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Stop killing your own

Jessy	Date: August 2, 2006 @ 8:53 PM Hello! There are different religious alignments in Islam, you know like Catholics and Protestants. Do you remember how we used to fight…? Well, they do too, the Muslims. The dictator Saddam Hussein managed to put a lid on that fight in Iraq – by fear and terror. Saddam wasn't a problem to the west world. Actually, he was never against the western world. I know musicians and DJ from Bagdad that never had to fear Saddam… But, of course Saddam – a dictator among dictators on this poor planet – was a monster to the people who disagreed with him, like the Shiites (members of the branch of Islam that regards Ali and his descendants as the legitimate successors to Muhammad and rejects the first three caliphs) and many others. Iraq was a horrible place for some people but not for all. Iraq was no democracy. There are many countries that aren’t democracies in this world. Why bomb dictatorship? And if we – the west – should bomb dictatorship, why Iraq? Because Iraq is a threat! Why? Remember… 20 years ago people died in Saddam’s torture chambers. Then he was your allied, Mr Hussein, in the war against Iran. What made you change your mind? Why are you so eager on bombing one of the most secularized countries in the Middle East? If you remove the murderer Saddam Hussein, the powerful forces of religious diversity will take over. Muslims against Muslims. Literalism against more liberal interpretations of the religion. Just like we used to have it…over here…before your folks left to find the freedom in the new land, the United States of America. Why bombing? Because Saddam was a threat! Was he? No atom bombs. No al-Qaeda. No Usama. But… Oil. He had oil. Nice to have…huh… By the time of the US invasion, some people (even Americans) tried to explain that if you bomb Iraq the extremists will arrive. Then you’ve got yourself a problem. Now you’ve got yourself a problem. The alternative would have been to support the democratic movement in Iraq. If you care for freedom… Not to kill innocent men, women and children, DJ, musicians, artists, doctors, and your own guys… There’s a strong, very strong, force over there, not only hating you, but hating Saddam, the west, the democracy. You helped them to reach their goals. Can’t say “thank you”… Your President knew this. Everybody knew, but they made you believe this was a war against the evil force, like in Star Wars. Made you believe it had anything to do with 9/11. That’s sad… Iraq was far from al-Qaeda. Far from 9/11. Was… Now the extremists are taking over… You’ve opened the gates to hell… What strikes me while reading your comments is the total lack of contact with the people from the Middle East. Do you know them? Have you met Arabs? Have you, as a loving Christian or whatever you are, ever smoked a water pipe with an Arab or danced with them? Have you ever held their newborn babies in your arms? You are supporting the killing of your own guys. Why? Saddam is worth nothing but a verdict from whatever god there might be, willing to judge him. I pray for your soldiers, but I also pray for the oppressed ethnic groups that now – at this moment – are mislead by extremists. I pray for the mother who looses her child this morning, by a bomb on a market place in Bagdad. Placed their by another Muslim, sad enough. (Remember the fight between the Christians…) Help them! Guide them! Don’t fight them. Show some respect for other people’s way of living and other people’s religious beliefs. How can you judge them? They were never a threat. Your own people fooled you. It’s all about the money. If it was all about love and freedom, you would have supported the internal Iraqi democratic movement. Stop killing your own. You are such wonderful people; really love you! So please, just stop it. Love forever, Jessy
GTOriginal	Date: August 2, 2006 @ 9:23 PM Awesome Jessy, I could not agree with you more. This "war on terror" IS an act of terror, and somehow we as Americans let a freaking moron sneak in to a position of power and use this buzz phrase to justify invading other countries and killing many thousands. Our armed forces are awesome, the best in the world, but they are being horribly misused and wiped out as well by a dictator named Bush. I believe he is a criminal against humanity, plain and simple. Notice I did not say "war criminal", because this did not become a "war" until our aggressions were answered. Bless you for this forum Jessy. Gary
hate9wicket	Date: August 2, 2006 @ 9:46 PM Yes, O-I-L but, there is conflicting info out there what the objective is, destabilizing a country to raise the price, one way is to limit production, and insurgency is a good tool to blame for that, plus you help out the Saudis http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/37371/ Of course the Iraqi ownership of oil fields hasn't exactly been made private yet, but do they even have a government yet? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm It is really simple to just say, Saddam was a bad man, yes he was, but we've left plenty of bad guys in office to suit our needs. If we just left him alone, let him cooperate with Weapons inspectors, which I believe he was(UN at least) and so long as he abided by the oil for food program, all would be well. That was his mistake, he got a little greedy. He raised production, pissing off OPEC, lowering the price.... So now we have Exxon/Mobil raking in record profits for the second straight quarter. In some circles an estimated 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead, over 2,500 U.S soldiers dead, untold number wounded and maimed. A Religious Cival War that makes the 100 Years War look like a Roller Derby. Look we got a big problem here that more oil is not going to solve. What exactly is there to replace it? With CO2 levels going higher and higher, we've got crazy ideas out there involving shooting sulfur into the stratosphere to cool the planet.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 2, 2006 @ 10:21 PM The Iraqis do have a government, seemingly being torn apart slowly by the rising violence, I totally agree as far as troops needed to try maintaining some kind of stability, although it doesn't seem to be going so well and the death toll within the soldiers, US and others, is mounting up something frightening. There was a (conspiracy?) theory that this wasn't about oil at all but about money in general, that Saddam, like many countries, have a vast amount of stock in US dollars, the theory went that he may well have wanted to change that stock into Euros, this was raised right before the invasion began, so it was claimed. Whether it is true or not, can anyone say, however you can't tell who knows the real story anymore. Someone is making an awful amount of money off these wars... and at the cost of human lives, it can never be justified, not for "freedom", "democracy" or "for the good of the people" in those countries. What angers me more is the apparant stance from my own government, not because they side with war starters over some ill-gotten "facts" over the reasons behind it but because they seem to be centering their attention at matters away from home. It's all very well having new acts passed in parliament, or whatever system each country has, but when the terrorists feel the need to sow the seeds of hate and destruction on our own doorsteps, no amount of new laws will stop their "retribution" and murdering our own citizens. Will these invasions ever stop this now? I think not.
Fraser	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 12:06 AM People say the Iraqi's want this kind of thing, and watched as America came with bright eyes and glowing hearts. Others say they were pissed and wanted them to go away.
AgentMGD	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 12:16 AM beautifully said,
K3VIN	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 12:35 AM you know like Catholics and Protestants. Do you remember how we used to fight…? used too i agree with everything u said.. but ur lost if u think they have stopped.. christians have been fucking up somebody for centuries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jessy	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 4:43 AM K3, still conflicts but not on a large scale. In Sweden, for example, the Catholic Church was banned for many centuries and all Catholics had to convert to Protestantism. faint: Silly!)
GreatGooglyM...	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 5:01 AM US cares for no freedom or democracy. That's just the bullshit the dumb people believe. While you think about your own killers sent to Iraq, and while you collect money for them, you might want to give also a thought for the Iraqi people, who are just innocent civilians. Soldier dying or losing a limb in the war is well deserved, whereas this happening to a civilian is not.
sinai	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 8:37 AM agreed
GTOriginal	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 9:06 AM Forced Democracy is an OxyMoron. And I repeat, US aggression is terror disguised as war. Fuckin' Pearl Harbor was an act of war. I was raised in the greatest country in the world, now I raise my own kids in the most misguided one. A change in leadership and a series of murder charges against the president is what we need to restore digity to this thing
AbortiveMind	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 9:21 AM Whoah, thank you so much Jessy Being half an arab myself, I absolutely feel your words and I'm glad you expressed them 'cause I wouldn't have been able to do so
sinai	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 9:25 AM which half? ar or ab? sorry, couldn't resist
AbortiveMind	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 9:50 AM the opposition. They asked him where he came from and where he was running to? He said he went to school to pick up some of his stuff (which was the truth) and was heading off to go home. They didn't believed him and told him that he was collaborating with the enemy. They made him sit on his knees and held a gun against his head. His parents ran down to see what all the tumult was about downstairs when they frooze as they looked in the eyes of their son, begging to spare his life and trying to convice them of him speaking the truth. His parents started yelling and screaming and explaining that he was only 15 years old and didn't had to do anything with the enemy. The entire neighbourhood rose its voice to defend the boy. ... they shot him in the head ... He fell down on the street. His mom, crying her soul out of her body, took him in her arms and spent the entire afternoon with her dead son." When she was done telling, she had tears in her eyes, and so had I. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - to justify this war!" id="238347">Hmz I think it's the "Arrrrrr" part Last week I went to visit my aunt. During that week we spent the weekend at her friends' place, an Iraqui family Wonderful and loving people During my stay overthere I had a talk with one of the grandmothers, who flee Iraq beginning of 2006. I asked her how the situation was overthere, I wanted to hear it from someone who's lived it. Being far away from the war, despite all the images on the television, it's still difficult to realize how terrible it is. So then she started telling me how she assisted at the assasination of the son of her neighbour in the middle of the street ... "He was running towards his home, he was only 15 years old. Before entering the building to reach his appartment, he was stopped by people of their own country. They called themselves the opposition. They asked him where he came from and where he was running to? He said he went to school to pick up some of his stuff (which was the truth) and was heading off to go home. They didn't believed him and told him that he was collaborating with the enemy. They made him sit on his knees and held a gun against his head. His parents ran down to see what all the tumult was about downstairs when they frooze as they looked in the eyes of their son, begging to spare his life and trying to convice them of him speaking the truth. His parents started yelling and screaming and explaining that he was only 15 years old and didn't had to do anything with the enemy. The entire neighbourhood rose its voice to defend the boy. ... they shot him in the head ... He fell down on the street. His mom, crying her soul out of her body, took him in her arms and spent the entire afternoon with her dead son." When she was done telling, she had tears in her eyes, and so had I. There is nothing - absolutely nothing - to justify this war!
zedsalt	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 10:59 AM Please add my voice to those calling for everyone to "Stop killing your own", and if I may, I'd like to remind someone that we are ALL each other's "own".
GTOriginal	Date: August 3, 2006 @ 12:46 PM Bless you Zed, bless you Borty, Bless you JESSY Sinai I think she's the middle half, "ra"
zedsalt	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 10:59 AM Erm...I meant "I'd like to remind EVERYONE", not "someone". There isn't any one person in particular I wanterd to remind. I need to keep these things in the right order: wake up, take meds, cruise forums.
zedsalt	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 10:59 AM "Wanterd"? See what I'm sayin'?
GreatGooglyM...	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 11:07 AM wake up.
PrincessTast...	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 11:14 AM How 'bout stop killing period?
AbortiveMind	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 11:26 AM What kind of bloody periods are you talking about? Couldn't resist the word play...
GreatGooglyM...	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 12:24 PM
EchoMinor	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 1:51 PM i had no problem with iraq, that was THERE way of life over there. sure i dont agree with the same things they do but it was their country and their issues. wish my country of america can just focus on our own issues unless threatened etc. didnt see iraq as a threat "a bit warped" but no threat. now north korea i do worry about.
EchoMinor	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 1:53 PM killing will never go away anyways. even if the whole world went peaceful and passive, eventually someones going to find new reasons to shoot the neighbors.
jewsus	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 2:03 PM this is all very true, and quite disturbing when you think about it. the war on iraq was not needed at all. "weapons of mass destruction", more like "weapons of mass distraction". where were they? did you find any mr. bush? no? ok, so why did we go ahead and blow the shit out of the country, when the real enemy, osama, was off in a cave somewhere entirely different? none of bush's foreign policy has made any sense. and i think we all know that by now. well, not all of us i suppose. i still see cars driving around with "GW" stickers all the time. its kinda sickening really. i hated saddam just as much as any other person. ruling a country through fear is no way to go about things. sure, i think he needed to be taken out of office. but was this the right time or way to do it? no, definately not. and do i have the answers as to when a good time would've been? no, i don't. but through all this time, the one thing i hear about the citizens of that country is this: "leave us alone". they don't want us sticking our noses into their business, and you have to respect that. the main thing a country of power can do is help those lesser in strength. but are we really helping anyone by taking their leader, bombing the whole country, and leaving the citizens to basically fend for themselves? no, of course not. we should've sat back and watched from afar. let the people figure out what it is they want to do. maybe there'd be an uprising of a political power that was opposed to saddam. in which case we could help them in anyway they wanted. but its their country, and we should respect them enough to do things on their terms. (not that i have much respect for some of their extremist muslims, but then again, i don't have much respect for any religious extremists) but we're straying from the real issue at hand people. we can't do anything about what has happened these past years. what's done is done. its no longer about complaining about bush and the war in iraq, its about "how the fuck are we going to fix things?" we can't just pull our troops out of iraq, there'd be mass chaos and confusion. we've put ourselves in a very sticky situation, or rather, bush has put us there himself. now we wait for our next move, which will undoubtedly come after bush is out of office. and what will that next move be? .... there's no way of knowing sadly.
ChillinBuzz	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 2:38 PM It's going to get even more complicated... it seems that Cuba is rife with rumours of Fidel Castro's demise... this following bit is a clip from a newscast i read earlier today - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5241258.stm "The president is worried about people in the neighbourhood who seek to destabilise neighbours using economic or other means" Worried? While several countries "attempt" to create a resolution in order to commence a move towards a ceasefire in the Middle East (which seems to be taking an awful long time, with many words and little action) he is saying THAT about Cuba? Forgive me for bringing out the flames but isn't that comment a little hypocritical, considering what is going on in the Middle East right now? I'm not anti-American OR anti-British, however, this method of pretending to sit down with world leaders and sorting out a problem, while INNOCENT people, soldiers and civilians, get blown to pieces, is leaving a very sour taste in mouths, not just those in these countries who believe us Brits and the US are allowing this to happen but our very own people. Do the words of the populations not count anymore? Those who put those in power or those who voted for the oppositions and lost? What the fuck is this world coming to, apart from another major conflict???
GTOriginal	Date: August 4, 2006 @ 3:02 PM Oil? Money? What?? How bout "Got 'im Daddy!" Yep, that's what all the killing is about, one asshole making brownie points with Daddy. The world is coming to um... Saturday, I guess.
pmscpc	Date: August 10, 2006 @ 8:31 AM If anyone is curious as to how ordinary Iraqis feel about the whole thing, visit Bagdhad Burning : http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ This month's entry is about how everyone she knows is leaving Iraq for good. As it isn't censored by FOX or anyone else, some of the more American among you may become disturbed. You have been warned.