice would have been abandoned centuries ago.
mudshadow	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 2:15 PM Well said Gene. There will always be those who will exploit anything that people are attracted to. I think it's no secret that thru the ages, political powers around the world have used peoples' beliefs against them in an effort to keep them in line. I've always tended to go my own way too, but I do think that groups of like-minded people can do great things through collaboritive efforts, but there are always those who would rather damn the whole group for the actions of an irresposible few. I believe we often hold each other up to impossible standards, or at least to standards we cannot maintain ourselves, then after becoming disillusioned, we are embittered and choose to lash out with wide-sweeping blame unjustly.
farfor44	Date: October 27, 2007 @ 9:32 PM Just a few examples of those who were persecuted in the name of Religion.. Charles Darwin's "Origin of Species" immediately came under attack by prominent theologians, and intelligent design promoters who offered no scientific proof for their beliefs, but insist that all should think as they did.. I can't speak for others, but I cherish my freedom of thought, and base my conclusions on empirical evidence just like the great astronomer Copernicus, who was tortured and imprisoned for stating publicly his mathematical, and observational findings on astrological matters,, He had the gall to say "The earth is not flat,and definitely not the center of the Universe" When we observe these past battles between theology and science we can't help but notice, they are still continuing. Maybe with even more energy and passion in the present time. Religion(V) Science is basically what it boils down to ,or theology (v) technology.. Theologians seem to forget,theology has it's beginning in ancient Greece, yet the ancient Greek religion is called Mythology by Christian theologians, even though the two religions are similar, especially when it comes to the creation story... My words are not intended to offend anyone,but to point out some relevant facts.. Firstly,the Christian Holy Bible is three quarters Judaism.. Look for yourself it's obvious..Secondly,the Hebrew creation story in Genesis is just a concocted story. My proof is in this fact,the Hebrew civilization is not the oldest of the Ancient civilizations. The older civilizations had their own creation stories...I'm just saying we should believe logical truths not fictional ones.
kingo	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 2:15 AM On 27th Oct 2012, billrhynes said: As far as I know nobody has been brutally forced to accept a faith-based belief system since the inquistion. Uhm. Apostasy is a capital offense in many countries operating under Sharia law, including: Nigeria, Yemen, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc. This means it is illegal to convert from Islam in those places, and breaking that law is punishable by death.
GeneHilbert	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 3:07 AM Let me just state that science does not answer the fundamental question. How life began...... It theorizes but offers no proof. As well, the scientific community is also guilty of being prejudicial and ridiculing those that challenge and question conclusions base on their predilection of secular determinations and lack of evidence to support said theories. This is hardly taking the high road in the debate or being as open minded as they would like one to assume they are. Also, let me state that science offers no comfort or faith in man to do the right thing. It offers no guidance, it offers no morals. It lacks conscience, and offers no condolences, sympathy, empathy, or forgiveness, and it does not punish those that willfully kill, rape, plunder, steal or conspire for their own benefit………. To this I offer - Choose your God wisely........
DaveWL	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 6:34 AM If you drop your pen on the floor and leave it there for a million years you don’t expect it to grow legs and walk off. Yet this is what happens in nature. Evolution in itself is a miracle and does not disapprove that there is not a almighty force behind every thing. It could be just one tool used by the chief engineer. Either you believe nothing is a miracle or everything is. If the theory that god created everything seems unlikely then the alternative that a few elements fell in place in such a way that it created an incredible amazing complex living breathing conscious universe seems even more implausible.Look around you, is this all coincidence? Religion has nothing to do with spirituality for me it seems to be about following the crowd. Discover your own truth.
mudshadow	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 9:38 AM On 28th Oct 2012, kingo said: [QUOTE info=billrhynes,October 27, 2007 @ 12:16 PM] As far as I know nobody has been brutally forced to accept a faith-based belief system since the inquistion. O.k. Globally, sure. I irresponibly neglected to state "(here in our continent)nobody has been brutally forced to accept a faith-based belief system since the inquistion." I apologize. I was speaking from an American standpoint. (I do that all the time). Then again, I don't apologize. Uhm. Apostasy is a capital offense in many countries operating under Sharia law, including: Nigeria, Yemen, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc. This means it is illegal to convert from Islam in those places, and breaking that law is punishable by death. [/QUOTE]
mudshadow	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 9:39 AM well, I apologize for the sloppy post
mudshadow	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 10:10 AM On 27th Oct 2012, farfor44 said: Just a few examples of those who were persecuted in the name of Religion.. Charles Darwin's "Origin of Species" immediately came under attack by prominent theologians, and intelligent design promoters who offered no scientific proof for their beliefs, but insist that all should think as they did.. I can't speak for others, but I cherish my freedom of thought, and base my conclusions on empirical evidence just like the great astronomer Copernicus, who was tortured and imprisoned for stating publicly his mathematical, and observational findings on astrological matters,, He had the gall to say "The earth is not flat,and definitely not the center of the Universe" When we observe these past battles between theology and science we can't help but notice, they are still continuing. Maybe with even more energy and passion in the present time. Religion(V) Science is basically what it boils down to ,or theology (v) technology.. Theologians seem to forget,theology has it's beginning in ancient Greece, yet the ancient Greek religion is called Mythology by Christian theologians, even though the two religions are similar, especially when it comes to the creation story... My words are not intended to offend anyone,but to point out some relevant facts.. Firstly,the Christian Holy Bible is three quarters Judaism.. Look for yourself it's obvious..Secondly,the Hebrew creation story in Genesis is just a concocted story. My proof is in this fact,the Hebrew civilization is not the oldest of the Ancient civilizations. The older civilizations had their own creation stories...I'm just saying we should believe logical truths not fictional ones. There are untold numbers of people persecuted for all manner of things. Seems to me that the constant of ignorance is persecution itself. "The Christian Holy Bible is three quarters Judaism..." -true, but what does that mean though, what's your point? I agree we should hold fast to logical truths, but we shouldn't persecute in the name of them (and persecution happens on many levels ) just as Cristians and Muslims and everyone else shouldn't persecute and kill in the name of their own faiths. I don't mean to offend either, I am enjoying the conversation. My point is not to prove anything but that we can engage in an exchange of ideas without killing each other and maybe not even hating each other or feeling superior to one another. The fact that we can break everything down to an atomic level doesn't explain everything. I'm pretty sure we will continue to go beyond that level just as we will continue to venture light-years outward. The interesting thing to me, is, the further in Science looks and the further out science looks, the more and more it keeps finding. Maybe we are staring infinity in the face every waking moment. We don't seem to be happy unless we can render everything in the universe predictable, mathematical and boring and controllable, not that that makes us any happier.
farfor44	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 11:02 AM Well said Kingo and Dave..One can't think of evolution without bringing time into the equation.If you place a lump of coal miles below the surface of the earth for millions of years it will evolve into a diamond,some will say thats a process,and not proof of evolution..Well Life is a process,we're not born with intelligence we expand our understanding by asking the question why,and by testing our conclusions by using logical reasoning,both inductive,and deductive..My point is,there is positive proof to support the big bang theory..We know for a fact that the Universe is expanding constantly So when we reverse that by using the psychological time factor we discover a huge ball of energy just ready to explode and create the Universe that we know today..By the same process we know human consciousness is expanding.. I dont think I've suggested ever that we should not allow Religious organizations to own property and push their beliefs on others I've only suggested we use logic when forming our conclusions as individual beings...No one can say with any degree of certainty how life began,whether we believe GOD formed Man from the soil of the Earth then breathed life into his being or otherwise..When we ponder human behavior,I find it to be just like gravity..What goes up must come down,what we do to others will be done to us.simple physics!! I'm not trying to slam anyone here, I'm simply answering the question~ what do you believe and why do you believe it???Enough said~for now
kingo	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 11:10 AM On 28th Oct 2012, GeneHilbert said: Let me just state that science does not answer the fundamental question. How life began...... It theorizes but offers no proof. As well, the scientific community is also guilty of being prejudicial and ridiculing those that challenge and question conclusions base on their predilection of secular determinations and lack of evidence to support said theories. This is hardly taking the high road in the debate or being as open minded as they would like one to assume they are. This is a little off. First, science and religion work in opposite ways, whether you want to believe or acknowledge that or not. Faith dictates that a person accept something as true DESPITE evidence, or despite a lack of evidence. Faith means starting from a conclusion and working backwards. Science dictates working from evidence up. Things are not accepted without proof; this is entirely counter to scientific reason. The idea of "predilection for secular theories" doesn't make any sense to me. Could you be more specific? There is very definitely in science a predilection toward accepting things for which there is evidence, so if what you're terming "secular" is describing things that are demonstrable through evidence as opposed to something "non-secular" which must include things for which there is no evidence then I'd have to agree. But again, science doesn't work from conclusions backward in the same sense that faith does. On 28th Oct 2012, GeneHilbert said: Also, let me state that science offers no comfort or faith in man to do the right thing. It offers no guidance, it offers no morals. It lacks conscience, and offers no condolences, sympathy, empathy, or forgiveness, and it does not punish those that willfully kill, rape, plunder, steal or conspire for their own benefit………. To this I offer - Choose your God wisely........ Whether science "offers" those things is irrelevant. And the fact that you've used the the phrase "choose your God..." is pretty telling. If you're going to be choosing a god to believe in in order to find a set of morals to hold to, why not skip the middle man and choose the morals? After all, you wouldn't knowingly choose a God, or a religion, whose moral precepts contradict your own. You certainly don't follow the moral code presented in the Christian bible without your own moral filter on top of your selection. I assume you don't stone adulterers, for just one example. There is a moral center within humans that does not require fear of eternal damnation to make right. If by this phrase you're equating science with a god, as if people arguing for reason are somehow arguing blind acceptance of something the way religion offers blind belief in things for which there is no evidence, then you're off base quite a bit.
zedsalt	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 11:15 AM Wow. I never gave a moment's thought to the idea that someone might take my gag about FORCING "religions to be more...well...religious" seriously. So, that sounds like "me"? Really? This isn't a dig at Bill or anyone else...well, except myself for my lack of sensitivity. For the record: while I am sure that draconian measures like forbidding religious groups from owning property and capital punishment for jaywalkers would be effective, I don't actually endorse them as workable solutions.
zedsalt	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 11:20 AM Oh, and you know, Darwin DID believe in a Christian-model God the Creator, just not a literal interpretation of the Creation Story from the Bible. He said as much in "The Origin of Man". He didn't see any reason for conflict between science and religion, and I tend to agree. Science gives us information regarding lots of "how"s and "what"s; religion tells us the "who"s and "why"s.
kingo	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 11:37 AM First, science can offer "why"s; so both things are offering that. Second, many things offer the same kind of "who"s and "why"s as does religion. Philosophy. Fiction. Daydreaming. Wishing. But for some reason we are supposed to offer a different sort of respect to the answers made up and called religion than to those answers made up and called fiction, or daydreaming, or wishing. And if that "made up" part offends, just assume I'm talking about all of the OTHER religions that aren't yours.
mudshadow	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 7:25 PM Well, the question wasn't exactly "what do you believe...?" actually, it was "Do you know what you beleive...? A small point, but the actual question was geared to produce more of a "yes or no" answer (bravo Henri Roger) but as I suspected (and anticipated) it became much more than that... Hey Zed...no "dig" taken at all my friend I think we both made salient points. So far what I've heard, aside from the obligatory sarcasm from the peanut gallery (which I admittedly AM a card carrying member of...) most of all is solid argument towards logic and practicality. I don't think anyone discounts science and it's hard-earned solid, factual value, but does it all come down to theology vs science? When I looked up a definition for theology I got this: the·ol·o·gy Pronunciation-[thee-ol-uh-jee] –noun, plural -gies. 1. the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity. 2. a particular form, system, branch, or course of this study. I know that the word "God" can be a generic term but I also am aware that there are belief systems that aren't completely reliant on scientific principles and also are not based upon a "God" concept of any kind. At least not as defined by the above means... There are many similarities and recurring themes within vastly different religions which seems to indicate universal concepts dealing with human behaviour and spiritual concepts, and maybe that means that science is the answer. Maybe all we are is matter that is subjective to the principles of cause and effect, and that's all that there is to us...
kingo	Date: October 28, 2007 @ 8:25 PM On 28th Oct 2012, billrhynes said: Maybe all we are is matter that is subjective to the principles of cause and effect, and that's all that there is to us... You say that like it's a bad thing.
zedsalt	Date: October 29, 2007 @ 11:04 AM I've always been more of a theosopher than a theologian, all the way back to when I was nine and...given the choice of whether or not to continue attending a UMC church...I chose to be rebaptized then never return, except for weddings, funerals, baptisms, and charity events. My core beliefs tend to be shaped almost entirely by instinct, with just a little bit of consideration to those ideas and ideals which seem to be universal among the major faiths. That's why my childhood fling with Atheism just didn't stick. Atheism looked cool, but it clashed with my unshakable gut-level belief and, less importantly, with both logic and the universality of certain ideas.
kingo	Date: October 29, 2007 @ 11:20 AM There's no way it conflicts with logic that I can find, unless you're talking about hard, as opposed to soft, atheism. And I'd be interested in knowing about the universality of certain ideas you're talking about.
farfor44	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 12:27 AM In response to Bill's question about my statement"The Christian holy bible is three quarters Judaism" Whats my point? My point is,this one thing brings so many questions to mind that cant be ignored...The biggest question being~Why would Christianity and Judaism be joined in any way?? Christianity was not born out of Judaism,it was born in opposition to Judaism!! Christ did refer to the Rabbis of Judaism as liars and hypocrites,and they did conspire against him to have him crucified like a common criminal.. So to me the words Judao~Christian do not go together,and neither does Christian~Science or War on Terror. To me they are all Oxymorons This has been an honest discussion about some serious things,and its very enjoyable to read others thoughts on this topic
Tattoomom	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 10:28 AM Yeah! Way to get the party started, Bill.
zedsalt	Date: October 30, 2007 @ 11:17 AM Christianity obviously isn't too awfully opposed to the Torah. And as you're well aware, "Christ" wasn't Jesus' surname; it's the title of a figure foretold in Jewish prophesy. So, I don't have a problem with the term "JudeoChristian"...except...Mohammed was said to have been approached by the Archangel Gabriel, the Angel of the Annunciation of the Virgin Birth of Jesus (man, that's a lot of capital letters!), and taken up to be counseled by, among others, the Jesus of Jewish prophesy and his mother, Mary. So, I don't havea problem with other people using the term "JudeoChristian", but I'm always careful to use the names of all the Abrahamic faiths when speaking of the JudeoChristianMuslim tradition. Well, y'know, that or "Abrahamic".
mudshadow	Date: November 3, 2007 @ 11:28 PM So far, honestly...the most intriguing fact (to me)of this converestaion is that it has MOSTLY been made up of male perspectives. Ladies?
mudshadow	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:06 AM On 29th Oct 2012, kingo said: There's no way it conflicts with logic that I can find, unless you're talking about hard, as opposed to soft, atheism. And I'd be interested in knowing about the universality of certain ideas you're talking about. I'm pretty sure, if you provide me with a theoligical precept, (new testament ot otherwise) it can be rendered into another way of speaking.
mudshadow	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:10 AM On 29th Oct 2012, kingo said: There's no way it conflicts with logic that I can find, unless you're talking about hard, as opposed to soft, atheism. And I'd be interested in knowing about the universality of certain ideas you're talking about. I'm pretty sure, if you provide me with a theoligical precept, (new testament ot otherwise) it can be rendered into another way of speaking.
mudshadow	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:12 AM That's TWICE tonite I made a double post, but it wasn't my doing. C'mon Dmusic...gimme a break.
Israfel	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:19 AM Okay... well, I believe that people are basically good even those that present themselves as assholes or do something society deems as wrong. There is always a reason for that and it's usually the facade people create for themselves as a survival mechanism. I believe that you can be spiritual without buying into a religious ideation. There is much we can explain away by scientific means but I believe even with that scientific mumbo jumbo human beings have the ablibilty to feel and sense things that go beyond explanation. I believe that overall human beings as a species are the cruelest species in the world. We plunder and take as much as we want from anything we touch without thought or care as to the consequences. We torture and kill one another in the name of whatever it is we believe in without thinking that the victim of our actions is another human being. I believe that we have been so desenstized to each other that we can walk past the homeless, the mentally ill, ignore the plight of those in other countries who are experiencing the horrors of genocide and not think twice about it. I believe that we feel helpless in the face of world politics and beauracracy. I believe that we place blame too easily and don't take responsibility for our actions or eachother. I believe that the overall preoccupation with celebritism is just an excuse for our media and ourselves to not have to think about what's really going on in the world. I beleive that American's are seen as boorish, overbearing idiots who take, take, take and force others to see it our way or suffer the consquences. And, frankly, can you blame anyone for having that view of us? Yet, I believe that given the chance and pointed in the right direction, we would all do the right thing. I believe that we all want to take care of each other and the world but we feel small and helpless to do so. I believe that even one person can make a difference if that difference is only to education one more person.
Israfel	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:20 AM and I believe I cannot spell...
farfor44	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 12:59 PM I'd like to offer one or more reasons why I think there is a lack of female responses in this thread, and shout a BIG "that-a-girl" to Mary and Crystal for participating!! First off when discussing reglicions..the female princple is generally omitted in the patriarchal type of religions. Since Rome conquered the Athenians and burned the Parthanon, containing the statue of Athena- "the goddess of wisdom".. which put a stop to the Matriarchal side of relligion once again. That would be threating to me if I were a female! Philosophy is also a male dominated thing, even though the word philosophy comes from two Greek words Philo-sophia, which means "love of wisdom"...I'ts obvious Sophia the female was very wise indeed! I believe the female's prospective is as important as the male's prosective. after all it takes two to tango.. Which is more important the egg or the sperm? They are equal in the creation of life! I believe the words knowledge and wisdom can (if we let them) become ego connected. The word understanding is not ego connected.So please women, let us know your thoughts on this subject!
HenriRoger	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 1:15 PM "Woman is the future of man " Louis Aragon .
ShadowMom	Date: November 4, 2007 @ 3:56 PM On 3rd Nov 2012, billrhynes said: So far, honestly...the most intriguing fact (to me)of this converestaion is that it has MOSTLY been made up of male perspectives. Ladies? Yes, I do know what I believe and I do know why. I've always been an observer, and most of my beliefs are based on what I have observed. And belief is a funny thing-- if you believe in God, and tell me ten reasons why, and I dispute all ten in a logical way, you will most likely still believe in God, simply because you believe. Philosophical arguments can be interesting, but too many times they get bogged down in "by this, did you mean that" -- and "historically.. " -- and such. If I said that my car was red, but you didn't believe me, I could prove it to you. But if I say there is a heaven, there's no way to prove it. So these arguments tend to be -- apples and oranges. And cough women have other things to do. We KNOW we're right. It's just a matter of getting you to see things from our viewpoint. Oh, see? We probably won't shut up now. And I also believe, Bill, that if you stop refreshing the page, you won't have so many double posts.
Woof	Date: November 5, 2007 @ 12:24 AM I believe I need to go to bed. I'm tired.

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