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MIDI sucks

evansorchid	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 1:11 AM MIDI..... What good is it.....What good is it? I still consider myself a novice at this digital music stuff, but I manage to get by with basically manipulating digital audio from direct sources like a guitar or microphone. Today, I spent 6 hours trying to hook up a MIDI keyboard. I finally was able to get a sound out of it after about an hour. And I managed to record a keyboard part to a song that I am working on. I actually thought that I was doing pretty good. I finally got to the part where I was going to mix it all down to a mp3 and maybe even post it here, when I discovered during playback that the keyboard part didn't get laid down on the mixdown. Everything else was there???? Hmmmmmm, I thought. Well, after resorting to actually opening and reading the Cakewalk manual I have to assist me with issues like this....I discovered that all MIDI tracks MUST be separately CONVERTED to DIGITAL AUDIO to complete a mixdown!!!!!! What the hell!!!!!! I'm going to go to bed before my brain explodes.
GeneHilbert	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 1:21 AM LOL..... Yeah it's just data...... you have to record it to audio first......
BlackMage	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 1:28 AM Midi is just data. Midi keyboard is just a controller. It doesn't create sound. It controls it.
Bam	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 1:29 AM Which is a good thing.
psypig	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 5:10 AM So basically MIDI = awesome. (when you've got your head round it) (full marks for reading the manual. when the revolution comes, i'll protect you.)
evansorchid	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 12:38 PM Okay, now before I go back and tackle this issue tonight, can anyone answer a question??? I'm basically 'pingponging' the midi recording track in the same work file to another track. I tried this a couple of times last night and I didn't get it right. What do I select as a 'source' and 'port' for the new track. I understand that I must mute all the other tracks, then basically record the midi track to a digital audio track. But, everytime I did it I would end up with a blank track. I think I must have missed something. I appreciate any help.
GeneHilbert	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 12:45 PM Well... watch your input record meters - on input, no signal, no record. It is hard to trouble shoot when we have no idea what you're using, how it is patched or configured.
GeneHilbert	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 12:52 PM You can solo midi and the armed record trac - as opposed to muting everything else. Pick a routing input (mono/stereo) and an output (I mute the output and monitor input) watch your input record meters - on input, no signal, no record.
Alstroph	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 1:21 PM Are you on a PC or a Mac?
shadowself	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 2:13 PM Which version of CW?
evansorchid	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 2:45 PM Wow....Thanks for all the help. CW Pro audio 9. OS - WindowsXP You are right about the signal Gene. I could hear it, but I wasn't getting a level on the record meter. The keyboard is hooked up directly to the MIDI IN on the soundcard. But the keyboard isn't an issue. Converting the MIDI data that I've already created into a digital audio track so that I can download it onto an mp3, is where I'm at. I think that part of my confusion is because I just installed a new M-Audio soundcard and I might not have all the little boxes checked correctly on either CW or the soundcard software. I haven't had any problems with anything else, just configuring the MIDI has my panties in a wad.
GeneHilbert	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 3:56 PM What is producing your tone generation? i.e. playing you Midi parts....? Anyway if Cake is open and playing the part - arming the record and recording - if you see meter activity you should be recording. Also - one thing about CW Audio 9 - is that it puts all files lumped together in a bulk folder and assigns them arbitrary names that has nothing to do with song title. For organizational and backup purposes - assign and different folder per song project as well as save at least one copy of each song as a bundle. Then if you loose tracks due to crash, power outage or for back up – they are all together and you'll know where they're located.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 8:33 PM Don't worry, stay with it, do a little at a time - it will add a new dimension to your music and give you greater flexiility (ie. recorded a midi part with brass, decide brass sucks in your arrangement, change to smooth ambient tone without having to rerecord the notes - oh yeah!) Copy the data and 'thicken the sound' with a different sound or variant (i.e. low choir sound and high choir sound merged together sounds like - one BIG choir w/o recording the part twice!!) (layering, great for strings, choirs etc) -'oh yeah!'. Plus a gazillion other uses. MIDI - cool. And you don't have to go overboard, it can be merged in nicely into a guitar arrangement, you hven't suddenly gone 'synthpop' and sold your soul to the devil by owning and using MIDI and synth sounds...Good Luck
mattbanx	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 11:25 PM I have just used wave for recording. But something like midi, cakewalk, or any of those controlled type of sound programs could only sound original where they were used in parts to a recording. That's why I am reluctant to use anything other than wave. It's that I don't want to lose my originality. I have a freeware called Audacity. It's a neat program with cool sounds. But it's all based on how a program sounds. Not how I sound. If you like just stricly playing your instruments, is wave all you need? Can my guitar still sound like my guitar using midi? I have no knowledge of music software other than what I have done with wave and audacity.
mattbanx	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 11:37 PM I know this is a keyboard forum, but there are midi ports for all kinds of instruments. I wonder how much midi alters the sound of instruments? That's what I like about wave. It is unaltered, like a taped recording almost. But not the hiss.
shadowself	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 11:39 PM MIDI is not sound, it's data that controls digital instruments.
Alstroph	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 11:46 PM Ah I didn't see that you were using CW How are those M-Audio cards? I've been thinking about getting one.
mattbanx	Date: February 9, 2006 @ 11:53 PM The souind on an old Victrola phonograph is controlling a sound for that matter. I would like to be directed to where someone can play an instrument through midi without it sounding electronic. What is the best program for not altering the sound (most realistic sounding), yet having the options? Maybe I should do a topic asking that.
shadowself	Date: February 10, 2006 @ 12:04 AM Picture MIDI like the rolls from a player piano. It has no sound of its own, but sends data to the instruments it controls. The sounds come from the instrument. You can't control a guitar with MIDI.
mattbanx	Date: February 10, 2006 @ 12:29 AM Thanks for informing me of that, shadowself. I want the realness in my instruments. I will just keep trying to attack sound improvements on the outside of my computer. Via Analog.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 11, 2006 @ 6:59 PM Midi doesn't suck - things like quantizing 1/16 or 1/8 of a beat and some midi effects make that sucky muzak effect, but all midi is is a recording of notes, velocity and parameter changes (like aftertouch, sysex etc). Saying midi sucks is not complete. It is just a tool that syncs devices together and enables notes, velocity and certain parameters to be recorded. Blame the bad sounds on bad players, poor choice of tones/sounds and robotization of music by applying ridiculous amounts of harsh quantizing which takes natural feel and robotizes it all on beat. A good player implements MIDI to convey emotions, aftertouch, expression and makes those beautiful recordings we all aspire to. And remember, MIDI offers a lot more than CV/GATE it's predecssor used on many bland synth-pop recordings from the late 70's - early 80's.
shadowself	Date: March 11, 2006 @ 8:37 PM Oh, and Matt - MIDI can control analogue too. In school we had a MIDI-to-CV (control voltage) adapter that let us control the ARP 2600 (an analogue synth) with a MIDI track on Logic Audio. It was WAY cool. MIDI does not suck.
imemine	Date: March 11, 2006 @ 8:38 PM All things that I don't understand suck!
shadowself	Date: March 11, 2006 @ 9:50 PM E=mc2 sucks.
zedsalt	Date: March 12, 2006 @ 10:46 AM The ARP 2600 was the synth used for Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein", which doesn't suck.
aflunky	Date: March 12, 2006 @ 12:29 PM Hmm, IDK, I'm fine with my midi stuff. I AM using Acid Pro BTW (hint hint)
PrincessTast...	Date: March 12, 2006 @ 7:10 PM MIDI doesn't suck, Flying Apparatus composed a lot of their techno/jazz pieces that way! "An Error in the Garden of the Doppleganger" foe example...
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 13, 2006 @ 10:30 AM "Picture MIDI like the rolls from a player piano. It has no sound of its own, but sends data to the instruments it controls. The sounds come from the instrument. You can't control a guitar with MIDI." You can use a guitar to control a MIDI sound device though, Roland (GR series etc) & Casio were big on trying to get MIDI guitar off the ground in the mid - late 80's, you used a regular guitar with a special MIDI adaptor device to play keyboard sounds on a tone module using guitar- it was a neat gimmick, being able to play a keyboard's trumpet sounds etc. with a guitar with whammy bar bends and hammer-ons and pulls etc. The only drawback was that it often could not handle anything like a fretboard slide that was too erratic, too much whammy bar or even a lot of fast bass notes (for some reason the bottom E string seemed to have some bad latency problems). Not something you see or hear much of these days but still available... http://www.zzounds.com/cat--MIDI-Guitar-Gear--2615
100thmonk	Date: March 15, 2006 @ 9:28 PM i think maybe gene has hit the nail on the head.. by the sounds of it you need to connect your midi track to a sound generating device(i.e an external synth, an internal synth on your sondcard or maybe a vst or directx plugin of some kind.) if your using an external synth to produce the sound then you will have to patch the audio output of your keyboard into your your soundcard and then connect an audio track to your sound card in the standard way so you can capture the audio from your keyboard(this also means that your midi output from your computer will need to be patched to the keyboards midi input to control your keyboard) good luck
imemine	Date: April 1, 2006 @ 10:47 AM I find midi to be quite a solid drummer that never misses a beat unless I ask him to. In addition, he never drinks all of my beer, hits on my woman or throws drums sticks at me when I’m singing.
egac	Date: April 1, 2006 @ 8:17 PM who is midi?
GeneHilbert	Date: April 1, 2006 @ 10:49 PM just a pinch between cheek and gum....
Elu	Date: May 15, 2006 @ 11:33 AM I use midi extensively in all my songs. Besides getting over the initial set up and learning about it....it has become my best friend. It does everything I ask of it provided I know how to ask. The only time constraint on it is the fact that it needs to be dropped to an audio file afterwards...However, if you use a soft synth you can just jump the track...in Sonar anyway and voila you have a wave file.
Mentalfunk	Date: August 23, 2006 @ 3:07 PM ....that's kinda like why the dinos are extinct...
zedsalt	Date: August 24, 2006 @ 11:42 AM MIDI began to suck when a huge asteroid hit Earth.
GreatGooglyM...	Date: August 25, 2006 @ 8:47 AM The title cracked me up.
southwing	Date: September 2, 2006 @ 2:20 PM I took Midi Farady out twice, once to the movies, and once just to see if she what would happen, and I can atest. Midi does not suck!
plungerboy	Date: September 9, 2006 @ 6:42 AM I just started using midi, and i didnt struggle at all. But then all my hardware is Roland. Maybe that makes a difference.
Opossum	Date: September 9, 2006 @ 6:55 AM Roland rules!
evansorchid	Date: February 23, 2007 @ 2:19 PM Wow, It's been over a year since I posted this....and MIDI still sucks.
imemine	Date: February 23, 2007 @ 2:20 PM On 11th Mar 2009, imemine said: All things that I don't understand suck!
imemine	Date: February 23, 2007 @ 2:22 PM I must have a time machine, it says that I posted that On 11th Mar 2007! I am one bad ass MF'er!
shadowself	Date: February 23, 2007 @ 4:19 PM Guitar picks suck. I listened to one all day yesterday and it sounded liks ass. Thin, quiet, plastic sound. No variety at all, didn't even sound natural. Don't even get me started on my crappy sounding capo.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 24, 2007 @ 4:24 AM audio mixdown in cubase) from the midi source if it's a vsti and import the audio file, if you want to hear it in the final .wav / .aiff mixdown (it still plays fine within the DAW) In the case you have the MIDI data going back out to a hardware synth then want to record the audio sounds, you set up an audio track to record from the audio out jacks. In Cubase it's the first thing written in the manual and it's the first sticky note on cubase.net but still dozens of people each day have the same problem that the poster was having. Ableton Live is cool because it automatically outputs audio from MIDI vsts into the master mix track with it's cool routing, hence you don't have to export to an audio file and reimport but this is not the norm...
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: February 24, 2007 @ 4:26 AM the first line should have read you need to export audio mixdown by soloing the midi track (as in SOnar and most linear DAWS)
RicardoMonte...	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 2:11 AM i dont know what anyone here said
St-Fu	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 2:29 AM On 26th Apr 2009, derykk88 said: i dont know what anyone here said wise man say, "troll! go away!" http://www.myspace.com/deryk88 http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474254 http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=derykk88
RicardoMonte...	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 3:24 AM I've already defended myself, quite awesomely I should add. http://www.dmusic.com/forum/general/26544
NickSawyer	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 9:56 AM DIE MIDI does not suck Burn in hell Kill MidiHaters We will destroy you
EvalLin	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 12:54 PM Sometimes the sounds can suck, but midi itself does not.
Thaspian	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 1:41 PM Midi computer generated crap aint music!
Thaspian	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 1:41 PM DM left out my tag, that looked like at the end
Thaspian	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 1:41 PM ..and it left it out again. back to hiding I suppose.
theblacklodge	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 2:07 PM Computer generated crap ain't no good for nobody's ears! I keep hitting them buttons and what I hear, I tell you, is BULLSHIT!
NickSawyer	Date: April 26, 2007 @ 10:06 PM what about soundfonts
Alwex	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 9:42 AM i do Not like the sound of MIDI. i really cant stand it
shadowself	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 9:48 AM
shadowself	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 9:54 AM Saying you listen to MIDI is like saying you listen to a violin bow, or a guitar pick, or a player piano paper roll, or a drumstick.
zedsalt	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 10:25 AM I thought a violin bow was speaking to me once, but then someone took it out of the room, and the voice persisted...
NickSawyer	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 11:27 AM GM sucks. MIDI does not suck.
ChillinBuzz	Date: April 27, 2007 @ 5:00 PM MIDI played back sounds like the high pitch noise of those fast loader games you got on a Spectrum
Alwex	Date: April 28, 2007 @ 9:46 AM Well shadowself you know what i mean, those tones that comes out of the speaker when i play a midi files, annoys me..better?
shadowself	Date: April 28, 2007 @ 10:58 AM Regardless, you still seem to be under the impression that MIDI sounds like something. Sure, if you are playing a badly sequenced MIDI file that is powering a craptastic tone generator that is built into the soundcard, your MIDI sequences are going to sound generally like ass. However, this is not the sound of MIDI (as it has no sound), it's the sound of a crappy synth on a soundcard being controlled by a MIDI sequence. Now, if you're using a program like Reason or some high-end VSTs, you can have MIDI controlling some deadly sounds. BFD, for instance, is so close to a real drumkit that it's difficult to tell the difference. A poor player or bad effects/amps can make a guitar sound like garbage too, but that does not automatically mean that guitars sound like garbage in general.

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