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Why are you using dmusic if it's royalty-free?

teknokimono	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:15 PM For those who are listed as artists on dmusic and have chosen to release music via the varying dmusic websites, I'm curious to know why you have chosen to do this. Considering dmusic can do anything with the music for their own profit, as your agreement with them is a royalty-free one, what is the advantage to the artist, to you, for using dmusic and their services?
Expose	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:18 PM They don't care if they get $$$. They are not in it for the $$$. So long as they get promotion they're happy. And many have albums out that they do not put on DMusic.
teknokimono	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:23 PM may not be in it for the money, but food and a roof cost money. Hence my question was about the benefits of dmusic to the artist, not on the downside of a royalty-free agreement. I see one benefit you mentioend is promotion. Are there any others?
Cryxan	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:25 PM The most likely answer (to the original queation) is that most of them have not read the entire Argreement. There are a few disturbing things about it, but that one takes the cake.
Expose	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:27 PM here The benefits of the artist is that they know people are enjoying their music. That they created something good enough to give others enjoyment. I have made my own little beats on a school keyboard in music class, and I was happy people even said "cool", I wouldn't think of $$$." id="28211">The agreement can be found at here The benefits of the artist is that they know people are enjoying their music. That they created something good enough to give others enjoyment. I have made my own little beats on a school keyboard in music class, and I was happy people even said "cool", I wouldn't think of $$$.
mcarp555	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 8:56 PM Most, if not all, music sites that allow artists to upload songs are royalty-free. If the artist has a CD for sale, either from another site, or from the artist directly, it's free promotion. Otherwise, no hear, no sell. Also as Thasp mentioned, it's better to share the music than keep the tapes under the bed. If it gets to the point that my band is getting thousands of hits a day, or selling dozens of CDs, it's easy enough to pull the songs off the site and just offer a link. Not that I'm holding my breath waiting for it to happen.
teknokimono	Date: December 14, 2002 @ 9:07 PM Excellent point. I'm simply concerned that dmusic could start putting popular music on CDs and selling them for their own benefit and giving nothing back to the artist(s), as they are allowed to do by the agreement. There is no "social contract" per se. Regardless, promotion is a good thing, and I'm not doing music for money anyway, if I was I'd be doing it full time. Thanks for the insights!
thumbtack	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 12:00 AM I can assure you that no artists music would be put on a cd without obtaining their permission first. For those of you who don't know the website is owned by the person who just neotiated the AFTRA settlement, and represents various artists in their battle against major record labels in pursuit of unpaid and underpaid royalties. DMusic is a sponsor of the Future of Music Coalition Policy Summit this year, and the owner has been a sponsor for the past two years before that. DMusic is about artist empowerment. That is why we are offering low cost webhosting, why we are in the process of opening a CD store, and in late January we will be offering one off services to musicians who can afford to press a thousand cds.
leflaw	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 12:12 AM We are building an alternative distribution system for artists. W will worry about money down the road. Enjoy it in the meanwhile....
Jennae	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 1:32 AM go it's your birthday!go it's your birthday! Ya know... I am sure that back in the old days... people played music for their personal enjoyment, and the enjoyment of all others listening. I personally think hearing others response, and reviews of my own material gives me a priceless feeling. I also think that being able to be involved and hearing other great musicians is awesome! I love to hear the REAL music out there! Money is a need and a necessity, but so is sanity. So if it bothers you..pffft! Are you are forced to upload all or any of your music? Made to allow others access to it? No it's a decision......decide! I guess I have chose to lay helplessly at the mercy of :thumtack: and it's been great so far!
Expose	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 2:21 AM The official thumbtack emoticon is
mcarp555	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 4:39 AM How does thumbtack get babes lying helplessly at his mercy??? Whazup with THAT?
thumbtack	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 6:41 AM I don't know, but I like it!
billhudson	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 11:47 AM why have I put my music out there for free? well if you are a independent musician you need some PR. in come the net and all that. OK, here is a way for me to get my music out there world wide....cool. one has to get yourself out there in some way and the net is one way, not the only way but a needed tool in the path of an independent musician. So lets say you have all this music and you want people out there to know who you are? Well why not set up shop on the net and let people out there know what you sound like, where you can buy the CD's, and tell them where you are coming from....cool Remember its just a tool, not an end. The thing you want is to have people buy your CD, and come to your shows. T.O.S.=Time ON Stage All the hype in the world does not help if you don't demand of yourself the 110% up there and deliver the goods. Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
leflaw	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 12:05 PM MP3.com would sell out. " id="28259">Go find a better deal or a better place, and let us know about it. We're always open to suggestions. We knew MP3.com would sell out.
haydenswall	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 1:24 PM Now we have sites like DMusic. When I chose songs from our CD to post here, I picked three that I was willing to let everyone in the world download for free, just in hopes that they would listen to it and possibly become interested in some of our other music. It's like free samples at the grocery store. You're already there to buy some food. We're just saying "Have a taste of this." If you're really worried about someone using your material unauthorized, give them smaller samples to "taste." Release 30-60 second mp3 versions of your songs that fade out. That way no one gets the entire song unless they buy your CD. And personally, I'd love it if ANYONE would try and steal one of my songs or used them in an unauthorized manner. Talk about publicity and promotion! " id="28260">In the "before time," we had radio. You would take your music to the radio station and ask them to play it so people could hear it. You would give them a copy of your record. Now we have sites like DMusic. When I chose songs from our CD to post here, I picked three that I was willing to let everyone in the world download for free, just in hopes that they would listen to it and possibly become interested in some of our other music. It's like free samples at the grocery store. You're already there to buy some food. We're just saying "Have a taste of this." If you're really worried about someone using your material unauthorized, give them smaller samples to "taste." Release 30-60 second mp3 versions of your songs that fade out. That way no one gets the entire song unless they buy your CD. And personally, I'd love it if ANYONE would try and steal one of my songs or used them in an unauthorized manner. Talk about publicity and promotion!
tomsong	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 5:11 PM MP3.com. Watch." id="28266">Thats the spirit. Music has always been free - sure, you have to pay for Cd's, but there has been 100 years of free radio in the US, and the widespread digitization of music doesn't change the fundamental reality that your music can now be heard all over the world without having to sell your copyrights! That should make all the difference. Music gets heard right here at DMusic, and it is getting stronger since the demise of MP3.com. Watch.
Expose	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 6:47 PM Music, in my opinion, *should* be free. I have a friend who is a master of magic tricks, even better then some of those idiots on TV. I give him four tic tacs, and he can pull off something amazing. I've been becoming good at making beats on a keyboard. He would never ever charge a dime for what he does, even if he did become famous for it, and if I became famous and talented at making music, I wouldn't charge for it. I'd be happy that people got so much enjoyment out of it.
teknokimono	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 7:08 PM mp3.com). This all reminds me of the good old days of tracked music, if anyone remembers those, where we released music and there were no contracts whatsoever. If I could do it back then for free, why not now? :) Thank you very much to everyone who helped me make my silly little decision. You've reminded me of why I started writing music and why I still do." id="28271">wow. In all honesty I didn't expect the insight and intellect I got, not because of dmusic, but because of other site's reputations (ie. mp3.com). This all reminds me of the good old days of tracked music, if anyone remembers those, where we released music and there were no contracts whatsoever. If I could do it back then for free, why not now? Thank you very much to everyone who helped me make my silly little decision. You've reminded me of why I started writing music and why I still do.
mcarp555	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 7:22 PM Thasp, if you became famous and talented at making music, how would you support yourself? Work at 7/11 and tour on the weekends? Musicians, like anybody else, deserve to be fairly compensated for what they do. Think of it in another context - If you made furniture, and came up with some really great designs, you might give some to friends and interested parties to get yourself known. At what point do you have to start charging, so you can feed yourself while you're making more great furniture? People wouldn't think that was so strange, but when it's music, suddenly the idea that music is "free" comes up (usually from non-musicians). A lot of musicians would gladly work all day at writing, recording and playing, if they didn't have to work in shoe stores or pump gas so they can afford rent, or to pay the power bill.
Expose	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 7:29 PM Good point; but I'm talkin' about the people that have music as a secondary job. I'm sure groovetonic's main income isn't from music. The best music is made when you aren't forced(by bills) to make it. I do see the part about artist compansation, if I am enjoying it there most probably is someone here to put a price on it, but I would never go into music as a primary job. Only as a secondary. Since I would have to make money on my music, I would be forced to make new music, even if I had no ideas, in order to just pay for the general stuff, and that usually results in bad music. Putting deadlines you didn't want to have on your music usually is a cause for lackluster music.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 7:36 PM MP3.coN, I figured the 'industry' aspect of these things was a lot safer for an artist here than at MP3... I still do, despite the worrying points Cryxan has raised over certains parts of the terms. Still, because of DMusic, I gained more attention in 6 months than I did with all my music from years gone by, and some of those gigs were pretty packed 8) and that's why I use DM, any exposure is good exposure and trust is also a key element too. If I didn't trust the admins I wouldn't allow them to encourage the exposure of my material on this site. :D" id="28279">See, when I had to decide whether to come here or stay at MP3.coN, I figured the 'industry' aspect of these things was a lot safer for an artist here than at MP3... I still do, despite the worrying points Cryxan has raised over certains parts of the terms. Still, because of DMusic, I gained more attention in 6 months than I did with all my music from years gone by, and some of those gigs were pretty packed and that's why I use DM, any exposure is good exposure and trust is also a key element too. If I didn't trust the admins I wouldn't allow them to encourage the exposure of my material on this site.
mcarp555	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 7:41 PM I can't think of a single musician I know personally that would agree. Putting aside for a moment the fact that some people come up with their best ideas under the pressure of a deadline, musicians, like people in many other fields, get better with practice. Wouldn't you enjoy getting paid to do the thing you love? And being able to better yourself at it by not having to deal with another job to get in the way? Hands up, all the musicians here who would not want to play/write music as their primary source of income, because they think the pressure might make them worse at it. I'll wait.
RUBiX	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 8:52 PM DMusic, like many other websites in which allow you to upload your music for free distribution is a great way to be heard, and helps striving artists spread their music further than their home town. Even if it is royalty free, name another way you'll get people all over the world listening to it!! It's amazing, when all things are considered! RUBiX
thumbtack	Date: December 15, 2002 @ 11:29 PM teknokimono.dmusic.com " id="28305">Just for the record: teknokimono.dmusic.com
Cryxan	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 12:29 AM Heh, yeah, how about that.
victorsskull	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 9:31 AM lol =D ya wat up daug=D
milladrive	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 9:50 AM Dinner And Music --> ..It's old but it still holds water. ..And the comments are disjointed now since we don't thread the forum anymore, but as we can probably tell, some things have remained quite consistent. ;)" id="28330">As people are beginning to recognize as this thread continues, it's about a lot more than DMusic. I think this topic encompasses the entire realm of p2p and artistic motivations. Dinner And Music ..It's old but it still holds water. ..And the comments are disjointed now since we don't thread the forum anymore, but as we can probably tell, some things have remained quite consistent.
milladrive	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 9:51 AM Btw, Angelo didn't write it, I did. He just posted it.
Svensta	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 10:01 AM A couple of ideas for this thread: 1. Music is a luxury. And as such, it something that should be paid for (in a fair market with fair rules) in a way that benefits both the consumer and the producer. The national health care issue is about why a NEED should be free and not based on how much you can spend on it. Music, as much as we all love it, is NOT a need, and should be paid for. 2. Once you decide music is not JUST a hobby but the way you want to make your life and earn your money, you cease being JUST a musician, and take on the role of businessman. This involves making decisions on your business which MUST be made with only a logical, business mind. This is why the record-promotion-label industry ever got started to BEGIN WITH. Imagine how many fewer songs we would have heard if John Lennon and Eric Clapton, et al, had to worry about the business end of their music more. You outsource it to business people, and unfortunately, that's where the trouble starts. Maybe what is needed is the founding of more "People's Labels" which are owned and operated by business people who are musicophiles and activists in this cause.
mcarp555	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 10:36 AM Sven, the only problem with that, is some years ago, the major labels had a slew of guys like that. Anybody remember Clive Davis (in the 60's, not later!), John Hammond, Alf Mardin, Mo Egrin (sic)? You had guys like Quincy Jones and Herb Alpert actively involved in running labels. But as time goes on, the business guys take over. Microsoft was okay when it was just Bill & the gang in the garage writing code for MS-DOS. The real problem started later. Yes, you need "guys in suits" to keep things chugging along, but at what point does that freckle on your ass turn into a tumour? THAT'S the $6.4 billion question.
thumbtack	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 10:47 AM Lester Chambers was one of the artists that had dealings with Clive Davis, I've heard stories...
Svensta	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 10:53 AM There HAS to be a middle ground though. Perhaps the label should be owned by a character like Leflaw, who can make the decision on who gets to be the suits based not ONLY on their business acumen, but their loyalty to the vision. You have to be able to monitor and replace them should they evolve into empirebuilders. You have to have a NON-BUSINESS influence at the highest level, or the dollar signs will blind you and your little tyrant will make you a rich evil label owner like the rest. There has to be a way to moderate the cut-throat rules of this business with political activism and idealism.
mcarp555	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 11:04 AM Well, then you're fighting human nature. Who watches the watchers? BTW, I read the article Milla refers to above. Valid points on both sides. Good to see things have calmed down much since then. . .
billhudson	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 11:07 AM I remember a press conference they had, I just went there on a lark. After said said what Frist night was going to be like, I stop up pulled a penny out of my pocket and said," we don't get even this" and sat down. So I hear what you are saying. But the internet gives us a tool and that is all it is a tool to get the word out. Still Pickin' B.H." id="28346">OK mcarp555, I am putting my hand up and yes I hear what you are saying. Down here in Roanoke,Va. we have been picking "Festival in the park". And it just fogs the mind how people are saying that is is so controversial. This festival has one hell of a money but not a penny goes to the musician. The money goes into the pockets of the people doing the festival. Theses are the folks that also do Roanoke Frist Night and guess what? They don't pay the musician! For the frist time this year they are not going to do it. My gut feeling tell me the National Frist night found out. I remember a press conference they had, I just went there on a lark. After said said what Frist night was going to be like, I stop up pulled a penny out of my pocket and said," we don't get even this" and sat down. So I hear what you are saying. But the internet gives us a tool and that is all it is a tool to get the word out. Still Pickin' B.H.
Svensta	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 11:22 AM So the only answer is for all musicians to get into the music biz and be a double major? Songwriter and business executive? That isn't going to happen.
mcarp555	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 12:49 PM The net is a tool, but like any tool, if you don't handle it properly, you run the risk of drilling through your own head." id="28355">Sven: No, that won't happen. But I can foresee a trend where musicians who can juggle both hats at once will do better in a smaller-scale environment (i.e. without a major label). Maybe just a small support staff/road management team to handle logistice (booking rooms, dealing with promoters, etc.). Just as you said in your point #2 above. Popular music may be growing away from label domination and into a two-tier structure, like jazz, folk & blues do now. A few super-famous acts, but most of the real work is done by small (even one-man) labels. Imagine a world where a hit album is 5000 copies sold world-wide. The big labels continue to churn out zombie pop, and eventually ditch anything else, the slack being taken up by the artists themselves. I can live with that. Bill: Yeah, I know what you mean. It's one thing to do a free gig for charity, but quite another to make money for someone else. It's like saying, "Do your job, mail us your paycheck". I was in a band once that only did free gigs "for the exposure". I found out we were getting exposure as "that free band". The net is a tool, but like any tool, if you don't handle it properly, you run the risk of drilling through your own head.
mcarp555	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 1:53 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=929035819" id="28357">And is this the future? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=929035819
thumbtack	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 2:51 PM Actually Bill, since we are from the same area, A couple of quick points here since I'm being a sticker for accuracy today (see my article on the RIAA) The issue with Festival In The Park was that they bring in outside musicians and pay them fairly well, (The Dixie Chicks were here before they were famous) but ask local musicians to play for free. The past few years they have been bringing in some sort of Beatles show, which frankly is gettin a little old. They've also had Dave Matthews as the headliner (I remember that all to well, as I sold Dave a video camera bag at the camera store where I was working at the time)and again the locals are asked to play for free. Then on the First Night thing this was the second year that there has not been one. But your points other than that are accurate. Now that Ms Shultz has moved to the county (where I live) I can only say uh-oh.
thumbtack	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 2:59 PM http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1& amp;fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=To%20The%20End&blnWriter=True &blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=False&blnAltTitles=False" id="28359">Wow Mike...Checked ASCAP, no dice, then BMI too many results for the title.. Don't know if this will work. http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1& amp;fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=To%20The%20End&blnWriter=True &blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=False&blnAltTitles=False
Expose	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 3:05 PM Milla; I did read that whole article from the link you posted. Yet think of it this way; music is{in many cases} enjoyment. Enjoyment is something we want. Something we want, we are willing to do something for. Such as pay money. The artists know that they can get money off of what they do. Then the greed sets in. Where they suddenly try to do everything to get more money off of it, instead of trying to get more people to listen to it. So, it really is a trade off, it is the philosophy of the artist. 1) If you are an artist, and you had music that you made for free, why would she consider you a poor bum? How many people in this world are highly successful that never took a look into art as a career. 2) You can make money off of being an artist. Actually, I would blame you if you didn't. Why not? Yet, - Always keep the distrubution methods available, never close one if it may mean more sales. I have spent $150 on a few Final Fantasy IX soundtrack albums because I heard a lot of it on p2p, some websites, and the like. I would never have even thought to buy the piano collections one, not knowing what was on it, had I not heard it. I liked the fact that they redid the best music of the soundtrack in piano only. So I decided to get that. - Always keep the art{the music, the pictures, the video, whatever} your first priority over money. Making art does not make you and artist if the money matters to you more then the art does. The R.I.A.A. is a perfect model of corporate greed, that, did exactly the opposite of my two last points. They try to convince you that being a true artist is considered piracy, and is wrong and against the law. Steps off podium with his penguin
bastardsofglory	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 3:06 PM Now this is one of the best threads I've read on this site in a LONG time. This is exactly why I keep coming back to DM and why I will stay. Very well said everyone!! (i love this place )
azhazhellfire	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 4:00 PM hey mcarp and thumb, i checked out those links. second stupidest thing i ever read. (the first was when i got an error on windows saying "an error occured" with no details on what had happened, then the computer reset)
Jennae	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 7:33 PM I secong that basterd!
Expose	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 7:37 PM I second my own post. (Just being modest ) And I loved that link milla.
milladrive	Date: December 16, 2002 @ 9:06 PM Thank you, Thasp. That was actually originally a forum post, but Angelo liked it so much he put it in the news script. ...I wish I had the same zest for conversion that I had then -- or the time -- I'd address some of your valid points there above. I still think the bottom line, tho, is that each copy cannot represent a lost sale, and if artists need to drive cabs while they gain exposure with little pay, then so be it. We don't create for money; we create for the love of the art. How many copies of their music did Mozart and Beethoven sell? Yet they're famous. Why? Because their music excelled above others in the ears of the people who heard what they'd written. I don't think success means selling a lotta copies of my music. I think success means a lotta people hearing it. If I make money, great, but I'd rather be a famous musicmaking workin' stiff if I can't have both.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 12:06 AM ah, what the hell. mail me yer wallets
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 12:07 AM I'd like to make lots of money from music, but shit, I'll have a good time trying. And some may say I have posted an awful lot of 'free' music up here, I haven't touched more than a quarter of my song archives....
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 12:09 AM oh, and at a risk of starting some messed up debate, if you are a musician and you work with set programs, instruments, etc... does this not mean that you 'manufacture' your songs? I mean, you have to make it to release it.... heh heh heh (trouble maker )
Wordsense	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 1:58 AM well obviously, its not about money...we just wanna be heard.
teknokimono	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 2:18 AM Companies are now inbetween the "fans" and the "artists", cashing in on the gratitude and all that stuff. Instead of RIAA companies, now it's dmusic that's the go-between, free to the artist and the fan alike, hence why I use it. It's sort of a "poor person's concert hall" if you will excuse the rather bad analogy." id="28445">milladrive, Back then you could not hear the music of Mozart by pressing a button while sitting on the toilet, or on the road. You certanly couldn't enjoy it at home without being rich or a friend of the performer. That's the only difference between then and now. The artists are still the same, create for the same reasons, what's changed is the "fans" ability to get to the music quicker, without needing to meet the artist, express their appreciation, or provide gratitude. While none of these are the reasons why an artist composes, they all certanly would be awesome to get (mostly a kind word here and there though). Companies are now inbetween the "fans" and the "artists", cashing in on the gratitude and all that stuff. Instead of RIAA companies, now it's dmusic that's the go-between, free to the artist and the fan alike, hence why I use it. It's sort of a "poor person's concert hall" if you will excuse the rather bad analogy.
Alleagenz	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 2:29 AM Well with other sites going down and charging you to upload, this site is free and the system it uses is great for feedback on your music, also it creates a community, maybe in the long run dmusic will charge you for using this place, some ppl are in this for money, im in it for feedback and listening to creative work from other ppl, while its free enjoy it.
thumbtack	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 2:37 AM MP3.com got started, and before vivendi screwed it up. (and it just got worse, with their new limits on the number of songs you can put up, expect an influx here very shortly.) In the past few months I've bought CDs from 5 DMusic artists, because I could hear the music and liked what I heard. When I go to a club, and the band has CD's for sale, and I like what I heard , I buy. That's partially because I know that money goes into their pocket, rather than the label or club owners pocket. One of the great things about the net is that you can connect to potential fans that would never be in your area. I never would have thought about that back in 1986 when the internet was new, and the big thang was quantum link (the forerunner of AOL), but for commodore computers (I told ya I was an oldfart) check out what we had to listen to then http://www.replayer.com/sids/sidsmain.html There is even a plugin for Winamp. " id="28449">You know I actually use Dmusic to find new music the same way I did when MP3.com got started, and before vivendi screwed it up. (and it just got worse, with their new limits on the number of songs you can put up, expect an influx here very shortly.) In the past few months I've bought CDs from 5 DMusic artists, because I could hear the music and liked what I heard. When I go to a club, and the band has CD's for sale, and I like what I heard , I buy. That's partially because I know that money goes into their pocket, rather than the label or club owners pocket. One of the great things about the net is that you can connect to potential fans that would never be in your area. I never would have thought about that back in 1986 when the internet was new, and the big thang was quantum link (the forerunner of AOL), but for commodore computers (I told ya I was an oldfart) check out what we had to listen to then http://www.replayer.com/sids/sidsmain.html There is even a plugin for Winamp.
milladrive	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 10:15 AM Welp, while I do appreciate where you're comin' from, and understand what'cha mean, I'm not sure I see the point. :o The point I was makin' with those famous composers is that they didn't sell a thing while they were alive. We remember them because their music was great, and it was the people who heard it who thought so. It wasn't because we were told in the promos that it was great, or saw it at the top of the charts, or agreed with the amount of :thumbsup: or :thumbsdown: the compositions got. I believe cream will continue to rise to the top, even if it's long after the coffee gets cold. "That's the only difference between then and now." I disagree. I think there are _many_ more differences, and that's just one of them. I definitely concur that people couldn't press to play back then, and that most living people needed to be wealthy or associated for them to hear it contemporarily, but I think the differences of the times are much more plentiful than that. Without goin' into too much detail, let's point to the simple fact that back then, not nearly as many people created music as they do today. It wasn't as difficult back then to get noticed by those who mattered. Today, everyone and his brother can scratch their ass and record it to a digital track. Handheld recorders weren't nearly as prevalent then either. heh ;)" id="28464">"Back then you could not hear the music of Mozart by pressing a button while sitting on the toilet, or on the road. You certanly couldn't enjoy it at home without being rich or a friend of the performer." Welp, while I do appreciate where you're comin' from, and understand what'cha mean, I'm not sure I see the point. The point I was makin' with those famous composers is that they didn't sell a thing while they were alive. We remember them because their music was great, and it was the people who heard it who thought so. It wasn't because we were told in the promos that it was great, or saw it at the top of the charts, or agreed with the amount of or the compositions got. I believe cream will continue to rise to the top, even if it's long after the coffee gets cold. "That's the only difference between then and now." I disagree. I think there are _many_ more differences, and that's just one of them. I definitely concur that people couldn't press to play back then, and that most living people needed to be wealthy or associated for them to hear it contemporarily, but I think the differences of the times are much more plentiful than that. Without goin' into too much detail, let's point to the simple fact that back then, not nearly as many people created music as they do today. It wasn't as difficult back then to get noticed by those who mattered. Today, everyone and his brother can scratch their ass and record it to a digital track. Handheld recorders weren't nearly as prevalent then either. heh
mcarp555	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 11:26 AM A minor point: Mozart and his ilk were actually paid on commission to create a lot of their music. Positions as court musicians were highly sought after, and many people we now see as famous (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, etc.) did every thing they could to secure a posting with a wealthy nobleman. Such as dedicating pieces to flatter whatever Emperor or Archduke had the $$$ (Bach's 'Brandenburgs' come to mind). Otherwise, carry on.
thumbtack	Date: December 17, 2002 @ 7:57 PM Ah, work for hire....
teknokimono	Date: December 18, 2002 @ 1:40 AM ah, the beginnings of the RIAA and Recording Labels... now I know who to blame!!!
Expose	Date: December 18, 2002 @ 8:26 PM I love this thread. The flow of ideas is *spectacular* here.
leflaw	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 4:31 AM Mp3.com is toast. Vivendi is trying to kill it. VIVA LA REVOLUTION. Its not over. Its just getting started." id="28739">Ones man's opinion: The music industry has been screwed up since before 1940. Benny Goodman's brother was in the mob. Morris Levy was convicted of racketeering. Its a cesspool. Read HITMEN and STIFFED for a good history. A new industry is taking its place. The old one is moribund, and we should finish it off. Mp3.com is toast. Vivendi is trying to kill it. VIVA LA REVOLUTION. Its not over. Its just getting started.
OmegaDaemon	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 4:55 AM mp3.com ect..." id="28743">the calm before the storm leflaw? you of all people probably know the law most of all, and you probably have a better grasp of understanding of what is really taking place with the RIAA and mp3.com ect...
billhudson	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 10:14 AM I hear ya Lelaw, god all theses stories we musicians have been hearing for years. The thing is now, people are coming out saying saying public what has been going on for ever and a day. At the end of the day people out there are really learning whats going on and the king now stands there without his rope on for all to see. Still Pickin' B.H.
billhudson	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 10:27 AM And tack, well here is some more detail...when I frist got here and learned that FESTIVAL IN THE PARK and ROANOKE FRIST NIGHT did not pay the musicians except, big name acts and the people doing the festival. I could not belive it. After a while and asking musicians they would go,"Well what can we do?". I asked the local musicians union, same thing. So what I started to do was get everyone off their ass and doing something. We even had a press conf. and ya know what, the press did not know about it,lol. So like alot of things we educated the public and let them make their own way to chose if they want to support it or not. And guess what....they have been going down hill and I always said it would take a while, good thing do. Still Pickin' B.H." id="28761">OK,mccarp, yes I can tell you some folks don't even" get it". They just look at you and say, "You want to get Payed?" And tack, well here is some more detail...when I frist got here and learned that FESTIVAL IN THE PARK and ROANOKE FRIST NIGHT did not pay the musicians except, big name acts and the people doing the festival. I could not belive it. After a while and asking musicians they would go,"Well what can we do?". I asked the local musicians union, same thing. So what I started to do was get everyone off their ass and doing something. We even had a press conf. and ya know what, the press did not know about it,lol. So like alot of things we educated the public and let them make their own way to chose if they want to support it or not. And guess what....they have been going down hill and I always said it would take a while, good thing do. Still Pickin' B.H.
bastardsofglory	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 2:39 PM todays youth are getting a bit smarter (i believe) about what's out there. they are realizing there is a whole other world of music that exists beyond MTV and VH1 or Rolling Stone magazine. that world belongs to us :) i think we can get paid, it's up to us (the independent musician) to take care of that part of it. it's like owning a small business: you set up the venue (website), provide the product, advertise it, sell it, do the books, etc. dmusic helps advertise it. the very design of this site advertises the music and the artist. it goes 1 step further and gives you a means of communicating real time with the artists. ok, so you all now i'm a total advocate of this site and i'm beginning to sound like i'm selling it to those i don't need to sell it to. the point i'm making is the word will travel to the masses. as thumbtack put it "prepare for an influx here very shortly". the more artists who discover DMusic, the faster the word will travel. eventually we'll gain the upper hand. as bill says, "Still Pickin'" " id="28775">my .02 the monsters known as corporations have the control over what the public spends their money on. people want to buy from someone who has credibility and backing and a name. it's like going to the store and buying a brand name over a generic one. because of advertising (some or most) people will buy the name, regardless of whether the product is really better. they take the companies word for it. look at the demographics the labels target, they're the most fickle and gullable. that's why britany spears and NSYNC exist, because the suits know that they can sell that kind of shit and there's a HUGE audience waiting to spend the dollar (or their parents). this brings me to why the RIAA and the labels are so freaked out about file sharing and the internet. look at the demographic associated to such activity. it's the same audience that typically buys their bullshit. of course that audience is susceptible to what we call "a trend" so once the word got out that Napster existed, it spread like wildfire and that began what i hope is the demise of the big 5 or anyone else who tries to make a profit by selling image and glitz and a message that is complete crap. todays youth are getting a bit smarter (i believe) about what's out there. they are realizing there is a whole other world of music that exists beyond MTV and VH1 or Rolling Stone magazine. that world belongs to us i think we can get paid, it's up to us (the independent musician) to take care of that part of it. it's like owning a small business: you set up the venue (website), provide the product, advertise it, sell it, do the books, etc. dmusic helps advertise it. the very design of this site advertises the music and the artist. it goes 1 step further and gives you a means of communicating real time with the artists. ok, so you all now i'm a total advocate of this site and i'm beginning to sound like i'm selling it to those i don't need to sell it to. the point i'm making is the word will travel to the masses. as thumbtack put it "prepare for an influx here very shortly". the more artists who discover DMusic, the faster the word will travel. eventually we'll gain the upper hand. as bill says, "Still Pickin'"
mcarp555	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 3:01 PM Bill: I agree with you 100%. Why is the millionare headliner getting paid, while the guy playing on the weekends for beer money having to donate his time? I'll bet the festival organizers get a paycheck for their time. There's a thin line between exposure and getting screwed.
billhudson	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 3:10 PM ooooooooohhhhhhh yea, they do, I heard to the une around $45,000,lol Still Pickin' Bill Hudson
bastardsofglory	Date: December 19, 2002 @ 3:16 PM what, is this something new? the reason the millionare is getting paid is because they bring in the crowd, it's been structured that way for years. why should they pay the little guy who brings in maybe 50 people? i'm not advocating it at all, if