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Ways to Copyright your music

perfectblue	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 1:46 AM so ive heard there are two ways to copyright your music...You can fill out a form pay 30 bucks and get official papers per song for copy right....or you can do it the 'poor man's' way by mailing yourself dated proof of your music (audio, sheetmusic etc), stamped and unopened. ...no doubt, paying for official copyright is the best way to go, but what are the main difference?..in other words, is doing it hte poor mans way still sufficient to entitle your music copyrighted?
BenRebel	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 7:01 AM Hi Perfect Blue, I think the answers to your questions maybe found in the many forums under "what is copywrite" in fact the Poor mans copywrite also has alot of posts on that subject I hope it helps you -B Rebel
sepidman	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 10:40 AM perfect blue. i do believe you are in Canada?? make sure if you use the poor mans copyright that you include only one song per envelope with an audio copy of the song as well as a lyric sheet with clear indications of the owners shares etc. You should also include chord sheet if you can but not necessarily the sheet music. Take it to teh post office and register the letter to yourself making sure the postal rep puts teh registration stamps several times across teh seal of teh envelope. If you go to teh actual post office as opposed to a sub oulet then you should be able to sign for and pick the envelope up at the same time.
perfectblue	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 1:30 PM thanks sepidman, ill do that for sure,
rjnagle	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 1:43 PM Creative Commons license might be just as good (if not better) for your needs (if not better). They have a special section about how to use CC for music ." id="78305">At the risk of sounding like a radical, copyright just isn't that valid a way to look at creative content anymore. If you want your stuff to be distributable (and I assume that dmusic are in favor of that), a Creative Commons license might be just as good (if not better) for your needs (if not better). They have a special section about how to use CC for music .
perfectblue	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 5:16 PM sweet, rjnagle, i checked out hte website, this may be a route id like to go also, thanks.
musicpicks	Date: January 8, 2004 @ 8:09 PM Perform live, the time you spend recording to 4 walls could be better spent performing even if it is to only 4 people.
Apertome	Date: January 9, 2004 @ 8:35 AM Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, merely my personal opinion, blah blah blah. A Creative Commons License is NOT a replacement for copyright. In fact, it is based on copyright law. Using a Creative Commons license is meaningless if you cannot prove you own the copyright to the material you are licensing. The primary reason to register a copyright on your music (or do the poor man's copyright) is to prove you own the material. In order to license something, you have to have the right to license it (i.e. own the copyright). Creative Commons is way of GIVING UP some of your rights under copyright while maintaining some control. It does nothing whatsoever to help you defend your copyright, which is necessary for the license to have any meaning. Think of it this way: if someone comes along and says that in fact THEY made your song, you need a way to prove they're lying. If you have a registered copyright, you've covered your ass. If you mailed it to yourself, you can at least say, "I had this in my possession on the date stamped on the envelope." If you use a Creative Commons License only, you have no proof of ownership whatsoever. If the asshole claiming your song can make a more convincing argument than you can, as far as a court is concerned, you never had the right to license the material in the first place.
Arthen	Date: January 9, 2004 @ 9:20 AM Good call Mux
sqrlcub	Date: January 12, 2004 @ 4:36 PM "so ive heard there are two ways to copyright your music...You can fill out a form pay 30 bucks and get official papers per song for copy right." This is true but you can also fill out the paperwork to copyright groups of songs in an album format. I think it is actually 35 bucks now. You should fill out the AP forms (artist forms I believe). (http://www.copyright.gov/forms/formpai.pdf) beware PDF. Fill out the pdf in the link and send it on over to the copyright office. It usually takes about 6 months though. "or you can do it the 'poor man's' way by mailing yourself dated proof of your music (audio, sheetmusic etc), stamped and unopened." You can do this too but it is kinda iffy and doesn't always hold up in courts. I don't have current cites for this but it was just some information given to me by a copyright lawyer. Basically this just puts a time stamp on what you sent over which may become an issue if you ever have to protect it but it is much better to shell out the 30-40 bucks and copyright the entire album rather than on a song by song basis.
JByron	Date: January 12, 2004 @ 6:08 PM OK - mailing an envelope to yourself will not mean anything to a U.S. court. 1. It proves nothing. Let's say I like one of your tunes I copy it in my own hand and put it in one of the 52 empty unsealed postmarked envelopes sitting in my drawer that I mailed to myself 12 years ago; I seal it up and use it in court Proves nothing. 2. U. S. copyright law requires registration to sue anybody for copyright infringement. This requirement has recently been affirmed in at least two district courts. And if you register after infringement in order to sue, you will only get actual damages, not statutory damaged like the RIAA threatens to sue for. If your work means much to you register it.
sepidman	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 1:14 AM JByron, that is why you REGISTER the letters at the post office. The letter then has to be sealed and have the postal clerk use the rubber "Registration" stamp and stamp the seal multiple times. The postal stamp still goes on the top right on the front as always and would of course be postmarked on the standard way. You then pick up and SIGN for the registered letter. That way you have documented evidence of the registration, and so does the post office, a federal institution.
JByron	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 12:20 PM What if I steam open the other seam in the envelope? What if the bottom seam in an envelope was only double-sided taped when you had the top "sealed?" It can be done. Have you asked the USPS how long they keep the records? I really don't believe forever. http://www.usps.com Can you site an actual case number where this was successful in place of a copyright registration? I really don't believe a civil copyright infringement case is going to get into forensics and stuff. Anyway, you still have to register with the copyright office to sue. Period. Why not go ahead and do it now so you can collect statutory damages? If someone else registers with the copyright office, the presumption of authorship will be with them.
figfarmer	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 1:06 PM Ummmm. Why not just tell someone reliable, like maybe your bass player, that you wrote a song, then play it with him to a few people. Then you have people who will swear you wrote the song at such and such a time? 'Way back when I used to do the envelope thing, but when I started working with people instead of just writing lyrics I stopped.
sepidman	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 3:55 PM Not here to argue JByron and yes if someone is willing to steal something then they will go to any length to do so. I could come up with a hundred ways as well. Problem comes to money for many. If you have written hundreds of songs then even at 35 bucks a pop it can add up and if you lack teh funds then guess you are shit outta luck. Even songs registered with the copyright office can come into question. If you have a lack of funds tehn you gotta do what you can. Even places like the SONGWRITERS ASSOCIATION of Canada offere a depository serfice to it's members wherby they can have their works registered to prove date of creation. Thereare alternatives for everything. Any songs we have posted at this site are multiple registered including with teh studios and musicians that we worked with on teh songs. All of whom were paid and teh works also registered with the srtuydios, and the union, and teh copyright office, and Socan and BMI and teh list goes on. There are the dated contracts from teh publishers for teh songs as well adn ya know what.....FIG and I still had the music for one of our songs STOLEN. No gaurantees in anything. Best part is we can prove multiple ways the creation of that music 3 years before teh registered date of the newer version because we have a vast paper trail. Sooooooooooo, nothing is gonna stop anyone from stealing your work. Nothing no how. Proving that you own it is the problem. You know it and I know it. If you have the cash you can get each work noterized by your lawer as well. And I would be willing to bet that even the USPS keeps their records for decade upon decade and have made electronic copies of microfilm adn paper copies of records. Just like Canada Post. The best that anyone can do is work with reliable people and keep a good record of what you do and protect yourself as much as you can with teh funds that you can afford to spend. Better still, get a reliable publisher and let them do the shit for you. Brian
thedarkaeons	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 7:08 PM In the US, all original works are copyright the moment they are put into some sort of tangible form (like a recording). Mailing yourself the work won't hold up in court, it's a myth. The best proof of copyright (and it's merely proof, NOT the copyright as that is granted the moment you creat it) is to register with the Library of Congress.
sepidman	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 8:07 PM That is what I was trying to get at. Proving the fact. It is the same everywhere. As soon as you create your intellectual property you own it. I beleieve that most of us are safe and probably will not be ripped off. There comes a time when you gotta let the music out. And there will always be the song shark no matter where you go or how safe you think you are. FIG and I are over that fear and move on with it. I personally have heard some real good stuff here. Some real good stuff.
sepidman	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 8:09 PM Which reminds me. When FIG and I were in Nashville and headed for the Bluebird Les, our engineer and producer for several sessions, told us to play good stuff.....but keep teh best for ourselves. There is a lot of "CREATIVE MEMORY" in town!
robin101	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 9:40 PM For the 50th time: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "POOR MAN'S COPYRIGHT!". Ask Leflaw. He is an attorney. Mailing it to yourself will NOT hold up in court! We've been through this thing many times before.
robin101	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 9:42 PM NO! Not even registered mail either, or a notary public.
sinai	Date: January 13, 2004 @ 9:48 PM why not just not worry about it and let all of your work be public domain?
robin101	Date: January 14, 2004 @ 9:38 AM Because the rest of the world doesn't do it that way.
figfarmer	Date: January 14, 2004 @ 1:02 PM I'll go along with the "just don't worry about it" part, but not the "let all of your work be public domain". 'Just don't worry about it and head for the court house when you need to' would sound sensible to me. Otherwise you might spend all your time fretting instead of fretting.[Sorry, that was a pun. They just happen, eh? Fretting(Worrying) and fretting(Working the fret board on your guitar) are spelled the same. I'll try not to let it happen again.]
TameasDust	Date: January 14, 2004 @ 2:19 PM as for poormans copyright ... was discussed here http://www.dmusic.com/forum/copyright/4075#21 have a nice day
sinai	Date: January 14, 2004 @ 3:43 PM
dennytate	Date: January 15, 2004 @ 12:33 PM They want our money mon mon :money: yes they do. 35 bucks now to copyright a song or group of songs now. Oh well !! Some of my songs are LOC copy- and then some are poor mans way, but i think the professional way holds up in court better.
mawcs	Date: January 15, 2004 @ 2:43 PM ... darn N/A ...
robin101	Date: January 15, 2004 @ 11:09 PM There are NO "poor mans" ways. Check the 1981 laws.
geetarman	Date: January 16, 2004 @ 9:23 AM It's the best 35 dollars you will ever spend! Here's the deal: Title the cd, tape whatever: "Best of ________ 2004" Fill in the blank with your name. Now, number the copyright form 1-10 (granted you have 10 songs you wish to send in) 1. New Day 2. Boo Hoo 3. Whatever 4. etc... Now, for $35.00 you have copyrighted 10 songs. Trust me. You will feel sick if a song ever hits the charts and half of it is your material. That $35.00 will seem like a million dollar investment. And, itemized, that's only $3.50 per song! No army of attorney's can fight this fact. AND Copyright begins the DAY the package is sent. NOT when they receive it or process it! Let's say you are watching American Idol and they rip into a soundtrack song as they go to a commercial break. You ears perk up, your stomach get queezy, you brain is electrically charged and you think, Hey! I wrote that! Who ya gonna call...mom, dad, dmusic, me? your entertainment attorney??? Can I buy a vowel