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Disable Guest

FraDonaghy	Date: August 29, 2009 @ 8:13 PM Here\'s a suggestion, and a question. Suggestion: Disable the guest account completely. Question: What benefits (if any) does it bring to this site? In my opinion this is one of the silliest features ever to have been implemented at this site. 99% of people using the guest account already have an account here, and only use it to be negative. Show of hands?
pog	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 5:01 AM I dont see a point to it except to attract people into trying the site before they set up an account.
realmedia	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 5:14 AM if they wanna try the site~ then they can join~ if 99% of members are posing as guest and they get really negitive~ just say wat you gotta say why hide i had this problem yesterday but i dealt with it! members should put more time into promoting the site and getting this place happening~ if guest wants to attack me in the shoutbox then its on! srry but i got too dam much pride i tried to innore the feble little minded guest that was provoking me to no avail~ i was openly called a name in the site shoutbox~it really dont matter but the fact remians if members are doing 99 percent of guest's activitys then members are partilly to blame for why this place isnt living up to its full potential! i was just trying to promote the cover contest and get poeple to vote~ done guest can suk it and you know who you are! no more attacks! why cant you say what you wanna say in a note! e-nuff already,,i wont be brought down with u guest! thats my guest is stupid!! just like watchlists~
BOWILLIE	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 5:23 AM ok..gets out my violin..tunes it to the key of waaaaaaaa one two three four..waaaaaaaa
realmedia	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 5:40 AM whatever gets out my tunes to the key of ~ suk it!
GTOriginal	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 7:29 AM I don't think it makes a difference. There is an extremely low level of activity on DMusic these days, and that cycle began long before there was a guest account. The thing to focus on should be WHY existing site users feel the need to be anonymous if they have something negative to say. If they use a chickenshit method of expressing their hostility, at least they are venting it instead of harboring it due to fear of repercussion (which only leads to site evacuation). People, look around.
FraDonaghy	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:09 AM Good point Gary. I do recall a few years ago that constructive criticism towards the re-design, (and indeed some not so constructive criticism... ) was met by a degree of "go fuck yourself then" by the then powers that be. Many people did indeed choose to go fuck themselves, explaining the current activity drought, and many others may have took note of how their concerns fell on deaf ears, and now choose to voice their own behind the veil of Guest. Regardless though, the guest account is being abused.. and will continue to be, so long as people harbour negativity towards this site and other users. So either we all have a big grown up discussion about what is wrong with this site and agree to take measures to try and fix it, or we can continue sniping each other from the safety offered behind Guest. In the meantime though, if the feature is aimed at enticing new users, right now it is being counterproductive as any newbies showing up are just seeing a rampant troll running amok. How is that a good image for the site? Would Facebook or MySpace support a feature that enabled disgruntled users to continually disrespect the site so visibly?
BOWILLIE	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:15 AM tonight/this morn was mostly me i admit..as guest..rm knows it i told him as much..its a utility..nothing more..unless used for more devious or destructive reasons..actually it was my last effort to even come around here..get rid of guest..one more reason not to even bother here..peace out dmusic. im so tired of trying to convince myself one good reason to continue here.
FraDonaghy	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:18 AM Bow, here's a good reason - your music is among the best on the site and I personally enjoy your input. You have, along with everyone else here, a great deal to offer and DMusic would be all the poorer for your absence.
BOWILLIE	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:21 AM thank you my friend. i do appreciate it. the guest issue arised again..because i was playin with realmedia in the shout..i made a point to let him know it was me..and im pretty sure most comments he made here was before the fact..so its just another un needed issue in a place that is issue less..arr.
FraDonaghy	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:24 AM I was posting this suggestion without having even seen the shoutbox, so whatever transpired between John and yourself is beside the point. Guest is still a pain in the ass.
BOWILLIE	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:28 AM i know..and nothing did i dont think as usual i allways assume the worse realmedia is a taint though you know..as him what a taint is
BOWILLIE	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 8:29 AM ask*..skicky keys..lol
zedsalt	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 9:45 AM I like to listen to new, original music made by creative people. I like it when people listen to my music. I don't like the idea of excluding people. If I read about someone whose music I enjoy, and it turns out I find him/her/them personally repugnant, y'know what? I STILL ENJOY TO THE MUSIC! When things like this thread make me stop and try to imagine myself...I'm having a hard time just finding the words here; the whole concept is so ridiculously pathetic...I'll just leave it at that: the idea of choosing what music I listen to based on how much I like the people making it strikes me as ridiculously pathetic. I don't want to be that guy. And if there is such a thing as an artist who hates the idea of "undesirable" people enjoying his art, I don't want to be that guy either. I'd like to see the Guest account access extended beyond the limits of its first incarnation, because I like to listen to new, original music made by creative people, and I like it when people listen to my music.
evansorchid	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 10:00 AM Let it out, Bo.....confession is good for the soul.
Distilled1	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 12:06 PM This site is all of yours always has been its what YOU make it the drought is all the people that post music leave and when you find them on another web site theres not one link to their music here they point to my space ... wheres the link to their dmusic page? as with any web site YOU have to promote it or no one will come! make it what you want. guest account is worthless in my opinion and I have said so since the start. but its there and I sure get mad at the post sometimes and fight in the shoutbox with the guest ... I figure if someone wants to be so negative they really love it here or they would move on. by taking that energy into a useful tool and promoting all over the place maybe there would be more traffic DMusic is yours, mine, and anyone that wants to use it. treat it like trash and it will be trash, try and make it turn into gold, and it will become gold.
realmedia	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 12:19 PM with all do respect rich i do promote dmusic on facebook and even got a link or links in my myspace too amonst other sites sometimes i think people dont get it~ i mean simply how the site works a. how to interact b how to pimp thier page it took me forever to figure out the site here so i think people are turned off immediatly by how hard it is to interact here, if they have never seen or used a forum site forget it they dont want to do the work involved~ as far as guest goes i could care less whats starts out innocent can turn into a all out fight shouting match~ if there was no guest then people have to be real and post under thier name~ when they post as guest you gotta enter a code does that code not then track who you are ip address anyway i am here to interact in a friendly nature as an artist! this little corner of the internet is one i enjoy using on a daily basis!
FraDonaghy	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 3:40 PM Zed, I don't follow your logic. No-one is implying that undesirable people's music or ears are not valued here just as much as the next person. All that is in question is the guest account's seeming ability to bring out so much vehemence, and the underlying issues as to why that is the case. I also don't get the link between having anonymity and how that helps promote the music here. Anyone can browse and listen whether they are a member at DM or not. That has always been the case. Guest never influenced that in any way. Let me stress that this is not a personal attack on your opinion. I am simply hoping to further understand your point, and possibly clarify my own.
shadowself	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 7:25 PM [quote=zedsalt]I'd like to see the Guest account access extended beyond the limits of its first incarnation[/quote] Admin poweerrrrrssss!!!
shadowself	Date: August 30, 2009 @ 7:26 PM Oh for crying out loud, there is a quote button. I fail.
zedsalt	Date: August 31, 2009 @ 10:18 AM I think we can all agree that there are always going to be people who treat user-provided-content sites as, essentially, open archives. There are also, of course, people who like to find a new site and participate on every level available, then tend to get bored rather quickly and start devoting their time to another web community. And we have the sort of folks who usually get involved in discussions like this, people who find sites they enjoy and basically make themselves at home. The difference is...and I feel confident stating it that bluntly, as I believe it's just common sense...the difference is less a matter of individual personalities than it is a matter of how engaging the site is. I'm probably a pretty good example. Everybody tells me I'm not REALLY promoting my music, because after all, I haven't put any effort at all into the big social networking sites. I know there's a lot to that; I could reach a lot more listeners, but I also know that maintaining a page on a site like that would be absolute drudgery for me. I don't IM. I don't blog. I don't post responses on other people's blogs. I don't post my opinions on newspaper or magazine articles on the 'net. DMusic is my one exception because it is...or at least, was...exceptionally engaging. The Guest account could've been a big step toward making DMusic as engaging as iuma.com used to be. The only big impediment left would be the fact that guests couldn't post song comments like they could at IUMA. It's pitifully predictable, though, what would happen if we tried that here, with the users we currently have. People who don't like the idea would be given free reign to subvert, sabotage, and just plain fucking wreck the site.
zedsalt	Date: August 31, 2009 @ 10:35 AM I realize there was an awful lot of me, me, me in my last post. My only excuse is that I was up into the wee hours yesterday morning, literally losing sleep over my enthusiasm for DMusic. In the space of time between clicking through on this thread and reading the last word of the first post, I went from being as excited about this site as I've ever been straight down to wondering why I still visit in the space of a few seconds.
TameasDust	Date: September 6, 2009 @ 3:08 PM But we would have all them guests in wheelchairs
pog	Date: September 7, 2009 @ 3:43 AM Is it just me or is it that now the site is running relatively smoothly, with less bugs, and more forethought before implementation... Not saying that any past coders have done a bad job, as it has been a constantly evolving thing, however, as a result, people are getting bored with not having any chaos in their experience as there is less cutting edge stuff going on?
pog	Date: September 7, 2009 @ 3:45 AM Mind you there is lots of cutting edge still going on, it just seems to be rolling out smoother...
zedsalt	Date: September 7, 2009 @ 9:32 AM Myself, I'm pretty satisfied with the relative amount of chaos in my life...seems about right... I just enjoyed the bump up in number of listens I got when the Guest account thing was attempted and would enjoy the inevitable increase that would happen if DMusic were to follow up on the best idea they've had in the time I've been a member.
Distilled1	Date: September 7, 2009 @ 1:49 PM NOw that is something I don't get with the listen count. you never needed a "guest" to listen, but with that did it make a different count on listens? I mean the only thing I saw was you could post as a guest .. It does seem with less drama there is less activity or ... see my post under announcements for something new!
zedsalt	Date: September 8, 2009 @ 9:51 AM More people visited. More people listened. Try to complicate it any further than that, and you're overthinking it. A portion of the people who hear or overhear about anything "dramatic" in the forums are going to visit. A tiny portion of that portion are going to want to join the discussion badly enough to register. A much larger portion would...given the chance...post as a guest. Most, if not all of those would stay and become active members. Making sure a forum, user group, discussion group, etc. is easily accessed by non-registered users is the most effective way to grow. Limiting access cuts down on activity. Can anyone think of any exception?
Tattoomom	Date: September 11, 2009 @ 9:15 PM If you REALLY want to disable him, I think I can scrounge up a pair of rusty scissors.... Just sayin....
zedsalt	Date: September 12, 2009 @ 9:32 AM So, you take my conclusion (that all of the site sabotage coming from the Guest account was by registered DM members) one step further, and assume that it's really all only one member? That may well be the case. Y'know, with piglets, what we did was make an incision in the fleshy part of the inner thigh, reach in, pull each teste out the same cut, snip each canal, and spray the area with Purple Wound Spray. The scrotum eventually turns to normal skin, and all you're left with is a tiny scar tucked away in the inner thigh. Personally, I was thinking more of just blocking any further posts from the abuser's IPA. I'll concede, though, that both approaches have their merits and both make much more sense than limiting the Guest access.
FraDonaghy	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 9:06 AM Zed, I don't get how you tie the guest account to increased listens. I would understand it if the feature was accompanied by a great deal of external promotion so people outside of DM even knew it existed, but by and large the only people who knew of guest were those who didn't need it. As for the listens and downloads.. anyone, member or non member, has full access to that aspect of the site, and always has had. If guest was shut down tomorrow passers by would not have their access to the music on this site restricted in any way.
zedsalt	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 10:05 AM The Guest account feature was introduced; the frequency of listens sitewide went up significantly. Do you think it's at all likely that that was a mere coincidence? People outside the site didn't know about the feature until/unless a DMer told them about it...that's EXACTLY right...and look at what a boon it was. Can you imagine what would happen if DMusic was to not only encourage interaction and welcome participation, but to actually announce somewhere outside the site that they were doing so?
zedsalt	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 10:08 AM In rereading that post, I just noticed that I started referring to DMusic as "they" instead of "we". That pretty much sums it up; I'm not feeling much like one of the tiny group of people who are welcome here.
FraDonaghy	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 10:09 AM I honestly don't recall any boost in listens sitewide. When was it, and how was it tracked? The current stats system is flawed and inaccurate anyway so how can it be trusted?
zedsalt	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 10:13 AM You're right; all I have to go on is the individual results for everyone I know who keeps track of such things.
zedsalt	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 10:25 AM I just posted another batch of song comments, and it gave me an idea. Maybe I should start limiting my activity to only those things I can do without logging in...except for song comments. With song comments, I should create a new user account for every word of each comment. even with the handful of single-sentence comments I leave, I'd bet I still average about 150 words or so... I'm just kidding, of course, I like DMusic, or at least, I did.
Distilled1	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 1:43 PM "The current stats system is flawed and inaccurate" It was fixed this past year sometime (there's a forum about it somewhere in here)and is much more accurate than it was. And we are all the "we" there will always of course be those cliques in any on line place from forum cliques to shout box cliques or what seem like full site cliques, I would hope no one here has ever felt un-welcomed, though some of the reply's newbs get as they don't know the ways of some of our veteran users give warm welcomes... well may scare off some
ShadowMom	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 4:59 PM To the best of my knowledge, the stats haven't really been fixed-- they're tied to the file manager somehow, it was the CHARTS that were fixed, but there are still some bugs in the fm... some people reporting that listens are not registering and such. "Guest" may well be responsible for some listens, but all that was about the same time the games, the chatroom, the videos were all enabled-- as well as about the same time my feeble attempts at a newsletter (11,000 subscribers!) began. So it would be difficult to lay all of that at the feet of one new feature. And Zed, you better still be kidding. This place wouldn't be the same!
Israfel	Date: September 13, 2009 @ 9:55 PM I really don't mind the guest feature. I think it can be actually kind of fun but that's just me. Seems like the only time there's much activity in the forums is if someone is out there stirring up crap. And if you truly want the guest account "abuse" to stop, treat it like you should any internet troll...ignore it! Don't add fuel and the fire will go out. Simple as that. Actually, one thing I find more intrusive than the guest is the spam. Wait, I'll rephrase that. I don't mind the actual spam itself because I always like to be alerted when any one has a new song up. I mind the assumption that just because you've placed some spam in my shoutbox I will immediately listen to your song. Now, sometimes I will, sometimes I won't. I figure that's up to me to decide. And if you note me 5-10 times in addition to the spam well...bad form.
zedsalt	Date: September 14, 2009 @ 9:17 AM I wouldn't mind actual Spam, either, within reason. I mean, I figure I could come up with something to do with, say, a half a pound of it a week or so. A little less would be ideal. One of those "just add water" rice packets (maybe something from Knorr's "Asian Sides" line), some pan-fried Spam, a half can of corn or peas, and a can of water chestnuts...sounds pretty good...
BOWILLIE	Date: September 14, 2009 @ 9:29 AM you are making me hungry zed
Israfel	Date: September 14, 2009 @ 9:19 PM Zed! Okay, lunch is on Zed tomorrow. Not literally ON him but you know what I mean. I mean if it was on him, well...it might get a little hairy. Ew!
moam	Date: September 14, 2009 @ 9:53 PM refrains from commenting
imemine	Date: September 14, 2009 @ 10:53 PM refrains from commenting
zedsalt	Date: September 15, 2009 @ 9:11 AM It's true; I am quite hirsute. Anyone who likes the idea of eating that much hair probably should talk to a therapist about their problem. I mean, not with "Doc, the voices in my head are telling me to kill" kind of urgency, but y'know, see one when it's convenient.
TameasDust	Date: September 24, 2009 @ 8:00 AM Nothing that a Few Shaking Boobies won't fix
zedsalt	Date: September 24, 2009 @ 9:38 AM Well, sure, is there any situation that wouldn't benefit from a little jiggle-jiggle?
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 24, 2009 @ 10:33 AM On 24th Sep 2012, zedsalt said: Well, sure, is there any situation that wouldn't benefit from a little jiggle-jiggle? How about a suicide bomber walking into a busy market?
zedsalt	Date: September 25, 2009 @ 9:14 AM The more I think about it, the more scenarios I come up with which suggest I should've been more specific.
imemine	Date: September 25, 2009 @ 11:04 AM Can I be disabled too?
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 25, 2009 @ 2:51 PM On 25th Sep 2012, imemine said: Can I be disabled too? First thought was, "Why?" Second thought was, "Is welfare THAT good?" Eventually, I decided not to answer it.
zedsalt	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 9:16 AM You could study Steve Martin's character in "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"...
joycedavis	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 9:43 AM i'm disabled, and kinda like a little jiggle-jiggle every now and then, but could someone tell me how to get welfare. i could buy some of that great food and not eat it with any hair, still lunch with zedsalt would be pretty nice, too.
joycedavis	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 9:44 AM was the question to disable the guest account, or disable the ability for users of dmusic's ability to use it, sort of?
GTOriginal	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 9:57 AM Yes but then the Salt would raise your BP to dangerous levels and you may then want the fiber found in the hair to help offset some of that through evacuation. Having said that, I'm going on a hunger strike... I personally would like to see Guest account enabled to make song comments in conjunction with a user wide comment delete feature. But that may require some gasp program modification...
zedsalt	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 10:17 AM I know it's more than a little distasteful to most folks, but y'know, there are lawyers who specialize in getting benefits for people who truly deserve them and have been denied. Nobody likes an ambulance chaser, but they're probably the best-qualified to get you into the programs. Seriously, I am a really good cook. I can be a less-than-perfect dining companion, though, because I like to do things like see if I can get people laughing hard enough to pass liquids out their noses. And Gary's right- I have rasied more than one person's blood pressure in my time. The idea of making it impossible, or at least difficult, for a member to use the non-member account is GREAT, but I can't figure out how one would implement it, especially in those instances when a public computer is being used. Opening song comments to non-registered users would cause a HUGE increase in traffic here. And DMusic has one of the hardest-working, quickest sets of admin's on the whole dang Web; they could delete the unwanted remarks.
GTOriginal	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 11:51 AM We all have different opinions about this, and it has been the topic of much heated debate. I have actually had to remove entire songs from my page after having delete requests denied from (former?) administrators on the grounds that the remarks were "not offensive enough". This should never happen and can only be avoided through a feature or a policy. Users should be given control of their own pages, period. Personally, if I have to say "pretty please with sugar on top" each time, I will probably just wipe the entire song instead, along with all the comments. It's easier and less of a pain in the ass that way.
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 12:59 PM GT, an alternative is you ask a subscriber nicely to join your band temporarily and get them to delete comments, if you can't do it. I'd happily help you on that part. Then all you do is remove me from the band and life goes on. Joyce, my apologies. I thought the benefit system as a whole in your country was called welfare, we tend to lump all the benefits here under one name rather stupidly, although there are several types people generally tend to just go, "they're on benefits".
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 1:03 PM On 26th Sep 2012, zedsalt said: The idea of making it impossible, or at least difficult, for a member to use the non-member account is GREAT, but I can't figure out how one would implement it, especially in those instances when a public computer is being used. Opening song comments to non-registered users would cause a HUGE increase in traffic here. And DMusic has one of the hardest-working, quickest sets of admin's on the whole dang Web; they could delete the unwanted remarks. Point 1: Unfortunately, this is pretty much impossible. Not withstanding the very few members who have multiple accounts (even legitimate ones), cookies can be cleaned out and IP addresses spoofed. Point 2: Although there are admins around from time to time, you can't always tell the turnaround time on a request (and some requests are totally ignored) so if the timeframe isn't an issue, you're spot on. On the subject of bandwidth, if admins were to remove comments they would generate that extra bandwidth instead of the user, so no real difference there, plus less data on a song means less data in the database and, therefore, less space and bandwidth used in future.
ShadowMom	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 5:31 PM As a rule, if asked, we will delete unwanted comments on any page. As a rule... because there ARE two people involved, but we tend to favor the artist who requests it. If it were automatic, it wouldn't be a subscriber perk, would it? And at times, it can cause problems. I think we pretty well cover any 24-hour period here, between the 5 of us (counting that no-good CEO guy ), and most of you know who we are. A simple request will usually be answered, but we do keep a pretty close eye on the HelpDesk, too. And I don't think any comments, even thousands of them, are any real drain on bandwidth-- and from what I've heard from some more knowledgeable quarters than me, bandwidth is pretty cheap these days. As for Guest, Chris is correct-- what Zed suggests is pretty much impossible. You can't stop registered users without doing away with Guest altogether. But I AM curious, Zed-- do you really think people would comment more if they weren't asked to register first? We do not keep track of how many comments there are in a day, say, but rather how many unique visitors to the site we have. So how would this increase traffic?
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 6:35 PM How about if unregistered users wishing to leave a comment could do so but it was "pending approval by the artist"...
moam	Date: September 26, 2009 @ 7:09 PM I kinda wish the artist could very simply delete the comments left on his/her songs. That way, people not signed in could take shits all they want over any song they listen to...but the artist could just very easily delete them. If that happened, it would never be a hassle to delete asshole comments on your tunes, so who cares if "guests" start leaving dick hole comments on music, since they're too coward to sign in and do it Honestly, I know what will happen if we allow guest to comment on tunes. Guest will become the epitome of "negative" and will criticize every song on the site. Because people who use guest are typically old school users who like to come back and mock the place to be funny, and since they're typically too lame and pussy to show their real identity, they will LOVE that they can hide when giving asshole feedback, so... But, on the upside, I think that might encourage more people to comment anyway? When a random dude stumbles across his/her friend's dm page and starts listening, maybe he/she will have some thoughts? I'm sure that's happened PLENTY. But they can't comment until they have an account...and would you really want to sign up for a site just to leave a couple thoughts? Typically no. Overall, I think that letting guest comment on songs, but still giving the artist the freedom to delete comments, or even just approve them, would solve the issue of guest being an out-of-control, total ASSHOLE prick at all times. Anyways, thats what I think...
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 4:01 AM Someone didn't get his chicken last night, did he?
zedsalt	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:19 AM I do my best to not talk about iuma.com here, for much the same reason that a widower who loses a WONDERFUL spouse shouldn't talk a lot about him/her after remarrying. But like here, most of the listens my band received there came from non-members. The difference was that IUMA allowed "anonymous" reviews. In order for non-member reviews to greatly increase the number of new visitors here, there would have to be some sort of press release OUTSIDE DMUSIC, and I don't really expect that, seeing as I've seen a grand total of one of those in the ten years, four months, three weeks, and six days I've had internet access. But I do believe that it would greatly increase the number of repeat visits by folks who may or may not eventually register.
zedsalt	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:25 AM On 26th Sep 2012, ShadowMom said: As for Guest, Chris is correct-- what Zed suggests is pretty much impossible. You can't stop registered users without doing away with Guest altogether. If I may, Joyce brought up the idea; I said I thought it was "GREAT", but probably impossible. Or at least, that I didn't see how it could be done, recognizing the fact that many DMers have more expertise regarding the internet than I do.
zedsalt	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:32 AM On 26th Sep 2012, moam said: When a random dude stumbles across his/her friend's dm page and starts listening, maybe he/she will have some thoughts? I'm sure that's happened PLENTY. But they can't comment until they have an account Sure they can! As a matter of fact, with the exception of the Cover Contest tune, I've received a LOT more comments on every songfile I've posted here, since the redesign, outside DMusic than on my artist page. I know what you mean, though- it would be nice if the commenters didn't have to actually see me face-to-face at the grocery store or whatever.
TameasDust	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:37 AM Geee ... reading this people may actually think we are serious
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:42 AM On 27th Sep 2012, TameasDust said: Geee ... reading this people may actually think we are serious Patience, grasshopper
zedsalt	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 10:43 AM It's silly just how serious I am.
Distilled1	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 11:23 AM subscribers can delete song comments...
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 2:23 PM Stop that, it's silly. Ah, good old Monty Python.
Israfel	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 6:32 PM Wow, we should be nicer to our disabled guests. Oh wait...what? .....never mind....
BOWILLIE	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 6:33 PM yea.. im following you around izzy..
Israfel	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 6:35 PM YIKES!!
imemine	Date: September 27, 2009 @ 9:31 PM
TameasDust	Date: October 27, 2009 @ 5:27 PM and now for something completely normal...
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 28, 2009 @ 7:51 AM ... still waiting for "completely normal"...
GeneHilbert	Date: October 28, 2009 @ 1:12 PM I don't have a ramp.
zedsalt	Date: October 29, 2009 @ 2:48 PM It's my understanding that there's a set number of people who can fit inside you before a ramp is required by law.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 29, 2009 @ 3:57 PM On 29th Oct 2012, zedsalt said: It's my understanding that there's a set number of people who can fit inside you before a ramp is required by law. Do they have to be normal sized adults or can they be dwarves?
zedsalt	Date: October 30, 2009 @ 11:08 AM I'm pretty sure the law makes the distinction, and we're talking about average size adults. Even if an especially tiny, especially skilled person with, say, a melon baller and a hide scraper hollowed Gene out, there's NO WAY you could jam even two average-size adults in there, and forget about the wheelchairs.
ChillinBuzz	Date: October 30, 2009 @ 12:10 PM True... I was just wondering where you were going to stick the ramp

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