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Q and A section.. an idea.

Expose	Date: August 6, 2003 @ 11:32 PM Ok... here's an idea for a Q and A thread. Someone asks a question about Linux and a penguin-oriented DMer will try to answer it.
sinai	Date: August 6, 2003 @ 11:43 PM alright then, for starters...what the hell is it?
Expose	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 12:02 AM A free(ferreal) OS, meant as an alternative to windows, that DOESN'T suck.
pog	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 12:49 AM Just to elaborate a little, The main differences are windows is all in binary (a form of machine code that basically makes it harder to reverse engineer/hack the programs.), whereas linux program instructions are carried out in text form, which means with a little (or a lot of) knowledge a user can adjust/reprogram any application they want to suit their needs/system. Some differences between the systems include the following. Windows systems are designed for the complete lamer to be able to use on any system in any situation. In my opinion, this is a huge task, and lets face it... they get by. Linux is a little harder to set up, as it will probably start firing question at you about your hardware on installing.... and usually, you find that although the distributions are free, they are also about 6 months behind the windows releases. This is because enthusiasts are writing the code, not the companies that are making the software/games. Linux packages are smaller, as they're not full of bloatware and protection. All you need to download is the program without the binary installer incorperated into it. (The installation program that builds it for your system is part of the operating system, unlike windows that has these bloated downloads) A linux machine (when set up correctly) has little or no memory leakage, so the uptime (running time without a reboot) is much better. Arguably infinitely. To log out and in of linux takes seconds, and is as effective as a reboot, without the time wasted, and wear and tear on parts. *Linux is free.
leflaw	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 1:32 AM Linux doesn't secretly measure your penis and report back to Bill Gates' wife.
Expose	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 2:15 AM Don't blame him for that, he needs to know how his three incher is in comparison.
pog	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 5:02 AM Has anyone ever looked at the accessability options on installing windows... maybe thats why there's a magnify option.
pog	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 5:03 AM I hope my pc doesn't start crashing for that remark..
mracky	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 3:10 PM Huh? Applications and kernels in both O/S are binary. I think you're talking about the configuration files. Linux reads text files for MOST of its configuration information, but sometimes you are forced to recompile the kernel to include some special hardware sensitivity. I definitely prefer these text files to the Microsoft registry and/or INI files. My only gripe is that the config files location are all over the system. " id="57771">"Just to elaborate a little, The main differences are windows is all in binary , whereas linux program instructions are carried out in text form..." Huh? Applications and kernels in both O/S are binary. I think you're talking about the configuration files. Linux reads text files for MOST of its configuration information, but sometimes you are forced to recompile the kernel to include some special hardware sensitivity. I definitely prefer these text files to the Microsoft registry and/or INI files. My only gripe is that the config files location are all over the system.
Expose	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 3:50 PM My favorite thing lately is not having to restart everytime I install a program. That was a real pain in the ass.
pog	Date: August 7, 2003 @ 7:22 PM I once saw a guy install a nework card without restarting under linux. And I was referring to the format that the programs are exported/downloaded in. The open-sourced packages are all text based, whereas any m$ downloads are 50%-70% program, and the rest is all bloat, and code protection.
Karmatic	Date: August 8, 2003 @ 11:41 PM Sure, everyone just make fun of the $80-billion man. Apparently he's doing well. IMO, Gates is one of my role models. Think about it, he's a real business man. He made so much money without really having to actualy write very many operating systems. Linux is crap. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only good thing about Linux is Tux. Tux is cool in a cute little penguin holding a frag gun kinda way. But otherwise, why is Linuz still around. It's open source and free. For what purpose? Why take your time to write something so "great" and not take what is deserved to you. But anywho, Linux was designed because people would rather bitch about a problem than fix it, so they ran to Linux to support where the software was so basic that you got to program the final lines of code yourself practically. And they all lived complainingly ever after.
Expose	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 12:21 AM Bitching about problems, yes, that GETS IT FIXED. How many security holes come up in windows every month? Linux has LESS problems than windows. One of the biggest problems facing Linux right now is SCSI-emulation for CD burning with an IDE drive; mandrake supports it ALREADY with a nice little GUI, and the beta 2.6 kernel does it out of the box. How many sites do you know that work with IE only? TONS. The new IE is supposed to be using a new propriatery flash, which will only be available with their next OS, codenamed longhorn. That was unexpected. :rollseyes: :bleh: I'm guessing your experience with Linux was the RedHat. Or you just used some other retarded distro(SuSE, lycoris). Your arguement, is really just something I'd expect from an M$ employee.. it's all wrong. :rollseyes: Those distros DO get the money they deserve. SuSE is a multi-billion $$$ company, so is RedHat. Which just shows, advertizing insanely and getting more money doesn't mean you get a better product." id="57978">Gates is your role model? He stole a few companies from the people in the gaming industry(rarewares first example), the early xboxes had a DVD drive that can break after one year, and there's much more in the gaming industry alone. Linux is crap... prove it. What about it? Every little THING is better. More security.. well, if you don't install a server like me and forget to turn it off. It's faster. google and yahoo run their servers on it. Renaming files can be done while you're using them. You can choose between multiple GUIs, if one irritates you, and different screens. Formatting your drives, took me 20 seconds(40 GB). All the apps M$ charges you hundreds of dollars for, come in Linux FREE. Rebooting every time I install something is a pain in the ass. Guess what OS the RIAA uses, on their sites' servers. MY POINT EXACTLY. They do it for free because they want to be able to create something that doesn't suck, and contribute. It's a great feeling to see a program free of a glitch or with an extra feeling and say, "Hey, I did that!!!". Bitching about problems, yes, that GETS IT FIXED. How many security holes come up in windows every month? Linux has LESS problems than windows. One of the biggest problems facing Linux right now is SCSI-emulation for CD burning with an IDE drive; mandrake supports it ALREADY with a nice little GUI, and the beta 2.6 kernel does it out of the box. How many sites do you know that work with IE only? TONS. The new IE is supposed to be using a new propriatery flash, which will only be available with their next OS, codenamed longhorn. That was unexpected. I'm guessing your experience with Linux was the RedHat. Or you just used some other retarded distro(SuSE, lycoris). Your arguement, is really just something I'd expect from an M$ employee.. it's all wrong. Those distros DO get the money they deserve. SuSE is a multi-billion $$$ company, so is RedHat. Which just shows, advertizing insanely and getting more money doesn't mean you get a better product.
pog	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 12:48 AM take n-sync for example :D" id="57984">"...advertizing insanely and getting more money doesn't mean you get a better product" take n-sync for example
Karmatic	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 8:58 AM Except he didn't steal them, he bought them out, there's a difference. He was a business man his entire career. He took advantage of the fact that Mac hadn't picked up copyrights for their interface, etc. And seriously, I've NEVER had a problem with XP security holes. I've NEVER had a problem with it crashing. And me a M$ employee? Right... I have a ton of friends that design compters, cicuit boards, and whatnot that are about as computer expert as it gets that swear by XP." id="58015">"He stole a few companies from the people in the gaming industry" Except he didn't steal them, he bought them out, there's a difference. He was a business man his entire career. He took advantage of the fact that Mac hadn't picked up copyrights for their interface, etc. And seriously, I've NEVER had a problem with XP security holes. I've NEVER had a problem with it crashing. And me a M$ employee? Right... I have a ton of friends that design compters, cicuit boards, and whatnot that are about as computer expert as it gets that swear by XP.
leflaw	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 4:25 PM Wonderful. We are mostly all musicians here. Believe it or not, most musicians don't have businessmen as heros. Most people don't have businessmen as heros. Most people who have businessmen as heros are other businessmen. Are you a business man?
Expose	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 6:37 PM XP doesn't crash often if you maintain it well. If you use it hard, sooner or later, it'll bork. I mean, ask :chill:, he's an expert on this subject. :devious: :D Security holes you haven't had a prob with yet because you haven't been hacked through them yet. If you use IE a lot, you're just waiting for it. Before dec. 17th there was a hole known about for years that could be exploited so that someone could have full control of your computer. More were found in February, and more keep getting found. I like not having to have huge excess amounts of RAM either, to use a computer efficiently. I've got 9 "intensive" proggies running right now under 256 RAM; I see people all over the place buying 1 GB of RAM, I want to shoot the windoze disk out of their computer. If Linux is useless, don't use google or yahoo. These sites run on Linux servers because windows servers would require more processing power for the same amount of site traffic. " id="58060">The saying "I know people"... doesn't go well. Really, years ago, I've seen the SAME thing with people that'd go "I've seen people with hifis that think 112k MP3s sound GREAT!", back when 112k was the "cd quality" standard. Hell, I still see these people with 64k WMA ranting on about that. They make me want to shove a hearing aid up where it doesn't belong. XP doesn't crash often if you maintain it well. If you use it hard, sooner or later, it'll bork. I mean, ask , he's an expert on this subject. Security holes you haven't had a prob with yet because you haven't been hacked through them yet. If you use IE a lot, you're just waiting for it. Before dec. 17th there was a hole known about for years that could be exploited so that someone could have full control of your computer. More were found in February, and more keep getting found. I like not having to have huge excess amounts of RAM either, to use a computer efficiently. I've got 9 "intensive" proggies running right now under 256 RAM; I see people all over the place buying 1 GB of RAM, I want to shoot the windoze disk out of their computer. If Linux is useless, don't use google or yahoo. These sites run on Linux servers because windows servers would require more processing power for the same amount of site traffic.
jmweirick	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 7:46 PM i agree with expose totaly
Veracohr	Date: August 9, 2003 @ 10:34 PM First, I've never used Linux, so I'm not in the "Linux Community". But as an outsider looking in, I would extend the idea that some people believe in an ideal world where everything is freely shared and we no longer live in worship of the Allmighty Dollar. Those who believe in such a world may well want to make their own contribution to it's development, like creating an operating system and giving it out for free." id="58083">Audioslave: "But otherwise, why is Linuz still around. It's open source and free. For what purpose? Why take your time to write something so "great" and not take what is deserved to you." First, I've never used Linux, so I'm not in the "Linux Community". But as an outsider looking in, I would extend the idea that some people believe in an ideal world where everything is freely shared and we no longer live in worship of the Allmighty Dollar. Those who believe in such a world may well want to make their own contribution to it's development, like creating an operating system and giving it out for free.
pixelmasochist	Date: August 10, 2003 @ 10:19 AM Lest we forget that early dos was based on stolen ideas (from intergalactic digital research), before that all ms had was basic.
jmweirick	Date: August 10, 2003 @ 3:52 PM veracohr you got it right! that's the esential idea behind free software.
Expose	Date: August 10, 2003 @ 11:38 PM Yep... Some of the best stuff is open source and/or meant to be free. CDparanoia and EAC for ripping. LAME MP3 encoding with --alt-presets. WinMX, eMule, SoulSeek, BitTorrent. Mozilla Firebird.
dgtzr	Date: August 11, 2003 @ 12:16 AM Forget linux or microslack. It's all about the BSD's baby.
Expose	Date: August 11, 2003 @ 2:57 AM I'll try that. When my IQ goes up 30 points. Don't associate M$ and slackware in the same name, thanks for that. I hear raves about BSD... but I'm interested in knowing if normal linux packages work on BSDs.
dgtzr	Date: August 11, 2003 @ 11:15 AM http://www.freebsd.org" id="58198">BSD is parallel to Linux for the most part. They both utilize a subset of Unix instuctions so are compatible. BSD was developed to be a powerful network tool. I haven't used a fraction of freeBSD's capability, but it's just as nice if not more powerful than any linux distro. Check out this distro at http://www.freebsd.org
Expose	Date: August 25, 2003 @ 2:47 AM anything else?
Apertome	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 6:57 PM There are other advantages to having access to the source code. Anyone who uses a program can fix bugs and submit their fixes back to the person who wrote it, who can then apply the fix to their code. Also, since anyone can see the source code, you can verify that there are no "backdoors" in programs. When someone writes a program, they can include code that will (for example) allow them to access the computer of anyone who uses the program -- a "backdoor." Expose, Yahoo! uses FreeBSD, not Linux. IMO, the main advantage of Linux is reliability. While much of the known world tries to fight off the Windows Worm of the Week, Linux users sit back and relax. There have been a couple of viruses for Linux, but I have never encountered them. The reason they aren't a problem is because Linux isn't riddled with security holes like Windows is -- partially because it's open source, and partially because it's better-designed and better-written than Windows." id="60300">OK, I see some confusion here. What Pog meant by saying that Linux is distributed in "text" is that the source code is included. So say you wish a program had additional features. You can edit the source code and add features yourself. Without the source code, this is pretty much impossible to do. The only way you can modify programs without the source code is to reverse engineer them, and even then you can't do a whole lot. There are other advantages to having access to the source code. Anyone who uses a program can fix bugs and submit their fixes back to the person who wrote it, who can then apply the fix to their code. Also, since anyone can see the source code, you can verify that there are no "backdoors" in programs. When someone writes a program, they can include code that will (for example) allow them to access the computer of anyone who uses the program -- a "backdoor." Expose, Yahoo! uses FreeBSD, not Linux. IMO, the main advantage of Linux is reliability. While much of the known world tries to fight off the Windows Worm of the Week, Linux users sit back and relax. There have been a couple of viruses for Linux, but I have never encountered them. The reason they aren't a problem is because Linux isn't riddled with security holes like Windows is -- partially because it's open source, and partially because it's better-designed and better-written than Windows.
jmweirick	Date: August 29, 2003 @ 6:15 PM even so this site uses linux on it's servers. and yahoo does use google for searching, powered by linux." id="60373">"Expose, Yahoo! uses FreeBSD, not Linux." even so this site uses linux on it's servers. and yahoo does use google for searching, powered by linux.
pog	Date: August 29, 2003 @ 9:54 PM heheh... muxy can translate poggish into english !!! :milla: is the only other that can read
pog	Date: August 29, 2003 @ 9:59 PM ...it... Posted by accident, and hadn't finished my comment
Apertome	Date: August 29, 2003 @ 11:35 PM I'm not trying to say that Linux sucks or anything like that. I love Linux, personally. I just don't like to see incorrect information disseminated because it can make us (Linux users) seem less trustworthy. I am happy that DMusic's servers run Linux, but at the same time, I wouldn't call DMusic a Linux success story -- the servers are having almost constant problems, which is no fault of Linux. Either some admin isn't on top of things or the servers are just plain overloaded, or some combination of the two. Actually, I suspect whatever ISP DMusic uses is probably to blame for the DNS problems that have been plaguing this site.
erikshawn	Date: August 31, 2003 @ 6:36 PM well this all sounds really nice, linux does sound much much better than old crappy windows...but we can't all be programmers staying in front of a screen reprogramming every little application that is needed. If i have to take up computer lessons just to burn a cd, or surf on the ineternet, then i may as well be lazy and let bill gates worry about the technical problems for me...anyway, you guys rant, and rant, but dont even tell us "linux newbies" how or where to get it in the first place...
milladrive	Date: August 31, 2003 @ 6:38 PM heheh@poggy
Apertome	Date: August 31, 2003 @ 8:02 PM To keep things simple, I'd recommend Mandrake if you're a newbie. You can download it here: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3 If you have a CD burner, you can simply download ISO images, burn them to CDs, and boot from the first CD. It is possible to do it without a CD burner; there are directions on the page above. You can also buy Mandrake (or pretty much any other distribution) on CD, either online or you may be able to find copies at local stores that sell software." id="60625">erikshawn: good point! So far this has been a more general Q&A. But how and where to get Linux can be another point of confusion, since there are many different "distributions" of Linux; that is, different companies put out their own versions of Linux, bundled with different software. To keep things simple, I'd recommend Mandrake if you're a newbie. You can download it here: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3 If you have a CD burner, you can simply download ISO images, burn them to CDs, and boot from the first CD. It is possible to do it without a CD burner; there are directions on the page above. You can also buy Mandrake (or pretty much any other distribution) on CD, either online or you may be able to find copies at local stores that sell software.
johnnygnote	Date: November 9, 2003 @ 10:07 PM OK I'm new too Linux, just started using it this month, but I've been around computers for a long time. I remember when all we had was dos and basic and I even remember when data was stored on cassette tapes with a small tape player that looked like your sisters tape recorder she bought at radio shack to listen to her home made tapes of Bobby Darin. I like Linux, I'm using Mandrake 9.1 and sure it's a little more work getting things to run ie modems and such but I got so sick of BSOD's and worms and viruses and crashes that it was time for a change. I was pleased to find that using Linux was like the old days of computers when I was in control not the computer. Windows has a night mare called the "registry" and its kid brother the "dll's" they suck the big one!! Another thing was I started to wonder if maybe all those security holes in Windows are on purpose for 2 reasons, so you had to keep coming back to the Microsoft (xcuse me ladies) tit, and did anyone ever wonder if maybe a lot of the viruse's that plague Microsoft could be written by MS techs to keep McAfee and Norton in buisness. The way I look at it is like cars, Windows is for people who take their car to a mechanic for every little thing. Linux is for people who can work on their own car Leflaw I love what you said "Linux doesn't secretly measure your penis and report back to Bill Gates' wife." I couldn't have said it better, as far as billionaire buisnessman as hero's goes, In the words of the Inefable "Thing" "Nuff Said"
princess-angry	Date: November 9, 2003 @ 11:26 PM RedHat ownz!!!!!!
princess-angry	Date: November 9, 2003 @ 11:28 PM :redhat:
princess-angry	Date: November 9, 2003 @ 11:29 PM RedHat Enterprise ownz!!!!!
pog	Date: November 10, 2003 @ 8:41 AM I heard Mcafee's (or possibly some employees) got busted for writing virus's. Gatesey's a businessman... don't ever mistake this for a genius. And Linux does annihilate windows as far as security, stability, and customising goes. I'd love to see any windows distribution handle 2 media players (or 10 for that matter) at the same time, and run 16 desktops on a pentium III 550. Using about 5-10% of it's resources, with an uptime of days on end (even weeks and months without the wear and tear of rebooting all the time). The main reason that Linux kicks Windows ass is because under windows, the software has to figure out exactly every single combination of hardware that you've got on your pc by itself... usually it gets a fair bit of this wrong. Then every program has to figure out what hardware you're using. Under Linux, you tell your o.s. what printer you have and call it something as simple as "Printer" every other program just sends a command to "Printer" and you're away, thus a correctly set up machine in theory wont have all the issues of binary programs (95% of windows programs are in binary to protect the code, like we mentioned before Linux is open sourced text based). The end result is super great uptimes (how long till you need a reboot), and far more control. I dare say that if your average windows user spent as much time on Linux as they do in Windows, they'll be at home with the system in a relatively short period of time. It's not easy at first, but once you understand whats going on, it cranks.
Izekial	Date: November 11, 2003 @ 6:17 AM In Karmatic's defence, I'll say that I've seen Linux and it looked bothersome. My friend builds computers, is pretty much one of those hacker/experts, and he tried Linux for a long time, gave it a good shot. He thought it sucked, basically. I dunno why, but one day he was just using Windows XP again. I asked him if I could get Linux installed, I think, but he said I didn't have enough experience. He was right, but I felt kind of excluded there. I'll take the idiot proof program any day. I'm gonna get hacked? I'll experience technical difficulties? Haven't seen anything like that. Either I don't surf porn sites (that's the only way I can figure you people are getting hacked, that or you're stealing something or just being targeted) enough or I'm just not on the computer as much, or whatever the reason, I don't think I'm running into any trouble anytime soon. I'm a Windows man all the way. Bill can be my hero too, but not because he's a business man. He's my hero because he's got a billion fucking dollars.
princess-angry	Date: November 11, 2003 @ 9:03 PM umm, ok. What experice doe she have with networking? Windows is a very frustrating with networking. it is really a pain in the watuse to set up for networking of any type. Networking setup with Linux only involves a few little steps and it gets you connected fast. It also gets dail up set up quick too. I also think it will be easier to get two computers to share the same connection too. it was a ____ getting winxp to share a connection, let alone to get the two computers to talk to each other. and talk about lack on NIC support. it did not even support D-Link's most popular network adapter! DFE-500TX!!!! It installed as a generic one automatically and worked for 2 hours, then, xp crapped itself. The network was undisturbed the whole time and it all the sudden xp decides to say "oh I dont wanna be networked with that computer" and kills itself.
princess-angry	Date: November 11, 2003 @ 9:04 PM by the way I was using a 5 port Linksys switch that was brand new!
Svensta	Date: November 11, 2003 @ 11:12 PM This is why one would seek out a network OS like Win 2k professional. It has autodetected ever damn NIC I have thrown in a box with it installed, and configuration is really a snap. I think plug-n-pray is really getting close to what they originally promised.
pog	Date: November 12, 2003 @ 7:44 PM Hey, I don't have anything against Izekial or Karmatic being windows users, and I'm afraid it's unlikely to be pron sites thats getting them hacked. Usually its a vulnerability in their system 'cos they havn't updated, and some hacker's randomly port scanning whole Internet service providers for that particular vulnerability. Sorry, but it's still the users fault for not updating or having a firewall in plave, or a decent antivirus.
princess-angry	Date: November 13, 2003 @ 5:57 PM Windows 2000 was a mess with our school's Novell/W2K arcetecture. Out servers were brand new HP Proliant with win2k/novell netware. They alsohad 256MB RAM and 100 gig HD's. None of the files were readable from the server after the service pack. so they reverted. it was fine for a while but it was a mess later when they upgraded to a later novell server. Win2k was a mess with the DHCP servers and none of the workstations initally connected. The novell client was also hard to get working at times. I really did not like the setup they had. I wish they would have stuck with a single platform. But I think that a RedHat Linux server would have been the best thing. they would not have to upgrade right away either since RH cna function as a win file server. We are going to go with RealTek for ethernet since it is one of the most popular ethernet cards to get. Ours on our new machine is made by nVidia and it is currently not supported in Linux9. All of our MB's components are made by nVidia. Our mainboard is an XFX Mach4. It really is flamin. supports the AMD 3000. we have a 2700 @ 2.3 Ghz. If the RealTek is not an option we will go with Netgear or Linksys since Cisco cards are supported for two models only at this time. WE are going to have a 2600 series router to play around with for the CCNA labs. That would be cool. Cisco's the only thing I know right now, heck those are the only routers I've actually got to configure so far. I have not had access to Extreme or 3com/Huawei, Nortel, Dell, or most others. Sure I've resd up on them, but I would like to get to use some of thier stuff so I can get some expeince? Anyone know where you can telnet into one for free without buying one yourself?? that would be most helpful!!!
creativetim	Date: November 14, 2003 @ 12:56 AM I must chime in and say that as far as setting up networks in Windows, it's wicked easy. It's an f-ing WIZARD for crying out loud! It really holds your hand through the entire process, I'm speaking of Windows 2000 Server BTW.
princess-angry	Date: November 14, 2003 @ 3:39 PM well the "wizard" doesn't make it any easier. It makes the process seem complcated, just to make you think the wizard is helping you accomplish a major task. Installing programs is even easier in linux since you dont have to tell the "wizard" what to do with RedHat9.... double click on an RPM package and it installes almost automatically! source tarball. ./configure &make & make install!! that easy! compliling the program is actual;ly more efficiant for your hard drive too! and ext3 is much more efficiant, since this is about networking, let's atay on topic. setting up the server in linux does not involve 20 or so screens of GUI and going through 20 or more tabs just to configure access rights. And none of the features ever worked properly. and with Novell, ugh! A even Novell was shocked to hear of our situation! it would not work! so we had to downgrade and revert to not having the service pack.MS Service pack=want serviced? go ahead and install the service pack! It will just give you an excuse to install service pack over service pack! it wont hurt! : very sarcastically : : snickers :

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