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music . neurology. metaphysics. coincidence
simulacrat
Date:
March 16, 2005 @ 8:02 AM
Life astounds me, today it occurred through a
dmusic composition.
what makes us associate certain tones and rhythms
with certain situations, themes or moods? it is
incredible to me that certain progrssions will
make one sad, happy, angry or even if a
progression does not resolve itself by the end of
the song one may feel slightly off kilter.
these thoughts came to mind today when i
listened to sinful productions tune 'the end' on
RedLevel's page. i found it very interesting that
the progression this artist used seemed to mold
my thoughts into toughts about The End, if you
know what i mean. Then i reflected back and
remembered a song the Grits made a few years ago
about that very topic and how they had used very
similar tonal colors for that composition.
when i encounter 'coincidences' like this,
whether they be musical, deja vus or corporate
consciousness, the big metaphysical questions
begin to be begged.
is it simply neurological physiology that makes
us respond as such? if so, how did we ever devlop
that? is it just another cosmic coincidence? or
are we wired in certain ways so that we can
respond in corresponding ways?
Svensta
Date:
March 16, 2005 @ 8:41 AM
Good questions. My theory revolves around your
question 'how did we ever develop that?'
Honestly, I can think of absolutely zero reason
the environment/culture would have bred that into
us, speaking evolutionarily (yes I just made that
word up)
The best I can surmise at this point, is the same
argument I have to defend evolution. We evolved
differently. All creatures seem to develop
physically. Giraffes necks grew, platypuses
develop a host of oddball traits, just to
maximize their efficiency in their home environs.
We didn't. Instead we developed minds. These
'always on' cognitive units that can react,
adapt, and learn.
We no longer need to physically adapt. We don't
need fur or claws. We can build better. At some
point, intellect required emotion to function.
Or maybe it is just the last vestige of our fight
or flight and mating rituals. Competitiveness
and fear, hatred and adoration. Whatever the
reason our intellects are embedded into, and
forever slaves of, the emotional side of us.
Even simpler animals have been shown to display
emotions. It's a natural thing.
So finding that you react similarly to similar
stimulus, there's really little question as to
why. You would be odd if you COULD feel
differently about it. The question is now, what
made you emotionally put the two works together
as similar?
zedsalt
Date:
March 16, 2005 @ 11:04 AM
Interesting story: there's a tribe of American
Indians (sorry, can't recall which) who have a
ritual wherein they fast for three days, then
walk into a canyon filled with poisonous gases
(sp?). They aren't to speak of what they see, yet
EVERYONE of that tribe has the same vision. How
likely one is to have that EXACT vision seems to
be a matter of how purely, genetically they are a
member of that tribe!
And I saw a documentary on PBS once about folks
who damaged the same, pencil-eraser-sized area of
their brain, and lost the abilty to recognize
people. They COULD identify personal traits,
though. So, they might say, "Cleft nose, black
hair, bulbuous nose, kinda jowly..." but even if
they'd seen a picture of Nixon just moments
before, they couldn't identify the photo as ol'
Tricky Dicky!
The human mind is a strange and wonderful thing,
but it's a terrible thing to waste...or to find
in one's shoe...or to eat with a fork...or to
give as a Valentine's Day gift...or...
simulacrat
Date:
March 16, 2005 @ 1:55 PM
svensta, further to your argument:
in the sociology field, thinkers are starting to
blend psychotherpeutic systems with what is being
developed in the neural biology, linking
psychological disorders with neurological paths
that may or may not exist depending on the
situation. what they are finding is that as they
map the brain they are finding that some people's
neural pathways are simply non existent therefore
shutting off certain functions, at times even
autonomous ones. given this premise, i would
theorize that the musical pathways did not
actually exist to start with but as developing
humans began to start with banging rocks, then
sticks, then moved on to rudimentary flutes then
strings, humans neural pathways have been opening
up all leading to this point. i would argue that
these new paths are not passed on evolutionarily
(i liked that one) but through individual
experience. take the idea of progressive new
music that one may have initially hated but
through a few listens, that new music tends to
'grow' on that person (much more literally than
we may have expected). i personally feel that
those musical experiences are actually the most
fulfilling probably due to in part to the good
feeling that comes from learing or mastering
something new, in this case subconsciously.
given that premise it is absolutely no surprise
that when i heard the grits song first, which i
associated with 'the end' i became 'used to'
associating elements of that composition, leading
to my experience with ReLevel's tune. I suppose
quite possibly and even likely someone else may
even have a comletely different experience. that
being said, maybe there is a classical piece that
sociatally we've all been exposed to leading the
grits, redlevel and myself to all have the same
neural pathways open to.
further to this idea that as we are exposed to
ideas, concepts in the world out mind adapts to
make sense of them is the notion of subjectivity
and genetic disposition. musically there are also
factors such as octave theory and mathematical
timing, harmony, complexity and even timbre
selection for which we can credit discerning
aural sensitivities towards our gravitating
towards not only certain styles of music but also
towards good and bad music. thank goodness for
that or my mind may never have moved past the
captain kangaroo theme song.
wailingmiserere
Date:
May 4, 2005 @ 1:14 PM
Interesting thread
It has always absolutely staggered me when I
think about the human ear and how it can
distinguish between noise and musical sound, by
identifying the presence of the harmonic series.
That is just astounding. There seems to be no
reason why that would be beneficial to us. Raises
the question of whether or not animals hear music
the way that we do?
On the subject of how music actually developed, I
remember a university lecturer of mine talking
this, and mentioning a theory that the
development of music was linked directly to that
of spoken language, and that there is a lot to
suggest humans may have communicated via music
before they had any form of intelligible speech.
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