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fuck your structures

aenimus	Date: July 1, 2005 @ 5:02 PM and pretty chords, and years of lessons. listen to aenimus.dmusic.com for "other" electronic music. i dont like the term experimental, but i guess it will be inevitably used.
vladb	Date: July 1, 2005 @ 5:12 PM i feel that our paths are likely to cross often. i do like tunes, but sometimes its good to find the music your self in what your listening to.
milladrive	Date: July 2, 2005 @ 8:13 AM Ain't nothin' wrong with pretty chords. I say whatever works.
shadowself	Date: July 3, 2005 @ 11:03 PM I am going to stick with my pretty chords.
evansorchid	Date: July 3, 2005 @ 11:43 PM Some people wanna fill the world with silly love songs. What's wrong with that?
hueseph	Date: July 4, 2005 @ 2:55 AM Ah yes but take away the computer and what is there left? So long as there is wood and steel or dead cats for that matter. I will always be able to play pretty chords.
EvilPicnic	Date: July 4, 2005 @ 5:06 AM 'Fuck your structures' That's great! Mate, you're not doing anything new, you're at least 50 years behind times. I like your music, but Philip Glass, Steve Reich, even Claude Shoenberg; they've all been there before you. Been there, done that, bought the CD, as it were. Hey, if you can, give a listen to Trevor Wishart's piece 'Vox 5' (composed in 1979), it'll blow your mind. Besides, all music has structure, whether you know it or not (your piece 'adnate' is a typical example of Minimalist metamorphosis, where the seperate cells merge into the next sequence), it is impossible to write a piece without structure (even not having a structure is actually a structure); pretty chords make the uglier ones uglier (how can you recognise ugliness if you can't compare it with beauty?), and years of lessons teach you that the dull dreariness of music theory is actually a brillinat facade. The rules cannot be broken because THERE ARE NO RULES. Anyway, yeah, that was all a load of bullshit. I like your music, but are you the new wave of originality? Nope.
BlackMage	Date: July 4, 2005 @ 2:49 PM Fuck my 6 years of self learning... all down the sewer...
mrjonnyd	Date: July 25, 2005 @ 3:12 PM Woah lets just take a moment here... Just because it's not a new idea, the rebellion against the commonplace, doesn't mean shit man; so you immediatly switch off to the possibility? what happened to evolution? review your angle. I agree that it's impossible to write a piece without some level of structure, however, the bohemian approach is something we should all be striving for. Sorry to be blunt but in 10 years time you'll (evil) be bored whilst this dude (aenimus) is laughing. I hope I am, although I know I have a lot of work to do
Elu	Date: July 25, 2005 @ 5:16 PM Reality is whatever works. Everything, all styles come back around. If you polish your sound and become perfect at your craft, no one will deny your music and or musical abilities. How many bands these days are riding the coat tails of the 80's bands producing that same sound with just the smallest twist? That hip hop sound and rapping has been around sooooo long now, well past 10 years. Every new artist sounds like the last one...and don't even get me started on country. The only thing to learn is do what makes you happy, listen to what others say and look who is saying it. If it's your tone deaf cousin is commenting on your vocal melody....ummmmm...yeah. No. Everybody has something to say...all of it is an opinion and we all know "everybody has one". Perfect your craft. Genres are placed for a reason...I believe that DMusic had discussed this same issue a couple of years back. If you don't categorize, you can't find what your looking for. If you feel your music belongs elsewhere, help people to see it. "Fuck your structures"...all music requires structure to work or it's just noise. If you disagree then your world is chaotic and disturbed and you will surely be swimming against the current for the rest of your life on this earth. All things in life require balance and harmony including music. Life to death, dark to light, transition from one form to another. One chord to another. You can't go from a complete stop to a movement at 100mph without harming yourself or others. If you can break the code in this one...let me know.
mrjonnyd	Date: July 25, 2005 @ 5:40 PM "Reality is whatever works" So it's: 'what do you want to achieve?' 'what works for your aims?' 'is it progress or progression you're interested in?' 'are you content/happy with your work?' The above questions and many more influence you as well as what's in the charts or whatever your bag is. I think the best music, the most expressive, is when it's like water - formless? yet takes shape... ..(cheers Bruce)
just2ska	Date: July 26, 2005 @ 12:58 PM Music is a very broad term.
zedsalt	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 12:45 PM Someone struck my fuctures once. Hurt like the dickens.
egac	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 1:21 PM i have no structure to begin with
GeneHilbert	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 1:33 PM How metaphysical is it?
EvilPicnic	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 2:12 PM mrjonnyd: My rant was a reaction to his tone, which came across as arrogant (as I probably do, but I've come to terms with my inherent hypocritality, and so don't give a fuck), especially in the last sentence. Read my post again: I'm all for rebellion against the commonplace, that's what my stuff's all about, that's what my idea of good music is all about. My point was that the way he's done it isn't much of a rebellion, it's a retread of a past rebellion. He hasn't gone far enough to make what he's doing truly innovative. I'm not attacking the bohemian approach, just his way of approaching it. And in tenyears time [he intones, staring into the crystal ball] I'll still be writing and performing music FOR FUN, while he churns out the same old dross. Which is harsh, considering I actually quite likehis music. so I take that sentence back. But you get the general gist. I cannot see myself getting bored any time in the near future, thankyouverymuch. So yeah, all summed up, my comment was aimed at aenimus and aenumus' music, and does not convey in any way my outlook on music in general. Looking over the above, I seem to come across as quite vitriolic. I dont mean to be, as I like your stuff and agree with your points and generally agree. I'm just in a stressed out, hissy-fit mood and it comes acroos badly, I think. Anyway, mr metaphysics, how's this one: Even a conscious lack of structure is a strucure. And I think the best music, the most expressive, is a completely subjective thing. 'f you disagree then your world is chaotic and disturbed and you will surely be swimming against the current for the rest of your life on this earth. All things in life require balance and harmony including music. Life to death, dark to light, transition from one form to another. One chord to another. You can't go from a complete stop to a movement at 100mph without harming yourself or others.', says Elu. I don't agree.
freddemillio	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 2:15 PM Getting your fuctures struck is not metaphysical at all. It is all together too physical.
aenimus	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 4:41 PM evil albeit adnate and a couple others of my songs have structure, you have to admit a couple songs dont have much, and im speaking in the conventional sense. and as you say, evil, a conscious lack of structure is structure, i say that's digging deep. anything can be disqualified with that line of thinking, like "nothing is perfect, except for the fact nothing is perfect." what if i was unconscious, or writing music in my sleep? hey, it could happen! anyway, i really just wanted to say something extreme, and shamelessly plug myself. i was not expecting this much from this! i think it's great.
EvilPicnic	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 4:50 PM Shameless plugs are cool, but bring me out in a rash. I like your music and will listening to more of it in the future. Structure is a variable, it's something which the brain applies to it's surroundings. If you listen long enough you can hear the structure in the traffic, how it slows whe the lights are red, and speeds up at green. But you can also hear the randomness. It's a mixed up muddled up, shook up world, 'cept for Lola. Lo-lo-lo-lo-Lola, L-O-L-A Lola, Lo-lo-lo-lo-Lola, BA-BA-BA-BAM-BA-BAM-BAAAH.
aenimus	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 5:21 PM i tend to like to think of the universe as a whole as a chaotic mess. the cold hands of science of shown that there are no absolutes. everything crumbles over time. and again, finding structure in traffic? if there were, it would only be to such a small scale that it wouldn't matter, and will easily be overridden by chaos. the only order in life is that there is none.
mrjonnyd	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 6:34 PM All im saying is attitudes striving for new ground, musically, should be nurtured. Of course it isn't an instant thing, it's experimental. Arrogance is irrelevant here. Music is music. So long as there's honesty in expression, that's all that matters.
aenimus	Date: July 27, 2005 @ 7:13 PM wow-i surely hope i wasn't being arrogant...not my intention at all. i was merely making a statement on how people tend to grab on to what's familiar. i say chart unchartered lands! i personally get bored listing to and playing 4/4 structures all the time, but to each their own. i was in no way trying to bomb on others.
zedsalt	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 11:51 AM "Even a conscious lack of structure is a strucure." So true, that's why lottery "quickpicks" (letting the computer pick a random number for you) are so successful. If you take a roomful of people and ask them to stand in a formation with no pattern, they'll fall into an organic pattern; everyone will be within a certain distance range of each other and within a certain angle range in relation to everyone else. Personally, I like to create a structure, ignore/deny it, restructure it to a degree, ignore/destroy the new structure, lather, rinse, repeat...
koiulpoi	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 12:37 PM If you think that chaos has no order, that the two really are diametrically opossed, you should read up on chaos theory to find out what chaos really is. It's not what you think. "Perfect your craft. Genres are placed for a reason...I believe that DMusic had discussed this same issue a couple of years back. If you don't categorize, you can't find what your looking for. If you feel your music belongs elsewhere, help people to see it." Then where the fuck do I fit in? I'm sure one of you genre masters can fit me in somewhere, but I like to think I'm outside the loop somehow.
imemine	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 12:55 PM I just accidentally struct my fuckture---that’s gonna leave a mark!
mrjonnyd	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 3:09 PM Being a pretty crap musician myself, I'm constantly getting fustrated over having a jam and organically writing something, albeit structured, as you play. Then sitting down and cramming into a shape that makes it a 'good' listen. Maybe the only real critisim is if something is in an 'overly recognised' strucutre, therefore, too structured? This is where my angle is coming from. I understand the chaos theory which incorporates Evil's view - I think music is most enjoyable when theres a drive toward the new. Genres on the other hand...are killing music. As I view it above.
mrjonnyd	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 3:11 PM They're hurting music ... h.u.r.t.i.n.g it.
HenriRoger	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 4:42 PM fuck your structures is a well structured sentence
koiulpoi	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 7:06 PM As I've said before, Genres exist because somebody else has copied somebody's style. Sure, that person may have been influenced by someone else, but the original idea had to be original somehow.
Elu	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 7:45 PM Again, All things in life require structure to work....ALL THINGS. Yes traffic noise can become structured if you listen long enough....indicating that again all things require structure. Chaos I suppose could contain some sort of structure...Chaos in my life....ummm not so much. Balance goes with structure. Chaos has balance but it's balance is structure. Genres don't exist because someone copied someone else's sound. Genres exist so that it can be placed and catelogued. Just like the library. Think about it. All of you who think you are inventing something new are just full of crap. We all sound like someone else...everything has been done unless you're gonna make up some sort of instrument that chimes when you yank your doodle. Name one band that doesn't sound like someone...or has at least one song that can be compared to anothers....um lets see...Tangerine Dream very unique but not alone in the world. Did they coin eclectic or electronica? No...someone who needed to place their music did that and then other musicians wrote similar music and tried to mix it with hip hop and then we got something in between and a new genre to boot. koiulpoi...your music is clearly electronica with a tinge of new age. Progressive electronic would be your genre. Many artists make similar music to yours as well. I think it's rediculous to stir the muck when it's just going to settle back down to muck.
mrjonnyd	Date: July 28, 2005 @ 9:31 PM I think the damage genres do is when someone starts writing and as soon as he/she recognises say.... 'emo' in their music - becomes attracted by that and thinks 'i'm emo'.. or be doing it subconsciously. I don't like it when two bands, for example sound so, so alike, you can barely tell them apart. It happens, and it shouldn't because they're two groups of totally different people. That's influence beyond a guiding hand from something you identify with.
aenimus	Date: July 29, 2005 @ 10:27 AM mrjonnyd dont get me started on copying someone else to an extreme extent. oh too late. i have noticed a lot of people in the music field do that, and they don't seem to be true to their art. they try to fit in to a specific genre only for the sole purpose of finding a reward at the end of the rainbow, and the reward usually being monetary (or still in some cases drugs and sex). fortunately very few bands ever make it like that. they strive for one thing that's popular and in 6 months that music has been completely exhausted on MTV, thus no chance for them to make it big.
zedsalt	Date: July 29, 2005 @ 12:49 PM Koi': I think...and for my own sake, hope...that's what the "Other" genre is for. I mean, eventually, someone will probably come along, notice a few commonalities among a slight majority of "Other" tunes and create a ridiculously narrow definition of "Other", but in the meanwhile... mrjonnyd: Categorization will always fall short of its intent...fortunately, there will also always be exciting, innovative music that will somehow be found by some portion of those who'd find a personal resonance in it. "Fuck your structures" really is a well-structured sentence...MUCH better than "Caution! Wet Floor". I mean, I understand the first exclamation, and the second bit lacks a subject, so I assume it's the imperative implied "you". "Wet", as a verb, I understand (wet one's pants, wet the bed, etc.), but just trying urinating next to one of those signs sometime!!! People get ALL upset! I tend to lack good sentence structure. aenimus: Truer words were never spoken, but it's so pitifully easy to recognize when something is contrived. I know, it's damn annoying to hear contrived crap, and it is pretty much unavoidable, but that should tell us something: there's a HUGE audience for music that doesn't challenge the ear too much, is easily digested. That's kinda MTV's purpose, right? to provide easy access to material that's either no longer really relevant, or never really was? I think the assumption is that people who are more willing to WORK at listening to music are also more willing to work at finding it. As long as no one gets too insistent that I should be listening to and/or making such music, I'll be happy.
koiulpoi	Date: July 30, 2005 @ 8:02 PM Elu - I do see your point and agree somewhat with your definition of Genres. My main problem, I suppose, is with Quick and Over-categorization. And I don't feel that I'm creating anything new and totally unique - of course my music is influenced from other music I have heard. However, I have stumbled upon 'Progressive Electronica' myself without ever hearing a song in that genre. I was just writing the music my mind created. Although, that's not really a point in either of our arguments so it may be moot. I suppose I have a problem with prejudice in genres. People hear that music is one genre such as 'Techno' or 'Country' and completly disregard everything that falls into it. Having tried to share my music with some people and having it being rejected because "I liked it, but it was Techno, and I can't listen to techno." kinda hurts. I understand that people all have different tastes in music, but I have a problem when somebody passes off the merit of the music. I can't stand Green Day, but I understand their music has merit in that it is simple, straightforward, easy to listen to, and popular. Ah well. I'm done ranting for now.
pog	Date: July 30, 2005 @ 11:58 PM Odd... the first track that I listen to on aenimus's artist page is in 4/4. Not having a dig, just trying to interject a few points to this discussion from the unpopular learned part of the community. I am in no way saying that to study music is the only acceptable way to practice a craft, but it does make if somewhat easier to achive your goals. The main reason people tend to write and listen to music with a mathmatical approach is because it makes it easier to sing along to... think about what would happen if your heart were to beat for 5 then the timeing changed, then maybe beat for 1 at double speed, then stop for a minute... disaster This also effects the ability to dance along or even nod your head, thus reducing the pleasure levels for the listener. If you look at something like the chaos factor, then you will find that everything, including random things has some form of formula to it, even if it is a bit all over the place and hard to follow. It's not cool... it just is (IMHO)... it also makes such a creation difficult to delive in a live application. One thing I do know is that a musician who hasn't studied any theory at all, whether it be school, lessons, or being shown stuff through literature or peers, then they tend to live their life with a hell of a lot of frustration and disappointment as they have no real way to effectively transfer ideas into a usable medium.
pog	Date: July 31, 2005 @ 12:02 AM .... I will add, aenimus that maybe you should consider submitting some of your music for movie backgrounds.
aenimus	Date: July 31, 2005 @ 10:16 AM ..thank you pog. and mind you what i said, im still going to write a majority of my music in 4/4. i was just speaking in terms of conventionalism..when it comes to music, i try not to be, and i think that should be most artist's goal. otherwise the world would be full of the same thing, same music, etc. everybody is unique, so everybody's music should be different (at least to a little extent). not trying to impose anything, just dropping in my .
zedsalt	Date: July 31, 2005 @ 12:08 PM I think Jimi Hendrix did a pretty good job of putting his feelings and thoughts into music. He couldn't tell you...or at least, claimed he couldn't tell you...what a third or fifth was, didn't know what comprised a key, couldn't remember any of the mnemonics for placing notes on a staff ("Every good boy deserves fudge", etc.), didn't know what a time signature is, etc. I've read a quote where he asked if there was "such a thing as an 'I' note. I play 'Gs', or so I'm told. Is there an 'I'? An 'H'?" He was just one end of a spectrum. I've had people tell me that something I wrote was a really sharp bit of music theory, when I had to struggle to right down what I'd just played after it was recorded (in tablature-I'm an almost complete idiot when it comes to theory, but I like to get at least the melodies on paper somehow). I've heard things that sounded chock full of gut-level feel and had the kind of energy I associate with improv, and I was shocked to learn that they were arrived at almost mathematically. If I give the slightest thought to that sort of analysis, it CRIPPLES me. The important thing, I think, is recognizing how much/how little the theory side of things plays into YOUR music and being true to that.
Elu	Date: August 1, 2005 @ 10:36 AM "People hear that music is one genre such as 'Techno' or 'Country' and completly disregard everything that falls into it"....I totally agree with this. These are the shallow people of the world...the ones who voted for George Bush. Dogh And I totally agree with Pog...it's gotta flow. Zedsalt...Ummmm...theory is a huge part of writing...HUGE! If you don't know theory, you will definately suffer frustration when writing. However, I will acknowledge that some people posses a natural understanding of musical theory.
HenriRoger	Date: August 1, 2005 @ 11:45 AM aenimus, maybe you say "fuck your structures" for yourself cause i heard one of your pieces and it is fucking structured man you even play fucking pretty chords This theory question is a troll on a lot of forums ,i think those saying it is useless, never tried it ...and that those knowing it and saying it 's useless are perverts here is a fantastic book about symetric harmony stuff :"the thesaurus of scales " Nicolas Slonimski , many great improvisers ,freejazz musicians , worked with these possibilities to get more freedom in their playing .
zedsalt	Date: August 1, 2005 @ 12:44 PM When I write with a guitar, what I usually do is twist the tuning pegs around until I get an open chord I like, write two to four songs, write down chord charts/tablature...lyrics, if any occur to me, slap the guitar on the tuner and tweak it in (so I can play along with instruments that I can't retune, bring other folks in to play, etc.), then record. It isn't the only method I use, obviously (not all my tunes even have a guitar in them), but it's one I use often, and my approach to other instruments is just as intuitive. I've worked with a number of folks who are very well-versed in music theory, and I have to admit, when they tell me one of my guitar chords is really difficult to put a name to, I'm MUCH happier than when they say something like, "That's a 'D'. I mean, there's an interesting little octave droning in there, but it's still just a 'D'." Silly, I know, but that's me. The only frustration I've encountered when writing is kind of silly, too. I hit a little slow period...a few days, a couple weeks tops...and I get all worked up over not getting anything done. I'm not on any deadline; no one else is suffering from my lack of productivity, and inevitably, I look back at the end of the year and see six, eight, ten hours of music I've written and recorded in that time that I really enjoy listening to.
mrjonnyd	Date: August 1, 2005 @ 3:45 PM I personally don't like the idea of having a really great jam or improv session., then getting my calculator out to try and make it digestible. If you're someone who enjoys jamming/improvising more than emotionlessly piecing bits of riff together until it 'sounds good'...then you have to balance between the formed (structured) and the formless. Of course structure is needed, but artists have barely begun to remove structure in any serious way…from my music collection artists like Squarepusher are really breaking boundries here. I get the impression music theory is best used as one of those 'learn then forget' sort of things, so your mind isn't filled with lines and lines when you're playing your guitar (or preferred instrument). Your mind has got to be empty if you're going to come out with the truth. If you've not learnt music theory (like me) then I wouldn't worry about it. If you're not enjoying playing the guitar, getting frustrated, then I'd check it out - but I'd careful with a 'little knowledge' because you're in danger of overly focusing on it. Right? I agree with just everyone here really. It's all true, but it's the balancing of the details. I don't think judging aenimus' music currently is particularly constructive, because a year ago those 4/4's could have been more rigid and fewer scales used, or whatever you judging by. The key is progression I think. 'Progress' rather than 'progression'- implies an end, a goal, something you're trying to reach which is what's going to frustrate you and cloud your mind with all sorts of contradictions; surely not doing your music any good. People just need to chill out and forget everything and play and have fun. If you need to ‘read up’ for the 'perfect riff' to do that, then fine by me.
koiulpoi	Date: August 2, 2005 @ 9:39 AM I have no musical theory background. Yet, in College next fall, I'll be starting on a music minor - I figure it can't hurt anything - adding a little know-how to my madness .
pog	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 12:23 AM ... actually, there is a "H" chord. I think it's the old German style of composing, where the H was a B, and the B was in fact a Bb ...more info that may or may not be useful to ya one day
GeneHilbert	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 12:29 AM Wow Pog - someone actually knew that ........ very kewl...... I'm impressed.....
egac	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 1:07 AM what the H?
GeneHilbert	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 3:15 AM Yes........ egac Face it - structure is what makes music - music. Structure makes everything what it is. Without structure you have nothing and even nothing has structure. Even if you're a jam band - as soon as the tune begins - it has structure and when it is over - it has structure. I've done the jam band thing and I must be honest here. Sometimes it was kewl and spontaneous, other times it was a fucking train-wreck - so someone had to set a structured groove to pull it together. We use the universal sign for gone for notes. When appropriate, which was often the case. Jazz is basically improv - but you have structure (Head, Bridge, End) to set up the improv. So Fuck Your Structure is ridiculous - because without structure you and everything else would cease to exist.
jd2theog	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 3:59 AM yes..like math.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 4:09 AM try telling that to Aphex Twin
Snoogans775	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 5:21 AM but he was still yelling at the "common" structures, so whether everything exists in this universe and that's that, it still is pretty normal to give society a good fisting.
koiulpoi	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 10:11 AM Aphex Twin had structure. Come on, Salvador Dali had structure. It was just fucked up.
mrjonnyd	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 4:57 PM Maybe aenimus meant fuck your 'overly repeteiive' structures. No one has said that the total removal of structure would be a good thing.
pog	Date: August 3, 2005 @ 5:51 PM repeat after me repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works repitition works what am I saying ? repitition works
koiulpoi	Date: August 6, 2005 @ 6:39 PM Repition what?
evansorchid	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 12:46 AM a
vladb	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 9:49 AM indeed
psypig	Date: August 7, 2005 @ 10:02 AM Always remember you're unique. Just like everybody else.
PappyBlue	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 9:59 AM Do you practice safe sex when f-ing structures?
aenimus	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 11:57 AM So my structure's like, "Me so horny baby! Me love you long time! Sucky sucky $15 dolla!" I was able to haggle it to $10.
kingo	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 11:58 AM My structure keeps fucking itself before I can even get hard. That fucker's quick.
pancreaspuppet	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 6:17 PM I ejaculated prematurely on my structures. It was really embarrassing.
monkvolcano	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 10:03 PM i think that it would be cool if there was an emoticon for masturbating a brain.. i would use them right now.. some one brought up aphex twin (my friggin hero). . i think something he does that makes his stuff so good that we can all take a lesson from is: he don't take himself too seriously.. yeah.. we're all just little slightly hairy creatures wandering around beating on stuff to make "music" because it releases endorphins.. and that's about it i think.. bless you evil picnic for coming to terms with your innate hypocritality.. i'm still working on that.
kingo	Date: August 15, 2005 @ 10:24 PM I take everything halaka does deadly seriously. It's impossible to overestimate. Every nuance is the most important thing in the world.
zedsalt	Date: August 16, 2005 @ 12:27 PM Is patronizing a prostitute an area where you really WANT to economize, Aenimus? If I were ever to treat myself to a hooker, I can't imagine that'd I'd go for THE absolute lowest bidder.
zedsalt	Date: August 16, 2005 @ 12:28 PM "...that'd I'd go..." WTF?
GeneHilbert	Date: August 16, 2005 @ 12:40 PM Still Funny..... LOL.... Me shutters to think
aenimus	Date: August 16, 2005 @ 8:19 PM all vietnamese prostitutes are dirty prostitutes. so you can pay your $15 while pay $10 for the same thing! that'd would be all for now.
Snoogans775	Date: August 17, 2005 @ 12:38 AM I'd think'd that those prostitutes're have no structures.
imemine	Date: August 17, 2005 @ 12:46 AM Well see, I don’t know nottin ‘bout dem Vietnamese prostitutes! What happen when ya only pay like a dolla? You dick fall off?
Snoogans775	Date: August 17, 2005 @ 1:53 AM HA! I scoff the cheese-flavored prostitutes, I'm from Reno, where prostitutes are this from being govmnt employees!

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