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U Think 9-11 Was A Set-up?

k-smoove	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 2:30 PM New evidence that popp'd up suggests the fall of the twin towers was a setup... I believe tha gov't is capable of doing anything ... Wat u guys think? Also, For any of ya'll interested in peepin' alternative news n finding out wat's really goin on in tha world aside from what the corporate-ruled mainstream media news tries to brainwash u with, check these sites out: http://www.gcnlive.com/ (click on "listen live" tab then click on the media program of your choice to listen to sum free info that'll blow ya mind) http://www.infowars.com/ I strongly suggest any n every1 to check out tha DVD "Martial Law 9-11 Rise of the Police State" shit, I'll copy it n send it 2 any1 wishin to peep it... Holla
K3VIN	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 3:14 PM propaganda and conspiracies are the same thing in ways
k-smoove	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:11 PM Yea... they're all induced by man
TameasDust	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:38 PM want a conspiracy ... Ben Laden was invented by the president so he could be re-elected ... sacrificing a few buildings for the most powerful job in the world ....
K3VIN	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 6:40 PM bin laden and the al-quada was originally funded by the u.s. to kill the russian communists in afghanistan and take it back then america left htem to starve and fend for themselves something along those lines
k-smoove	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:02 PM How about this? Al-Qaida was originally founded by a russian military high official. Tha U.S. jump'd on tha bandwagon to take the stakes of wat Al-Qaida was capable of further by funding them to overthrow the Russian invasion in the 80's . Furthermore, that gave U.S. total control over wat Al-Qaida did and how they did it. Bin Laden was a puppet for the C.I.A who was manned head of Al-Qaida when the U.S. decided to utilize him as a weapon for chaos and control.
K3VIN	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 9:12 PM didnt this happen in the 70s ahh w/e all i kno is al-qaida were funded by us at one point
desiderata	Date: December 12, 2005 @ 10:39 PM The attacks of September 11, 2001 are not now, nor have they ever been, an event orchestrated by the U.S. government. There are evil men in this world who are bent on destroying their enemies. America and its secularism and pro-Israeli stance is viewed as the enemy. It's that simple.
k-smoove	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 12:18 AM And the Globalist's view of inducting the New World Order is that simple also...
Veracohr	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:41 AM That's not very new. Such theories came into existence almost from day one.
TameasDust	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:52 AM True ... I wonder what the conspiracy theories were about moses and the pharoah ?
sinai	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:10 AM well lets just hope Jesus saves us all... after he tells us how to kill the muslims, pagans, gays, abortionists, stem cell scientists, and nickelback fans...
TameasDust	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:13 AM oh noooooooo not the nickelback fans
AgentMGD	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 10:12 AM the needs of the many outnumber the needs of the few ...a sacrifice was made and innocent lives were murdered. my theory - the "airplane" crashing into the Pentagon was definitely a hoax - all video surveillance tapes from nearby businesses were IMMEDIATELY seized by the FBI ...the hole where the "airplane" supposedly crashed is a "too perfect" circle ...where is the passenger list for this "flight" just remember the CIA put Saddam into power by in the 80s and the Bush knowing people were still sore about the 2000 elections needed an scapegoat to take the blame. even the UN stated that Iraq HAD NO WMDs however the US lied to justify the need and the necessary for this "war" over 2000 US and 30,000 Iraqi civilian deaths we are still there. time to bring the troops home!
GeneHilbert	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 10:44 AM Don't be a fucking idiot
Ghostie	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 10:48 AM Those who put trust in our goverment are the fucking idiots!!
zedsalt	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 10:56 AM Considering how very little power Bin Laden would have without the Bushes and how little chance W's re-election bid would've had without Bin Laden, it's easy to see how these theories get their start. My personal opinion is that we're talking about two shameless opportunists who took advantage of the situation, but I'll admit that I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there has been more cooperation between them than that.
AgentMGD	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 11:13 AM i agree with Ghost
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 12:59 PM all of u and ur conspiracy theories... this prove u speak of... just like the moon landing people think it was fake cause of stupid things that have been proven wrong and to just be conspiracy theories... yes it was set up... by the terrorists.. sure it was a horrible day but mroe people die of other things like collatoral damage is a big word for oops we missed civilians = dead... sure the government is corrupt but i do not believe they would go to such measures.. most governments are corrupt and it usually doesn't lead to death..
desiderata	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:33 PM AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard. CREW Charles Burlingame, 51, Herndon, Va.* David M. Charlebois, 39, Washington, D.C* Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md.* Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Virginia* Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Virginia* Renee A. May, 39, Baltimore, Md* PASSENGERS Paul Ambrose, 32, Washington, D.C.* Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif* Mary Jane (MJ) Booth, 64, Falls Church, Va.* Bernard Curtis Brown, 11, Washington, D.C.* Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif.* William Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md.* Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md.* Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va.* Asia Cottom, 11, Washington, D.C.* James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md.* Rodney Dickens, 11, Washington, D.C.* Eddie Dillard, Alexandria, Va.* Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va.* Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev.* Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md.* Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.* Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Md.* James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C.* Wilson "Bud" Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.* Darlene Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.* Richard Gabriel, 54, Great Falls, Va.* Ian J. Gray, 55, Columbia, Md.* Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.* Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va.* Steven D. Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va.* Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va.* Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif.* Yvonne Kennedy, 62, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia* Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va.* Karen A. Kincaid, 40, Washington, D.C.* Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va.* Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, Calif.* Christopher Newton, 38, Anaheim, Calif.* Barbara Olson, 45, Great Falls, Va* Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif.* Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, Calif.* Robert R. Ploger, 59, Annandale, Va.* Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va.* Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Maryland* John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va.* Diane Simmons, Great Falls, Va.* George Simmons, Great Falls, Va.* Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif.* Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y* Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va.* Hilda E. Taylor, 62, Forestville, Md* Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va.* Sandra Teague, 31, Fairfax, Va.* Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Maryland.* John D. Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md.* Vicki Yancey, 43, Springfield, Va.* Shuyin Yang, 61, Beijing, China* Yuguag Zheng, 65, Beijing, China" id="184615">Here's are the people who died on the "flight." I google. AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77,* from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard. CREW Charles Burlingame, 51, Herndon, Va.* David M. Charlebois, 39, Washington, D.C* Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md.* Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Virginia* Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Virginia* Renee A. May, 39, Baltimore, Md* PASSENGERS Paul Ambrose, 32, Washington, D.C.* Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif* Mary Jane (MJ) Booth, 64, Falls Church, Va.* Bernard Curtis Brown, 11, Washington, D.C.* Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif.* William Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md.* Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md.* Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va.* Asia Cottom, 11, Washington, D.C.* James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md.* Rodney Dickens, 11, Washington, D.C.* Eddie Dillard, Alexandria, Va.* Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va.* Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev.* Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md.* Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.* Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Md.* James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C.* Wilson "Bud" Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.* Darlene Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.* Richard Gabriel, 54, Great Falls, Va.* Ian J. Gray, 55, Columbia, Md.* Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.* Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va.* Steven D. Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va.* Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va.* Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif.* Yvonne Kennedy, 62, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia* Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va.* Karen A. Kincaid, 40, Washington, D.C.* Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va.* Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, Calif.* Christopher Newton, 38, Anaheim, Calif.* Barbara Olson, 45, Great Falls, Va* Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif.* Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, Calif.* Robert R. Ploger, 59, Annandale, Va.* Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va.* Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Maryland* John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va.* Diane Simmons, Great Falls, Va.* George Simmons, Great Falls, Va.* Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif.* Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y* Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va.* Hilda E. Taylor, 62, Forestville, Md* Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va.* Sandra Teague, 31, Fairfax, Va.* Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Maryland.* John D. Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md.* Vicki Yancey, 43, Springfield, Va.* Shuyin Yang, 61, Beijing, China* Yuguag Zheng, 65, Beijing, China*
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:33 PM I don’t buy it! I personally think that GW is a mindless puppet and possibly the worse President the country has ever had but I DO NOT believe that the US government orchestrated the horrendous events that took place on September 11th 2001. Not that there aren’t a host of reasons to despise the United States but these events were devised and funded by a small group of Muslim extremist who believe that all things “West” are evil. To them, it’s a religious war (a “jihad”) and something that is all too familiar to that part of the world dating way back to the beginnings of time. AgentMGD---- “the airplane crashing into the Pentagon was definitely a hoax” Nope! I was less than 15 miles from the Pentagon when it happened and I had a client that lives in the Ritz Carlton in George Town with a bird’s eye view of the Pentagon who witnessed the plane coming in! It was real!
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 1:44 PM Barbara Olson was a CNN news reporter who died on that flight.
Svensta	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 2:51 PM I cannot believe people think a hoax of this level could POSSIBLY be perpetrated. I'm shocked.
EmpireDay3	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:08 PM to believe that it was a conspiracy or hoax, you must first believe that the government / those involved are actually smart enough to think it up and pull it off. Right there is where the logic trail ends for me....
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:15 PM internet sites
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:16 PM why wouldnt the fbi take the videos away tehy did have to watch them
tooles	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 3:40 PM I think it's pretty inhuman to say someone could willingly 'let' an atrocity like that happen. Show some respect for the dead here, guys. A lot of innocent people are gone, and objectifying them with slanderous political talk is not the right way to recognize the loss.
sinai	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 4:23 PM yeah it isn't right to politize the death of thousands of people... 'course we've always done that in any attack/war/military action/ we've ever been in. and no i don't buy the conspiracy shit, mostly because bush is too stupid to formulate a coherent sentence half the fucking time, let alone orchestrate something like that. aand the cia couldnt sort out traffic after a dodger game, let alone aid bush in a plan like that. it was a horrific terrorist attack, albeit one that had absolutly nothing to do with iraq
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 4:42 PM nope not noe thing to do with it
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:07 PM Tooles, Do you believe that the dead in this would prefer us to bury our collective heads in the sand and just forget about it? “objectifying them with slanderous political talk is not the right way to recognize the loss.” I respectfully disagree! Political talk and debate is what makes this country great IMHO and MANY have died to protect the 1st amendment rights that allow just this kind of thing! Discussion is a GOOD thing my friend and again IMHO, A VERY appropriate way to “recognize the loss” as you put it. I will not forget what happened, EVER!
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:09 PM hey did u know "your right to bear arms" isnt that everyone gets guns and shit... thats jsut a lame loophole excuse.. originally it was just the right to allow people to bear arms for a war to fight or w/e.. but w/e
Dizeazed	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:23 PM I'm 50/50 on the issue.
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:46 PM George Mason 2) To protect yourself from others that wish you harm. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson " id="184699">Perhaps, I’ve heard that argument before. You’re referring to the “well regulated militia” part. I would argue that it is there for two primary reasons. 1) To provide for your own protection against a tyrannical government. Though it’s hard to fight against this government today considering that one third of our own income goes to supply them with weapons that can be used against the citizens. "When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. . . . I ask, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor. . . ." George Mason 2) To protect yourself from others that wish you harm. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:52 PM Oh yea K9VIN, do you realize that you skipped from the 1st to the 2nd amendment there? But you’re Canadian right?
jimbobber1985	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 5:55 PM ok i know this happened a few weeks ago but is it true that tony blair had to talk goerge bush out of bombing the hq of al jazera tv station? if it is true, i dont think any further evidence is needed that dubya is a nut job. sorry, bit off topic there
tooles	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 6:38 PM I sure wasn't saying this should be silenced or forgotten. I'm a political science student, and I 100% agree with you about the greatness and necessity of debate in our society. What I disagree with is the way that a human loss committed by and endorsed by terrorists can be trivialized and become the focus of our debate. Terrorism is fueled by our retaliations; what is really needed in this time is not more security, but less; not more police freedom, but less; not more military aggression, but less. So by pointing fingers and making this into a "fix-it" game, we're doing a disservice to the people who lost their lives, to the people who are being arrested unfairly, and the people who are dying in conflicts that are founded in misunderstanding. So in some ways, imemine, I'm coming from the same place as you...then again I'm a Canuck, so what do I know?
K3VIN	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 6:43 PM err... america out of like all the democratic countries has the worst gun murder rate.. so is it really protectinog people.. funny how canada is against them and less people die.. even if u did per population cause america has more people.. guns kill more helpless people then save them
imemine	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 7:30 PM Tooles, Cool! Just checking!…..and the “Canuck” ---reference to Kevin was about understanding the United States Bill of Rights, not a slant toward Canadians. I have no beef with Canadians what so ever! Cool? Kevin, We are just an angry lot, it really has nothing to do with guns!
tooles	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 7:56 PM Yeah, we're cool. Ridiculously cool.
desiderata	Date: December 13, 2005 @ 9:22 PM Terrorism is not "fueled by our retaliations," it is fueled by hatred and ideological zealotry, with civilians as targets. Here's my favorite Barry Goldwater quote. The guy was wrong about some things, but this makes sense, especially post-Sept. 11. "If an enemy power is bent on conquering you, and proposes to turn all of his resources to that end, he is at war with you: and you - unless you contemplate surrender - are at war with him. Moreover - unless you contemplate treason - your objective, like his, will be victory. Not "peace" but victory." Also, I like Canada.
sinai	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 1:13 AM although, it must be said, that if you're sitting there worrying about dying in a terrorist attack, then you are the biggest pussy on go'd green earth. your chances of that happening are so remote its almost uncalculatable, so stop being a paranoid bitch. this world will never be completely safe; never was, so stop buying into everything every gov't businessman tells you. the sky is not falling.
sinai	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 1:14 AM oh yeah, and stop starting wars for the fuck of it.
tooles	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 1:31 AM Desiderata: I'm sure I speak on behalf of all of Canada when I say thanks for liking us . I have to say, despite how much I completely endorse the Goldwater quote, I disagree with the implication that terrorists like Al Qaeda want to 'conquer' us. They have specific aims: liberation of Palestine, worldwide conversion to Islam, heck, I don't know what else. To view this as a territory-based, or even population-based, conflict is to miss the point and fact of the situation. Think of the Cold War: it wasn't that we wanted to take the Soviet Union's land, or to kill their people, or steal all their stuff, and they didn't want to do any of that to us. It was about differing ideologies; it was about economics; it was about human rights (sort of). We didn't knock down the Berlin Wall by threat of force, we got Mr. Gorbachev to tear it down for us. The conflict between western democracies and fanatical religious terrorists like Al Qaeda, or even the Klu Klux Klan, is also a conflict of ideology that will not be won with force.
shadowself	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 3:27 AM Just picture a retort from me here where I am all pissed off at the subject line and where I write about how astonished I am that people can possibly think it is a big conspiracy. I am just too fuckin lazy to vent right now.
k-smoove	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 6:06 PM
tooles	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 6:13 PM Why don't you present us with some evidence to support your claims? Quote a weblink to a news story or book, or recommend some authors or journals that we can evaluate. Otherwise it's going to be pretty hard to accept your story.
k-smoove	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 6:49 PM I did .. in my first posting.. need it again? ok: www.infowars.com www.gcnlive.com (follow the directions I wrote in my 1st posting for this site) Books: Antichrist 666 & The Illuminati by: William Josiah Sutton New World Order by: A. Ralph Epperson Unseen Hand by: A. Ralph Epperson Behold A Pale Horse by: William Cooper, Milton DVD's: Martial Law 9-11 Rise of The Police State, The Illuminati, Order of Death, Beyond Treason Websites: http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Chemtrails.html http://www.spychips.com/ This shit is just scratchin the surface... All of the DVD'S I mentioned can be bought from the site: www.infowars.com Also that site hosts dozens of links to other sources of info, so there ya go. But, like I said in my 1st posting, since I have a copy of the Martial Law DVD, I can send a copy 2 any1 willing to check it out. That way u peep it then make up ya own mind about wat u see.
tooles	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 9:44 PM From “The Antichrist 666" by Sutton: on Charles Darwin: "Thus this "Theory of Evolution" spread throughout the world as a huge tidal wave carrying on its crest infidelity, threatening to drown out the truths of the Genesis account of God's Creation." (Taken from an amazon.com review) From another review on amazon.com of “The Illumunati 666" by Sutton: For example, did you know that almost every major President of the U.S. is a member of the Freemasons? Did you know that George W. Bush, Jr. is a member of the Skull & Bones? Did you know that all U.S. money and the Federal Reserve is governed by spiritualists? From the anomalies-unlimited site: “Politics is a means of preventing people from taking part in what properly concerns them.” Paul Valery (1871-1945) I'm not gonna argue beliefs on here, but I'm not going to support these sources, man. Sorry dude.
K3VIN	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 9:58 PM i saw a video long ago that showed bushes great grand father or something funding the nazi party
orgasmotron	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 10:38 PM from the passenger list: Diane Simmons, Great Falls, Va.* as in... "i'm tom tucker... and i'm diane simmons!" it must be conspiracy! they stole names from family guy! am i joking??? you'll never know...
onewhodreams	Date: December 14, 2005 @ 11:25 PM This is the DVD you need to see. http://www.911inplanesite.com/
tooles	Date: December 15, 2005 @ 2:24 AM I've followed a few of the links off of that page, onewhodreams, and there are photographs and stories that look and sound compelling. BUT: There is no documentation of these pictures or stories. There is no attempt made to allow the reader to analyze the validity of the information presented. Now, a periodical like The New York Times or, here in Canada, The Globe and Mail, have proven track records of reporting information. I can cross-reference these sources with other newspapers and journals, and sometimes, when they deal with local events, I can validate their claims with my own senses. But sites like thepowerhour.com or arcticbeacon.citymaker.com do not receive scholarly positive review, and I have no reason to trust their reporting. They do make entertaining reads.
TameasDust	Date: December 15, 2005 @ 8:23 AM nope
BlackMage	Date: December 15, 2005 @ 9:27 AM I'm glad I don't care.
GreatGooglyM...	Date: December 15, 2005 @ 10:16 AM "There are evil men in this world who are bent on destroying their enemies. America and its secularism and pro-Israeli stance is viewed as the enemy. It's that simple." Hmm... ...and why would that be?
desiderata	Date: December 15, 2005 @ 12:49 PM I don't care if we give enormous aid packages to Israel, if every other woman in America shows her hair in public and watches 'Sex and the City' more often than she prays, or if we have troops stationed in the Middle East and have had past blunders in that region of the world. It still doesn't justify killing 2000+ civilians. It wasn't war time where they were trying to aim at a munitions site and accidentally hit a hospital. It was an attack perpetrated against civilians with the sole purpose of striking fear and proving a point. That's never OK.
sinai	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 1:08 AM well you might not care that we have troops and middle eastern countries, and several "blunders" (ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome for your understatement of the day) have occured, but they sure do huh?
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:07 AM thirdworldtraveler.com/US_Thirdworld/dictators.html nonviolence.org corrupt.org crimesofwar.org 911pi.com whatreallyhappened.com crownemperorbush.tyo.ca 911review.org unansweredquestions.org hail-to-the-thief.org 911timeline.net
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:16 AM Sorry to burst your bubble but Moses and Pharoah and the Exodus - never happened. Absolutely no archeological evidence that the REd Sea ever drowned Pharoah's soldiers. Ramses'mummy was found safe and sound in his tomb. He never sent his army to chase the fleeing Israelis. It was all fabricated, as was most of the bible, to generate fear of the unknown - a process used by religions to control people. 20% of America believes that Elvis is still alive. 40% of America voted for Bush mostly from the biblebelt. And most Americans still believe that the earth was made 4000 years ago in 6 days and that Adam was the first man. My Karma ran over your Dogma.
desiderata	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:23 AM There is not point to continuing this discussion. :ch
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:36 AM http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html read about Operation Northwoods You oughta know. Look into the series of events leading up to 911; it was a 'bet' on 3000 people dying; Sept10 - a power failure in WTC; sept11 - bombs were put beneath planes to implode; the planes were not manned; remote guided planes; off the radar for 40 minutes; drone planes; gov't insiders; no interception; firemen heard bombs go off; air controllers were relieved of duty before it happened; ...... I have friends in NYC who would deny this but I wouldn't put anything past the US gov't.
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:43 AM http://www.williambowles.info/911/911_comp.html
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 2:47 AM http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/JCS1962abc.html
GreatGooglyM...	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 10:42 AM Good point szadawn!
zedsalt	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 11:41 AM Ah, the joys of living in a time when anyone can freely spread the most ridiculous brand of misinformation with no real consequence! Sometimes I wish that the people who actually buy into it could hear what the perpetrators think of them, but then, that would cut down severely on the emails I get from people who take The Onion and their like as "hard news". I would really miss that.
shadowself	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 1:54 PM Here's another great link that has stories similar to this. It's just as credible as all the other sources posted in this thread, and has the same intelligent reader base. http://www.weeklyworldnews.com
desiderata	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 4:03 PM Some people out there are cooler than the other people out there. They make me smile. Thanks for broadening my horizons, Shadowself.
szadawn	Date: December 16, 2005 @ 7:30 PM "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Ignorant = ignore it. The willfully blind.
k-smoove	Date: December 17, 2005 @ 1:46 PM Did u see this Tooles? if not u mite wanna .... Judge for yourself http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3959795289075968133&q=propaganda
desiderata	Date: December 17, 2005 @ 1:59 PM I'm neither silent nor blind. I'm just tired of arguing with the likes of you.
LegoBreaks	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 10:42 AM k-smoove, szadawn and all the others brave enough to face up to the truth: thank you. To the ostriches; Guys. I hate to have to tell you this. But a satanic secret society owns the United States, and 9/11 is just the tip of the iceberg. So frequently your replies include phrases such as "I can't believe"..., "hard to accept"... "bush is too stupid"... and my personal favorite, "most governments are corrupt and it usually doesn't lead to death"... Right. Yeah, nah, and it doesn't usually lead to death when the same people who backed the Nazis are that government. Many of the sceptics are simply relying on the argument 'it's too awful to comprehend, ergo: it can't be true.' I wish that were the case. But for those willing to look, there is ample evidence for the complete and utter inflitration of most, if not all of the most powerful organisations and countries in our world. Welcome to the end times. This point in time is a crossroads for every soul on this planet. Will you be a slave to the new world order? Or will you resist at any cost, including death? I challenge every nay-sayer to watch Martial Law 9-11: Rise of the Police State as has been mentioned already. If your conviction is so strong you have nothing to worry about, however I would love to see anyone prove that the claims in that documentary are false. I hold on to the hope that us humans will figure out the truth and evolve collectively to a higher plane before hell on earth comes to fruition. Most importantly, do not submit to an identity chip, how ever beneficial they lyingly tell you it is. Interestingly, the bible predicted these I.D. chips 2000 years before our current technology was perfected. Check out Revelations And [the Antichrist] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save [except] he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:16-18 KJV IBM are currently at the forefront of biometric RFID tags. Oh yeah, that's right and they made the machines that stamped NUMBERS on the Jews in concentration camps too. Some are already speaking today of those who have willingly submitted to a chip in their hand. And yes, it is the right hand. And what are they doing with this chip? They are BUYING and SELLING and soon there will be no other means to conduct business transactions. Do your homework, there is a lot more riding on this than you are allowing your mind to acknowledge. Peace be with you, brothers and sisters. And if you have felt what I'm saying on a spiritual level as well as intellectual, it may be time to live your life as a child of God. Jesus came here to save us, and he'll be back.
sinai	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 10:44 AM will he give me that five bucks he owes me when he does?
zedsalt	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 11:12 AM I have a very thick book titled "A History of the End of the World". It's a collection of hundreds, maybe thousands, of examples of instances where people were completely and utterly convinced that everything they had heard and/or read about the End Times was coming to pass, and the End was indeed imminent. I look at it this way: 1)If the End was to come during my lifetime, who would care who accurately predicted it? and B)If there's anything I would do differently in my life were I absolutely CERTAIN that the End was near, then I have issues that require my immediate attention, End or no End.
LegoBreaks	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 12:14 PM zedsalt, Your first statement does not show that my argument has a fallacy. Just because others have been convinced in the past,and it turned out to be a false alarm, should we resign ourselves to the "boy who cried wolf" situation and dismiss every other argument of its type from then onwards? Of course this issue is not conclusively provable, because it relies on your perception of the world and of spirituality. If this conflicts with your belief or non-belief in the "other side", then of course you will not accept this theory. Regarding your second point, well I care who accurately predicted the end, which is more the next step and the end of the world as we know it. If they were right about that, then maybe they have more credibility than I have previously given the bible. To be honest, I don't care who has the truth, but if I find that someone has it and it's independently verifiable by watching world events, that will positively influence my trust in it as a source. The same goes for George Orwell. His book 1984 basically pointed out in plain english what has begun right now, with "big brother" surveillance through the multitude of illegal wiretaps and searches, "security" cameras, those fucking "Guardian Angel" NWO spies that have turned up where I live in Aotearoa New Zealand with the ILLUMINATI LOGO of the pyramid and all seeing eye on them. Or double-speak - the US is "liberating" Iraq, bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to that country and soon Iran as well. You are right that one who is not ready for the end of this age should be seriously looking at their life, and preferably should have been even before they knew this was going to happen. But there is nothing wrong with re-evaluating a situation when new information comes to light. For example, if you were standing on a platform and someone said whoa shit that's starting to crumble, and you could get out in time, then shouldn't you do that? For the situation we face, it is my belief that our hope for a way off the platform is to distance ourselves from the NWO mob mentality that is developing and will surely suck unsuspecting souls down with it. When the platform of so-called "democracy" we cling to crumbles and we fall down to bare-faced, no-more-playing-games police state dictatorship orchestrated by lunatics who want to install satan on the throne of the world, we may well have lost our chance to step off. Truly, it is not my desire to convince those that do not want to believe, because someone has to be open to the facts for them to really begin to see. Some people have decided they don't want to believe this is going on because it is too terrifying, and make the facts fit that decision in their head. I am not aiming this at you, for I have no idea who you are and how your mind works. But for those that persistently refuse to see what is plainly in front of them, I must politely ask them to step aside and make room for the real heads who know what the fuck is going down. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping as many people as possible wake up in time, but there are those for whom no amount of evidence will be enough, and in that situations, there's only so much I can do. Thanks for your reply
LegoBreaks	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 12:17 PM By the way, I forgot to mention in my first post that I absolutely agree that bush is too stupid to orchestrate something as all-encompassing as this. He is merely a lacky, the real rulers prefer to remain anonymous and pull strings on the puppet from way above the stage.
jack	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 1:57 PM The English royal family are lizards and control the world drug trade too, you know!
TegidC	Date: January 20, 2006 @ 2:26 PM If George Bush orchestrated it, why would he allow that documentary to be aired? For a man with enough control of a country to fake a terrorist attack and get away with it , the whole idea of him allowing the idea to be disscussed so freely seems a bit of a contrast? I agree, the terrorist attacks didn't actualy help the terrorists, they made the attack and now thier country has been invaded, why did they do it? Don't be so foolish to belive the most radical thing i.e. it was the government attacking themselves, this is foolish. If there is another explination and higher powers etc. performed this act, then do you think you would have a clue about how it was done, why it was done and who they are? I doubt it, some one smart enough to rule the world in secret wouldn't allow the plebs like us to know. Conspiracy theories are too far fetched and propaganda has made it so I see them as well, unbelievable now. It seems just as a short sighted to believe a conspiracy as to believe the news, how ever you find out it's going to be bias, the news toward the government, conspiracies against (speaking in general terms). In the end what you believe depends solely on who you trust. Governments are too smart for these generalised answers and explinations, polotics isn't as simple as, "Hey we'll destroy the Twin towers, call it terrorism and you'll get re-elected G! Coffee break!" Don't be so naive. I don't know which is more likely to be true, as truth is a form, and nothing in life is a perfect form (Politics and Plato, a horrible mix) so I'll opt that niether explinations are. P.s. Lego, you know your stuff, I see what your saying, I just disagree. P.p.s. There was an argument against the genesis theory earliar, Note, I am not a Christian but the misreading of the Bible greatly annoys me. God does not work by a 24 hour clock, a day to God would be the equivilent of a million years, if you see a day as a million years and compare wih a scientific explination of the big bang it makes more sense. "In the beggining there was God" - The big band consisted of all the mass in the universe, it just happened, same thing, science coul infact be an explination for the movement of God but that is a theadin itself. Genesis is a metaphor because people in ancient times could not understand the concept of the world bein made over millenia. Most of the bible consists of allegories or metaphor. Much is fabricated, this is true, it is by no means a factual book but all religious books were written by incredibly wise men, it is not as simple as, "It is made up."
zedsalt	Date: January 21, 2006 @ 11:33 AM "...the terrorist attacks didn't actualy help the terrorists"? What a relief! For a while there, I was beginning to think the attacks were causing a growing divide between the major faiths, that the U.S. government was putting an inordinate amount of money into military action while ignoring domestic needs (you know, like the former Soviet government did...where was it?...oh yeah- Afghanistan!), that there was a shrinkling division between church and state in a number of countries, that there was more and more secrecy in the U.S. government and unwillingness to compromise, that the U.S. took down one of Al Quaeda earliest targets in Iraq consequently causing/increasing bad feelings toward America in the Middle East, etc., etc., etc.
TegidC	Date: January 24, 2006 @ 4:20 PM The American government is as secretive towards itself as it always has been. Countries are divided as they have always been. Religions are bound to be divided as they have differing views on how you should lead your life. I realise the statement was too broad. I apologise. Point still remains, how useful was it to the terrorists to attack? The American government has now used it as an excuse to declare a war on terror, i.e. "anywhere we suspect may be a terrorist state, regardless of wether anyone else argues against it." Using this they invaded Afganistan, and stil remain to have military force there. And you can't seriously compare America's economic state with the Soviets because of the war, money has been lost, it is not an economic disaster. My point is, I can understand why people could want to have a conspiracy theory cause - did the benifits of the attacks to the terrorists outweigh the losses. I say no.
LegoBreaks	Date: January 27, 2006 @ 7:51 PM Well i disagree with that, when you look at who the real 'terrorists' are, behind 9 - 11. Their gains certainly outweigh their losses. They've managed to start really bringing in the new world order and if your too blind to see it happening before you, then i pity your shocked expression when the storm troopers come knocking on your door. Your certainly welcome to your own believes and can discount it all as 'paranoid conspiracy theories' and pretend it isnt going on, that however will not save you, when it becomes too late....
tooles	Date: January 28, 2006 @ 3:39 AM You're right, man. When those stormtroopers come knocking, I'll be blushing so hard when I don't have any tea for them. Man, will they ever be pissed. Good thing I've got my trusty lightsaber.
tooles	Date: January 28, 2006 @ 3:50 AM Makes lightsaber noises Vrrooomnnn vroimmmnen! Obi-Wan has taught you well...
pmscpc	Date: January 28, 2006 @ 7:34 AM This thread is interesting; over a year ago I received, through the post in the UK, a DVD calling to reopening the 911 Enquiry for many of the reason outlined above i.e. The republicans did it all. Despite being in the UK, and effectively not having anything to do with anything in the US, I did wonder why they sent me a copy (and some other people in my tiny little out of the way town). It is nice to see that finally Americans can talk about it openly, without being dispatched to Guantanamo or worse. One major thing does stick in my mind about the whole twin towers thing - none of the official answers as to why BOTH towers collapsed after such a short time actually obey the laws of physics. They are, after all, the only tower blocks in the world to fall down during a fire. There's nothing that burns hot enough to melt the steel that keeps these things up. Essentially, if the towers collapsed so easily, then anyone in a tower block in any part of the world should be very concerned. But no one is, because to date, the WTC was the ONLY building to collapse in such a situation. Architects do plan for such unlikely events as fires and an airliner smashing in to them, and the forces involved are much less than that of a string wind. Unlucky ? Don't know, but one thing is for sure: For such an important event, the official answers are just not very convincing.
LegoBreaks	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 4:50 AM its totally an inside job, no question asked, the bullshit the media feeds us is just stupidity. I hope the human race can wake up in time to whats happining around us.
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 5:19 AM the same people who buy into all of these conspiracies are the same idiots who are always blaming the government for all of their problems. like the people who started saying that the government bombed the damn near new orleans so it would rupture during katrina. personally if i were incharge i'd give each one of them a 1st class ticket to the nearest 3rd world country, sense they are never happy on their own.
LegoBreaks	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 5:57 AM And what where supposed to believe the 'truth' that the media feeds us? I think if you look into with an open mind you may be unplessently suprised to find the truth at what is going on around us.
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 6:09 AM i have an openmind, im just not gullible. its never wise to look for the faults in every single thing you encounter.
LegoBreaks	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 6:22 AM so your going to bastadize the term 'conspiracy' like most of the other 'open minded people'. I think you with all people should take an interest in what power the global elite have and where they are directing us. If we as human beings could wake up and stand up to this we have a chance, if the majority are ignorant and choose to be willing blind then we have none.... It is unfortunate that people from the influence of the media and greater powers have bastadized the term 'conspiracy' and anything that goes on it that catorgary does not happen, it is because of this great evils still happen. A human axiom: Absolute power corrupts absolutly. also.. the truth cannot coexist with corruption. Because we choose not to believe the truth, corruption is occuring exponetionly, we are heading towards some very dark times whether you like it or not my brothers and sisters.
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 7:24 AM LegoBreaks Date: February 28, 2006 @ 6:22 AM "so your going to bastadize the term 'conspiracy' like most of the other 'open minded people'. I think you with all people should take an interest in what power the global elite have and where they are directing us. If we as human beings could wake up and stand up to this we have a chance, if the majority are ignorant and choose to be willing blind then we have none...." so what measures have you taken to RISE up against it...any? or are you just repeating popular anti-government bullshit to help your image as a hiphop artist. for a so called corrupt government i live rather well in it.
ChillinBuzz	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 7:35 AM my dogma took a dump in your karma politicians =
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 8:10 AM once a threw a pile of at a brave that was severely allergic to and that fell over and well...
sinai	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 8:29 AM wasn't much of a mighty christian wah-yur was he? was his god armor not strong enough for the dark-sided ?
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 8:32 AM god armor? no that was cheap aluminum, strong goes right through cheap aluminum
zedsalt	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 11:54 AM That's why these aluminum undies are going RIGHT back to the store. That whole "America- love it or leave it" attitude is always good for a laugh...Americans doing the EXACT opposite of their duty as Americans. Yeah, we could stop questioning, stop complaining, stop opposing abuses of the system...or we could be REAL Americans and keep doing what it is we Americans HAVE to do. And for those of you who think "my country right or wrong" means blind obeisance, don't worry- there's plenty of room for you slackers, too, as long as some of us continue to recognize our duty and DO it.
sinai	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 12:21 PM and for the record, why is everyone bitching about "god" in the pledge of allegiance, instead of asking why a democracy even has a pledge of allegiance in the first fucking place?
desiderata	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 12:39 PM "A fucking place?" Look, who are we to go around restricting fucking to certain places? I refuse to abide by these laws! Why don't we all just rise up and avoid government altogether? Since Legoman says that power breeds corruption, and truth cannot exist with corruption, clearly the only option is to take down the power and to create a lawless state where we call live in violent anarchy!
GeneHilbert	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 12:47 PM First and foremost: United States is not a democracy, the USA was founded as a Citizenship Republic "And to the Republic for which it stands..."
EchoMinor	Date: February 28, 2006 @ 3:02 PM yes fucking is limited to places, its not welcome in waiting rooms at doctor offices, target, or even the walmart superstore...they really get upset over it. anyways, im not going to get over worried about some conspiracy that some crazy journalist starts throwing all over the place, apprently he makes a conspiracy about anything... i live happy in this world and thats all that matters to me. and if that time ever comes where america moves to a new world order, oh well, guess it will be time for me to go down fighting, BUT until then im not going to loose hair over it.
zedsalt	Date: March 1, 2006 @ 10:59 AM "and for the record, why is everyone bitching about 'god' in the pledge of allegiance, instead of asking why a democracy even has a pledge of allegiance in the first fucking place?" Y'know, I'm all for the separation of Church and State...history is chock full of examples of what horrors ensue when the two are blended...but I have to go along with you on this one. The idea of reciting the Pledge being mandatory hardly seems American, but where IS it mandatory? I have relatives who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and they were never pressured to say the Pledge in school. Please keep in mind that this is coming from someone who sees freedom FROM religion as an essential element of freedom OF religion, but like you, I really dion't see what the big whoop is.
RayN44	Date: March 18, 2006 @ 12:10 AM For people who believe a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon Get you head out of your asses and look at this. http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html which clearly states: The model indicates the most critical effects were from the mass moving at high velocity. "At that speed, the plane itself is like a sausage skin," Sozen said. "It doesn't have much strength and virtually crumbles on impact." There is no way a 757 could have done the damage that was done to the Pentagon. Now look at this. http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videos/uncropped.html The apparent plane mostly obscured by the foreground structure in the first frame is much too small to be a Boeing 757. The apparent vapor trail behind the apparent plane could not have been produced by the turbofan engines of a jetliner. It is consistent with the exhaust plume of a missile. The white color of the explosion in the second frame cannot be explained as the combustion of jet fuel. It indicates the use of explosives.
BIR	Date: March 18, 2006 @ 7:49 AM Yes! so lets, Mosh. Remember when,..Saddam tryed to kill Bush Sr. Remember when,..Ben laden's family gave Bush Jr an oilwell for a Gift. (laden's are old bush family friends) "to believe that it was a conspiracy or hoax, you must first believe that the government / those involved are actually smart enough to think it up and pull it off" well if you think Bush broke out a crayola and came up with this your not thinking it out enough. The goverment pays people to think of all kinds of un-thinkables,It's happening right now as I type this. Payed for by our tax dollars!! "There's nothing that burns hot enough to melt the steel that keeps these things up".. it takes 1500 deg to just soften steel! turbines run at around 600deg idle. George W. Bush, Jr. is a member of the Skull & Bones. That is 100%true. did you know that almost every major President of the U.S. is a member of the Freemasons this is also somewhat true. The info is not hard to find. Those who put full trust in our goverment are the fucking idiots!! True.i added the word full The white color of the explosion in the second frame cannot be explained as the combustion of jet fuel. True,also the flame pattern is wrong. It does not go far enough into the building. vapor trail..if there was one could not be missed,and if the plane was off with no RPM you would see a dif vapor trail from high speed oxygen and water seperation.This is present @ 180mph,you can sometimes see it happen in a nascar race. and why dont they just show the whole pentagon video.. Why did NYC phones fail,before the crash? Why were air trafic controllers relived of duty? Why did firemen report hearing a loud explosion in building 2,..just Before the 2nd impact? Why No Air Force interseption,They were told to stand down. why did our goverment blow the fuck out of a country in the middle of the night and kill more people than the number of people killed on 9/11? Innocent Familys sleeping!! I dont blame them for fighting us,look what did to there Friends and Familys..we Basicly Invaded their Land!! I know if that happened here in the USA everybody with a gun would be fighting back!! Same shoe Diffrent foot,same outcome and you know thats true. War is stupid! Life is a gift! Remember we are all in this together..some of us don't approve of our goverments actions. And.. Lets try not to name call people,it's just not a nice thing to do. To all who have fallen for no just cause.
aflunky	Date: March 18, 2006 @ 7:58 AM Give me a few more months and you'll hear my views on the govt and it's conspiracies.
EvilPicnic	Date: March 18, 2006 @ 8:43 AM This thread is funny. Obviously nothing can excuse terrorist atrocities such as that on 9/11, but the US is not in the right here by a long shot. (The idea that the US government master minded 9/11 is preposterous, btw. It makes for amusing reading, though.) Bush cynically used the (understandable) anger of the US people to bounce the country into a war which absolutely nothing to do with the atrocity, other than being in the same region of the world as the perpetrators. The attack on Iraq was brutal (I remember a BBC report on the illegality of the type of phosphorous grenade tactics the US troops were using) and the whole dehumanisation of the killing of thousands of innocent men, woman and children into 'collateral damage' is pretty disgusting. And what of the WMD's? The US and UK completley ignored the UN, and the independant investigators reports (one of whom commited suicide over the whole thing. More collateral damage.) Guantanamo bay? How on earth can you lock someone up without a charge, without even telling them what what they're suspected of, hold them indefinately, and still claim to be a country which cares about justice. What about the transportation of suspects to Egypt where torture is legal? The Freedom of Information Act has forced the US to release over 5000 pages of transcripts of guntanamo interrogations. One of them records the trial of since-released British prisoner Feroz Abbassi in which Abbassi vainly pleads with his judge (a US airforce colonel) to reveal the evidence against him, something which he says he has a right to hear under international law. The colonel replies, 'Mr Abbassi your conduct is unacceptable and this is your absolute final warning. I do not care about international law. I do not want to hear the words international law. We are not concerned about international law.' I think that speaks for itself. I'm not anti-American or anti-anybody. I don't believe in stupid conspiracy theories nor do I believe that all the bad things in the world are the US's fault. But I do believe that the middle-east is getting the shitty and of the stick. Both the West and the East have been treating the area like their own personal playground for the past hundreds of years, funding one side, funding another, invading here, invading there, cutting up the maps willy-nilly. It's all in an awful state, and the area of the world which was once the most enlightened (surgery, medicine, algebra etc. all were invented there) is now a dungheap full of pissed off, angry radicals, fed up of being fucked over by us. And we wonder why they hate us so much. That was long and unnecessary and I daresay no-one will read it, but that don't really matter. I was just venting.

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