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Forums > Music: Recording

Guitar Punch In/Out

AdamsGod	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 4:10 AM were getting set to record a new EP. the engineer recording us has mentioned something about punch recording guitar. not sure if thats exactly what its called but basically, the idea is to record each chord seperately (punching in the guitar) and then to mix it all together. i'm wondering if anyone else has heard of this (i assume so).. i'm not sure how i feel about this method but if its an industry standard and the end result is amazing then i guess its the way to go. any input on this subject will mean a lot!
BlackMage	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 6:59 AM Sorry for putting it bluntly, but really. Fuck. No. I have no idea what kind of engineer you guys have, but I'd kick his ass. The only person, I'd find this technique suitable for, would be Lars Ulrich.
AdamsGod	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 7:08 AM bluntly or not, its fine. our engineer is actually someone well respected, very talented guy. but i wasnt sure about this technic.. he said its very often used today. thanks anyways!
zedsalt	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 8:56 AM I was always told the "punch in/out" button was for recording something onto a track without erasing what was already on that track, the big danger being that one had better get it right, because if it doesn't turn out, you're stuck with either keeping it, or redoing the original track. I've been playing around with copying and pasting short blurbs and playing around with how they sit against each other, but I've never had the cajones to punch anything in.
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:12 AM I have recorded this way... BUT not each chord "ONLY" if 90% of the take or track was good, and then only to fix things that maybe a strum was muted or a slip etc. the idea is you play along with the track you recorded, and the engineer punches you in over the mistake! I cant even see how punching each chord would be feasible, maybe at studio time raising the cost up? seems odd, other than using it to save a really good take with some minor mistakes... or for use doubling (recording one take and punching in certain times to give the recording a little more on certain parts)... something else would be to record separate tracks for each the verse/chorus... (done all the time) although many times for performance sake its better to let it flow... why even use guitar. could just run a synth and loop each guitar sound together... I normally only separate lead tracks, we record my guitar on 2 stereo tracks one clean the other with my effects, then blend them together in mixing adding effects as needed etc. and only punch if I don't think I can re do the whole track and get the same... never heard of punching in in any other way. The time it would take alone would sour me... is this guy a more synth type guy? seams really odd to me, but hey it is the digital age
AdamsGod	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:17 AM strange.. all i keep hearing from him is that its how shit is done today. we spoke with Gavin Brown (look him up) he too also said thst this is how things are done today.. it worries me, a lot.
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:17 AM now thinking doing an industrial music, maybe recording chord riffs and using them over and over instead of playing the whole time? I have done that as well.. a song where I play live the same riff over and over and over, in the studio record it once real well and use it throughout the track (the engineer copy pasting hence creating a loop on tape.. is this what? if it is yes it works well and saves a ton of time... playing the same over and over and then you goof up... witch is cool to do for re mixing as well (separating different parts of the song like this. this I could see but each chord? unless its 3 the whole song... Trent Reznor does the above I am sure.
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:22 AM "What your engineer is suggesting is something I could consider "sample-based" recording" from over on song stuff... from smuske.. yeah thats how I see it as well.. like I posted I (we) have done it this way but agin riffs or chord sections say 1/4 of the verse thats the same over and over
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:25 AM heres a link maybe you found already about it somewhere in there http://www.musictechmag.co.uk/mtm/search?type=feature&topic=recording
AdamsGod	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:25 AM i guess i will find out and let you know.. lol but yeah, it would be recorded once real well then used over and over when ever that riff comes back in the song (cut/paste). i do trust this guy, a lot. i know what hes capable of doing, hes no bullshitter. i also know the types of people he socializes with and works with and they are all people in the music/recording industry, so i know hes not talking out of his ass.. i guess its time to learn something new.
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:31 AM it works well for what your sound is I would think it will work great it has for Empire Day stuff
AdamsGod	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 9:35 AM dont get me wrong, I've been recording for a while now and am aware of the whole 'punch in' to record thing.. i was just blown away when he said each chord/note is recorded seperately.. scary.
Distilled1	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 10:40 AM Yeah thats scary alright... I would think costly as well
evansorchid	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 11:07 AM I wanna punch my guitar sometimes. It just doesn't do what I want it to do.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 11:23 AM It is a technique used extensively these days. Joe Chicarelli is a producer/engineer who does it a lot, it was all over the last White Stripes record.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 2:32 PM It creates a really clipped sound because the punch in and out is literally milliseconds. Clipped is not normally good, but on an already distorted waveform it can be an interesting effect.
pog	Date: September 11, 2008 @ 11:35 PM IMHO is has it's place, but like anything if you do it too often, you end up with an overproduced pile of clinical soulless commercialization Nothing like this ever happened on an ACDC album (has it..? I don't even know anymore)
AdamsGod	Date: September 12, 2008 @ 12:33 AM ^^^ Maybe not on an ACDC album but today, just about evey big name out there uses this from what i understand.
zedsalt	Date: September 12, 2008 @ 4:18 AM http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-07-25-pro-tools_x.htm My response was pretty severely edited. What I was commenting on was the fact that recording techniques were influencing...um, "organic"...songwriting. Well, I thought it was a pretty interesting idea, anyway. There was a Madonna song that was popular around the time that the article was written which featured a looped acoustic guitar riff. I started seeing guitarists in their late teens/early twenties who wrote that way: modular riffs that they weren't happy with until they could play them cleanly enough, with little enough variation in timing, to make it sound like a loop. Yeah, I realize it's probably a step of two backwards on the evolutionary ladder from what we're talking about here, but I am using modular writing more and more lately (two out of the three new ones I have here, four out of five of my songs on mp3.com, etc.)
AdamsGod	Date: September 12, 2008 @ 4:51 AM very interesting article. i feel a fight is on its way. i dont want to keep my musicians in my band away from this project. he will either record the band, or not record us at all.
Thaspian	Date: September 21, 2008 @ 4:20 AM I'd say that engineer was a moron. I learned a lot by having the opportunity to work with people much older and smarter than me in amazing studios alongside my tech work in them. And one thing I realized - the biggest thing I took away from it is that, some people can be highly respected and still be morons. perhaps not even at all responsible for the amazing products that their name is attached to. strange.. all i keep hearing from him is that its how shit is done today. And who buys music today? exactly. Maybe they would if it had life, emotional impact, or in any way actually compelled one to purchase it. fuck how it's done today. record like a band. IMO one of the biggest fuckups was when post production/jingle recording techniques began being applied to music recording.
Thaspian	Date: September 21, 2008 @ 4:23 AM " id="294736">here's a quote from a guy bob olhsson, who I consider to be a genius. he did a lot of the motown music in the 60s and to this day still has a steady stream of amazing projects coming through his door. Glue is something that reduces the contrast between different musical elements of a mix. It allows the whole to be perceived as being more than just the sum of the parts. Probably the best sounding "glue" is recording everything at once in a room with great character. Using the same mike preamps and eq. on everything along with mikes that are the same or complimentary to each other also glues things together well. After the fact, about all that's left are techniques that degrade the audio in some common manner.
GeneHilbert	Date: September 21, 2008 @ 5:34 AM OK if you are into piece meal type stuff (assembly) or choppy BT type shit, or experimental. Then OK....... what the fuck - play around. However if you write music with flow, dynamics, breaks, changes and you want continuity. Then this approach is not going to be a satisfying experience - and may result in bodily injury to your engineer. Especially if you are paying him.
Thaspian	Date: September 21, 2008 @ 4:35 PM any recording technique that gets in the way of the performance is a bad technique!

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