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Stop the cruel seal slaughter

szadawn	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 3:07 PM Today the Newfoundland & Labrador seal killers are given full support by the Canadian government to kill half a million seals. This must end NOW! Be informed: harpseals.org/hunt seashepherd.org/seals ifaw.org foklar.gen.tr Write to 1. Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper 80 Wellington St., Ottawa, ON K1A 0A2 2. Minister of Fisheries & Oceans, Loyola Hearn 835 Topsail Road Suite 206 Mount Pearl Newfoundland & Labrador A1N 3J6 3. Premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams Confederation Building, East Block PO Box 8700 ST. John's, NL A1B 4J6 Tell them that you are informed of the issues and that you are outraged at the cruel slaughter - the largest marine slaughter in the world - and that you want it to end. Threaten to boycott Canadian Fish products until the seal slaughter ends.
szadawn	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 3:12 PM www.harpseals.org/hunt www.seashepherd.org/seals www.ifaw.org www.foklar.gen.tr
shadowself	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 7:34 PM I ignore any site that shows a big pic of a white coat with its sad eyes. Killing white coats has been illegal since the 80s. The more you know. Since no argument for the other side was presented, allow me: Myth #1: The Canadian government allows sealers to kill whitecoat seals. Reality: The image of the whitecoat harp seal is used prominently by seal hunt opponents. This image gives the false impression that vulnerable seal pups are targeted by sealers during the commercial hunt. The hunting of harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks) is illegal and has been since 1987. Marine Mammal Regulations prohibit the trade, sale or barter of the fur of these pups. Furthermore, adult seals cannot be harvested when they are in breeding or birthing grounds and younger seals must be weaned, self-reliant and independent. Myth #2: Seals are being skinned alive. Reality: A 2002 independent veterinarians’ report published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal and numerous reports mentioned by the Malouf Commission (1987) indicate that this is not true. Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active – even after death. This reflex gives the false impression that the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead – similar to the reflex in chickens. Myth #3: The club – or hakapik – is a barbaric and inhumane tool that has no place in today’s world. Reality: Hunting methods were studied by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing in Canada and it found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public. Clubs have been used by sealers since the onset of the hunt hundreds of years ago. Hakapiks originated with Norwegian sealers who found it very effective. American studies carried out between 1969 and 1972 proved that the club or hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. A 2002 report published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal had results that parallel these findings. Myth #4: The Canadian government is allowing sealers to kill thousands of seals to help with the recovery of cod stocks. Reality: Several factors have contributed to the lack of recovery of Atlantic cod stocks, such as fishing effort, poor growth and physical condition of the fish, and environmental changes. In addition, there are many uncertainties in the estimates of the amount of fish consumed by seals. The commercial quota is established on sound conservation principles, not an attempt to assist in the recovery of groundfish stocks. Myth #5: The hunt is unsustainable and is endangering the harp seal population. Reality: Since the 1960’s, environmental groups have been saying the seal hunt is unsustainable. In fact, the harp seal population is healthy and abundant. According to a 2004 survey, the Northwest Atlantic harp seal population is now estimated at approximately 5.8 million animals, nearly triple what it was in the 1970s. DFO sets quotas at levels that ensure the health and abundance of seal herds. In no way are seals - and harp seals in particular – an “endangered species”. Myth #6: The seal hunt provides such low economic return for sealers that it is not an economically viable industry. Reality: The 2005 seal hunt was one of the most profitable in memory. Given favourable market conditions in 2005, the landed value of the harp seal hunt exceeded $16.5 million. Seals are a significant source of income for some individual sealers and for thousands of families in Eastern Canada at a time of year when other fishing options are limited at best, in many remote, coastal communities. Sealing also creates employment opportunities for buying and processing plants. Myth #7: Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) provides subsidies for the seal hunt. Reality: DFO does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Even before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal. In fact, government has provided much less subsidization to the sealing industry than recommended by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing. Myth #8: The seal hunt is loosely monitored and DFO doesn’t punish illegal hunting activity or practices. Reality: The seal hunt is closely monitored and tightly regulated. Fishery Officers conduct surveillance of the hunt by means of aerial patrols, surface (vessel) patrols, dockside inspections of vessels at landing sites and inspections at buying and processing facilities. Infractions are taken seriously and sealers who fail to comply with Canada’s Marine Mammal Regulations are penalized. The consequences of such illegal actions could include court-imposed fines and the forfeiting of catches, fishing gear, vessels and licences. Myth #9: The majority of Canadians are opposed to the seal hunt. Reality: Animal rights groups currently campaigning against the seal hunt cite a 2004 Ipsos‑Reid poll stating that the majority of Canadians are opposed to the hunt. In fact, Canadians support federal policies regarding the seal hunt. An Ipsos-Reid survey conducted in February 2005 concluded that 60% of Canadians are in favour of a responsible hunt.
szadawn	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 7:48 PM It never ceases to amaze me how the bloodthirsty attempt to justify violent, painful slaughter. Culling the seals is a despicable act against the environment's delicately balanced ecosystem. It is a shameful primitive practice that should have ended long ago. The moronic killers are the illiterate, rural, trailor park boy types who want to top off their welfare cheques. They need psychiatric help is what the underlying issue is just as any pedophile or violent serial killer needs help. The seal slaughter is only 'economically viable' as long as the seedy types who buy seal products keep being the seedy low-lying scum that they are feeding into an industry of violent, painful death.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 9:11 PM I'm Canadian and I say that there is a point to both sides of the argument. 1) I am an animal lover and hate cruelty to animals, so personally I wish it would all stop. Iy does seem cruel and inhumane in this age but Newfoundland and Labrador is like a place that time forgot - most people still live off the land, or rely on fisheries and hunting to survive and earn a living, this is not a place to find metrosexuals sipping skinny lattes... 2) I do not live in the areas where this occurs, don't know enough about the economics and the cultural situation. What I do think is that the government need to invest in something else in those areas so that people don't need to rely on killing animals. That said, I've also read and heard that without some form of controlled cull, the whole eco-system is threatened by seal over population. 3) Don't get me wrong - I love the beatles and admire McCartney as an artist and musician. I know Macca is probably trying to do good, but if I were a fisherman or seal hunter in Newfoundland ekeing out a living in a harsh environment, where many fishermen and seal hunters don't make it home every year, shorn of most convenience and comforts of everyday city life, it would frankly p*$$ me right off that some billionaire from a foreign country with several mansions and expensive luxury cars etc. would criticize my lifestyle, culture and country and threaten my ability to put some food on the table. Maybe Macca can pay all the hunters salaries for the year not to kill the seals if he feels so strongly about it - I'm sure they'd rather not have to risk treacherous weather and dangerous seas every day to earn a living. Paul McCartney and cronies should stick to banning landmines.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 25, 2006 @ 9:17 PM btw - the number of seals allowed to be culled is 300,000 not 500,000 from an estimated population of several million. As said before, I'm sure the hunters would gladly stop if they could make a living in a different way, so maybe a more effective campaign would be to bring money and alternative jobs to the ares...
szadawn	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 1:03 AM In my letters to our 'leaders' I ask what amount of money are we talking about that it would take to stop the primitive senseless slaughter? Money and PR are the only concepts that the government understands especially the conservative currently in office. Speak to them in their own language and possibly we can make real change by convincing the decision makers of the wisdom of putting in place a program whereby those who are now out there slaughtering the seals for economic profit may have in their by now bloodstained hands the equivalent amount gained from the sale of seal parts. Yes,buy them off. I suspect that McCarthy has already paid a sum towards ending the slaughter but not certain how the money has been managed. If the 'de-mythifying' game of lobbing statistics and quota figures back and forth can't convince me then I doubt it will shut-up others who also wish for a less bloody seal-pup-nursing spring season. The species can't be both at risk of extinction as well as over-populated, can it? We must look towards other means of a more humane orientation. Saying it's an age-old custom doesn't cut it. That's like saying it's still OK to stone wives for allegations of adultery or that child sacrifice is the democratizing policy that it once was for the Carthaginians. Just end the slaughtering now and by doing so we can leave a worthwhile legacy on this hapless earth.
szadawn	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 1:11 AM Look at what the farmers in Texas are doing to control the pesky groundhogs that damage their fields. They vacuum up the groundhogs and re-locate them to an area where they aren't a bother to anyone. Perhaps a groundhog doesn't have the sale value of a seal but it's the beginning of initiatives like those of these farmers to whom the groundhog is a mortal enemy that we must attain to in order to find a mutually agreeable end to bloodshed.
szadawn	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 1:19 AM Look at what the farmers in Texas are doing to control the pesky groundhogs that damage their fields. They vacuum up the groundhogs and re-locate them to an area where they aren't a bother to anyone. Perhaps a groundhog doesn't have the sale value of a seal but it's the beginning of initiatives like those of these farmers to whom the groundhog is a mortal enemy that we must attain to in order to find a mutually agreeable end to bloodshed.
sinai	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 5:56 AM i think the easiest way to deal with this humanely is to kill a couple billion people... there's just to fucking many of us.
sinai	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 5:57 AM and btw, how many people thought of me when they saw the thread heading? just wanna gauge how popular i am
GeneHilbert	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 11:29 AM I still prefer to eat them raw.... now where's my coat.....
imemine	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 11:51 AM Sinai!!!--- Raises hand!
K3VIN	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 2:57 PM there is no real difference between newfoundland and anyowhere else in canada....
desiderata	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 8:00 PM szadawn: "They need psychiatric help is what the underlying issue is just as any pedophile or violent serial killer needs help." For the record, I completely disregard the rantings of anyone who compares the sexual abuse of a child to the clubbing of some seals.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 8:43 PM Exactly. Where will this all end - cowboys need psychiatric help because they raise cattle for human consumption and profit, carrot farmers for selling defenseless carrots to be sliced up in kitchens???? Look szadawn I agree that it seems cruel to kill seals and I would prefer it to end but you don't have the right to condemn an entire culture for living the way they do, I'm sure they'd rather have nice office jobs and sip lattes but they don't exist and a man has to make a buck. Comparing killing a seal to killing a human is like comparing apples to err. woolly mammoths, it is neither here nor there.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 8:53 PM C'mon K3, most people in Toronto and WInnipeg and Calgary etc. don't rely on living off the land or fishing to earn a crust - many people in Newfoundland&Labrador have that - I've been to Newfoundland and it's an incredibly beautiful place but it is like the land that time forgot in most towns except, perhaps for St. Johns. The average annual income in Newfoundland is 14,000 dollars per year, compared to 52,000 dollars in Toronto. You can buy a mansion for 200,000 dollars in Newfoundland, you can buy a parking space for that in Vancouver or Toronto !! Also you won't find all the metrosexual latte sipping people who spend a fortune on designer handbags and lakefront condos in Newfoundland, plus it has much less of a multi-cultural feel as most immigration occurs in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.
K3VIN	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 8:54 PM common stereotypes say they live off the land, i dont think they really do, i saw some video where these guys said it was the same. A lot of people there never have fished in there life.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 9:33 PM We are friends with 3 newfies and they are proud to say they live off the land and have relatives that are fisherman - they should know best, seeing as they lived there for 45 years and only moved to Ontario in 2001. It's not a case of stereotyping, of course not everybody fishes or lives off the land - but fisheries are the number one industry in NL and that is a simple fact... I'm not trying to insult anyone, my friends from NL are proud to be hard working people and their roots.
DeadraveN	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 9:47 PM Desiderata- A-fucking-men! not to be too harsh or insensitive here.. but they're just fucking seals!!! they're not even endangered... all over the world ther are millions of things happening that are wayyy worse than some damn seals getting clubbed to death, I'm sure you could find something more worthwhile to protest.
K3VIN	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 9:50 PM the world is fucked up, for sure, something more worthwhile? let me question something really, who decides whats worth something or not, humans make too many choices, humans are blah blah blah, humans are the worse thing this world could ever have and theirs nothing we are gonna do to change that. Cuase even protesters walk on roads we paved.
K3VIN	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 9:52 PM What i mean is, who are we too put ourselves above anything when we are no higher then the mindless diseases that kill us.
TameasDust	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 11:39 PM all of Shadowself's points are true ... if other countries dunna like it they can bugger off rules out to 200 miles
imemine	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 11:51 PM Bugger: Bugger is an expletive used in vernacular British English, Australian English and New Zealand English. When used in context it still retains its original meaning, implying sodomy; specifically, anal sex.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 26, 2006 @ 11:55 PM in other words - bugger off means go away and f**k an animal in the a$$ great insult !
sinai	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 1:39 AM this idea can fix the medicare crisis! elderly clubbing!!
TameasDust	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 8:40 AM Protesters arrested Seven animal-rights activists were arrested by Canadian fisheries officers on Sunday as the country's annual seal hunt, which has been criticized for years, got off to a violent start on the weekend. A woman and six men were picked up southeast of Iles de la Madeleine in the Gulf of St. Lawrence for allegedly coming too close to a sealing vessel, violating the conditions of their observer permits, said Roger Simon, a spokesman for the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans. The protesters have been following a small number of sealing boats, documenting the hunt with video cameras. evidently they said the fishing boat tried to run them down ... and had video of it ... proving they were too close to the fishing vessel and were arrested for this violation ... Canadian fisheries officers
shadowself	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 9:27 AM They should be arrested for getting too close to whitecoats, too. But it's hard to be arrested when you're Paul McCartney.
sinai	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 10:12 AM quite, frankly, if you have that big of a disregard for life, you should prolly keep your mouth shut when a 9/11 or Katrina happens. or, at least not expect other people to give a shit when it does.
desiderata	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 10:52 AM Legally killing seals is not morally equivalent to hijacking and crashing planes, killing 2000+ civilians. Feel free to argue that they should be saved, treated more humanely, whatever. But do not pretend that the hunting of seals as livelihood is any more than what it is.
sinai	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:14 AM bah, "legal" is a subjective term you can't apply to anything else but humans, it's only right because we say it is, "morality" as well and don't give me that livelihood bullshit, they want another job, MOVE! and, just for a giggle, let's say i bust up in your house one day and take a club to the head of your child, so that parts of their brain later need scraped off the surrounding walls, when you go to fill out the police report, just where is the word "humane" gonna be used?
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:28 AM exactly sinai... whos to judge that we are higher then seals, if humans need to kill them to survive thats fine, but even if they are stupid seals what makes it any less worse then killing another human. Survival, some people kill to survive.
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:30 AM what makes those people who died in 9/11 any more important then animals that are cruely abused and or killed in large amounts for no reason, not saying the seal are for no reason, but id rather die instantly then be fucked up like some animals are being fucked up. Lets test things on animals cause it could hurt humans, wtf is that shit? Just because they cant say no doesnt mean we should be allowed to do that.
shadowself	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:46 AM SAVE THE CUTE ANIMALS!!!! But THIS is perfectly fine, because whales are ugly: http://www.wwf.org.uk/news/n_0000001617.asp
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:49 AM ^^^ i actually feel the same way... why is it wrong to kill rabbits but not chickens... the fuck is that, just cause chickens look fucking stupid doesnt mean they deserve horrible deaths. humans control too much...now ill admit im not a vegitarian, but i dont discriminate meat i eat.
szadawn	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:50 AM Some of you have missed the plot. It is completely unnecessary to slaughter seal pups. I'm not convinced that it is an economically viable industry and no one of any moral, ethical awareness would purchase or wear seal fur. In my travels worldwide I have come to measure you as a nation and as an individual by the way that you treat women and animals. You can smile and say all the flowery diplomatic rhetoric you want to convince me that you are worthy but I determine who you are not by how you appear on the surface but by how you treat those that are helpless and vulnerable. I determine how you will treat me, how well I can trust you, as a human by the way you treat animals. If you are into slaughtering baby seals then sorry, but you're not welcome to sit at my table. I have to wonder why there aren't more offering further imaginative initiatives like the one I proposed (ie. groundhog vacuums)to allow for alternatives to end a primitive unnecessary shameful bloodletting? Stop throwing mud and start making the necessary changes in your dialogue to get on track with the agenda for positive social change.
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:51 AM i saw this picture where i whole river was all red because of dead dolphins.
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:53 AM see wolves usually attack the old, or sick, we attack the babies, everything, we are horrible!!!!!!
shadowself	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:17 PM Yes, it is unnecessary to slaughter seal pups. I guess you chose to ignore the fact that killing whitecoats has been illegal since 1987. And I would never want to sit at your table - I don't think you would want a "bloodthirsty, moronic, illiterate, rural, trailor park boy type" at your table anyway. I am not "into" killing ANY animal. I just wanted to educate people on the facts: the ones that are not spouted by a fanatical animal rights activist.
EvilPicnic	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:23 PM I'm a complete outsider to this argument - I know next to nothing about the facts, but I'm interested in what it's all about. I thought I'd pitch in and ask some questions, voice my opinion, perhaps someone can answer them or inform me why my view is wrong: Is it sustainable? I mean - do the numbers of seals killed exceed the number of seals born, or in other ways interfere with the ecosystem in the area? What do you get from seals? is it blubber, or oil or something? Is it possible to get this from somewhere else, somewhere which doesn't require animals to be killed? Are seals hunted in a cruel way, like by harpooning them or something? It seems a little hypocritical to me that people make a fuss about seals rather than say, cows or pigs or sheep. We raise pigs with intent to kill them and eat them. That seems a crueler concept to me than hunting seals. We put poison down to kill ants and things, not to serve a purpose, just to make our lives easier. Surely that's crueler? Is it just cos seals are cute and funny and chubby? It seems a bit harsh on the uglier animals... I also don't agree that clubbing an animals brain out it necessarily inhumane. I would rather die having my brains dashed out than by having a lethal injection. I'd hate to feel the poison moving through my veins to my heart. With clubbing I might not even realise it had happened, it would be quick. Just because something's messy doesn't make it inhumane. Sinai - you're right, 'legality' and 'morality' are relative terms which vary according to one's society, upbringing and environment. If an inner-city banker decided to spend his weekends killing seals I'd think he was a pretty sick bloke. But if a teenager from Newfoundland ended up dropping out of school and joining his father's hunting business in order to help out the family then that's something different, he was brought up believing that it was an upright and moral thing to do, and his father might look down on him if he didn't. 'The moronic killers are the illiterate, rural, trailor park boy types who want to top off their welfare cheques. They need psychiatric help is what the underlying issue is just as any pedophile or violent serial killer needs help.' I don't imagine seal-hunting is a glamorous job - if they could get a better one they probably would. You're demonising a whole profession, and this sounds like just the sort of unfair, derogatory remark a city-dwelling person would make about a yokel. 'and don't give me that livelihood bullshit, they want another job, MOVE!' They were raised in the area, it's where their friends and family are. If it's not education that's preventing them moving and getting a better job, then family ties are. It's a pretty difficult thing to up sticks and leave a lot of the time, especially when you live in a smaller community, just because the job is unsavoury. I agree with K3, '...who are we too put ourselves above anything when we are no higher then the mindless diseases that kill us.'. I don't believe we are (higher than other animals), and I believe that just because we are more intelligent doesn't give us the right to take advantage of them. I don't believe that a human's life is worth more than an animal's, and I think it's a profound arrogance to assume that that is the case. However, we have to survive, same as them - we shouldn't exploit them, though, and I believe that we should limit ourselves to what is absoloutely necessary and humane. I would rather save a human's life than a snail's, but that's because I'm a hypocrite.
shadowself	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:33 PM Check my myth-debunking list for a couple of your answers, Evil. The species is not endangered (5.8 million animals), and has in fact almost tripled since the 70s.
GeneHilbert	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:46 PM hey I know.... seal burgers....
kingo	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:51 PM 1. Why is Sinai (or anyone) comparing lives of animals to lives of baby humans? If you (or anyone) want to avoid "harming" any living thing, the best thing to do would be to stop yourself from existing. You gotta eat. Eating by definition means taking advantage of another living thing. Don't like it, stop living. 2. Why did I come in here? 3. Why did I start numbering shit? 8. e.
szadawn	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 12:53 PM I grew up in a rural setting and have lived fewer years in my life 'sipping latte in the city.' Don't be fooled by the myth of the poor small towner. Rural kids like to drink and drive littering the highways with their beer bottles. These kids dress like snowboarders. They have the latest models of fun machines. They are the ones roaring through the woods and beaches on their noisy polluting dune buggies and skidoos. Due to the inheritance policy of rural families keeping the money in the family they are the ones who have surplus budgets for their driving toys, booze and snowboard gear. I'm ashamed of how they live in beautiful natural surroundings and yet are blind to it's beauty and are unable to enjoy it and be with nature. Preying upon a seal whether white coat, black coat, now red coat-less, is not the action of honest country folk. A predator is a predator is a predator. The approach we use to end the seasonal seal slaughter can be laterally applied to end other atrocities to the environment. It's not like you're putting roast seal on your table for thanksgiving dinner as you would cattle, lamb, duck or chicken. The aboriginals killed seals in small numbers for sustenance but fishing trawlers killing them in the 100,000s for profit is not up for debate as being OK. The snowboarder fishermen are not lacking for food on their tables. Greed is greed is greed. If you want to lob stats and quotas back and forth talk to Fred O'Regan of the IFAW. www.ifaw.org
shadowself	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 1:17 PM Debating with someone who equates seal hunting to pedophilia and serial killing is like talking to a brick fucking wall.
K3VIN	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 2:02 PM back in the day didnt dudes marry like 12 year olds? isnt that like pedophilia? idk, im not saying that stuff is not horrible im just saying like before. What i mean is, who are we too put ourselves above anything when we are no higher then the mindless diseases that kill us.
TameasDust	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 4:54 PM http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/home-accueil_e.htm get the facts and bugger off Rules
szadawn	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 9:57 PM Oh yeah, and governments never lie. I've got some prime swampland for sale in Florida. I'll give YOU - the seal slaughter defender/promoter - a good price on it.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 10:14 PM I don't see anyone promoting seal slaughter here - defending - maybe, I think it's mostly a case of objective reasoning. Dawn, it's nice to see your passion and I think many of us would prefer for any creature not to be killed unnecessarily. Just think about using your head rather than your heart because a rational argument can foster a healthy debate but a paranoid rant will turn people off.
TameasDust	Date: March 27, 2006 @ 11:29 PM Actually buying swampland in florida is a good deal these days ... yah can drain it and build a golf course with a race track and put up some condos too and make tons of money to buy some more deep sea trawlers
szadawn	Date: March 28, 2006 @ 12:05 PM Yes, sensitive artists sometimes have a hard time using their heads as shown by the ideas offered above. Please write your thoughts to the decision makers on this critical issue. Loyola Hearn - Minister of Fisheries & Oceans, Danny Williams - Premier of Newfoundland&Labrador and Stephen Harper - Prime Minister. I'd be willing to pay a 'stop the seal slaughter' tax towards buying off the slaughtering fishermen. Hopefully soon we'll see the tax legislated. I look forward to the day we'll see an end to Newfoundlanders sporting seal furs. They could devote more time on their music industry encouraging tourists to travel to their beautiful land thus making Canada proud of it. I promise I'll stop making Newfie jokes if you stop slaughtering seals.
EvilPicnic	Date: March 28, 2006 @ 12:55 PM Thanks shadowself! 'The Canadian seal hunt is a sustainable, economically viable activity based on sound conservation principles. DFO sets quotas at levels that ensure the health and abundance of seal herds. Many factors are considered in establishing quotas. The Government of Canada respects an individual’s choice to support or oppose the seal hunt. We encourage people to form their opinions based on the facts.' So says Fisheries and Oceans Canada in Tameas' link. Can I have some grapes, dawn? Please? Killing seals isn't a nice thing, but it's one in a million million problems in our world at the moment, and many of them are possibly more important, and better deserve your zeal. I nearly perfected my perpetual motion machine today!
shadowself	Date: March 28, 2006 @ 1:19 PM I believe people should have their opinions, as long as they are based on FACT. People should be educated with real data, not slanted and fabricated bullshit that is produced by PETAphiles. When I provided this data, veiled insults were thrown at me by the fanatic. Fanaticism bothers me. I love animals, but I get a little miffed when someone starts screaming and calling me a bloodthirsty trailer-park boy just because I know what my pointy teeth are for. Just like religion - go ahead and have your religion, but as soon as you turn into a Fred Phelps, I don't want to hear it. Fanaticism like this is what caused the minks in the UK to be released - over-reaction without proper research. Know what happened when the activists released those minks? Well, they have no natural enemy and are now spreading across the UK in a black, luxurious wave of death. This is what happens when the facts are ignored. "Domestic pets and farm animals -- including cats, hamsters, chickens, guinea pigs and hens -- have been pursued and killed. Wild animals -- including the endangered water vole, a type of water rat -- are under attack. Local fisheries are threatened." http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/minks.htm And I agree - sensitive artists do have a hard time using their heads, as shown in the first post of this thread. Quit insulting me, and I will personally stop killing seals.
K3VIN	Date: March 28, 2006 @ 3:27 PM ^word
szadawn	Date: April 4, 2006 @ 9:31 PM Just to let people know there are hopeful and beneficial alternatives to the barbaric practice of slaughtering seals. Cathy Kangas has offered to raise the $16 million that Canadian fishermen will realize from the sale of pelts of slaughtered baby seals. Other propositions to Prime Minister Harper are to institute a program to buy back existing fishing licenses and launch a program of eco-tourism in Northeastern Canada to replace the seal hunt. "Canadian fishermen could earn more money serving as park rangers for high end tours to Canada to see the beautiful spectacle of seals giving birth on the ice floe." Canada's shame is also on another level and in another area of the country. There is also the shame in the North West Territories committed by the indigenous aboriginals who claim that the seal slaughter allows their disenfranchised youth to feel empowered again. "We have a direct spiritual tie to the animals we hunt and we are grateful for the sacrifices the animals have made to us." "Many indigenous people not only hunt seals for food and to support the local economy but also as the basis for cultural and social identity. ...we do not want our cultural and social identity ruined..." You can read more in this vain in the Western Standard. What can we do when there are people who love to kill and who justify it in the most distorted of ways? It's not only a monetary grab but also a purely political and vicious bloodthirsty game. Now if only Harper would have the grace and smarts to implement Cathy Kangas' offer. Only then will Canadians be able to hold their heads high with pride.
shadowself	Date: April 4, 2006 @ 9:45 PM What can we do when there are people who love to kill and who justify it in the most distorted of ways? It's not only a monetary grab but also a purely political and vicious bloodthirsty game." Oh, Jesus fucking CHRIST. It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you didn't spout off crap like that. You're a fanatic, and you will not see the truth if someone clubbed YOU on the head with it." id="212865">"What can we do when there are people who love to kill and who justify it in the most distorted of ways? It's not only a monetary grab but also a purely political and vicious bloodthirsty game." Oh, Jesus fucking CHRIST. It would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you didn't spout off crap like that. You're a fanatic, and you will not see the truth if someone clubbed YOU on the head with it.
K3VIN	Date: April 4, 2006 @ 9:49 PM Ya clubbing is actually a lot more safe then anythign else, if ya shot a seal it could swim away... then be hurt for life...
shadowself	Date: April 4, 2006 @ 9:53 PM Man... I feel like we're being preached to and as you can tell, it's really starting to bother me. The fanatic has it in his/her mind that we (Canadians, not me personally - I have never killed an animal) go out and look for the cute baby seals that pose with Paul McCartney. The fanatic doesn't listen when he/she is told that even approaching the babies is against the law. Brick walls suck at rational debates, but they're damn good at tennis. Up for a few sets, szadawn?
GeneHilbert	Date: April 4, 2006 @ 11:42 PM They'll still have them in Zoos. Now where are those matching mukluks?
victorsskull	Date: April 5, 2006 @ 12:38 AM sinai is a guenious
szadawn	Date: April 5, 2006 @ 1:51 AM http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/04/03/seal-quota060403.html Cathy Kangas, Connecticut businesswoman is exactly the kind of people I knew were out there and working behind the scenes so keep the faith. Thanks to Jonny Vasic for thirty years of hard work and enduring patience. Do your best to be informed. I'm not convinced by any arguments/intimidation offered so far here but hopefully the driftwood will clear and the good wood will come out. For the benefit of those who may learn something and go on to do great things in life I'll continue to share the recent news and progress. By creating music and speaking up for what's right we make this place a better world especially for other artistes hence my participation here. Otherwise you're on your own. Eat and be wise
GeneHilbert	Date: April 5, 2006 @ 2:12 AM Ah yes, crazy red headed hippy chicks; where would the world be without you? God Love Ya..... Stay after it kid……..
BOWILLIE	Date: April 5, 2006 @ 7:29 PM " id="213108">
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: April 5, 2006 @ 11:44 PM Talk is cheap - talking about raising the money and putting the cash in are often 2 different things, so as they say SHOW US THE MONEY and I'm sure that the people involved in the hunting will take the pay cheque without having to risk treacherous seas, adverse conditions and hard manual labour for their corn...
Alexsy	Date: April 6, 2006 @ 12:47 AM i challenge the claim that slaughter is primitive. slaughter is one of the only things humans are actually GOOD at doing!
szadawn	Date: April 6, 2006 @ 1:20 AM Now we wait with baited breath for Knucklehead Harper to implement new legislation and accept the proposals offered by the business people willing to shell up the funds for fishermen and buy up their licenses. As we listen to the slow moving wheels of bureaucracy grinding along at a snail's pace.
sinai	Date: April 6, 2006 @ 8:24 AM all in all, it still makes for a damn funny joke.
aflunky	Date: April 6, 2006 @ 9:27 PM Who knows Dennis Leary?
shadowself	Date: April 6, 2006 @ 9:44 PM He's a hack who stole and subsequently ruined Bill Hicks' jokes. Can we find a comedian with a brain?

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