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Ten Commandments

dgtzr	Date: August 27, 2003 @ 11:28 PM Is a 2-ton monument of the ten commandments strategically placed outside of a court house a reminder to government of it's moral obligations to the Creator or a blazen threat to all that justice belongs to the secular peers of those who administer justice?
starseven	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 12:15 AM Hail satan.. organized religion has no place in our courts.. people need t keep their god at home, where it belngs... ...
starseven	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 12:17 AM actually.. let me rephrase that.... Biblical Items have no place in our courts... ther eis nothign wrong with having faith.. but the bible is full of shit.. and anyone who studios it with an open mind knows this....The apocrypha, and the dead sea scrolls are both evidence of this
GeneHilbert	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 12:41 AM When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. Quote 2. Notice - protection of divine Providence, We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. Just 2 direct examples of God in the creation of our government - other interesting things is the oath we take in all legal court proceedings. On all US currency, and the fact that the US Senate has a Chaplin and comes to order with a prayer. " id="60236">I've always seen the irony in this. US Declaration of Independence: Quote 1. Notice - "Nature's God entitle them" When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. Quote 2. Notice - protection of divine Providence, We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. Just 2 direct examples of God in the creation of our government - other interesting things is the oath we take in all legal court proceedings. On all US currency, and the fact that the US Senate has a Chaplin and comes to order with a prayer.
starseven	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 12:54 AM yeah.. but the term "god" is not being used to represent the christan god,they are refering to the guidence of a sepreme being of higher power. what that is differs from person to person, and religion to religion.. when i hear "In god we trust" i interpret it as being myself in myself i trust... even though the founders of this counrty were christian.. this is not a christian counrty... it's is full of people from just about every belife system you can imagine.. so the courts do NOT hve the right to impose Christian belifs upon those who do not want it... i persoanlly am HIGHLY offended by the 10 comandments being in front of the court house. as should most people... garbage liek this does not belong in our comunity.. .. it;s not cristanity thats the problem here.. it;s putting ones faith in the bible.. not in god.. that;s the problem...the bible , even if every word was true.. we woudl never know.. because we will probably never know what was in it.. it has been misinterpreted hundreds of times, mistranlated.. and even outright edited.. the sectin that did not meet the agenda of those in power.... taken out "see the earlier metioned Aporypha" ospel of Thomas, The Life of Adam and eve, ect. ...it;s not God that needs to be taken out.. it;s the bible
TameasDust	Date: August 28, 2003 @ 2:02 AM do what we do in canada ... move the court house
jolt199	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 12:13 AM I'm all up for everyone having their own beliefs and all this, but we have to remember that the people who put together the constitution were very religious. It would have been fairly unnatural for them not to find ways to justify their means for governing a country without mention of why they thought these particular rights or laws were fit to rule the people as a whole. What matters is the country that they established has flourished in only two hundred years. So they added in some religious aspects. That was their moral code, and it's given us the freedoms we hold dear today. We could safely remove all references to the bible from the consitution now because of what the country has become, but would it be fair to allow ourselves to forget how we got here?
sinai	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 2:49 AM however, the ten commandments are a direct reference to christianity, and in a nation as diverse as this any direct reference to a certain denomination in our government buildings and such is wrong, and to go and put it in a courthouse?!? thats like slapping any islamic defendant in the face whenever he walks into that building and saying "your fucked now, cause we are on some whole other shit" nationalism itself is built on faith, it has its place, but favoritism will never ever work" id="60651">i got no problem with anything addressing God in our government, the word itself is a blanket term completly non denominational, "in god we trust" could apply to anyones ideas of god however, the ten commandments are a direct reference to christianity, and in a nation as diverse as this any direct reference to a certain denomination in our government buildings and such is wrong, and to go and put it in a courthouse?!? thats like slapping any islamic defendant in the face whenever he walks into that building and saying "your fucked now, cause we are on some whole other shit" nationalism itself is built on faith, it has its place, but favoritism will never ever work
billhudson	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 9:34 AM When are theses right wing nuts going to get it. If anyone cares to read some history, you can see why our fore fathers started to push away from a religion state. Read what John Adams had to say. And some others from the time. Still Pickin' Bill H.
jolt199	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 9:52 AM While they were pushing away from a religious state, they stil had to justify to the people why this particular government was a good idea, and the best way to do that was to appeal to the masses on what they focused most of their moral, social, and societal strengths: religion. Obviously, I don't know this to be true, but I can't think of any other way the masses would have obliged this new system without some justification as to why it was right. I think it's sad that there are so many bigger problems around the world, and we're focused on words printed outside a friggin' courthouse. Why not spend our time on something useful instead of bitching for the sake of bitching?
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 12:23 PM Typical argument of distraction. The courthouse was built to represent law, not religous beliefs. Why not build this monument outside a house of worship, where the parishoners can fund it? The bitching results from people who are offended that their tax dollars are going toward erecting a $2M monument geared toward not law, but religion. As for the inclusion of a "supreme being" and other "divine" words in our founding documents, they were included on the insistence by the vocal minority in Congress who wouldn't've approved the documents had the words been excluded. Jefferson, for instance, did not write anything pro-religious in his paper, and was quite dismayed that the separation of church and state was going to be potentially jeopardized by the inclusions. He gave in, tho, much as he gave in to the South when the passages regarding the abolishment of slavery had to be scratched, for without the southern colonies, the whole cause would've gone down right at the start. Took us almost another 100 years to officially eliminate that." id="60693">"I think it's sad that there are so many bigger problems around the world, and we're focused on words printed outside a friggin' courthouse. Why not spend our time on something useful instead of bitching for the sake of bitching?" Typical argument of distraction. The courthouse was built to represent law, not religous beliefs. Why not build this monument outside a house of worship, where the parishoners can fund it? The bitching results from people who are offended that their tax dollars are going toward erecting a $2M monument geared toward not law, but religion. As for the inclusion of a "supreme being" and other "divine" words in our founding documents, they were included on the insistence by the vocal minority in Congress who wouldn't've approved the documents had the words been excluded. Jefferson, for instance, did not write anything pro-religious in his paper, and was quite dismayed that the separation of church and state was going to be potentially jeopardized by the inclusions. He gave in, tho, much as he gave in to the South when the passages regarding the abolishment of slavery had to be scratched, for without the southern colonies, the whole cause would've gone down right at the start. Took us almost another 100 years to officially eliminate that.
jolt199	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 3:50 PM 1)If you're thinking that you could better finance where our taxes go, be my guest to run for office, but everyone thinks they know that. So far there is no one that can truly be pleased with out government. We're fortunate that we have any kind of voice in the matters of our governing. So a monument of the ten commandments is being erected outside a courthouse? Is this really worth our concern? If so, why? I just don't understand the need to bitch. If people want to put a statue or monument of something up, let them. It pleases them. Does it really hurt you in one way or another? I promise that it's not going to spring to life and bite you. It just won't. This whole thread ridiculous because any bitching posted here isn't going to change what's being built. I just really don't understand why we're so concerned about a monument. It's inanimate, and some people may find it pretty or something. If you don't like it, don't look at it, but there are some people who apparently want it there. As for Thomas Jefferson, he was indeed a great person, and without him our union wouldn't be what it is today. It's his willingness to compromise some of his beliefs to bring us all together. You're telling me that you're not willing to allow a few people to enjoy admiring a piece of art because it has some religious affiliation? If you were in Jefferson's shoes, I'd be afraid to see what this country would be like today. It's a monument that is easy to overlook. Is it so hard to allow some people to enjoy it? 2) It's a monument of the Ten Commandments, which is a list that governs a majority of peoples moral code. It is religious, nonetheless, but many of them are something we all follow no matter what denomination we are or beliefs we have. Just because it's specific to one branch of religions doesn't mean that can't be a moral guide for us all. I'm all for free speech, but I see this as a waste of time to argue about. Overall, I just don't see what is so wrong with allowing some people to just be happy by it being there. There is no reason for any fight to be started over this. One more time: It's a monument. Find something worthwhile to try to change or improve.
ChillinBuzz	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 3:56 PM Find something worthwhile to try to change or improve. i would, if someone would waste $2m on me
billhudson	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 4:40 PM I agree with you in a way jolt. I wish the right would not push it down our throats. I wish they would have something else to do, but they don't. What they want is a right wing Religionist state. Why would they put all their millions in it. The way it works so far in this country, if you want to speak up you can (so far). And I thank any god that the Southern Poverty Center is keeping an eye on theses guys. Still Pickin' Bill H.
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 4:54 PM "If you were in Jefferson's shoes, I'd be afraid to see what this country would be like today." ...No need to insult me nor my compromising abilities. I am me, Jefferson was Jefferson. Why make the comparison? Jefferson didn't help run and maintain DMusic. How many compromises do you think I've made here that he would never have? And besides, he was lousy with computers. Slavery bothered him, too. Would any of us have allowed that to pass?" id="60733">For someone who sees this as such a waste of time, you sure have found some time to waste. So, how 'bout we erect a monument of a big giant stone vagina in front of a courthouse? After all, there are some people who want it there. It pleases them. If we don't like it, we can look away. Or how 'bout a huge marble pentagram? It won't bite you. It's easy to overlook. Or maybe a huge statue of Adolf Hitler? Is is so hard to allow some people to enjoy it? The point is, it's a courthouse. Everything has its place. Law belongs at the courthouse. The Ten Commandments are not law. Moral code is not law. Yes, some moral codes become forms of law, such as "Thou shalt not kill," but it's not law. It's religious, no matter what angle is thrown on the table. "If you were in Jefferson's shoes, I'd be afraid to see what this country would be like today." ...No need to insult me nor my compromising abilities. I am me, Jefferson was Jefferson. Why make the comparison? Jefferson didn't help run and maintain DMusic. How many compromises do you think I've made here that he would never have? And besides, he was lousy with computers. Slavery bothered him, too. Would any of us have allowed that to pass?
SinisterX	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 6:08 PM I see nothing wrong with it being there but thats just me. its a statue, right? thats like saying, the Liberty offends me so take it down. If we keep this up, and remove everything that America was founded on then we might as well become a country like Iraq and get it over with.
SinisterX	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 6:15 PM lately.whats next? removing 'in god we trust' off our money? (mho) :shakeshead: " id="60742">why does everyone in this country have to be right or left billhudson??? huh? pleaseexplain it to me? this country was founded on 'religion' im not a bible thumper but neither am I on the right or the left, so, what does that make me?? if people would stop being so friggin 'politically correct' in this country then just maybe, or society would move forward instead of backwords. what do you think? are you really that narrowed minded??? closed minds are what troubles me in today's society. the statue cant not hurt you can it? if it offends certain people like the non-believers then, dont look at it. like changing a tv show that offends you, do you keep watching or, do you change the channel??? I cant belive how people have so much time on their hands to waste on these issues lately.whats next? removing 'in god we trust' off our money? (mho)
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 6:30 PM put it on the money, and not too long ago, I might add. Same with "Under God" in the Pledge to our flag. An issue to remove them wouldn't be so far-fetched, imho. ;)" id="60747">Everyone's entitled to their opinion. ...Let's keep in mind, tho, that "In God We Trust" was once an issue to put it on the money, and not too long ago, I might add. Same with "Under God" in the Pledge to our flag. An issue to remove them wouldn't be so far-fetched, imho.
Lcrowley	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 6:48 PM My dad said something to me when I was growing up that I have to tell myself sometimes too .. "you should sweep your own doorstep before you start sweeping someone elses" I have no problem with the Ten Commandments being in that courthouse either .. as a matter of fact I think they belong their .. When the PRESIDENT of the US is sworn in he uses GDS name .. We pray before a baseball game .. and before a nascar race.... those who don't believe in this practice just do not participate .. so, I say if you don't like the Ten Commandments sitting there .. don't look at it ! " id="60756">What happened to faith ? What happened to belief? what happened to Respect?? I am astonished as I sit and read some fo the things typed here... our laws and government were founded on christian principles.. the laws we are talking about were made from the ten commandments ... and the bible .. I am no "bible thumper" as someone put it earlier .. why is that an issue ?? I am not either but why did this person feel the need to clarify that ?? because others would look down upon him if he were?? why is that ? My dad said something to me when I was growing up that I have to tell myself sometimes too .. "you should sweep your own doorstep before you start sweeping someone elses" I have no problem with the Ten Commandments being in that courthouse either .. as a matter of fact I think they belong their .. When the PRESIDENT of the US is sworn in he uses GDS name .. We pray before a baseball game .. and before a nascar race.... those who don't believe in this practice just do not participate .. so, I say if you don't like the Ten Commandments sitting there .. don't look at it !
jolt199	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 6:53 PM Milla, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to come across as I was attacking you. I was just trying to point out that you seemed so uncompromising over what seems to be such a stupid issue to be debating all along. That's my whole point in all of this. There's no reason for disagreement. It's all unneeded. We're all entitled to our opinion. I just think we might find our time better spent discussing something of greater magnitude. Either way, I'm sorry if I did offend anyone. I certainly didn't intend to. Also, I have to agree with you about Thomas Jefferson. If the rumors were true, he was awful with computers.
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 7:10 PM Thanx, Jolt. Sadly, religion is one of those things that gets people fired up. I tend to believe my freedom from religion is just as important as everyone else's freedom _of_ it. This is one of the reasons it sorta bothers me that my lawmakers wanna stick in my face when I go in to pay my taxes and pledge allegiance to my country. No offense taken nor intended. I think churches and other houses of worship are quite nice (well, most of them, heh). Yes, it bothers me that they don't hafta pay any property taxes, while their neighbors need to take up the slack, but aesthetically, they can be some really beautiful places. LC, I don't wanna cause a dispute with you (nor anyone), but I've always been bothered that religion and politics have been thrown into sporting events, musical events, and other forms of entertainment. I don't go to a baseball game to either pray nor pledge alleigiance to my country. I go to see a baseball game or watch a concert. I have my religion and my politics, but I believe they should be kept in their places. And btw, the Commandments are not Amendments. They are two separate and distinct entities. This country may have been founded on Christian principles, but it was also founded on Judaic principles, Hindu principles, Greek principles, and many other religious principles. The fact remains that church and state should remain separate, something many people with a belief in one god seem to often forget. Again, just my opinion.
billhudson	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 7:23 PM Well I am proud to say I am a liberal. In theses parts and WV people still remember Mother Jones and what she did for labor. Years ago when I was against the war people would say," go back to Russia". Well I am from the USA. My point is people do for what ever reason put you in a block. Anyway speaking as a X-monk (5 years),religion should not be apart of this USA. And some points Mill! Still Pickin' Bill H. " id="60763">Sinster, I did not mean at all you have to be left or right or what ever. Its just people put us in a block and say,"oh another bleading heart". Well I am proud to say I am a liberal. In theses parts and WV people still remember Mother Jones and what she did for labor. Years ago when I was against the war people would say," go back to Russia". Well I am from the USA. My point is people do for what ever reason put you in a block. Anyway speaking as a X-monk (5 years),religion should not be apart of this USA. And some points Mill! Still Pickin' Bill H.
Lcrowley	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 7:39 PM Milla, please don't worry .. we are all different we all have different views and belief .. I believe that two people who have the same basic understandings and beliefs will have a different view when it comes to this kind of stuff .. My problem with this is the way we deal with each other on these issues .. some people seems to take things like this as a personal attack on them .. and they shouldn't .. because when someone gets heated about these things they are not necesssarily getting mad at you or them.. as much as they are about the issue ... I love to debate stuff like this .. and I know how to do so respectfully .. It is a very tough issue to discuss and one that alot of people are very divided on ...
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 8:01 PM Agreed.
jolt199	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 9:25 PM Me too.
starseven	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 9:34 PM things.shou dl we go back to owning slaves and not letting women vote?... no?.. why not, our conrty was founded on these things.. there for they must be right.. cuz to change thigns for the better would just be silly huh?... anything to do a with a group of child molesting, muridng Nazi theifs, has no place in front of our government.. keep your religion in your home where it belongs.. i dont need to hear about that bullshit and either does anyone else... you wanna be achristian.. hey, fine with me.. just dont throw it in my face" id="60795">it;s no a good idea to use the whole "our conrty was founded" line to back up this bullshit... our cantry was founded on a lot of things.shou dl we go back to owning slaves and not letting women vote?... no?.. why not, our conrty was founded on these things.. there for they must be right.. cuz to change thigns for the better would just be silly huh?... anything to do a with a group of child molesting, muridng Nazi theifs, has no place in front of our government.. keep your religion in your home where it belongs.. i dont need to hear about that bullshit and either does anyone else... you wanna be achristian.. hey, fine with me.. just dont throw it in my face
Lcrowley	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:04 PM So, it is ok for you to give you non christian view to someone who is religious, but it is not ok for someone who is religious to give you their views?? because that would be throwing it in your face?? hmmmm
Lcrowley	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:05 PM glad to know where we all stand on that !
milladrive	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:06 PM _Nothing_ in front of the courthouse is throwing nothing in anyone's face.
starseven	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:32 PM my view are more ANTI-CHRISTIAN than non-christian... but that;s a whole different topic not workth getting into... i am simply saying.. people should not force there aith on other people... and by having the 10 christian comandments in frotn if a court of law.. you are putting you belifs right in someoes face.. my ati christian belifs have nothign to do with it.. other than it woudl take a christian to have the balls to do somethign like that... i doubt any other religion would have such little repect for people rights to have belifs that differ from their own
starseven	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:32 PM sorry.. i realize that didnt make much sense the way i worded that.. hopefully you can infer the point i was trygin to make =)
Lcrowley	Date: September 1, 2003 @ 10:45 PM yes !! I understand now ! sorry ...lol
dgtzr	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 1:39 AM I have had the fortune to grow up living on every continent but Antartica and Australia, and it's difficult for me to sympathize with a certain point of view. I appreciate the great dialogue. I ask the question because I believe that the monument is reminiscent of a mentality the was pervasive many years ago, but I'm not convinced that it's representative of the people. This country was founded upon Christianity, but it has grown with the beliefs of many. Our country is dynamic and must remain so if it is to be successful in the future. Government, after all, is for the people and by the people. Regardless, the people will say it's an insult, and the minority will gripe that it isn't. Otherwise, they won't, and then the minority will gripe that it is. It's a wonderful debacle, but that's why I'm proud to be a citizen of the USA. Personally, I believe it the monument should stay, but the Quran, Torah, Vedas, Analects, Necronomicon other religious documents and a shrubbery should be placed in the immediate vicinity. Each placed slightly lower or above so that they form a pretty row.
SinisterX	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:27 AM In God We Trust" WILL be next on the list. They have been trying to get it removed off our money for years. all it takes these days is for ONE person to start bitching about something and a judge will come along and agree with it. All I can say is, this isn't the country I grewup in. And the right/left liberal/conservative bullshit didn't exist when I was younger. billhudson, I know what you meant, I was just trying to use it as an example, this country was founded on 'religion' why do you think America broke free from England?? :shrug: " id="60865">I said "Im not a bible thumper" meaning, I am a believer but I dont go around preaching it. That's all I mant by it. My hats off to the Chief Justice for putting his ass on the line for hiss beliefs. All I was getting at was, this country is falling apart, piece by pice and being controlled by a few narrow-minded peole like the judges who told him to remove the stone. So, the majority does NOT rule anymore eh? Who is making up these laws? How come a statute of vinus is not offensive and seems to be ok??? Isnt that a Greek "GOD"??? Why is somethings ok and others are not? In God We Trust" WILL be next on the list. They have been trying to get it removed off our money for years. all it takes these days is for ONE person to start bitching about something and a judge will come along and agree with it. All I can say is, this isn't the country I grewup in. And the right/left liberal/conservative bullshit didn't exist when I was younger. billhudson, I know what you meant, I was just trying to use it as an example, this country was founded on 'religion' why do you think America broke free from England??
SinisterX	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:40 AM typo hell there 'venus' hehe. too early in the mornin to be typin. dmusicneedstohaveaneditingfeature
SinisterX	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:47 AM (mho) " id="60867">billhudson: im a believer so, in your own words does that make me on the right?? you hate the "right" so much I dont understand why??? Like I said I am neither right or left but I am a Catholic and gay. Im just tryin to see where would I fit in in your world. You see everything in black and white like everybody else. Narrowmindesness will get you nowhere in life. You sound like the media news caster instead of an artist. (no offense) (mho)
starseven	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 1:56 PM me.mad props to people who stad up for what they belive in. But closed minded it seems are those who cling to christianity, and tell every non beliver they are going to hell.. i think the judge who wanted it removed is thinking with a very open mind. he is open minded enough to realize that there is more that just a chirstian point of view in this contry.. and all should feel welcome walking into into a court of law" id="60890">i dont see ayhtg wrong with "in god we trust" but if it ever turned to "in jesus we trust" i would be that one guy bitching... and hopefully it would be more than just me.mad props to people who stad up for what they belive in. But closed minded it seems are those who cling to christianity, and tell every non beliver they are going to hell.. i think the judge who wanted it removed is thinking with a very open mind. he is open minded enough to realize that there is more that just a chirstian point of view in this contry.. and all should feel welcome walking into into a court of law
victorsskull	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 2:05 PM and GOD said let there be rock and there was
billhudson	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 2:20 PM Sinister, please in no way do I see things as black in white. Life does not work that way. As as as hate the right, well, I have alot of friend who are that way. Its not them I hate, it where they stand. That is all. Mother earth will one day just clean out the human race if we don't watch it. We all need to stop and slow down and just look around what we are doing to the oceans, the air and peoples health. This is not some pie in the sky thinking but real people trying to make this earth a better place. As far as being a catholic, well I could write a book about my 5 years behind those walls. And just to give you an idea, back in the 60's we had give or take 45 to 65 people there. And you could leave when ever you wanted. Now they have very few numbers and there is a reason for all that. One can be blind for only so long. By the way I still go there to visit my brothers and I have a cell (room) when ever I want. In a way it is my family. Oh by the way no offense taken, I stand behind my music and let others say what they want about it. I live, live by my heart and will always do that. Put a finger to wind and let the spirit take me where they will. And so far it has been a rich path. Still Pickin' Bill H. PS thanks Victor, rock on!
CowgirlBebop	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 2:20 PM amen to that!
lindzkitten	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:21 PM is it odd that im ironically amused by this whole thread? maybe it has to do with the fact that i'm doing laundry, and gathering my quarters (a sad existence it is, when you must deposit $1 to wash, $1 to dry... !@#$% dorms)- and low and behold, on my quarter it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" right there... and guess what? it also says LIBERTY right there at the top. that means two things to me- first, i dont really see a lot of antichristians/nonchristians/undecided.. or what have you, throwing quarters away because they found it offensive. so my guess is most people are rather indifferent to it because its a phrase found often in our country's history.. think of the pledge of allegiance. "..and Under God..", etc. But the LIBERTY at the top signifies to me everyone's right to their freedom of religion, or from religion, of their own choosing. I would not personally be offended at a buddhist statue sitting in front of a courthouse, either. but maybe thats just me.. i dont know..
milladrive	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:51 PM Indifference is correct, imho. It reminds me much of the anti-smoking laws, for some reason. Non-smokers are quite vocal. Smokers merely wanna be left alone to smoke. They seem to have better things to do than to "fight for their right to party." I think non-religious people are less vocal and more passive than the religious, overall, so the religious tend to eventually get their way. But that's jmo." id="60916">Well, at the risk of continuing this... "..Under God.." wasn't in the pledge until 1954, and "In God we trust" wasn't on all money until 1938. Indifference is correct, imho. It reminds me much of the anti-smoking laws, for some reason. Non-smokers are quite vocal. Smokers merely wanna be left alone to smoke. They seem to have better things to do than to "fight for their right to party." I think non-religious people are less vocal and more passive than the religious, overall, so the religious tend to eventually get their way. But that's jmo.
starseven	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 6:56 PM i thought the in god we trust thing went back futher?... i could be wrong.. i do remember the peace dollars in the ealry 20's saying "in god we Trvst" i always found that funny
milladrive	Date: September 2, 2003 @ 7:26 PM Yes. In fact, the penny's had it since 1909. I'm just sayin' it wasn't "official" for all money till 1938. Much the same way many states had given up slavery long before 1865. heh

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