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Help! Music bleeding into my dry vox recording.

onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 12:48 AM I've never had this problem before but tonite when I tried to do some dry recording, the music I was singing too seriously bled into my vocals. I'm using Creative SB Live for a sound card and I tried recording through 2 different music programs I have and everything else I could think of to fix the problem and I still can't get a clean vocal. Can anyone help?
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 12:55 AM Need more info---sorry---I gotta sleep right now---I'm sure one of these : brains: will help you out though---night---and glad you're back!!!!!
onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 1:13 AM OK... lemme see What else do you wanna know? It's gotta be something in the sound card that's causing it, right?
spiralmux	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 2:06 AM Usually bleed comes in through the mic. What kind of mic do you have? Do you use headphones for monitoring? Have you changed anything in your setup? It could also be some kind of mixer routing thing, if you've got a mixer. It's also possible it's something wrong with the sound card. In conclusion, yes, more info please
pog	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 7:20 AM Sounds most likely to be the recording properties configuration (as a lot of people often don't realise the recording properties and playback properties look the same but are very different)... but it depends on how loud the music is coming through over the track..... is it quiet like the mic is picking it up, or is it loud and clear which would make me think the recording properties are set up to run off a mix of all outputs on the soundcard. If it's quiet and possibly a bit muffled, even if you wear headphones, then it could be because you are using a condenser mic.... consider getting a mic with a closer proximity that is designed for vocals (industry standard is a sure sm-58, for good reason)
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 9:30 AM Pog is on to something! A little headphone bleed is common but I think it’s the record properties in either windows or your software. My software will allow you to record existing tracks if you select to do so and perhaps you have inadvertently selected that option. Again as Pog said, if the sound you are hearing is clear like the original track it’s most likely that you have somehow selected the option to record your output. Find where that is and problem solved.
onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 10:42 AM It's not headphone bleed. I tried recording a track with no headphones and the speakers completely off and it's still there. The music isn't clear either, it's very muffled. I'm using my standard SM58 mic and my setup hasn't changed in over a year, besides a new mic chord. I've brainstormed through the whole recording properties config and found nothing that was different than before, but I will look again
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 11:11 AM It's the damn mic cord!!! What software are you using? It's gotta be looping back through then.
onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 11:19 AM I tried a track on Mixcraft and Creative Recorder and they both have the same bleed. I have a cheapo version of Cakewalk I can try but I have a feeling it's not the music programs that are the cause.
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 11:26 AM And you’ve looked at audio properties/ recording and you don’t have the box checked for “wave out mix” ?
onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 11:52 AM I tried to do some troubleshooting and I found that if I record with headphones and turn the music way down, or completely off, that is when I get the most bleed into the recording. But if I turn the music up then there is only the natural bleed of having the music too loud, too close to the mic.
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 11:59 AM Man, you got me! That's very weird. Did you check the record properties still to make sure that you're not looping back through? It seems unlikely though after what you just described. If you were recording your output, the volume would increase according to the level set by the virtual mixer. I’m befuddled! Next.
wardaforce	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 1:00 PM Sounds like a routing issue. How are you getting into the computer? If you going thru a sound board, make sure how your monitoring is not also being sent to the input of the computer. Follow the playback signal path to make sure what your playing back is not being sent anywhere else. Good luck!!!
kingo	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 1:38 PM It sounds to me like a physical issue with the soundcard. When the signal strength coming out of the output isn't being disipated by the headphones, the signal's being picked up by the soundcard's input. When you turn the music way down, are you doing that external to the soundcard or are you doing that with software? If you're doing it externally, then what I'm saying might make sense. Otherwise it won't, I don't think. If you haven't already, try turning down the output using the software. Except I don't quite know why you're recording with the volume turned down anyway.
imemine	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 2:39 PM Cross talk? Must be a really bad sound card.
onewhodreams	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 2:47 PM I usually record with the music not very loud, but in this case I was just trying to see what the problem could be, which is why I turned it all the way down Anyone wanna come over and be my sound engineer? Maybe someday in my dreams...
kingo	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 3:28 PM Did you try what I suggested? I'd come over but you're, like, on the other side of the whatnot.
pog	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 5:58 PM I think Halaka's got the right idea.... I've experienced something similar with an onboard soundcard before. You could try to see if there's any driver updates, but I suspect it's loopback from your pc and stereo/p.a. having a common ground. The simplest and safest solution would be to plug the headphones directly into the soundcard (get an adapter if it's the wrong size and make sure it's a stereo one).
gutterpunkt	Date: April 5, 2005 @ 10:30 PM in the SB souround mixer be sure that "what you hear" is not selected in the "rec" part on the far right side of the mixer. you can tell if it is selected if you have an Icon in it that looks like an "ear." This basically has your card set to record whatever you are playing over the speakers and will cause bleed through To change this ... to the bottom rught of the icon there is a small yellow arrow.... click it and select microphone. Now with this selcted you could even play an MP3 in the back ground and all the card will pick up and record on the track is your lovely throatings. For extra insurance. Wear headphones while recording vox... this prevents music from the speakers being picked up by your mic along with preventing feed back. if all of this has been mentioned before.. .just ignore me
onewhodreams	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 12:58 AM First I wanna say thanks to everyone gutterpunkt - I had the microphone icon checked but I'm going to troubleshoot some more with this part of SB. Before I was just using the smaller version of Creative Recorder so I don't know much about the mixer but I think it's time I spend some time figuring it out Thanks
onewhodreams	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 2:56 PM I did everything you said and it's still not working right I'm gonna try putting my headphones direct and see what happens...
onewhodreams	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 3:03 PM
pog	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 5:36 PM here :leopard:" id="130509">so what happened ? Still no go ?? One possible cause is if something else is causing an impedance problem on the soundcard.... If you have something else such as a tv tuner card plugged into the line-in this is possible, try removing that and even try using the line-in for the mic input. Another thing you can try is adjusting the settings in the volume control panel (not the creative's one, but the windows one). I have seen this in some cards that if you have the playback of one volume property set too high, it makes the recording volume of another work backwards because of power leakage. By going to your start menu and clicking on "run" and typing in sndvol32, you can access the windows sound panel. Make sure all of your settings, including the main volume in the playback AND recording properties are between 60 and 75% I have an instructional on how to access the 2 different properties windows in my journal here
onewhodreams	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 10:16 PM Oh boy! I did as you said pog and put everything between 60-75% and it worked!! I'm just gonna that it works when I go for some real takes tomorrow
imemine	Date: April 6, 2005 @ 11:15 PM Yeah! -----Pog
pog	Date: April 7, 2005 @ 8:02 AM aww, that's swell
Apertome	Date: April 7, 2005 @ 10:54 PM Good work, Pog, I wouldn't have thought of that, haven't encountered that myself. So noted!
onewhodreams	Date: April 7, 2005 @ 10:57 PM Yes, I must say that anytime I have had a problem with my PC, there has always been someone here at dmusic knowledgeable and happily willing to help
pog	Date: April 8, 2005 @ 6:06 PM Thanks for the kind words, mux and imemine I remember experiencing something similar with a soundcard, and it took me ages to figure that one out Glad we managed to get to the bottom of it.
onewhodreams	Date: April 8, 2005 @ 9:32 PM Actually, it's still not working I recorded a song this morning and even with the music very low in my headphones, there was still the same muffled bleed.
kingo	Date: April 8, 2005 @ 11:22 PM Computer, meet shotgun. Shotgun, meet computer.
pog	Date: April 9, 2005 @ 3:56 AM try going into the advanced settings on the mic in sndvol32 and turning the 10db boost off....
tsand19151	Date: April 9, 2005 @ 8:36 AM
onewhodreams	Date: April 9, 2005 @ 11:23 AM Tim... tell me more about this The setting for the db boost was off, actually mine says 20db. I'm going to go through this thread and repeat every step again and see if I can't figure this out. If I can't get it to work right, what would be your suggestion to do next?
hueseph	Date: April 9, 2005 @ 5:35 PM Spend $200.00 on an audiophile 2496 and a small preamp. You will wonder how you ever made due with a soundblaster card.
gutterpunkt	Date: April 9, 2005 @ 9:20 PM okay try muting the headphones and try a test recording..... or try this unplug the speakers... don't use a head phone.. then record as you would normally... then plug everything back up.... and listen to th test... if the music is not bleeding through ... then the problem is in your headphones and mic... if the music is still bleeding through... then I'm outa ideas
pog	Date: April 10, 2005 @ 10:03 AM I'm gonna have to think about this one a bit more, but I'm almost certain it's to do with the soundcard or mic lead. Possibly electromagnetic issues.... try borrowing another mic and/or mic lead. The lead, particularly if it's a cheaper brand may be picking the signal up (like an antenna). Another thing to consider is hiring or borrowing a small mixer or 4-track to see if you can isolate the mic from the pc. If it's not this, then I'd perservere with the soundcard settings.
onewhodreams	Date: April 10, 2005 @ 9:24 PM OK... I did EVERYTHING you all suggested and something worked! I'm not sure what it was exactly, but I spent a long time with my soundcard properties and it's mixer and I bought a new mic chord, and I adjusted everything I could think of and when I went off to there was no more bleed! Thank you so much for all your help you guys I wouldn't be here without ya'
pog	Date: April 11, 2005 @ 6:09 AM

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