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A Bright Future For DMusic

Woof	Date: March 27, 2008 @ 3:49 PM Hi. I've been thinking again. And we all know how dangerous that can be ha ha... I'd like to propose a model that I think would be a great fit for DM's future plans. Leflaw has mentioned adding video capabilities to this site already, and I think that, if we put the right twist on the concept, we could grow into a production house. DM is already a great place to make connections, specifically when it comes to collaboration. Its' weak spot has always been promotion. I've looked at SoundClick, and for $9 per month or something, you can get a VIP account there, which is ridiculous. It's ridiculous because the VIP account allows you to skin your band page and have it be ad-free... and while the ad-free part is nice, there's a ton of exposure and skinnable page features already available for free at those two monoliths of promotion: MySpace and YouTube. Before you rush to judgment, hear me out. I think YouTube is fantastic for promoting bands. The reason for this, is because you're networking with lots of people, working with audiovisual media, which makes your music a lot easier for new listeners to grasp, and because the quality of the video and audio there is low. Yes... low quality is a plus. Why would anybody buy your songs, when brilliant high resolution mp3's are available for free? Okay... a few fans would. Because they believe in supporting you. But most will just take the free stuff and run. By putting up promotional videos of your songs, and growing your audience on YouTube and MySpace, people can preview your material as often as they want, but if they want good quality versions of the songs, they'll have to buy them, either as a CD, or off of iTunes or something. So... how does DMusic fit into the picture? By modifying the same tools for collaboration that we have for audio production, to include video production. It's time to grow with the media. I'm proposing that users would be able to upload video footage for editing, not streaming. That way, members could work together on each others' projects. Different people have different skills, after all... and someone might be great at shooting footage, while another might be fantastic at editing. Still another might be capable of putting together killer titles. Lots of OMD sites offer bands the opportunity to upload video now, but as far as I know, there's no site that caters specifically to networking for music video production. People could even charge a little for their services. And in the end, the artists would be able to tap into this now-standard realm of promoting themselves. As a matter of fact, when I order CD's these days, I usually go for the limited edition first pressing, that includes a DVD with the promotional videos on it. Bands have promoted themselves like that in Japan for years now. And it's not unheard of to charge $20+ over there, for the standard pressing of just the CD. So, yeah... this would build a cooperative community with a well defined purpose and goals. I like that. Do you?
Cryxan	Date: March 27, 2008 @ 11:32 PM I like this idea. It's certainly forward-thinking.
ChillinBuzz	Date: March 28, 2008 @ 12:10 AM Definitely. A little dangerous thinking would do us a world of good.
ShadowMom	Date: March 28, 2008 @ 5:59 AM Personally, in the vein of promotion-- I would like to see the upcoming events splashed across the universe. What better way to promote our artists than to really let people know when they're performing and where? In neon letters, please! Perhaps an airplane skywriting it! A simple thing, but important. I like Woof's idea, but for me the video is something I usually look at ... once. It's the music itself I always come back to. Again and again! But right now videos are the best promotional tools, if they're done right. And by working with others, maybe some people who are a little shy or just new at this would be more willing to try.
Woof	Date: March 28, 2008 @ 10:49 AM I didn't want to overload folks with information in that initial post, but now that it seems there might be some interest, I think it's appropriate to mention more details. Hope that's okay. Music videos are only part of the promotional process. Of course, it's the part that artists all want to be the most perfect, and they're usually the focus of an artist's presentation. What seems to be equally important to promotion these days, though, is artists presenting themselves as people. Here's an example... Let's say you've listened to, and watched the PV for Pop Dolls' "Magazines". You like it, and subscribe to their channel. Wouldn't it be great to have a few video blogs done by Barbie and Vince to watch as well? You know... to sort of expand the scope? That's part of promotion, too. Sometimes, people tune in to the vlogs first, and then listen to the music if they like the people. So, you're approaching your audience from lots of angles, and that makes you more than another indie artist with a few songs to peddle. I've even seen interviews that have been done with editing. One person records their part, where their asking the questions... and then the other person records their part with the responses, and then it's edited. The advantage of having this kind of presentation all on one channel, is that it uses one page to accomplish two goals. Most of the artists here who are more active, post on the forums. That shows who they are as people, and it's part of promotion... or, at least, part of interaction. By consolidating both aspects into a single presentation, the casual viewer is more likely to find something in particular that they find appealing. Case in point: A month or so ago, I checked this vlog. It was okay. Nothing that particularly interested me, though. On the same page, however, were several clips of the vlogger playing piano... and playing beautifully. I tuned in for the vlog, and stayed for the music. Now I'm a fan. See how it works?
Dizeazed	Date: March 28, 2008 @ 10:23 PM No, I'm confused. You want to make it so DMers can upload videos... but only to be edited, not streamed? What? I'm a bit lost as to what you think this will add to the community or the promotion of the bands here on DM.
zedsalt	Date: March 29, 2008 @ 3:59 AM As I'm sitting here with the reading material I keep by the 'puter for perusal while I'm waiting between clicking on a thread and viewing it, all I can think about this broadband-only stuff is, "Sure, as long as nothing like that loads automatically". I've already had to wait elsewhere for a media player interface to load BEFORE I could start an approximately 40 min. to hour-and-a-half download. I won't be revisiting any of those sites.
Woof	Date: March 29, 2008 @ 8:59 AM I'm sorry I didn't make that quite as clear as I should have. The concept is to promote DMusic as a place where artists can come, to work cooperatively with other artists in establishing a presence on the web overall. One OMD site doesn't seem to be enough anymore. To get some real promotion going, it's my opinion that artists need to establish themselves in several places on the web, as well as in the real world. As for the video format, I'm looking at artists being able to upload high quality video, for purposes of enabling other members of the comunity to download it and work with the artists to develop multimedia presentations that the artists can use in a number of venues, not just here at DMusic. I take the point that a download only format without the option of streaming a preview might not be effective. I see no reason why DM can't offer both. And of course, the finished projects could certainly be viewed by audiences right here on DM as streaming media similar to what's offered at other OMD sites as well as YouTube. I think that ShadowMom made a good point, in mentioning that this might encourage more artists to get involved in the medium, because they'd be able to get assistance when they hit a snag while attempting to do it all themselves. Much like DeviantArt, this could also attract additional types of creative talent, who would ultimately be listening to what's offered here, possibly promoting it elsewhere on the web if they like it, and certainly promoting any project that they're cooperatively involved in on their own faforite places online. That would lead to additional exposure for your music.
Woof	Date: March 29, 2008 @ 9:03 AM PS. "faforite"?! Sheesh...
leedsquietman	Date: March 29, 2008 @ 11:01 AM Soundclick does not represent great value for it's VIP members IMHO, you get to upload in bitrates other than 128 Kbps and some free banner ads and discounts on promoting yourself. I don't think there are many Sounclick subscribers as a % of their total user base, I certainly wouldn't spend money there to subscribe, although I have a free page there.
GTOriginal	Date: March 29, 2008 @ 11:03 PM I would like to see the clock fixed, so I can tell what time it is.
Jennae	Date: April 1, 2008 @ 1:15 PM @ GT.. I will second that.. all in favor say ""
Jennae	Date: April 1, 2008 @ 1:16 PM @ GT.. I will second that.. all in favor say ""
Tattoomom	Date: April 1, 2008 @ 3:33 PM HA! Jennae double posted!!!
zedsalt	Date: April 2, 2008 @ 3:38 AM :Eye:
zedsalt	Date: April 2, 2008 @ 3:38 AM ?
zedsalt	Date: April 2, 2008 @ 3:39 AM Aye!
BOWILLIE	Date: April 2, 2008 @ 3:40 AM ..arrr.
ChillinBuzz	Date: April 2, 2008 @ 7:19 AM oo-er
independentm...	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 5:42 AM "Yes... low quality is a plus. Why would anybody buy your songs, when brilliant high resolution mp3's are available for free?" REAL fans are the ones who are gonna buy your stuff anyways. Make more REAL fans by giving them your best.
independentm...	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 5:51 AM I think DMusic should look into partnering with ReVVer. OR, do something akin to what ReVVer is doing all on its' own. DMusic should attempt to be THE place on the web where everybody goes to find streaming music vids. No other site really has that distinction yet. Although OurStage is fast becoming that. DMusic needs to strike while the iron's hot.
Woof	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 8:52 AM I dunno, Shmoo... It looks to me like the iron was hot when MySpace and YouTube were first being launched, and now we're seeing less popular, albeit higher quality, copycats. I'm talking about DMusic being a repository for works-in-progress, pure and simple. It would help artists prepare for promotion elsewhere. I guess you could say I'm looking at it as sort of a multimedia version of Harmony Central. That, to me, would be fresh. I've looked seriously at success of businesses on the web for a couple of years now, and the major successes seem to have always been driven by offering innovative combinations of technology. It doesn't have to be earth shattering technology, either... MySpace certainly proved that. It just has to be a complementary array. In other words, a good recipe. I looked at OurStage and ReVVer. OurStage looks appealing to artists, but that's who they seem to be targeting with their presentation. That struck me as odd. Like many sites, they offer a host of features in the interest of enticing artists to sign up, but very little of their presentation looks like it's geared towards appealing to potential fans. They've defined their audience, and it ain't people looking for music. Another subscription-based claim of promotion, perhaps? ReVVer was more interesting, although their affiliation with AOL gave me the impression that they will eventually be using that service to promote AOL affiliated content over independents. Sort of like Mp3.com does now. All of their top artists are signed. To compete, the independents need to produce materials that are on a par with what the majors are doing. The public has been conditioned to expect certain standards will be met, in both audio and video production. If anything sub-par is released, it looks homemade, and is usually dismissed. Technological advances in home audio and video production have certainly placed all of the tools necessary to compete, in the hands of just about everyone. To me, it's just a question of whether independents are capable of teaming up, in the interest of taking full advantage of the break that they've been given. That's why I'm thinking along the lines of Production House. The individuals who have managed to make a name for themselves as a result of harnessing internet promotional tools so far, have mostly been novelties. Their efforts go viral because they're absurd, not because they're quality. I think that, when the public sees that independents are capable of the same or better skills as the majors, that's how we're going to finally get respect. We won't get it by default i.e. people will turn to indies as "good" because the majors are "bad". People will turn to indies, when they see that independent production values are as good, or better, than the majors. There have been many "accidents" in the music industry over the years. The Mothers Of Invention, Alice Cooper, The Grateful Dead, and a host of other bands that are revered today, were signed because the execs really didn't know what would click with the public, so they took risks. That's something that rarely happens today, although there are one or two examples that come to mind. By taking the reigns ourselves, I think we can avoid the need to be signed, to produce first rate material. And that eliminates the necessity of the majors, the RIAA, and all the crap that comes with it. I've been saying this for years, though, and nobody seems to care much about doing it. In the meantime, the rest of the web is catching on, and it's on its' way. I think that the question we have to ask ourselves, is whether we want to be prepared when it hits, or not. Because, it's going to...
leflaw	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 9:38 AM I like that...
independentm...	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 1:35 PM OurStage is like the old Garageband.com (but better and more modern) ReVVer is like YouTube, but they share ad revenue with the users. The point I'm trying to make is that there are not many strictly "music video" destination on the web. All the big video sites are for videos of any kind. I think DMusic should strive to become THE flagship indie music video site on the web (in addition to what it already does.) I was not aware ReVVer was affiliated with AOL. (You might be thinking of OurStage who is buddy buddy with AOL, but ReVVer was loosly associated with the creative commons and the Internet Archive last I checked.)
Woof	Date: April 4, 2008 @ 3:29 PM I stand corrected, Shmoo... It was OurStage that had the AOL affiliation, not ReVVer. Thanks a million for setting the record straight. You do know that YouTube offers a revenue sharing program for its' content providers too though, don't you? It's their "YouTube Partner Program". Not without its' flaws, but it's a program in practice, now. To be fair, I did come across a fantastic analysys of that program by one of their content providers. It's kind of a rant as well, but offers a really good insight into the pros and cons of online video content providers. I shared it with the admins here, because I didn't think it would interest the general membership. You might find it interesting though, if you can set 11 minutes aside to really listen to this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avTO1ZdMk20
zedsalt	Date: April 5, 2008 @ 4:31 AM I pay a lot of attention to what people are viewing and/or listening to in the library internet labs, the internet lounges, and wi-fi hotspots in restaurants. Between, say, half and two-thirds of the time, if they're watching music videos, they're watching mp3.com, and the lead over YouTube appears to be growing. I'm told that this trend is much more rapid in the major population centers than it is here in rural Indiana. The distinction between some Major and damn nigh exclusively Indie is an important one, but the real novelty, the real innovation in Woof's suggestion, is in the idea of video production collaboration. Without that, DMusic video is a really bad idea.
ShadowMom	Date: April 5, 2008 @ 4:54 AM I watched the video, Woof, and despite the rambling and name-calling, I got the gist of what he was saying. But marketing, especially on the internet, is outside my realm of understanding. He didn't sell me, though, although I see where he's headed with it. Are you suggesting something like this for DMusic in the future? One thing I've always loved about DMusic over other sites is the cooperation, on many levels, between the artists. Everyone here leaves their egos at the door, so to speak, and the few who don't generally don't stay long. But to the point, would you say this IS the future, one way or another?
Tattoomom	Date: April 5, 2008 @ 5:07 AM Actually...this idea is already possible. We thought about it when we did the collab with McCabe Road Dogs. They would shoot some footage of themselves playing in the garage and skating and acting like goofs or whatever they do... and then Bill would just edit some material of ours into and post it where the whole world could see...sort of like we HAD actually gone to their garage and jammed with them. DMusic would have been the ideal place to upload such video since it was a musical collaboration as well...but it never came to fruition because they didn't have the equipment they needed to shoot the footage.
Woof	Date: April 5, 2008 @ 8:49 AM Well it's Saturday, and I've left my business chops at the door for the weekend, but if you'll bear with me, I'll do my best to answer your questions. I'm in 100% agreement with Zed, that DM would basically be the same as any other modern OMD site, without the option of video collaboration. And as Tattomom pointed out, the concept is extremely do-able. People are already doing this, as a matter of fact, for their YouTube videos. Her method of mixing and matching alternate footage from different sources is exactly what I'm talking about. ShadowMom raises all the right questions as well. Originally, when I sent that link out, I figured it would be of interest to the admins because the gentleman who made it talks a lot about the type of content that advertisers would find acceptable. That's an important first step, because to make an ad revenue based model work, people need to realize that certain things just aren't going to be appealing to advertisers. That's not to say that anybody should censor their creative scope to suit the marketing people. It simply means that artists who make and promote video content that appeals to both the public and the advertisers could be in a position to share in the ad revenues. This gives artists an extra incentive to make content. Let's say, for example, that DM is expecting to generate X amount of dollars in ad revenue, as a result of adding video to the site. When the top content providers (video producers... that's us, folks) have proven that they have attracted advertisers as a result of their content, they are rewarded. The gentleman's point was, everybody gets a shot. So, if douring the course of a given week or month, some n00b uploads something that generates tons of hits, AND the advertisers like the image that's presented, that person would receive a share of the increased revenue as a reward for their efforts. I don't want to get too deeply into that end of things, though, because we're creative people who want to accomplish a lot more with our work, than make some advertisers happy. That shouldn't be our main objective. It's just an extra perk for some people who would like to see a little immediate cash to help fund their future projects. The real advantage, would be the possibility of having DVD's to sell with our CD's as a combined package, having audiovisual promotional content to upload anywhere on the web that we like, and to send as part of our presskits. [deep breath] Okay... given all of that... let's say it becomes an actual option here... our profiles here at DM would start to make a lot more sense as well. Instead of a handful of amusing photos and bios where we could enter fun facts like our favorite flavor of ice cream or something, the first page that folks could see, would be an artist overview, skillset, and list of recent projects. Sort of an online resume. There could be a tab for an EPK (electronic press kit), as well as a tab for visitors to listen to and view our portfolio. That would be our completed works... Music, Video, etc. There would be the usual contact forms as well. Of course, if this was done, DM pages sure wouldn't bear a lot of resemblence to SoundClick or MySpace pages. It would be drier and more factual, because visitors wouldn't be looking to be wowed by how many animated gif's you can cram into a 400x400 px window... they'd be wanting to read your credentials, and review your finished work. All of this is ad supported (for non-subscribers, of course). And hey... if people get entertained in the process, ain't nuthin wrong with that.
ShadowMom	Date: April 5, 2008 @ 8:55 AM And all of this would be optional, of course-- because some of us ain't got nuthin to put in all them fancy things your talkin' 'bout! This could be very good
ChillinBuzz	Date: April 11, 2008 @ 5:28 PM How about... "Pimp My DM Server"?