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compression

redspectre	Date: August 27, 2004 @ 6:45 AM i always seem to need loads of compression on my vocals! but when i do they sound lifeless and shallow. help me!!
imemine	Date: August 29, 2004 @ 12:19 PM Good question! I have the same issue. I’ve tried double tracking and loads of other effects that simply cover up what I don’t like about my voice. First of all I can’t sing but that aside, I would be curious to find out what it is people are using to fatten up their vocal tracks and add some life to them. Is it eq, exciter or a crystal ball????? Someone help us out here, please.
EmpireDay3	Date: August 29, 2004 @ 3:58 PM compression is a tricky gig - too little makes next to no difference and can make for noisy tracks, and too much can suck the life right out of em! If you are experiencing dull or lifeless tracks, chances are you have over compressed. A compressor works by taking the signal determined by setting the threshold and basically squashing it an amount set by the ratio, compensated for by the output gain. If you set your ratio at say 4:1 - for every 4 dB going in, you're getting one out which means a loss of 3. And most compressors do not discriminate based on frequency - so, say you have a lot of high end energy, moreso than mids or lower frequencies - what will end up happening is the compressor just takes what it is given and as soon as you meet the levels you set, no matter what the frequency range, it'll just start squashing. This is how you lose your clarity and signal definition. A good setting for vocals is between -8 and minus -12 on the threshold with a ratio of about 4:1 with the output set between +8 or +10. The output determines how much the overall signal is boosted, and thus the key to successful compression - because what you're shooting for is bringing out the nuances of your signal (in this case your voice) that may be a bit softer or more in the background and smoothing/blending it with the rest of your signal, i.e. the parts with more energy or that stand out. If your settings are good, it'll sound like your voice just got fatter and clearer because all the little nuances will now be out front and blended with the parts with more energy (not the performance kind of energy, the signal kind of energy) and the whole track should now sit better in the mix since you have boosted the quiet parts and smoothed over the loud parts making for a more even level the entire time - get it? Pretty cool, eh? But, no matter how great the compressor is, you will undoubtedly lose some of certain frequencies. Try boosting a couple of dB's around 6200 with a q of about 2 or 4, and maybe cut some of the boxiness around 400-450 a couple of dB's with a really narrow q - like 10 or 12. Male sibilance usually shows up around 4k, cut some of that with a really narrow q as well - female sibilance around 4500. Double tracking works great if you can sing the same thing the same way twice in a row - or at least come pretty close! Vocal doublers work by taking the source signal, doubling it, panning it hard left and hard right and then slightly detuning by just a few cents - like 6 or 7 cents (100ths of a semi-tone). Got something that'll do that, like a lot of the lexicon effects processors, you'll get a big huge fat sound for sure then. To recap: Good mic + good mic preamp + good gain structure + good tracking level + great performance + right compressor settings + right eq settings + good effects useage = great vocal sound! Sounds tough, but a bit of practice and the application of the right tools in the right place and it ain't so tough.
spiralmux	Date: August 30, 2004 @ 10:32 AM Well, this won't be as technical as the post above, but ... First of all, try to get a take where the levels are as even as possible, so you don't need as much compression. Compression can be a great tool, but it can also destroy the sound of your voice, as you have discovered. As for fattening up the sound, one trick someone on here told me about (I can't remember who, sorry) is to use some delay, but set the feedback very low and have the signal mostly dry -- to the point where you don't hear echoing at all. You'll have to play with the delay time, I don't remember what values I've used for this, and it's going to depend on the vocalist anyway. At any rate, the end result is a fatter sound.
woodhead	Date: August 31, 2004 @ 12:27 AM Delay on vocals is cool and good , but also remeber chorus is good as well. I use both to Thicken or fatten but also reverb. compression to me is agreat tool, but can be to much, try compressing but a small amount for vocals, and if there are peaks, use nodes to control, yuor computer mixer can be automated., oh and by the way I am loaded to damn loadd if you ask me, but your not and I thought I wouild through thsat in ph well
imemine	Date: August 31, 2004 @ 12:52 AM Woodhead-Your head is of wood and of wood and loaded. If wood was of of head , your head would be of wood. But perhaps because is--- is , (get what I’m saying here) you might spleak a binding and thus you may go before your willent. And then and only then, you can spuketh thy holdings abundant of your unintentional mylathant being. But form now, be cool in what in what you may for your words will beyond you in organic happiness. And then there was was!!!!!!!!!!! YES----- WAS! That should be perfectly clear now or not or not. Or not1! Thanks you by farsis and likes your hypostistysticotic view of stituioumious compression. Granted! Blessed is he who eats of the soup!
Vickxxx	Date: September 11, 2004 @ 5:25 PM I don't know what you're using for a vocal mic or pre-amp, but investing in a better grade mic will probably solve 75 percent of the problem you may be having. Mic technique and placement should do the rest. The rest of the fx are icing on the cake.
novuselysium	Date: September 28, 2004 @ 9:23 PM A warm reverb (but not too much, just make it sound more 'alive') compression: with a 4:1 ratio and a threshold about 6 DB below the average vocal level, Fairly quick attack, and release around 100ms A very slight delay, something in the neighborhood of 300ms (but match it to the beat of the song, lots of plugins do this automatically). When listening one should barely be able to hear the delay but still be able to tell it's there when really listening. Doubling is good for parts that you really want to stand out, but make sure to research phase cancellation and play around with it in headphones and speakers to hear the difference and make a decision. Harmonies when executed correctly give a fuller feel to the vocals. Don't turn them up too loud though or you'll lose the lead vocal's punch. Depending on the microphone you are using, EQ can be important. If you're sounding dull, add a little around 3-5K, maybe 3db. If you're sounding tinny, add 3-5 db to the low mid range (200-500Hz). Be careful though, too many mids b/t 500hz and 1Khz can lead to a walkie talkie sound. The mistake I make a lot is putting too many highs in my vocals, to make them sound crisp. Sometimes when doing this I forget that whatever highs I put in must balance with the other instruments' highs in the song. It gets tricky. Burn a lot of test CDs and listen on different systems/speakers/headphones. Chorus can be good but can also be dangerous. Woodhead's observation has been right in my experience. The chorus fills out the vocal sound and helps make the reverb warmer. But be careful, too much can create a muddy mix. The more chorus used, the less the reverb time, in my experience. EmpireDay3 made some good observations, more technical than mine for sure, and made more in depth looks into compression. I was more going for an overall vocal mixing technique, and that's pretty much mine in a nutshell. Hope this helps somebody.
100thmonk	Date: October 14, 2004 @ 4:17 PM okay, this is just me, but 4:1 compression on a vocal is absolutely way too much!! i aggree with vickxxx that preamps and mics could be part of the problem, but most of the problem is definitely too much compression. imagine the compressor this way and you may gain some insight. it is like having an engineer adjusting the volume of your track, but it's automatic. one thing you can use them for is if you have a track recorded which has drastic dips or jumps in the volume, which vocals do usually. what you need to do after you have gotten the fattest sound you can with mic, mic placement, and set-up of the preamp, is set the the output volume to 0db and threshold at the point where the vocal just occasionally triggers the compressor raising the volume. this will determine the amount of sound which will actually need compressing. if the the sound is too quiet overall, then the threshold will be low, if it is already mostly quite loud then the threshold will also be high. if it is already mostly loud the compressor will merely act as a limiter, but if you are trying to get more overall volume then merely raise the output of the compressoranywhere from +5 to +10 db if you use it this way, then your sound will not be squashed. but don't try to use a compressor to "fatten" your sound or change your tone. it actually behaves as described above. oh yeah, to avoid the the breathing sound caused by the compressor keep attack times quick and release times longer. oh yeah, don't forget to use your ears. better to not use a compressor than overuse one!
hueseph	Date: October 17, 2004 @ 6:18 PM Another discussion on compression and the way it works: http://www.guitarnoise.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10324

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