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What makes electronic music stand out...to you?

Tudris	Date: October 3, 2006 @ 9:23 AM Given that anyone smart enough to obtain copies of some sequencing and synthesizing software through some means can start producing electronic music, there's a vast sea of it out there. And yeah, a lot of it is crap either due to a lack of creativity or basic knowledge of music theory. But after this point it becomes possible to produce electronic music with a specific sound, for example drum and bass, breakbeat, trance, glitch, etc. And again, there are mounds and mounds of alright sounding music in each category. But they all lack a level of quality that I would say matches the likes of, say, Led Zeppelin or Tool. They are loops, some of them rather clever, and composition consists of variegating them with different combinations, filters and effects, new beats, etc. Then throw in some unique transitions and it gets probably a magnitude better. And of course, sometimes repetition speaks for itself and is a necessary quality to achieve the desired effect in the music (especially in trance, for example), but after so many amateurs (talented and otherwise), how does one really stick out in the genre in the way that certain bands or groups in other genres have their own unique sound? A few electronica artists I can name which stand out above the rest are Autechre (in the IDM genre, whatever that really means), Aphex Twin (in the drill and bass genre), Prodigy and Crystal Method (in the breakbeat genre, though many of Prodigy's songs seem to share the same themes [though their newest release is quite unique among the rest I think]), and Infected Mushroom (in the trance genre). These artists stand out to me because their ability compose uniquely and because of the way they've used and ravaged electronically produced and altered sounds to create musical sounds never heard before. Not to mention that I'm a rhythm whore, which definitely influences much of what I listen to. Right now in my music, I'm looking to develop my style as well as my compositional creativity. I also want to look into different musical tools that aren't used much in electronic music and see if I can incorporate them into my sound (like odd time signatures, a variety of scales, different sounding rhythmic ideas). It might be a great help for myself as well as other electronic musicians on this site to see what makes electronic music sound distinct to the discerning music listeners here on DM. So what do you think?
leedsquietman	Date: October 3, 2006 @ 10:43 AM A substantial amount of electronica is not designed to be listened to with headphones and be dissected as traditional music, it is designed to have heavy beat influence and repetition to make it suitable for the dancefloor, where people are not making analysis, just groovin' out naturally or pumped with drugs or alcohol. No disrespect for those who are more serious about their compositional skills because there is innovation in electronic music that extends beyond four on the floor and a few choice loops but their are definately those 2 different camps, those making music for the dancefloor and those making interesting electronic compositions - many people try and judge someone like the Chemical Brothers say, for their (lack of) composition skill, when all they claim to be are 2 DJ's who work with sampling and throw the odd element of their own into the mix. Their aim is to get people up and dancing, not to have them sip cognac in their lazy boy recliner with a cigar, headphones and a notepad, trying to quote them and interpret the meaning of their music as they might a piece of classical music, etc.
Tudris	Date: October 3, 2006 @ 10:54 AM Well put. I understand that much of what I'm talking about isn't really considered important to the majority of electronic compositions, but there certainly have been artists which have done it, and I suppose that's the "camp" I'm striving to find out more about.
leedsquietman	Date: October 3, 2006 @ 2:37 PM No, the quest for knowledge is good, knowledge = power. I have dabbled in electronica but I am not a purist with a wealth of knowledge on the subject but I enjoy some of the artists you mention and others such as The Orb and also early electronic music such as Kraftwerk, vangelis or Giorgio Moroder etc. I'm surprised that more people haven't given some feedback as there are many prominent users on this forum making electronica...
Veracohr	Date: October 4, 2006 @ 9:48 PM Many of the complaints I have about a lot of electronic music can be summed up by the standard of referring to 'tracks' and 'producers', rather than 'songs' and 'musicians'. I was commenting on a DnB song here at DMusic once, and I said something about how I thought the chord progression was lacking. The response to my comment was that "it's drum & bass, who cares about the chords?" (paraphrased). I think if you make music, you should make music, not fodder. There's just as much fodder in non-electronic genres, but I guess because of the ubiquity of electronic music on the internet, it's easier to get that fodder heard than it is to get cookie-cutter hard rock or pop heard.
plungerboy	Date: October 4, 2006 @ 10:18 PM It's a bit of a shame that the music is so easy to make, and that any idiot can start making electronic music by just clicking away, but on the other hand, thats how I started. The point being that not everyone has talent, and much fewer actually have the stubborn vigour of continuing to learn and gain skill. I started out making atonal mixes of everything that "sounded cool"(but turned out to sound horrible), and today I'm still learning. The problem with jumping in on different time signatures and such is that you can get yourself to a point where you dont understand whats going on anymore. I prefer to take it one step at a time.
evansorchid	Date: October 4, 2006 @ 11:03 PM What stands out? I tend to become mesmerized by the light shows.
Israfel	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 12:32 AM But isn't there some merit to the idea that, while an electronic can have some traditional or typical music aspects, it, by nature of being electronic, also has the possibility to be something completely unique on it's own? There are some very interesting electronic pieces here on DM that I guess could be labeled as experimental but I think they stand on their own as intriguing and mind bending musical journeys in their own right. The idea that the person who makes electronic music has less talent than a person who plays an instrument doesn't really hold for me. I just think creating interesting electronic music is a talent of a different sort.
hantu	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 5:35 AM On 4th Oct 2008, plungerboy said: It's a bit of a shame that the music is so easy to make, and that any idiot can start making electronic music by just clicking away Hey, that's me! This thread is really interesting, i wihs i had something to add. But like i said, that's me!
JanTosh	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 4:20 PM I think electronic is the genre that best fits the statement 'easy to learn, hard to master.' ... or maybe it's 'easy to learn, easy to master'? I like to do electronic that's more melody focused or old fashioned, cheesy or playful. It's a way to try and stand out among the rest of more 'serious' electronic. I'm still learning, but I'd rather just plug in my keyboard and make a song around that than toy with loops or samples. But I'm not the strongest musician so I still get stuck on repeating elements and yeah that's really easy to do in electronic.
JanTosh	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 4:32 PM I think electronic is the genre that best fits the statement 'easy to learn, hard to master.' ... or maybe it's 'easy to learn, easy to master'? I like to do electronic that's more melody focused or old fashioned, cheesy or playful. It's a way to try and stand out among the rest of more 'serious' electronic. I'm still learning, but I'd rather just plug in my keyboard and make a song around that than toy with loops or samples. But I'm not the strongest musician so I still get stuck on repeating elements and yeah that's really easy to do in electronic.
leedsquietman	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 8:13 PM A lot of software programs aimed at beat creation and looping make it easy for anyone to jump on the bandwagon and produce some beats, many stick to the presets and you don't even need a to play, you can step program notes in a grid using a piano roll, which get cut and pasted. This is valid and even preferable for certain applications, repetitious beats and phrases is good for the dancefloor, where the aim is just to get people up and moving. Piecing together loops and creating canvases this way is a skill as Israfel said and whether you play instruments or not, just like rapping, it is worthy or some respect. Then again, you get the serious electronic composers whose music is not designed to kick off some rave and has a different sonic canvas that was as delicately put together as a classical composition. We have all kinds of electronica at Dmusic to suit all tastes
Woof	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 10:32 PM I think electronic music still has an incredibly long way to go, before realizing its' full potential, and here's why: When we turn off the prerecorded stuff... in those quieter moments when we listen to the sounds INSIDE our heads... it's apparent that our psyches have their own tone and rhythm... and it usually doesn't sound a bit like dance music (well, not to me, at least). It's the sound of aural hallucination, and it's really, really there. An electronic mesh that has pulses, drones, and high tingly bits. Traditional instruments can be limiting in bringing these aural visions to life, because they're bound by the tones that their configurations are capable of. Electronically produced pieces, however, are not. Synthesizing tones and effects that mirror the meshes in our heads actually holds the potential to create whole new genres based on something that comes from deep inside of us. In brief, I feel very strongly that one incredibly valid purpose of electronic music, is to be able to make us hallucinate. Accomplishing that, would make it such a much more powerful genre than it ever has been. Since the first days of the Moogs, people have attempted that, but none, IMO, have been truly successful. It's still a wide open frontier! Well... you asked.
leedsquietman	Date: October 5, 2006 @ 10:36 PM This is why people use hallucinogenic drugs to bring out those moog colours and drones and bleeps to life etc. I don't think putting on a John Mayer album or listening to classic rock (maybe Pink Floyd excepted) gets you off when pumped full of drugs ! Allegedly
Fraser	Date: October 6, 2006 @ 2:10 AM I dont think music necessarily has to be completely creative. Some things are what defines a genre... A kick on every beat, hat on every half beat is usual in trance. A lot of it generally sounds the same. I still love it though...
starkid100	Date: October 6, 2006 @ 11:15 AM its all about arangement and production.
vladb	Date: October 7, 2006 @ 1:37 PM [QUOTE info=Tudris,October 3, 2006 @ 9:23 AM] Given that anyone smart enough to obtain copies of some sequencing and synthesizing software through some means can start producing electronic music, there's a vast sea of it out there. And yeah, a lot of it is crap either due to a lack of creativity or basic knowledge of music theory. I was going to write on here but this guy has all ready written off my whole musical existence...
GeneHilbert	Date: October 7, 2006 @ 2:54 PM LOL
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 7, 2006 @ 3:35 PM creativity appears in all genres, from being able to play a guitar to arranging a few samples into a song, i wouldn't go as far as saying any idiot can make an electronic track though.. a lot of mine are dead simple to make, just picking a few samples, mixing them together... but for some reason a lot of my "simple" ideas inspire others into building on them, in the form of remixes or collabs... Tudris is right, however a lack of creativity kills most forms of music and a small theory of music is always helpful, like being able to recognise what sounds work together and what don't but there would be little advance in any genre without some experimentation involved. The way I tried to get around making a lot of similar songs was to buy more samples (as I don't use MIDI in the slightest nor do I use any "upmarket" applications)... though I think nearly 50000 samples was a little excessive still, the results speak for themselves... and therein lies dedication, patience and perseverence.
Thaspian	Date: October 7, 2006 @ 6:53 PM Complexity. If it sounds more like real music and less like something I could do myself, I like it. Any idiot can make electronic music. Making good elecronic music is the aim, though, and a much lower percentage of people who make music can do it. Lots of people say "oh any moron can make techno/electronic music" intending to degrade the genre, but it applies to the genres they listen to as well. You can play the same guitar riff over and over and call it music, you can sing the same five words off key and call it music, and you can loop the same five shitty samples at differnet times and in the electronic genre, call it music, but it doesn't mean the genre as a whole is bad. It just shows that artist is.
leedsquietman	Date: October 7, 2006 @ 11:48 PM MIDI can augment sampling nicely and gives you a lot of flexibility for change, good for remixing if you want to layer synths or change a sound etc.
Intergalacti...	Date: October 8, 2006 @ 6:31 PM it generally has the name fat boy slim next to it but anything thats got enough multi layers to sound complicated but not too overdone. talent is the key word
2step-4eva	Date: October 8, 2006 @ 8:34 PM There isn't such a clear, black-and-white distinction between electronic music that is made for dancing and "serious" music for listening to. in many cases the best pieces are good for both. everyone's tastes vary but for me electronic music is not about how it is made. therefore i don't care whether it is easy to pick up or using pre-made samples or whatever. good music comes from raw creativity and varies depending on how the artist likes to vent that creativity. i love electronic sounds in music- there is a diverse range of textures, sounds can be moulded precisely to get the best results. electronic music has the advantage of not being limited to the capabilities of a human performer. in the end it is a taste that can be acquired like any other. what makes the music stand out can be anything depending on the artist, electronic music is a very broad term, but a high proportion of it is heavily focussed on rhythm. repetetiveness is not an undesirable side-effect of dance/electronic music, but in a lot of cases it is the whole point. creating good electronic music is about creating rhythms which tap in to the subconscious and maybe for no particular reason, sound great. it is not about how it is, it's about whether the end product flicks switches in your brain, there are ways of making good electronic music that might take a lifetime to master, but like all music it comes down to something that can't be explained.
2step-4eva	Date: October 8, 2006 @ 8:36 PM edit to last sentence: *it is not about how it is made
Snoogans775	Date: October 13, 2006 @ 6:10 PM I agree with that. I love electronic music, and electronics, software, hardware, those all are a tool that have been appropriated into a lot of different styles. whihc has given rise to music for every taste, and for tastes that might not exist yet. I think the problem is that a lot of times, when we consider electronic music, we are looking at a style of music that has NO organic element. improvisation, randomness, most of the inspirational forces in organic music are very difficult to apply to organic music. what woof said about the potential, I think that lies in the fact that groups like Orb or some live acts I've seen, where people are continually manipulating the music, have not caught on. there are so many recordings, I think that electronic music could grow vertically and horizontally, if it continued to borrow ideas from scratching, emcees, and especially algorithmic manipulation, this brings so much more chaos and unpredictability into the music, and would give it more room to expand.
EvalLin	Date: October 14, 2006 @ 5:08 AM Experiment...I put a beat behind things i recorded with a cheap taperecorder, Used acoustic guitar clips to make an electronic song, IF you play a real instrument it real helps, I've listened to songs with a voice or a guitar on it and the electronic part was horrible, but that real element makes the electronic part better, you could do this by using a midi keyboard without quantizing the notes, use a lot of small variations...I plug my guitar into my computer and use it like an electronic instument, to make loops, samples, crazy-cutup sounds.
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Snoogans775	Date: October 14, 2006 @ 3:24 PM Eva, I do the same thing, people ask me how I get the electronc sounds in my music, and "it's just a guitar and some FX"
zedsalt	Date: October 15, 2006 @ 11:08 AM Yeah, I've literally lost count of all the folks who have asked me where I found "that great patch" when talking about sounds I made with my melodica basso. A lot of listeners figure my guitar leads were synth voices or a guitar through a digital processor, too, but it's almost always just guitar and stompboxes. I've had a few people assume that the whistling sound in "The Dance of the Ashes" (lpatterson.dmusic.com) is a synth, too. It's just me whistling into a mic, then I flipped the tape and flew the track through a flanger/echo.
Bosko	Date: October 15, 2006 @ 3:12 PM Tudris, IDM means Intelligent Dance Music, but anyways, I've always loved music but was never able to play any instruments so I took a liking to electronic music, I do not consider myself tallented, I just enjoy making music that I like to listen to