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Song Comments

zedsalt	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 1:56 PM Ah, my bad habit of expecting the best of people has done me another disservice. I never gave a moment's consideration to the idea that to "focus on" a comment could possibly mean something other than to carefully consider every aspect of the subject of that comment, to try to make any (hopefully) helpful suggestions I'm capable of, and to provide...again, if I'm able...something quotable in a onesheet, presspack, or other promotional material. And that was my own short-sightedness. Thanks for setting me straight. I'd better point out that I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, as I can't think of any other way of avoiding a misunderstanding. Just as I never said...and was trying to carefully avoid insinuating...that I somehow "refuse" to listen to something which I cannot comment upon. As I said, that's something that I have indeed done before. I just thought it pertinent that...absent any conscious decision...I almost never did. I just assumed that anyone who posts music here would like others to hear it, and I assumed I'm not the only person aware of DMusic's existence who would likely be lost as a listener in any case where the artist disabled his/her/their song comment feature. Another way in which disabling comments could limit listens (not any sort of threat, just an observation): a dear friend of mine, fellow DM member, and person who suffers lousy internet service bases all of his downloads (like me, the only way he can listen at home) uses the comments section to decide what he's going to listen to.
zedsalt	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 2:08 PM And I realize that I've said it in almost every reply I've posted in this thread, but again, in the spirit of avoiding misunderstanding, I support the idea of allowing individual artists to disable song comments.
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 2:16 PM Well, certainly it's right that you can't please everyone all of the time. So giving people what they want is probably the right way to go, but it's unfortunate that it's come to this level of malaise and sour taste yet again. I know some people get a charge out of the bickering and flame wars etc but I do not, even if it seems like I do to some people I am here more for the music than interaction, I do shoutbox but in moderation. My number one reason for being here is for the music. I subscribe, I have 3 band accounts and currently have 36 songs posted here, so the evidence speaks for itself that I am here for the music. Several of these are collabs with other Dmusic members. Spike has 23 songs up currently and I know he has had other songs posted in the past that are currently not visible or taken down. He is almost outdoing Bluenevus as Dmusic's #1 collaborater We both subscribe. We both interact. We are both dedicated to Dmusic as a community. What more can we do, short of buying Larry out So I don't feel a need to justify posting some comments and feedback on this forum which might not be 100% politically correct or sit well with some people. Although I do have some regrets, you can't live your life dominated by regrets, you will just go insane. And like I said before, I come here for the music, but looking through the statistics, the number of streams, downloads and comments on material I posted in the last year is SIGNIFICANTLY less than material posted in 2006, (most of which, by my own admission is pretty mediocre work). I have grown as an artist because of feedback I got here and my current material is way from perfect but I have learned better arrangement and mixing, certainly compared to 2006. People like Gene, Hueseph, Evansorchid, Simon Wladram, Henri Roger, AORPete, Issy and TS have really helped me to improve, if only a little, every little helps. I have also been inspired to take courses and get educated by literature and online material from professionals. The Umbriel Rising CD would have never happened in 2006, I could never have gotten the quality from it then that has enable me to sell most of my limited run out and I know that some people here enjoy it because I sold 18 copies to DMusic members. The MUSIC aspect of Dmusic is as much a reason why I am questioning being a subscriber as much as some of the silly arguments. And y'know, I know it's not just me. I've polled several other long standing artists here and all of us are finding the same. I sometimes get into these debates and sometimes shoutbox but it's not my primary reason for being here. I would just be on MSN messenger all my spare time otherwise. I'm not saying other posters don't care about this community (many are passionate about it) but Spike and I both care a lot too, both spiritually and financially. So I think we are entitled to voice our opinions.
songbird	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 3:10 PM Hey evansorchid...you want so badly to discuss something with me, then do so, but don't use a suggestions forum to do it. Oh that's right...you have me blocked. Why is that exactly? Because I may say something disingenuous in a dnote or in your shoutbox and you might just laugh yourself to death? Here's a tip...if you're going to bash me, why not just use my name rather than label me "the collaborative partner who started this forum". That way, this whole thing will be much easier to follow for everyone since this forum topic has now hit 2 pages. You are way out of line with your remark about receiving a constructive remark on a collab of ours and me wanting to immediately pull it. I was told that our collab would be a "final mix". I didn't realize it was still a "work in progress". I have no freaking problem putting up "works in progress". But how about labeling them as such and more importantly, how about telling your collab partner so that she's not announcing to everyone on her page "ok here it is...the final mix...oops...hang no...no HERE it is...the final mix...psych...HERE it is...nope...still not it". I was putting a finished song up. Clearly you were putting up a work in progress. Perhaps that should be another forum topic...labeling works in progress "works in progress" As for constructive or critical remarks...you've got to be kidding me if you think that is the reason I don't want comments on the songs on my page. I don't recall ever getting a comment on my vocals that said "wow Katie...your voice seriously sucks...you need to pack it in" or "hey Katie...you pitch here is ok but could really use some tweaking in this verse". I've always gotten very kind comments on the songs on my page, deservedly so or not. And as you pointed out, I don't write, record, mix, create, play instruments...I just sing. Do I think the song that I've contributed my vocals on should be on my page? Absolutely. But I believe the real creators of the song should be the ones to receive the comments. It takes two seconds to say "hey, the vocals suck" or "hey, good job on the vocals". Most comments I've read are all about the lyrics, the music, the instruments, and the mix. They're what make a song a song. Here's a funny side note. The only real vocal bashing I've ever received was from you during our work on Bulls Eye. And I think I handled that pretty damn graciously if you can recall. I am not asking about the ability to disable or enable song comments because I'm insecure and can't take the heat or a snobbish diva who thinks she's all that. I'm talking about having a choice just like you had a choice to block me or not. In my opinion, the ULTIMATE song comments are the Dmusic awards. Am I saying that because I've won a bunch? Nope. I've never even been nominated. But you have...and you've won tons. Quick question for ya...is there a dmusic award for a "work in progress"?
GTOriginal	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 3:59 PM Is there some reason that helpful, constructive, collab planning, end-result-improving, song building discussions must take place in the comments of a song rather than behind the scenes - say in the DNote system??? It was not neccesary to drive to Detroit & watch them build my car, but still it gets me to work every day... PS - "The Dm User Who Started This Thread" should change her name - vocals are an instrument of their own, vs. Karaoke which can be done by any bar hag, esp. on Ladies' Night when the drinks are free...
evansorchid	Date: December 19, 2007 @ 11:28 PM You know what. It’s way too close to Christmas for me to really care what you think of me, Kate. At the very least, now the DM community might be beginning to see what I’ve been seeing for almost two years….your condescending attitude mixed with being completely out of touch with reality. I’m not going to battle in this forum thread any longer. You have my email address if you want to get in touch with me. I blocked you because of those last two patronizing notes you sent me just before this forum was started. I’m not going to cut and paste and post them for the community to view, because you’d simply deny it or say that it was taken out of context. You’re an extremely talented vocalist, but you have a manner that simply rubs me the wrong way, and I simply don’t want to deal with your head games any longer. But, I will dig up one note simply to clarify to others that I’m not this vicious Kate-bashing jerk dead set on criticizing my collaboration partners. Here’s an example of some ‘coaching’ that was sent to Kate after her first attempt on Bullseye. I’ve uploaded the very first version with Kate’s vocals if anyone would like to hear it. I don’t think these private comments to you regarding this version constituted ‘bashing’ in any way….. ___________________________________________ Here’s the link to the first version of Bullseye Hey there Kate. I just listened to your first version a couple of times. Now I don’t want you to get discouraged about any of things that I’m about to say. This was a rough mix over a rough recording. And, I still have some issues with Scott’s latest remix that I’ll discuss with Scott later, but your voice sounded like a rough cut diamond! As a budding vocalist myself, I can really appreciate the effort that you’re putting into this. Your pitch was perfect! BUT, I think that some of the attitude was lacking throughout. The 2nd verse and the 3rd bridge sounded the best. The chorus was dead on except that when you sang the word ‘circuitry’ you sang it with four syllables (circuitry-ee). That phrasing just sounded odd to me. I also think that some of the vowel sounds that you inflected didn’t sound natural enough. Regarding the vowel sounds, that’s a hard thing to teach, but on words like ‘remorse’, ‘course’, ‘ready’, ‘steady’, ‘skin’, ‘grin’, ‘safety’; each of those words sounded forced. That’s the kind of thing that I vocal coach might tell you. Enunciating perfect American Midwestern anchor news person English is fine, but how to sing and project beautiful sounding vowels is an art!!! You’re voice was also really high in the mix and it sounded like it you didn’t use any effects on it. This is actually good! It gives me a great template to work with. I would like for you to send me an mp3 of just your voice track with none of the music behind it. I would like to ‘manipulate’ your vocal track a bit. I’m also leaning toward doing some backing vocals for you during the chorus, just to give it an edge. I know that I’m not the greatest vocalist either. I tend to mask some of the stuff that I do with an interesting inflection or double or triple track my vocals so that it adds a natural chorusing effect to hide poor pitch. And I also tend to force air through my nose for a nasal type of effect for emphasis. And I also will slur or mispronounce words on purpose if it fits with the music better. Not to mention all the numerous takes, and cutting and pasting that I’ve learned how to do recently with audio files. Etc. All that said, I would like for you to revisit the song sometime in the near future and work on the verses especially. Put a little more attitude and feeling into them. I like what you did with the 2nd verse. And don’t worry about the Little Red Riding Hood comment that your husband made. We’re gonna toughen up this track and make him eat those words!!!! Guaranteed!!! Spike _________________________________________ Here’s the finished version, for anyone who might be interested. Bullseye
songbird	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 7:10 AM Forgive me for using the word bashing...so sorry...I was confused because you've been bashing me throughout this entire forum thread and it's word association I suppose. Let me rephrase. What is it you call it? Oh yes..."constructive critique". My apologies. My point in mentioning the funny side note about you being the one who has ever truly critiqued my vocals was to let everyone know that I took it, ran with it, and improved 100% because of it. That's not someone who cannot take constructive comments and you of all people should know that. You've gotta post my response to make this really effective here. Mike, I truly appreciate you taking the time to do a thorough critique of my vocals. It's very helpful and I will do my best to work on what you've mentioned. When I record my vocals, I never use any effects on it or any pitch things, etc. What you're hearing is me singing into a microphone and recording it...plain and simple. I am absolutely clueless with the mixing aspect and leave that to people who aren't clueless. I think it's a great idea that you add some backing vocals in the chorus. I actually can "hear" harmony all throughout the song EXCEPT in the chorus. So, when I do another take, I will add those harmonies that I "hear" and see what you and Scott think. Speaking of Scott, have you sent him the critique of my vocals as well? I'd like him to see them too. I'm on my way to work so maybe I'll just copy the bits about my vocals and send those to him. Kate If you don't care about what I think, why bother doing all of this? Why bother responding to this forum in the first place? I started this forum with one simple sentence and look where we are now. You brought this out in the open so why would I bother emailing you now? Let's do this. How about going back to the beginning of this forum and re-reading my posts vs. your posts and let's talk about who is being condescending to whom. Oh wait a second...I know what you're referring to now. Stupid me. You're talking about the dnote I sent you asking you not to spam me with your songs, right? Why don't you post that as well? I approached you like a wuss thinking that would be the kindest way to say it and said something like "you ask me all the time to listen to your songs but you never listen to mine" and wow...can't wait to show everyone what your response was to that. Would you like the honors? I'm out of touch with reality? That may be so, but who the hell isn't at times? You want a time line of my time here at dmusic? You ever have real life stuff that gets in the way? Here's a quick synopsis of my history here: I started in the fall of 2005, right around the time my mother began to lose her appetite, got sick with pneumonia, and was having chest pains. That doesn't all happen in one day and go away. Fast forward to April 2006 when she was diagnosed with cancer and I watched her slowly die before my eyes for four months. Then came the grieving period and facing the holidays without her...Thanksgiving, Christmas, my birthday, her birthday, and Mother's Day. Music was my only saving grace and there were times that I felt guilty for having my music. There were times that I felt like I never wanted to sing again. And, there was a period of several weeks this summer when I had the kind of vocal trouble that was pointing in the direction of me never being able to sing again. Did I act, during those times, like I was out of touch with reality? HELL yeah I did. Did I behave perfectly around this site? No I didn't. But it was a welcome distraction to the pain in my real life and I would do it all over again exactly the same way in a heartbeat. It's all about choice, Mike. That's all I ever wanted by starting this forum. You brought it to the level it stands now because that was your choice.
jack	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 8:02 AM Let's keep this on topic and the personal flaming elsewhere, please.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 11:11 AM Just a note to the person who is opposed to disabling song comments but exercising his right to block users from commenting on him... Pot. Kettle. Black. And Gene, you know me better than to shut up and do as I'm told. Now bring me a turkey sandwich and a bottle of beer, tart!
evansorchid	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 11:43 AM This has become an exercise in futility. Talk about raising the level of dialog. While I'd enjoy debating point for point on this some more, you’ve decided to bring up your personal tragedy, so I see no point in continuing this discussion. This is a perfect example of why I find it difficult to talk to you.
songbird	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:03 PM You made this personal from the get go. You brought all of this this into a "suggestions" forum instead of discussing this privately with me and blocked me from ever being able to discuss this with you. Did you honestly think I would read your last post and not defend myself? Allow you to post a private note between us on a public forum without posting the other part of that note exchange? Allow you to make it known to the DM community that you abhor my "head games" without them having a back story as to why I might have some "head games" going on in the first place? And finally, you find it difficult to talk to me, but you have no problem bashing me in a public forum. You block me from your page but bash me in a forum. And then you actually say the words "You have my email address if you want to get in touch with me" and proceeded to post a private dnote that was sent to me. Talk about head games, Mike. I can't believe it's come to this. And all because of something that had absolutely nothing to do with this forum post to begin with.
Israfel	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:09 PM Please stop...both of you. It saddens me to see this. I like both of you very much and the only thing that all of this shows is that all of us take what we do very seriously. Who said what, when and how and whatever... it doesn't matter... just please stop. I think you are both wonderful talented people and I hate seeing this. If you don't get along, so be it... leave it at that... and stop. Obviously the comment issue is a hot button for many people. I'm a little torn on how I feel about it myself but there is really no reason for all of this, regardless of who started it or why. Spike, Kate...I love ya both.. and I'm asking you, as someone who loves your music and enjoys knowing you...to please stop this.
ShadowMom	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:13 PM Please keep the personal discussions personal. This is a public forum. If you have nothing else to say about the topic, then don't post.
moam	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:28 PM ever taken a shit while masturbating on a headless prostitute?
GeneHilbert	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:34 PM Everyone needs to realize the argument has been made. (Pro & Con) It's time to move on...... No need to make it personal…….. That’s my job…….
ShadowMom	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:46 PM Let me amend that... because we are always off-topic. If you have a problem with another user, solve it elsewhere. Not in the forums. That's Gene's job... ???? Note to self: After Christmas, when he's full of and , hunt down in his lair and slay that
moam	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 12:51 PM good luck gettin' to me, bitches You'll have to break through my army of headless chickens first
Tattoomom	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 1:43 PM Yes...I heard he even has those headless chickens strapped to his pants.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 20, 2007 @ 2:04 PM I'm still waiting for my sandwich, Gene. Damnit, for a musician you're a terrible waiter.
GTOriginal	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 12:48 PM This is only the internet, so I don't actually know anyone, yet still I love you with all my heart and soul. That's just the kind of guy I am The only question that remains - How will I socially engineer myself tomorrow? Hmmmmm...
ShadowMom	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 1:20 PM
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 2:08 PM I have an answer to that, Gary...
evansorchid	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 2:41 PM Did you really think I was going to give you the last word? Point 1:…..oof…excuse me….. Oh, hi Mom. What are you doing here……. *Puts Spike in a headlock* Boy Mom, you sure have a pretty strong grip… *Mom whispers something in Spike’s ear* I can’t say that!….. *Mom administers a Full Nelson…. …but, you peeked at my notebox. You know what she said to me. Mom body slams Spike to the ground* ….Okay, okay, Uncle, uncle! ….What’dya want to say again? *Mom whispers in Spike’s ear while toying with his diamond stud.* …Okay, I’ll say it. Kate, I’m sorry.
ShadowMom	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 2:44 PM Welcome back...
GTOriginal	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 3:07 PM To escape a Full Nelson & obtain Submission: 1) Cross arms over forehead (to prevent opponent from breaking your neck). 2) Bend knees so center of gravity is lower than opponent's; the nelson is now largely innefective against cervical vertibrae. 3) Circle left foot around so it is behind opponent's right foot. 4) Reach up and peel a finger away to break the hold which is significantly weaker due to leverage. 5) Using your left hand, feed opponent's right hand under your right arm - apply basic arm bar against opponent's elbow. Option #1 - Increase pressure on elbow in standing position until it dislocates, or Option #2 - Drop your weight 45 degrees to the left - you will end up in a superior ground position with a submission hold on your opponent's arm - gradually apply pressure until elbow dislocates. Hope this helps!
GeneHilbert	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 3:53 PM Slow but efficient
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 3:59 PM Or you could employ TameasWindmachine...
GeneHilbert	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 4:00 PM Slowly efficient ………kinda like effectually ineffective……. an oxymoron w/o the oxy
GeneHilbert	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 4:02 PM That is uniquely Tameas territory..... I shall not tread....
ShadowMom	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 4:18 PM ...without a gas mask and a room deodorizer...
GeneHilbert	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 5:37 PM or lit match....
GTOriginal	Date: December 21, 2007 @ 8:20 PM Self Defense against Tameas attack. 1) There is none. Run.

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