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Help mixing vocals?

nomorehollywood	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 9:33 AM So, I'm trying to record some demos in my $150 basement studio and having some serious trouble mixing vocals. It might be because they're not recorded with a nice preamp and nice mic and whatever else, but I feel like I should be able to do much better than what I've got now. This recording is just up until the first chorus. The effect that I have on the vocals at the end of the chorus is an effect I use live. However, live I use a phase shift pedal to give a "megaphone feel". I used a fuzz plugin to try to reproduce it, here. http://nmh.dmusic.com/ Thanks for any tips, comments or help. If this is the wrong place to post this, feel free to move it! Thanks again
pog	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 10:44 AM You're totally posting in the correct place There is a minor leveling problem - the vox are recorded slightly too strong, this creates the unpleasant digital distortion that you're experiencing on the louder parts. To fix this you need to drop the input level to the mix and possibly also add a pop-filter if you don't have one. I've made pop filters in the past by getting a coat hanger and making it into a circle shape about the size of a cd and then putting a stocking over it. You place it in between the mic and yourself approximately an inch or 2 from the mic depending upon the amount of pop you wish to remove. Once you get the overall level of the mic down, you may need to increase the level slightly when you are applying the effect on your vocal track as there is a significant drop in power on these parts. Instrument levels are down in the mix and require EQ's. Essentially, everything is down, and apart from the issues with the vocals track, which can be easily rectified with another take under a better setup, it's just a few minor tweeks that are required.
nomorehollywood	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 1:44 PM Thanks for the reply! So, I should record the vocals much quieter? They record in super quiet, so I add some compression to bring the volume up. I'll try quieter though! I should definitely invest in a popscreen. I've been singing off-axis with the mic to try to hold it off as long as possible, but enough is enough at a certain point.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 4:23 PM What mic(s) are you using? What soundcard/audio interface/preamps are you using ? Which software or hardware recorder are you using ?
Veracohr	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 4:37 PM Actually, they don't sound too bad at all. They are definitely too loud in the mix, but the tone isn't too bad. It does seem kind of inconsistent, as though you are moving forward and backward in front of the mic as you sing. But the tone is decent most of the time. What is the room like you record in? What gear did you use?
DeadraveN	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 5:21 PM You've got loads of potential here. Like the others here I'd like to hear what your setup is. 'twould make it a lot easier to offer advice. on the surface though, I'd just reiterate what's been said. Vox are too far out in front and peaking. music is mixed to low. It needs to brighten up and come forward, and wrap around those vox better. just my
hate9wicket	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 5:22 PM I'm thinking the backing tracks are too far compressed and the the vox may be added to an already mixed track (bass, drums and guit) Yeah, the vox sound fine, just too far up. If you are overdubbing to finished tracks, it might be difficult to mesh things up... but that is just what I am hearing. If you import the individual tracks and perform the vocal, it might make the mixing process a bit more organic and seamless, if that makes sense.
pog	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 6:04 PM You don't need to spend lots of money on a pop filter, just make your own like I described. So the levels were already down... in that case it may be that it's simply turned up too far which makes it break up. What software are you using to record and mix ? We're looking into starting a service for DMusic members to utilize where you can have all the mixing and mastering done for you... send me a note if you want to consider the options with that.
nomorehollywood	Date: August 4, 2008 @ 11:51 PM My setup is simply in a pretty terrible, unacoustically treated room with an SM58 knockoff for a mic, with an M-Audio MobilePRE USB for interface/preamp. Like I said, not much for recording gear at all. I'm using Cubase SX3 as my DAW. As for the other instruments, we recorded them in a different house. In order to save dragging all of the files from computer to computer, we simply mixed down a rough mix of them to record vocals over. Once the vocal track is all spruced up, we'll export that and bring it into the full mix and level it with the instruments correctly. Hopefully that covers everything that's been said so far! Thanks again, haha.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 12:52 AM You are better to spend money on good mics and pres than to spend it on expensive DAW software - you could for example, have gone with Reaper which is a fine DAW and paid 50 dollars for it, and spent the extra money on a couple of nice mics and a good pre. The M Audio mobile pre isn't too bad however and it depends how close to a real SM58 the knockoff comes, but a real SM58 and the M audio mobile pre are enough to make reasonable demo vocals if you are careful with your recording. Watch your levels. The voice on the track goes up and down and is especially loud during the choruses. Maybe using a compressor on the way in would help level the vocals but after the fact, you're better to use a combination of automating levels and compression. And Gene in right, add some reverb, even if it's just a hint of a small vocal plate, it sounds too dry as is.
nomorehollywood	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 2:00 AM I actually got the DAW through my school's license, so spending money on it wasn't an issue. I'll definitely try to clamp down on the compression some more. There is some subtle reverb on the track, but I was trying not to overdo it (as I have so many times in the past). I'll try adding a bit more and see how that sounds. Any other tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks again.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 2:25 AM There are deals to be had on reasonable mics like this http://cgi.ebay.ca/Audio-Technica-AT2020-Condenser-Mic-NEVER-used-MINT_W0QQitemZ130243950328QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem A decent quality mic for demos (way ahead of your radio shack and knockoffs at least) for 42 bucks. Or a new SM58 dynamic mic for $92 http://cgi.ebay.ca/New-Shure-SM58-Dynamic-Microphone-SM-58-Mic-SM57_W0QQitemZ280251381385QQihZ018QQcategoryZ41465QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Remember - condenser mics need phantom power and an XLR input. Your audio interface probably has this but I'm not 100% sure. Condensers are often better for studio use for vocals but it depends. SM58's are dynamic mics and certainly a great live stage mic but they also work quite well in the studio. There is no right or wrong as to which is better, but condensers under phantom power are more sensitive, which suits expressive vocalists but they also pick up more room and background, which in a noisy environment or poor acoustic setting can work against them. Dynamics are less sensitive meaning you have to sing louder into them and need a good dose of preamp gain, but being less sensitive also means that they pick up less background and 'room'. Anyway, the key to it all is shop around and you can find bargains.
Thaspian	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 12:55 PM the sm7b is an awesome vocal mic IMO http://cgi.ebay.com/SHURE-SM7-B-SM-7-dynamic-MIC-NEW-SM7B-OPEN_W0QQitemZ110275317170QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110275317170&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318 don't doubt the power of a handheld m88 as well - it's like a 57 if it were better in every way(the price reflects it though) http://cgi.ebay.com/STRASSER-M800-N-T-Vintage-Microphone-LK-BEYER-M88-XLR_W0QQitemZ230275323636QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230275323636&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318 I love condensers, but will take one of the above dynamics over a cheap condenser anyday. a lot of people disagree with this idea. the AT4050 is also an excellent vocal mic, as one of the cheapest I'll go as far as condensers.. most condensers cheaper than that have all the annoying qualities of crappy condensers(harsh, thin, spitty, etc). the other benefit of the dynamics for a home studio is that they will pick up less of your room. this is not an issue in treated rooms but nowadays even a lot of so called "professional" studios lack treated rooms. for $100, a handheld 57 or 58 is going to be the best you get. as far as the track overall, my opinion the kick sounds boomy, the snare sounds like it's inside a sock, the vocals sound like they were recorded very hot. with digital, take note of this. 0 dBVU = -18 dBFS for most digital shit, give or take a couple of dB depending on manufacturer. This means when you think you are recording as loud as possible without clipping in digital(0), you're actually hitting the analog stages of the gear with +18... some preamps like APIs and neve 31102s sound cool here, but most(including mine) sound like absolute cock & balls up there. Also the line stages of cheaper A/D conversion(the shit that turns what comes out of the mic pre into digital signal) don't take higher levels as well due to cheaper power supplies, so keeping the recording level low is a good workaround for this. Try to keep it peaking at -18 or so and make it louder in the mix, instead of recording it loud. try flipping phase on the snare mic to see if it comes to life. the whole track seems dark sonically, but the vocal is very bright and kind of rips your face off when it comes on. either automation or compression, or a combination of the two might be in order. I like the song. I think you are more of an artist than a recordist. I mean this in the best way possible, because there are a lot of people who try to do both and can't do either! Even though that radioshack mic is probably a piece of shit, take all of the suggestions everyone posted here into consideration BEFORE BUYING MORE SHIT! remember while mics and pres cost money, experimentation, in your studio, on your time, is free.
Thaspian	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 1:01 PM and as far as a popscreen goes, my suggestion is to not waste your money or go nuts, use a sock. there is debate as to whether this takes off high end. to that, I say this a) it's barely noticeable b) if you use a thick ass sick and it is noticeable.. think about whether you want the high end of a cheap mic on your vocal anyway? even with good mics I like to roll off some of the ultra high treble on the vocal sometimes. don't underestimate the power of a sock.
Thaspian	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 1:03 PM the thing i like about the sock is that if it is a new sock that has not been worn(that I wouldn't feel bad asking someone to go near), people don't have to feel weird about getting up close on the mic when they feel it is appropriate. it allows a fuller range of mic technique because you can get closer without worrying about hitting it, singers seem more comfortable with it than that ring thing that hangs off the stand. i hate those things.
Veracohr	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 4:58 PM I've never used one, but the SM7B Thasp mentioned is a popular mic. However, I would concentrate on better recording technique before buying more gear. More gear won't make you a better engineer.
GeneHilbert	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 5:12 PM You got that right, read my comment on the song page........
Thaspian	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 5:45 PM ! I will quote from my post again, remember while mics and pres cost money, experimentation, in your studio, on your time, is free. my fault for not making this the first thing I said! and to gene for HONEST FUCKING COMMENTS! HOLY SHIT AM I GLAD TO SEE THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY GET FEEDBACK ON DM THAT ISN'T GENERIC FRIENDLY BLATHER! that is the first time, I swear, that DM resembled the feedback I see when I read tape op, or psw.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 7:29 PM Yes, good suggestions Thaspian. I agree with you Veracohr, although I think that one slight exception to that theory is vocals. If you have a 10 dollar Radio Shack mic designed for MSN Messenger chat or whatever, even if you do hone your skills, it's never going to sound great. So I think you need at least something one notch up and stuff like the Audio Technica 2020/3035 and 4040 or the Shure SM57/SM58/SM7B etc are a good start. Eventually, when you master these and save your dough for the big boys like Neumann 47/87 or Shure KSM44 condensers or custom built ribbon mics etc. that improvement in technique will really enhance those big boys.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: August 5, 2008 @ 7:31 PM Other good mics in the more budget end (but quality) that you might pick up for $150 -$175 if you shop around are the Rode NT1A and Studio Projects C1.
nomorehollywood	Date: August 6, 2008 @ 1:28 AM I've used a Rode NT1A before. I'm not sure if it was a defective mic or it's because I'm not in a treated room, but it actually sounded much worse than the SM58 knockoff, unfortunately.
zedsalt	Date: August 6, 2008 @ 3:32 AM In the case, definitely go with a good dynamic. That's been my experience, too- I have an ultrasensitive small diaphragm condenser that sounds WONDERFUL on almost everything I point it at, but the more limited range, tighter pattern, the particular "color" that the SM58 adds fit my voice a LOT better.

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