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Online Improvisation across the web?

kingo	Date: March 12, 2005 @ 9:38 PM Here's a topic for discussion; even if no one has any answers right now, I think this is an interesting thing to talk about. I'm trying to do live (in studio) improvisation with partners who are geographically scattered. I thought there'd be a software package available, either in the form of a plug-in or a stand-alone app, that'd facilitate this sort of thing. But so far in my searching I've come up empty. We've tried a few chat applications that are supposedly full-duplex; but they've failed when we've gotten to where we're playing music on one or both sides of the connection. The software will begin acting half-duplex, so that while person A is playing music he/she can't hear what person B is playing. This isn't a monitoring issue; the software just stops broadcasting from one side. Obviously chat applications were not meant for this sort of load. I'm not worried about audio-quality here. The plan is that the people on each side of the connection record their own playing using their own equipment; the communication link would only be a monitoring tool. Ideally that monitor signal would be recorded on each end, too, so that synchronizing the audio tracks in one central place would be easier later on. I think the ideal solution to this problem would be to have a plugin to be used with recording software that'd act something like an additional audio input/output source. I use windows and SONAR, though any discussion about doing this using any software/hardware configuration is welcome. So: any ideas or thoughts on this? Sorry if any of you see this cross-posted; I'll be posting it on a number of places I haunt to fish for an answer.
pog	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 12:57 AM you could try something like teamspeak, but the latency may be too high.
imemine	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 1:18 AM Very ambitious thinking however I’m with pog at this juncture. Live internet today (with my limited experience) has WAY too much latency for anything live—well unless you know of (or have) some super fast pipeline. You have me sincerely curious though. Please keep us all posted if you find anything and I’ll be peeking around too! :milla:--- Hey, like Mux is like Wyle E. Coyote - Super Genius or something----and he has to have something to do with this thingy you have going on here. ---WAIT! That’s it!----build the super widget and you guys can get rich------well at least I’ll use it!!! * checks wallet * I only have three dollars.
Apertome	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 1:20 AM Let me add some details. We've tried Skype (http://www.skype.com/) and Game Voice Share (http://www.gamevoice.com/Download/gamevoiceshare.asp?Page=14 src="http://images.dmusic.com/v7/emoticons/cool.gif" align="middle" alt="8) (Cool)" title="8) (Cool)" />. Skype was fine until we had the problem Halaka mentioned above; we couldn't get Game Voice Share working, for some reason. Latency seemed like it wouldn't have been problematic with Skype, had it not had the cut-outs. Haven't tried Teamspeak, though, that might be worthwhile.
Apertome	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 1:20 AM Whoops: http://www.gamevoice.com/Download/gamevoiceshare.asp?Page=148
Apertome	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 1:21 AM @ Imemine
kingo	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 10:11 AM Regarding "us" not being able to get Game Voice Share working -- obviously by "we" you meant "me." I mean, err, myself couldn't get it working, since you've already used it for other things. Basically I didn't want to keep messing with it because the part where you set which audio ins and outs you use for it is not good for this kind of thing; you've got to pick an audio port, wait while it tests your system, do some mic tests and shit. I just don't think it'd work for what we're trying to do very easily. At any rate, I couldn't get it to do anything but turn your voice into that creepy-cool-weird sound, which at least I recorded. So we'll keep you posted about what we come up with. If anything. Thanks for the interest, ime!
zedsalt	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 10:16 AM I heard that one of Elton John's recent works was recorded, partially, through an international telephone line.
kingo	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 10:19 AM I considered telephones or speakerphones. But I don't imagine that'd ever be a real solution so much as something to use in a pinch.
Intergalacti...	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 3:53 PM Sorry I would like to comment upon this subject but I can't be arsed to read the start in one sentence describe what this is about. The sentence being no more than twelve words
Apertome	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 5:23 PM We want to jam in real time over the Internet.
pog	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 5:42 PM One of my friends works in a guitar shop on the other side of australia, and once he mentioned something about having a jam over the internet using a product made by line 6. I have scoured the internet for just such a device, but havn't had any success as yet. Maybe it was by roland or something
kingo	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 6:36 PM It's a mythical beast, this device or software that will allow this kind of activity. Fanch thought he'd seen information about a recording application designed to do this. I've found this: http://www.ejamming.com/index2.html Which does exactly what we're talking about except only with midi. So it's not exactly what we're talking about, or even what we're talking about at all. Unless you play strictly midi stuff.
Woof	Date: March 13, 2005 @ 10:25 PM The good: The technology's there. The Bad: It's prohibitively expensive. :$1,500 US if you're a ProTools user (it's a plugin). http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/2005/Source-Connect.html Maybe there's some info there, that will lead to a more reasonable alternative... I think it'd be safe to say these guys CAN'T be the only ones working on such a thing...
kingo	Date: March 14, 2005 @ 7:23 AM That's an excellent find, Woof. I hadn't come across that in all my searching. The thing there is that it's geared toward having the remote performance recorded in broadcast quality locally. At least I think that's what it's saying. That'd be more complex, or at any rate more picky, than having the recording done on either end of the pipe, and just letting the broadcast stream be of a "good enough" quality for monitoring and synching. Of course having something that does what this thing does for something other than pro-tools, and that'd cost much less than 1500 bucks, would rock. Definitely on the right track there...
pog	Date: March 20, 2005 @ 8:45 PM I found this conferencing site, and they're not there yet, but they are working on full duplex mode so that small groups can interact at the same time.... may be worth keeping an eye on for $50 per month http://www.bizwizconference.com/
Woof	Date: March 20, 2005 @ 11:41 PM http://www.liveconferencepro.com/conferencingservices.html Looks to be pretty cheap (free to try; &14.95/mo. to subscribe, but of course there's the issue of quality (I'm assuming there's tech support for subscribers), and also how to record the conferences... however it does seem stable, as the site is quick to mention how the conferencing is compatible over even 56k connections... http://www.xten.com/index.php?menu=products&smenu=download Is a mystery to me, but it's there; it's free, and we all know us indies have weeks or even months of time to devote to getting obscure software to work properly, 'cause we're all just a bunch of idle layabouts anyway The gamers on the web are pretty quick to recommend Teamspeak above most other conferencing software, though... so apparently a lot of folks are able to get it to work, and work well for them. At least, with a lot of users out there already, it ought to be easy enough to get answers for technical issues via Google search. http://www.goteamspeak.com Wish I could find more stuff like the Pro Tools plugin, but it seems there just ain't a lot out there... hopefully, at least, some of this info ought to be good for keeping you glued to your monitor for another week or so...
leflaw	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 7:06 AM I would think you needed at least T1 line for no latency.
pancreaspuppet	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 7:19 AM I know there's a lot of software in development to do a midi-jam over the net. This is significantly less problematic than using audio, but less fun too. And everyone has to play on a keyboard, unless you have a ludicrously expensive midi-saxophone or something. It could be cool though if everyone was using the same host program, then you could load up each players custom patches so all the sounds are the way you want them, but this is still loads of fiddling around for something which is (to me anyway) at heart a novelty.
kingo	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 8:25 AM Using midi would be a novelty thing for me. I'm usually doing vocals in improv jams, and I don't have a voice-to-midi converter installed in my neck yet. pog, Woof: thanks for the new links. I'll try to check those out this week.
zedsalt	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 11:14 AM Casio made a couple of cheap "digital horns" that function as midi controllers. Justinother1 has one that he's let me use on several occasions. I've seen The Residents use one, too. Guitar synths are getting better and better as far as the tracking goes. Having said that, I've always found digital sound, in general, kind of disappointing. The editing/sharing capabilities are cool, but the sound quality...
imemine	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 12:04 PM Voice to Midi Converter " id="129222"> Voice to Midi Converter
kingo	Date: March 21, 2005 @ 12:24 PM
Glueckman	Date: April 1, 2005 @ 3:56 PM Hi All. I'm the Chairman/President of eJamming and I just wanted to let you all know that real time multiparty jamming/collaboration/creation over the internet is coming very soon. Our new website will be up in a few weeks, where you'll be able to sign up to Beta Test the eJamming(TM) Station, which will connect up to 8 musicians on a private stage where you'll be able to plug in any MIDI-enabled instrument and play together in real time -- in sync -- over DSL or cable modem. Full duplex VoIP while you set up and even while you're playing. And you can patch any soundbank you've got to the MIDI triggers you create via keyboards, MIDI guitars, V-drums, wind controller, MIDI violins, etc... Record and playback and you can export to any mixing/editing/sequencing software to sweeten. Vocalists, you can add vocals locally. So hang in there, eJamming(TM) is coming. Real Time. For Real.
shadowself	Date: June 14, 2005 @ 9:28 AM I used to do this YEARS ago (MIDI only, though) with a program called... something about a dragon, maybe? Or a rocket?
shadowself	Date: June 14, 2005 @ 9:35 AM Found it. 1998. It was called the Res Rocket DRGN. http://jamwith.us/about_us/rocket_history.shtml

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