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Can People Appreciate Music If They Can't Appreciate Classical?

Expose	Date: January 7, 2003 @ 9:28 PM (#1)Can people appreciate music for real, if they can't appreciate even one type of classical music? I mean if you only like it because it's popular, you're not really appreciating music. ALSO(#2) If they cannot appreciate music of all genres(even one song), can they truly appreciate music? Please treat #1 and #2 as two seperate things to debate about.
azhazhellfire	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 12:20 AM you can't debate about this. although i happen to like a lot of classical music, i couldn't walk up to my friend (who tends to only like music in the rock or punk genre's) and tell him that he doesn't appreciate music because of his somewhat picky taste. i know for a fact that he likes punk music because thats his taste, not because they are generally the more popular genres amongst our age group. he likes the sound of guitars, drum kits, etc. not an orchestra or electronic sounds.
mcarp555	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 4:17 AM Is that the sound of ice cracking? " id="29799">Thasp, you're walking on very thin ice here - what genre do you personally not like? Does that mean you don't truly appreciate music? Why should anyone feel bound by your rigid definition? Luckily most of us don't feel bound to define what we like and don't like by your approval. And to your points: 1) What kind of 'Classical' music? As my pal Dsch would point out, what you think of as classical is comprised of many different styles. Early, Baroque, Medieval, Classical, Romantic, Modern. . . which one? What if I like Baroque, but not Romantic? Where do I fall in your system? 2) If I like everything except New Guinea tribal drumming, do I truly appreciate music? What if you "truly appreciate music", and I play you some Charles Ives? Or Schoenburg? Or Cage? Steve Reich? Have you ever heard of any of them? If not, and I make you listen to John Cage's "4:33", and you don't like it, do you suddenly stop truly appreciating music? Is that the sound of ice cracking?
Cryxan	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 4:35 AM That was definitely the sound of ice cracking.
Svensta	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 8:56 AM I don't want to get into an argument over the validity of Brahms vs. Britney, but by your OWN statements, you have damned yourself. You have long railed against Association-produced recent music as being just lousy. Hence you have closed yourself off to an entire genre, and by your own argument, you aren't a music lover. Hey Carpie, that "4:33" track is SO cool, they even successfully sued someone for copying the first 60 seconds of it! Wait, maybe it was the final 60 seconds. Or maybe out of the middle... I can't tell, honeslty :shrug:" id="29802">And here I thought it was cold in NYC, but this ice is coming apart right before my very eyes. "I mean if you only like it because it's popular, you're not really appreciating music." I will throw this gauntlet right back in your own face, Thaspian. I contend that if you are close-minded and unable to appreciate POP music, then you sir, are no music lover. I don't want to get into an argument over the validity of Brahms vs. Britney, but by your OWN statements, you have damned yourself. You have long railed against Association-produced recent music as being just lousy. Hence you have closed yourself off to an entire genre, and by your own argument, you aren't a music lover. Hey Carpie, that "4:33" track is SO cool, they even successfully sued someone for copying the first 60 seconds of it! Wait, maybe it was the final 60 seconds. Or maybe out of the middle... I can't tell, honeslty
SoulBeats	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 9:12 AM Ahahahahahahahahaaaaaa! ROFLMAO And Thasp... damn... I must say that Carp took the words from my mouth. Well I don't have to write them again. :D" id="29805">"2) If I like everything except New Guinea tribal drumming, do I truly appreciate music?" Ahahahahahahahahaaaaaa! ROFLMAO And Thasp... damn... I must say that Carp took the words from my mouth. Well I don't have to write them again.
milladrive	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 9:44 AM lol@Sven's final paragraph.
Frawgster	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 10:03 AM The answer is obvious. No. :nod:" id="29809">"Can People Appreciate Music If They Can't Appreciate Polka?" The answer is obvious. No.
SoulBeats	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 10:08 AM Hehehe
jkate	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 10:36 AM Here's my $0.02...I don't particularly like blues or electronic as a rule, but by just listening to the structure I can find things to admire about it. Sometimes, I can grow to genuinely like a song in a genre I don't like, too. Being a musician helped me to understand not just the sound, but the structure of music, too. Some songs I've heard have pointless, unstructured sections and the song is boring. Some songs have excellent hooks but a standard or unimaginitive structure (oh the famous verse verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus chorus comes to mind) that makes me hate the song, even if I liked it on first listen. Personally I like some classical, but I've only been exposed to Vivaldi and such. I think the question should be, what are the different ways people appreciate music? And are you appreciating the music or the musician?
Expose	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 5:14 PM Anyway, sorry for the misconception, continue :banghead:" id="29832">My GOD did I screw that up. What I had meant to say is can you appreciate music if you completely shun out another genre w/out even listening to it? At my age, there has been a mini-war between "rockers" and "rappers". They dress differently, talk differently, and ONLY listen to rock and rap respectively. The rappers don't want to hear rock, electronic, etc, and visa versa. Don't know where I got that from. Anyway, sorry for the misconception, continue
Rennette	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 5:35 PM Gosh, I completely forgot about John Cage. I sure hope my track's alright.
milladrive	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 7:06 PM If it means anything, Thasp, I knew what'cha meant. And that "mini-war," as you so call it, has been goin' on for 30 years. Anyone remember "Disco Sucks?" Rock vs. whatever the "urban" community is doin' at the moment has been goin' on ever since Stax, James Brown, and The Beatles came around to "re-segregate" pop music. The primary music genres had never been more intertwined than in the late 50's thru the early 60's. However, before then, and moreso ever since, it's been like a battle of which is "better." ...especially in high schools. For some reason, grownups tend to become indifferent if they're not into it. Kids often feel the need to dislike if they don't like. Seldom a middle ground.
Svensta	Date: January 8, 2003 @ 8:22 PM Hell goes back farther than that, Milla. Remember in the OLD historic times they would fight over whether the Crusaders had it going on with their Gregorian chants or the Muslims were the ones on top with their... umm... sitar music? Help me out here.. ANYway, the point is that its not really even ABOUT music, its about how MY stuff is better than YOUR stuff, cause _I_ am better than _you_. Sad little piece of human nature and its been with us forever. Everybody goes through it in their youth. PS: I was a metalhead, but I would STILL jam on Thomas Dolby and Todd Rundgren (sp) when no one was watching me. We'll be the pirate twins again inging:
azhazhellfire	Date: January 9, 2003 @ 3:41 AM then, coincidentally, svensta died. and the conversation continued.
ThaCoyote	Date: January 9, 2003 @ 4:15 AM #2 Liking classical music has nothing to do with appreciating music, but has to do with personal preferences. One can really hate classical while appreciating death metal, which I'm quite sure of that I dislike any death metal 'song'/roar. Thasp, your #2 question implies the following statement: "If I'm not a person in all favours, than I can't appreciate music." I really don't buy it:s I even believe that there a persons that hate everything except Pop, R&B or classical and still really appreciate (appreciation number 2:D) their kind of music. The conclusion in my opinion is that really appreciating music has only to do with what people like to hear. The music one likes can trigger emotions, regardless of what kind of music they like. Here's some final explinations: - Classical concerts: People use to sit in a giant hall, being very silent and having some kind of inner peace with themselves. That's the emotion classical music triggers to them. - Houseparties: People don't sit, they don't stand straight up..., they jump, jump & jump. They wouldn't do that if the house-music didn't trigger any emotions. - A Pop-concert: People usually stand crammed, but they like it, because they can sing along, or light their ligher and wave it in the air. So every music and every band has it's fans on which it triggers emotions. I'm sure everyone appreciates any kind of music they really like." id="29878">First of all I think that there are different ways to appreciate music. 1) One can appreciate music when he is in a silent room or when the music's on a low volume in a restaurant. I think everyone has that kind of appreciation, regardless of what they think of any kind of classical (or other) music. 2) But one can appreciate music differently; when music results in emotions. For example: If music makes you get the creeps or if it makes you cry spontaneously if it makes you remember nice things, than that's emotion. And I'm sure some songs makes me get the creeps. So I think I really do appreciate music. I think this appreciation is what Thasp means... #1: Does one have to like classical music for that? I don't think so! I personally sometimes like classical, but not all compositions; not by far. Stil, I really appreciate music. Another, in my opinion principally similar question, would be: "Does a person have to like any Toyota to appreciate a Ford?" We all know that this question doesn't make any sense. #2 Liking classical music has nothing to do with appreciating music, but has to do with personal preferences. One can really hate classical while appreciating death metal, which I'm quite sure of that I dislike any death metal 'song'/roar. Thasp, your #2 question implies the following statement: "If I'm not a person in all favours, than I can't appreciate music." I really don't buy it I even believe that there a persons that hate everything except Pop, R&B or classical and still really appreciate (appreciation number 2) their kind of music. The conclusion in my opinion is that really appreciating music has only to do with what people like to hear. The music one likes can trigger emotions, regardless of what kind of music they like. Here's some final explinations: - Classical concerts: People use to sit in a giant hall, being very silent and having some kind of inner peace with themselves. That's the emotion classical music triggers to them. - Houseparties: People don't sit, they don't stand straight up..., they jump, jump & jump. They wouldn't do that if the house-music didn't trigger any emotions. - A Pop-concert: People usually stand crammed, but they like it, because they can sing along, or light their ligher and wave it in the air. So every music and every band has it's fans on which it triggers emotions. I'm sure everyone appreciates any kind of music they really like.
pog	Date: January 9, 2003 @ 4:38 AM Wagner ownz
Svensta	Date: January 9, 2003 @ 8:53 AM Az, you're still 12 years old right? just checking.
milladrive	Date: January 9, 2003 @ 9:27 AM lol, Sven, your recent posts are makin' me chuckle. ThaC, thank you. That's a lotta what I wanted to say, but just didn't have the energy.
ThaCoyote	Date: January 10, 2003 @ 7:09 AM * ThaCoyote says 'amen'!
lordDeaconGreen	Date: January 25, 2003 @ 11:37 PM Classical music. If it wasn't for tha Bethovens and tha Bachs or even tha sousa'a where would our generations music B. Probably still hitting stones against stones and make'n a tone w/ a blade of grass between our hands. Personally Music needs to b more composed w/ a group of people than just w/ a single producer but In our fast paced age whos got tha time to orchastate synphonies. I hail classical music but as w/ all things it is not for everybody. peace
johnnygnote	Date: January 26, 2003 @ 6:35 AM #1 Absolutely, but Mozart rules!! #2 I dislike country but I write country tunes, and was in a country band for a couple of years in northern CA. Genres are like A** Holes everybodies got one. Yes
azhazhellfire	Date: January 26, 2003 @ 4:42 PM im choosing not to reply to svensta's last post.

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