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What is a Democrat or a Republican anyway?

TameasDust	Date: December 24, 2009 @ 3:55 PM What is a Democrat or a Republican anyway? Being Canadian and having 3 or more similar parties I find Republican/Democrat political standing confusing.
Distilled1	Date: December 24, 2009 @ 4:04 PM Democrat = an ass that is a crook Republican = an ass that is a crook Don't let the donkey or elephant make you think different they are both snakes!
DannyHowe2	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 2:09 AM The difference is in philosophy , the Republicans believe on average that what is good for big business is good for the people and the Democrats believe what is good for the people is what is good for the people. social programs ect... Both have good and bad points the opposition between them keeps things at a reasonable balance ,
sunshine	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 7:07 AM History 101 For those that don't know about history ... Here is a condensed version: Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter. The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups: 1. Liberals, and 2. Conservatives. Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed. Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement. Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement. Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided. Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass. Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat. Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Bud. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living. Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. Here ends today's lesson in world history: It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above. A Conservative will simply laugh i;m ctually non affiliated with either party, but that is the basics.... that the republicans believe
GTOriginal	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 8:48 AM The republican party basically started out as a clique of rich drunken assholes in the taverns of Philadelphia that somehow think being born with a polo stick in your hand entitles a person to feel superior to those who actually have to work for a living, and indeed believe they can buy their way into leadership of a political system that is known as a democracy for a reason. Their symbol is the elephant because most of them are fat and slow, having gotten that way by leeching off the blood of hard working people in the trenches of our great country. This is why they love WAR so damn much. Any time a person can profit from the death of their betters, expect to see a smarmy asshole republican behind the scenes. Hitler, Mussolini, George W. Bush. All perfect examples of totaltarian politics at work. Substandard intelligence and a basic lack of honor/courage didn't stop W from running the show (into the ground) for eight years, did it? The Democratic symbol is indeed a jackass. The Republicans had no ammunition in their campaign against Andrew Jackson, so they resorted to name calling. This is the kindergarten level at which Republicans operate throughout history. Remember how McCain behaved once it became clear that this country had enough republican bullshit for eight years? I thought he was gonna jump up and down, singsonging the N word on every jump. Democrats have brought us things like the Family Leave Act (not the one where families get split so the men can go to WAR), JOBS, all kinds of social reform (which is forever being attacked by the uninformed as "socialism" - more of the previously mentioned kindergarten behavior, what a suprise). Health care reform is in the works - opposed only by the comfortable & supported by those who work hard for little money to keep the fat in their golf carts. Personally - I'm liberal because the basics of living in America have made me that way. I would be voting Republican if the party provided JOBS and opposed WAR - but since they shit all over our economy in the name of WAR and damn near brought the nation to an end, I'll stay where I'm at thank you very much. PS - If any feminists take offense to my preceding statement about men marching off to WAR (ladies are perfectly good killers too, after all). Consider this - The selective service act only requires that men register for the draft. Hope this clears things up for ya, Tameasdust!
zedsalt	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 10:08 AM On 24th Dec 2012, Distilled1 said: Democrat = an ass that is a crook Republican = an ass that is a crook Don't let the donkey or elephant make you think different they are both snakes! I find it pretty easy to understand the good folks who don't believe that there are essential differences in the two major U.S. political parties. I mean, I disagree...disagree strongly...but while the basic character of each party has remained basically unchanged, individual traits of those overall characters have fluctuated back and forth so often, so completely, that it's easy to see how a person could lose track. "Demo" is a Greek prefix for "the People". The "the" and the capital "P" are important, because the term doesn't refer to just any plurality of persons or just any means of grouping them. "Demos" denotes the humanity within a set geographical region and excludes the leadership, the wealthy, and others who could be said to comprise an elite group within the region. "Cracy" is also from the Greek and means "rule", "government". "Re" is Latin for "thing", and "public" is Latin for "the People". The core differences between the Greek definition and the Latin (Roman) definition of "the People" are reflected in the ancient Greek and Roman systems of government. Public issues were settled in ancient Greece largely by direct, "one person one vote" means. They stood in lines, waiting to put a shard of pottery into a large pot while anyone and everyone who was concerned about the issue deeply enough stood by to prevent anyone from putting more than one shard in. Politikos, "civic citizens", stood in and along these lines, speaking loudly and trying to influence the opinions of the voters. The result was that governance and law was often a matter of which side of the issue had the most eloquent speakers, those with the greatest ability to influence the opinion of the common voter, even if the speaker was a relatively inexperienced community organizer from Chikagossus. O.k., I'll admit it- I made up that name. To the best of my knowledge, there was never a city in ancient Greece name "Chikagossus". The ancient Romans believed in Plutocracy, rule by the wealthiest (Plutus was the Greek god of wealth who was converted into the Roman pantheon of gods, as were most of the Greek religious figures). The Romans felt that the failing of the Greek system was that it put equal decision-making power into the hands of wealthy and poor alike. This was much the same "problem" that many Americans saw with their government in the mid-1800s. A man who had the ambition, strength of conviction, and desire for power required to build great personal wealth had no more say in his governance than did the subsistence farmer. Rule by the rabble was sure, they believed, to ruin the nation in which they had made their homes and fortunes. The Democrats, the party of "rule by the People", formed about 25 years earlier, needed to supplanted by a "party of property" to ensure that the People continued to serve the interests of the wealthy...or if not supplanted, at least provided with some competition.
zedsalt	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 10:25 AM And I'm going to respectfully disagree with sunshine's assertion that one party is Liberal and the other Conservative. I put a great deal of time and effort into getting what turned out to be a "Blue Dog Democrat" into the U.S. House of Representatives. Everyone who voted for him thought they were casting a vote for someone who genuinely wanted to improve the lives of everyday Americans, but we ended up putting a Conservative into office instead. The difference between Liberals and Conservatives, I think, is best described by looking at the ultimate extension of each school of thought. Jesus Christ was the ultimate Liberal. He said the wealthy should help the poor. The strong should help the weak. The healthy should care for the sick. The very young and very old should be cared for by the rest of us. Your personal morality (in spite of how His words have been twisted since) is between you and God. The ultimate Conservative would be the leader of a cannibal tribe. Very few people...if not strictly one person...should rule every aspect of everyone else's life, and everyone else should either serve as slave or be served as food for the ruling class.
evansorchid	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 4:31 PM On 26th Dec 2012, sunshine said: It should be noted that a Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above. Yep......what a fucking load of crap that was, Sunshine.
GTOriginal	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 11:08 PM George Washington was a cannibal. During the tough winter at valley forge, the Continental Army was forced to eat their dead comrades for survival. They also ate the meat of freshly executed Loyalists, and British prisoners. After the war President Washington, having acquired the taste for human flesh, ordered a fresh slave to be butchered and cured for his Thursday suppers. Paul Revere made his dentures from the teeth of these cadavers, who were often traded in life on the basis of their dental health. The reason the President needed dentures in the first place was twofold. First, his diet of human flesh left him completely devoid of Vitamin C, and he suffered from early-onset scurvy, common among sailors of the time. Secondly, he suffered from late-stage syphillis, acquired from years of forceable rape against the young girls in his slave pool. It is widely known that George Washington also grew vast quanitities of cannibis sativa on his Virginia compound, which he sold to shipbuilders for their personal use. Father of our country, rapist, drug dealer, and cannibal. The first Replublican.
ShadowMom	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 11:33 PM I would love to respond to all this, but I'm so full of holiday cheer right now, I'm afraid it would make no sense. To ME, yeah! To YOU-- uhhhhh.... Who says there's a difference? Check their bank accounts. I'm a Democrat who is well on her way to becoming an independent, although anarchy has some good points, too!
Opossum	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 11:45 PM You know, I have a losh of experience wiz bosh Remocans and Depublicrats, but I haf to say I'm usually somewhere in the middle.
ShadowMom	Date: December 26, 2009 @ 11:53 PM ExACKly!! Little to the left, I have hippie blood. And if the site weren't so slow right now, I'd ... say SOMETHING! I would so!
sunshine	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 8:28 AM act shual y - i pretty much think niehter party serve the peoples best interest, or interests at all for that matter. gto had some good points, zedsalt,,,the ultimate conservative tribe is cannibalistic? ok, i went pretty far too. republicans - war, money, iol, war, money iol democrtats - socialism in disquise, socailism in disguise (in this day and age) in times of old, i would have called myself a democrat and gone about my merry way, yup, in olden days now my thinking is there needs to be a party with NO affilitions with no lobbyists, who actually run our fair country, big buisiness, who actually look out for the best interest of the people.big brother is looking over your shoulder my dears, and all of our rights have been striped away form us in a bevvy of taxes and freedom is a thing of the past. all the while we are fed on a media blitz of create your own relaity, think it and it is dummy down and pay taxes on every thing you own, use, produce and even in your death, you get to pay a death tax, and we actually think it is a ok as we as the people swollow it like candy all the while thinking it makes a dam bit of difference to vote democrat or republican, when it doesn't, sorry guys they all have an agenda, none of these agendas are what is best, for the people. 911 was an inside job, healthcare reform is a semi joke, why reinvent the wheel, when canada has a working system in place, i will tell you why, blue cross and the rest of them wont make thier money and since the OWN congress, it isnt in our governemts best interest to serve the people in a way that makes sense. since they have been bought and sold by corporations. i see the good and the bad in both of the parties and walk away with a bad taste in my mouth because of our lack of caring beyond our own little lives as these things have come to pass and not even caring anymore about what THE PEOPLE actually need or want. that my dears is to me taxation without representation, or true representation at the very least. so tameas dust, you perhaps have a better picture of democrat and republican, but my vote would be for joe the plumber or some average person with maybe two brian cells that contain common sense who can actually represent the PEOPLE. someone whose pockets aren't lined with money from blue cross, nra, or any other shankster that actually makes our elected officails thier paid whores with a vote, all the while pretending to represnt the people. i hate them equally. a decent debate is hard to find, and since most have both sides with valid points as well as equal suckness, i am throwing a wrench in the wheel and saying that niehter one of them really represtent the interest of us, the ones who pay for it all. in this great country, the ones who really don't have a say whatsoever. peace.
sunshine	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 8:30 AM and yes i can spell oil properly.
sunshine	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 8:51 AM of course our government considers anyone who doesnt agree with their agenda a radical and someone to watch, because it is not allowed. the current democrats, powers that be, are especially on the lookout for radicals returning from service in the military. who have served this great country with thier lives on the line. we have treated our veterans like dirty diapers that need disposed of from way back, and now after however many tours they may have had, choking on dust for a snack, serving with thier lives, and now we really need to watch them for radical actions. yeah, thats nice. wonder why.
forwardslash	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 9:13 AM disclaimer - some of the views and opinions expressed by my beautiful wife sunshine do not necessarily represent the views of this entire household, viewer discretion advised. our home is bipartisan and policitics are not discussed due to undisclosed reasons.
zedsalt	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 10:19 AM Sunshine's post of 8:51 AM is a good example of one of the great changes in the basic nature of the U.S. which occurred last January 20th. We went from being a country whose government imprisoned (sometimes in jails, more often in "mental health" facilities) its citizens for disagreeing with its executive branch (Rove and Cheney) to a country where you can LITERALLY carry a sign calling for the President's death in one hand and a semi-automatic assault rifle in the other, and they'll let you stand three feet away from the President with nothing between you and him but a teleprompter...overcompensation, in my humble opinion, but a step too far in the right direction. There's PLENTY wrong with the current crop of Democrats...including our warhawk, better-to-be-popular-than-be-right (even when it means assuaging an obviously misinformed majority) President, but the basic nature of the two parties...one for making the best life for the average citizen, one for making the average citizen subservient to the wealthy...remains unchanged. And to me, the most baffling thing about the subservience I mentioned is that it's NOT the wealthy, for the most part, who are in favor of that model of government. The overwhelming majority of them are bright enough to understand that a healthy middle class is good for them...no great Marxist "eternal struggle" to interfere with their idyllic lives. It's the people who believe the People really need to be controlled and cared for like chattel who comprise the group we've come to refer to as "Conservatives".
farfor44	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 3:36 PM
justinother1	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 8:34 PM aaahhh...politics. my personal political views are probably a tad more convoluted than most of the populace would be willing to tolerate. the system we enjoy(?),is clearly flawed. only time and history,will bear witness to the eventual benefits of democratic rule,as opposed to the monarchy,our forefathers fought so valiantly to escape. true change will only come about as the result of the radical actions of forward-thinking individuals. the principal problem with that concept,is,that,once again,only time and history will prove the merits of any change. there are plenty of people out there,with ideas of how to fix what ails our society. to blindly follow,without questioning the motives of anyone who claims to have the answers,is certainly not the answer. one must undertake a long,arduous process of informed thinking,in order to discard that which,simply cannot work,and to embrace the concepts that keep free-thinking individuals living in a state of what,idealistically,is referred to as "liberty" free your mind...etc. on a side note... has anyone noticed the "political figure" in the picture,on my user page webcam? or,the journal entry,that accompanies it? infer what you will.
vilifiend	Date: December 27, 2009 @ 8:44 PM oh for fucks sake will you all just shut the fuck up and write a song already
KINGTAM	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 12:59 AM one guy holding two puppets
zedsalt	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 9:21 AM On 27th Dec 2012, vilifiend said: oh for fucks sake will you all just shut the fuck up and write a song already Funny you should mention that, as I'm in a particularly long slump right now, haven't so much as picked up an instrument in several days. I try to not "bully the muse", though, y'know- just relax and let it come back when it wishes. I've been taking advantage of the time to package together some of the music I made this year. I have it whittled down to three disks of a little over fifty minutes each...just the solo stuff which wasn't done for any particular purpose...no collabs, no covers, nothing from any of '09's special projects...a little less than most years, but not a lot less...did a LOT of major renovation on the house this year; hopefully, I'll be a little more prolific in '10...
zedsalt	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 9:22 AM GAH! Another abbreviated post! It was just a response to vili's post; most of it's still there...
farfor44	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 3:17 PM Lighten up Vili ! Here's something that wont take long to read..SOME PEOPLE MULTITASK!
sunshine	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 5:47 PM why do i need to know how to set compression on drums? 4/1
ShadowMom	Date: December 28, 2009 @ 10:25 PM I wish I had time to get into this argument/discussion, but ... And Krissy, please... what did I miss?
vilifiend	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 12:48 AM lol sorey guys i had a really bad night i took my meds today but seriously, forget politics, write a song ok do what you wish but plz
GeneHilbert	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 2:35 AM The point of discussing politics on Dmusic is that most libs, (forget democrats which are for the most part extinct) are locked into their own rigid belief structure regardless of any expressed opposing opinion or evidence presented. Libs think the government owns them a free ride and Conservatives think you should earn it. Libs believe America is evil and the source of all the worldâ€™s ills. And although they preach tolerance will in a heartbeat chastise you for voicing an opposing view point. (Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ve noticed that) Capitalism is a blight and the root of all evil and to destroy it (America) is a worthy pursuit and necessary. Exceptions for the ruling educated Georgetown, Harvard, Princeton, Vale, Columbia Saul Alinsky, Lenin, Mao following sheep who make the rules and are free from having to be bothered observing them. That is just for the dumb-ass little people. You know the type..... You! Conservatives believe that this country is great and the best hope for freedom and democracy this planet has ever known. And that free market capitalism although not a perfect system bestows everybody with an equal opportunity to get an education, work hard; reap the results for your efforts and prosper accordingly. No guarantees of success but you have the opportunity to make yourself successful. Government is to grant equal opportunity, provide for a common defense from our enemies foreign and domestic and then stay the fuck away from us. I actually see a middle ground. As to if you are in dire need, assistance should be available. However it is not intended or available as a never ending social handout, life style, bribe, guarantee, mandated from of control or servitude. So, read all the hyperbole, the rants and raves, the distortions and lies but remember this. America has been the brightest and shall remain most successful form of government ever created. Where with work, determination, moral conviction and effort you can achieve anything you can conceive. Donâ€™t ever let the haters rob you of your faith and the belief that you; can do and be anything or do anything you want. The dream still lives on........ In You
evansorchid	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 6:59 AM On 29th Dec 2012, GeneHilbert said: The point of discussing politics on Dmusic... ....there is no point in discussing politics on Dmusic.
zedsalt	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:53 AM I'd like to amend what Spike said at 6:59...not argue against it...by pointing out that I've never seen any great need for a discussion here to have a point. And c'mon, now, our pal Gene just made several points. Majority=extinction. Basing one's beliefs on the ever-changing world of demonstrable fact=intransigence. The government is there not to serve people, but to be served by them. Blind obedience=patriotism. Presenting people with information=disrespecting their opinions. Being opposed to a school of thought which very nearly destroyed a nation=wanting to destroy that nation. Rules should not be made by smart people. Greed does not make people do bad things. Dire need is a lifestyle choice. Individual criteria for greatness can't change the fact that we are the best. You don't have to agree with those points in order to recognize them as points. Personally, I'm thrilled beyond words to hear from Gene again.
sunshine	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 10:09 AM actually i was impressed too, but have said more than enough here.
ShadowMom	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 10:23 AM Ditto, what zed said. It's always good to have a discussion, about anything and everything, as long as it doesn't degenerate to personal attacks. Krissy, I never let that stop me....
sunshine	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 10:31 AM in fact, to tell the truth..... i think i may be in love with gene hilbert. and his guitar skills are really just icing on the cake. dont tell forward slash. ssshshhh...
sunshine	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 10:52 AM "Government is to grant equal opportunity, provide for a common defense from our enemies foreign and domestic and then stay the fuck away from us. " that is what made me fall in love with him specifically. although the rest of twaht he said was great too. Zed - excellent summation, except I don't see where he made the reference, "Greed does not make people do bad things.." ...which would be the one point I would heartily disagree with..but oof course that wuold firmly fall under nit picking, as to me gene is now Thor, hammer and all.
farfor44	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 11:34 AM Yes I agree we should keep it Civil, and I also agree It's good to see Gene Hilbert back at dmusic. Gene's comments always evoke serious thought..I must respond to the statement"Libs think the government owes them a free ride and Conservatives think you should earn it" firstly economic words are used to describe political parties again. Personally I consider myself Conservative by economic standards. I pay my bills on time,I never charge things I can pay cash for,and if I use a credit card for anything, it's payed in full at the end of the month to avoid interest. To bad the previous administration of our government didn't follow my example of economic prudence,and they are supposedly Conservative! How is it possible to bail out the banks,investment firms,and Wall street using Tax payer money and not see that as SOCIALISM??? Politically I'm a Democrat! economically I'm a Conservative! but mainly I'm just a Plebeian..
GTOriginal	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 11:56 AM Democrats listen to Folk Guitar, Light FM/ easy listening. Grateful Dead, Moody Blues, etc. Republicans don't listen to music. They feel it, like all forms of artistic expression, is a terrible waste of valuable resources. They sometimes use music to mask the screams of prisoners while torturing them, but otherwise consider it a liberal folly. In fact, one of the first things the party plans to do when it re-seizes power is to declare War On Music.
evansorchid	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 12:09 PM Okay fine......I really don't enjoy discussing politics because as I have discovered.....it's really difficult to convince or convert others to a particular way of thinking.....and it just seems like a fruitless pursuit because I personally don't know everything there is to know about everything......and I could easily be wrong about something. But here are my general thoughts when I read some of these points by Gene.... *Most libs are locked into their own rigid belief structure regardless of any expressed opposing opinion or evidence presented.* That statement just seems 180 degrees off to me..... because I basically feel the same way about conservatives and religious right. I don't care if someone has an opposing opinion....but when the evidence presented debunks their opinion....it just seems that most conservatives still hold tight to their rigid beliefs regardless of the evidence. *Libs believe America is evil and the source of all the worldâ€™s ills.* That statement is just a bunch of baloney. Countries aren't evil. People are evil. Evil people can rise to power in a country.....even America. If the leaders of the country support policies that are wrong, then it's up to the people to decide through the election process what those policies should represent. It is typical of both sides of the political spectrum to demonize the opposing party. *Conservatives believe that this country is great and the best hope for freedom and democracy this planet has ever known.* Only when their party is in control of the reins government do they believe this. *...and that free market capitalism although not a perfect system....* Okay....so we agree that it's not a perfect system....then let's work on making it a 'more-perfect' system. What do we need to do move in the direction of a 'more-perfect' system? *Free market capitalism bestows everybody with an equal opportunity to get an education* Really....capitalism does that? I would have thought that was in the purview of state and local governments in general not necessarily the type of economic system that the government has encouraged. That statement just seems a bit twisted.....I mean everyone knows that equal opportunity to an education is a socialistic idea. *...work hard and reap the results for your efforts and prosper accordingly* Ah.....yes....the American Dream. I got nothing against hard work or reaping the rewards of any efforts, but many times the people may collectively get to the point where they believe they are 'spinning their wheels' and NOT receiving the prosperity which was professed by their leaders....then a change in leadership may occur. It's basically a question of what level of suffering are people able to endure. It seems to me that conservatives in general believe that suffering is good because it will motivate a person to dig themselves out of their situation, where as liberals try to figure out ways to reduce the amount of suffering in the first place. *I actually see a middle ground. If you are in dire need, assistance should be available.* But....but....but....this seems to go against the entire conservative philosophy and sounds more like a concession. *America has been the brightest and shall remain most successful form of government ever created.* You make it sound like it's been this way since its inception......that we've reached a plateau and we're at some stopping point. It took a few years and some minor adjustments to get to this point and we still have some work to do. ....anyway, that's my attempt at having a opinion.
sunshine	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 2:31 PM thank you for proving my point that BOTH parties are locked in rigid belief structures regardless of common sense or whatever he wrote. both parties are intolerant. Be it democrats vs republicans conservatives vs. liberals gays vs christian christian vs gays (except luthern) i always find it interesting when people who say they are accepting and open minded have just as deep prejudices. neither of which exemplify the teachings of Jesus Christ and the example of love and acceptance that has been mentioned. And yes indeed they are all bought with a price so i am sorry if you disagree farfar44, but it is a fact I can look up how much each rep cost for what vote on what issue. so while there WERE fundamental differences at one time...I conclude that they have quite a bit in common. More so than most of you think, unfortunately.
Israfel	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 3:13 PM Hmm, I don't know much about this except for this... I work for a not for profit social service organization and every day I work with people most of you would pass by in the street without even seeing. I'm talking about the poorest of the poor, the mentally ill, the addicted, the disabled, the "losers" of the world, who there but for the grace of god go any of us. We rely heavily on public funding, either state or federal, to get people the services they need just to have some semblance of a life. It's not a question of them "getting a job" it's sometimes a question of them being able to have the most basic normal fundtioning. Whenever we have a "Republican" administration, our budgets get cut, our hours get longer, and our clients have to go without (silly things like fair housing, medical attention, medications and the like). Whenever we have a "Democratic" administration, we get a lot of promises that funds will be forthcoming and then it all gets held up in Congress or the House somewhere and we get the same cuts. Nobody wants to pay higher taxes but they all think "someone" should do something to alleviate the eyesore presented by the homeless, the afflicted and the mentally ill walking our streets. So, democrat or republican, it's all pretty much the same to me. I find that politics and, for that matter, government, really does very little for the people I serve. And while they are all debating the issue, between vacations that is, life and it's problems go on.
moam	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 4:43 PM Yeah, its funny how everyone seems to be saying, "oh why doesn't someone do something about the starving people" or "why can't someone do something about the homeless?" but when it comes time to digging in their wallets to pay extra for taxes and what not...to provide money for HELPING the homeless and the starving...no one is willing. Can somebody say greedy? I'm already in total debt, have very little money for myself, but still manage to donate when I get the chance. But then we get these whiney-ass Americans bitching about tax increases, even when they all know that the money is going to a good cause. My point is...what's wrong with paying more taxes but getting a better country in return? Help get the homeless off the streets, help feed the starving, help improve public schools, help people live better lives..... That's my rant. Basically, if you expect results, be ready to chip in a little bit...just like if you're wanting to make it somewhere in the music industry. If you expect labels and record companies to listen to your shit, expect to give a little in return. Bottom line...the world is not free. Get over it.
justinother1	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 6:10 PM i hate quoting myself,but... the system we enjoy(?),is clearly flawed. true change will only come about as the result of the radical actions of forward-thinking individuals. there are plenty of people out there,with ideas of how to fix what ails our society. to blindly follow,without questioning the motives of anyone who claims to have the answers,is certainly not the answer. has anyone noticed the "political figure" in the picture,on my user page webcam? or,the journal entry,that accompanies it? infer what you will. i am simply amazed and disappointed,that no one has called me on this... it's called...irony
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:04 PM Politicans are all cock smoking turd burglars. Like Moam.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:04 PM Tip 1 - Spellcheck when using a broken keyboard.
vilifiend	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:07 PM On 29th Dec 2012, ChillinBuzz said: Politicans are all cock smoking turd burglars. Like Moam. i just got a mental image of a guy in a suit looting turds in a big santa sack with a cock in his mouth... nice! but yes they are indeed cock smoking turd burglars, like moam.
potatohead	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:09 PM poor moam
vilifiend	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:09 PM On 29th Dec 2012, potatohead said: poor moam never, ever, ever show moam sympathy. he deserves the worst. hes a gooey fuckstick.
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:10 PM
ChillinBuzz	Date: December 29, 2009 @ 9:10 PM Ah, the gooey fuckstick thing? He says it's just a urinary infection. Damn those chickens!
zedsalt	Date: December 30, 2009 @ 9:42 AM On 29th Dec 2012, sunshine said: in fact, to tell the truth..... i think i may be in love with gene hilbert. and his guitar skills are really just icing on the cake. dont tell forward slash. ssshshhh... ...plus, he's a helluva songwriter. It ain't like I'm queer for him or nothin'; I'm just sayin'.
zedsalt	Date: December 30, 2009 @ 9:48 AM On 29th Dec 2012, sunshine said: Zed - excellent summation, except I don't see where he made the reference, "Greed does not make people do bad things.." Yeah, leave it to me to say in eight words what could be said in three: deregulation is good. Here's a little exercise anyone can try: find every specific reason you can for the economic troubles we had at the start of this year, any specific reason anyone has ascribed. Now, please, take note- I said specific reason. "They was jess too many uvvum danged regulations" is NOT an example of a specific reason. "Financial institutions treated loans which they knew were unlikely to ever be repaid as though they were valuable commodities" is a specific reason. "Financial institutions were doing business in communities in which they had no actual stake otherwise, communities they couldn't even locate on a map" is a specific reason. Now, take your list and compare it to a copy of Glass-Steagal and try to find specific reasons which would NOT have been prevented by a provision of Glass-Steagal had it still been the law of the land. Try to find one, for that matter. Now, Conservative pundits* have said/will continue to say that, "Well, that may've been an exception to the 'less regulation is best' rule, but look at who was President at the time". And they're right- after having shut down all of the offices of the federal government which DIRECTLY aid the citizenry, after taking those in need hostage in the fight to render the Executive Branch impotent*, the Kidnap Congress rescinded Glass-Steagal during Bill Clinton's presidency. In spite of the constant clamor (in the mass media) that no one is allowed to point a camera nor microphone at, nor write down the words of, then publicize (through the mass media) a Conservative, I believe in the existence of that creature identified colloquially as "the Conservative pundit". ** My first run at that sentence, I used the phrase "bloodless coup", but people died. I have to assume at least a few of them bled perimortem.
zedsalt	Date: December 30, 2009 @ 9:52 AM That whole doing-business-in-your-own-community idea I mentioned is one that's becoming a bone of contention in the healthcare debate, too. I've heard a number of NeoCons* pushing the idea that one aspect of reform that has been all but ignored so far is the "improvement" of health insurance by opening it to interstate trade. I've yet to hear one of them pining for the same results that the same deregulation had on banking in America, but how could we expect otherwise? How does the business of holding your money for you until you need it differ from the business of...well...from the business of holding your money for you until you need it? I mean, what is the difference in essence which makes interstate health insurance trade a better idea than interstate banking? And when did market-based competition become an anti-Conservative (not merely Liberal, but anti-Conservative) notion? Making the health insurance program which is available to members of Congress available to the citizenry...how does that idea become instantly evil when it's followed by a name which is followed by a "(D)"? How many times would you have to label that variety of market-based competition "Socialism" before it became unpopular? Wait a sec'...I worded that last question wrong, didn't I? It should have been "how many times did it take?" Never mind. The exact figure really isn't important, and it would probably just depress me to hear exactly how low the number was. * I know folks get tired of my use of that term, but seriously...breaking every spending record in the books, creating many times more non-elected bureaucratic positions than any other administration has ever even considered, making the worst porkbarrel Governor in the nation the veep candidate, planting the federal government firmly in the middle of all of our most intimate moral decisions...at what point should I be allowed to stop calling them "Conservatives"?
farfor44	Date: December 30, 2009 @ 8:11 PM I think now would be the perfect time Zed! It's perfectly obvious that the Republicans are not Conservatives neither fiscal or moral.the great depression was under their watch,the meltdown of the economy last year was under their watch.How fiscally Conservative is that?? They've started Wars with Korea, Vietnam, Iraq,Afghanistan.Now they want to go to Iran and the latest Yemen.. How morally Conservative is that?? Conservatism doesn't fit their profile period.. Democrats are from my prospective much more Conservative,both fiscally and morally than the Republicans(ie) Pay as you go,and the balanced budget act are Democratic policies..Democrats are not war hawks although they've had to clean up after Republican Administrations many times.. I've tried to mention Democrats and Republicans in all my comments, trying to stay away from the words Liberal and Conservative as much as possible because they do not fit the so called parties they describe.. now to answer Tameas original question plainly and Simply.. What is a Democrat or a Republican anyway? #1.The Democrats currently hold a majority in all three branches of the US Government. The Republicans are in the minority in Congress and the Senate. #2.Democrats find solutions to problems. The Republicans believe like chemists, solutions are things that are all mixed up. #3.Democrats believe in Sensible regulations of big business to protect consumers and shareholders. Republicans are de regulators and Privatizers for big business and wall street.. #4.Democrats are pro Union and pro employee rights.. Republicans are anti union.. They've never seen a labor union they didn't want to bust! #5.Democrats believe in a balanced budget.. Republicans(GOP)believes a balanced budget is bad for the Nation~Especially the Banks! #6Democrats believe in the pay as you go system~A fiscally conservative approach! Republicans all voted against pay go rules! #7Democrats passed a Health Care reform bill in the House & Senate Republicans all voted against Health care reform,and in every instance they made efforts to prevent the bill from coming to a vote acting more like agents of the Insurance industry than representatives of the people.. The only way to answer Tameas question is by listing accomplishments..hopefully this gives a better idea of the Two so called Political Parties..
Distilled1	Date: December 30, 2009 @ 9:17 PM #4.Democrats are pro Union and pro employee rights.. This is not true. (it is what they run on but in no case true at all. Clinton Signed NAFTA into law and could have stopped it from going through. I was a Union Steward for the United Steel workers of America, during this time. We lost jobs in manufacturing to lower cost Mexico ... Many many Jobs (including my aluminum plant -same spot for 40 years- where I made 26.88 an hour. - it went to Mexico along with 650 jobs) All Steel, 1500+ jobs. And more and more all kinds of manufacturing, we became a "service industry country" after that service industry that pays crap, so that we need, social programs. That was the end all of me thinking anyone cared about workers or Unions (I know where our dues went.. in there election funds and their pockets.. those "supporters" of the worker and Union.
sunshine	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 4:44 AM tameas dust has left the thread... On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment that would require all Members and their staffs to enroll in any new government-run health plan. It took me less than a minute to sign up to require our congressmen and senators to drink at the same trough! Three cheers for Congressman John Fleming of Louisiana! Congressman John Fleming ( Louisiana physician) has proposed an amendment that would require congressmen and senators to take the same healthcare plan they force on us (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt). Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go on his Website and sign his petition (very simple - just email). I have immediately done just that at: http://fleming.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=55Ã¯Â¿Â½iontree=29,55 Please urge as many people as you can to do the same! If Congress forces this on the American people, the Congress should have to accept the same level of health care for themselves and their families. To do otherwise is the height of hypocrisy!
TameasDust	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 5:02 AM I'm still around and reading ... Historically they were the same party but divided on one wanted a new king and the other didnt .. or something like that.
zedsalt	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 9:43 AM Dis', you provide a good example. Look at the NAFTA votes. Look at how close it was to being a strictly "party line" vote. Look at which party favored it and which didn't. Another good example: granting China official Most Favored Nation trading status. Our current President should take a lesson from this.
zedsalt	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 10:15 AM So, Rep. Fleming repeatedly voted AGAINST making the same government-run healthcare insurance he benefits from available to the American people, and now he's flying impossible-to-pass symbolic legislation around in a feeble effort to make himself appear more Populist? When do we get to the part where I'm supposed to applaud? He has downright Rovean (that's right; I'm making up words again) expectations for our collective naivetÃ©. Here's where I think the majority of current Republican members of Congress are mistaken: they seem to think that there is a degree to which they can ruin the proposed legislation that would make whatever passes appear, in retrospect, to be "a bad idea". They're hoping, from the looks of things, to disprove the American fact of life that...no matter how much people bitch and moan about healthcare reform proposals...when they do pass they ALWAYS look back on them favorably, and it's virtually impossible to rescind the benefits. Their distortions and downright LIES have failed to convince all but the most gullible that reform isn't necessary, so they're doing their damndest to ensure that what passes isn't meaningful reform. I think they're wrong. I think the Public Option is as inevitable as it is necessary. I think revisionist history has a pretty short shelf life. I think that if they're at all concerned about their legacies, they seriously need to rethink their positions.
ShadowMom	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 10:16 AM Sunshine, I got that email, too, and something smells.... I'm going to do a little research. But you should always make proper attribution when you quote something. That's the news on my shoulder talking now.
sunshine	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 10:50 AM i know who sent it, not sure who wrote it.
ShadowMom	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 1:46 PM Aww, pffffttt....Coburn's amendment is an OLD story! Yada yada yeah yeah, fear fear fear I thought it was something new. July 2009, big deal. For the record, I'm totally in favor of single-payer health care. Human rights, and all that liberal stuff. And yeah! I can still say this after spending the afternoon in a government office yesterday, waiting patiently for my turn -- only to find out... I don't have all the records I need. But back to the pffffttt.... story. Of course the same choices will be available for congresscritters. How else can they get their lube jobs done? It's HARD WORK being a politician! John Fleming, R-Louisiana (it took me six months to come up with this, don't expect anything else for six more), is just the House side of stop everything! there's a Democrat in the White House! Terence, this is stupid stuff (Housman). Repetition is soooo ... repetitious, not to mention just plain boring. I choose to look at it this way: Congress should not be allowed into OUR insurance pool... WE should be allowed into THEIRS. Who sent out this email? Down at the bottom, where Krissy didn't print it, is a helluva long legal diatribe from Howard Weil Incorporated... with offices in Louisiana and Texas, a "Premier Energy Investment Boutique" -- according to their webpage. Oh, "energy" -- and also investment banking... just so ya know. Grass roots, yay!!! Why do I ask for a source? Because it's important. Otherwise, it's only rumor and innuendo. And whoever Bernie White is, consider where he's coming from. I find all those disclaimers and legal threats funny on an email titled "PLEASE PASS THIS FAR AND WIDE, THIS WILL BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT" -- but that just may be my own warped sense of humor.
sunshine	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 4:05 PM there was nothing else on the one i recieved at the bottom. I would not knowingly not give sources.
ShadowMom	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 5:17 PM Things like that just get my 5 W's going-- who, what, why, when, and where... not to mention how. Unfortunately or otherwise, sometimes I spend hours just reading page to page to page.
Distilled1	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 5:25 PM yeah that e-mail snoops says is old and mixed up some truth to it. its what "I" think "we" the people would like to see, they take it as well and dump theirs . but it will never happen, I think they should try taking some MAJOR pay cuts as well
justinother1	Date: December 31, 2009 @ 6:49 PM i hate quoting myself,but... has anyone noticed the "political figure" in the picture,on my user page webcam? or,the journal entry,that accompanies it? infer what you will. i am simply amazed and disappointed,that no one has called me on this... it's called...irony ok...nobody's gonna help me out,here... gotta do it myself... (affecting a serious tone,to lend the proper gravitas to the comment) "gee,john,why is there a picture of you with the head of the White Aryan Resistance,on your user page?" well,like i said,earlier...it's called irony. i found a deeply political conversation going on,and,had a burning desire to make a social commentary,through the theatre of the absurd. for the unfamiliar... google "tom metzger" once,again... infer what you will. see you all,in the next decade.
ShadowMom	Date: January 1, 2010 @ 12:03 AM Honestly, I didn't recognize his picture, although I have to ask... did you shower with lye soap after that moment of irony?
zedsalt	Date: January 1, 2010 @ 9:29 AM Tom Metzger! "Evil"..."absurd"...it's not like you didn't give us any clues... How sad it is that evil absurdity is so common as to make the guessing so scattershot. But like my Dad said (yes, I made him look, too, and see if he recognized him), "O.k., yeah, I heard he was back in the area, but y'know, with everything I've read about him, I can't say as I've ever seen a picture". Now, is this the senior or junior Tom Metzger? I have to admit that I don't even have an idea of either's age. But I was thinking that it was the younger who set out to better organize the Aryan Brotherhood in our prisons (leading to the creation of WAR), while his father had been a prominent figure in some other, older hate group (maybe the KKK, as it has always had an embarrassingly prominent presence in Indiana, including...a recent national Grand Dragon?...the current national Grand Dragon?...in Osceola. Or did I read somewhere that he had moved to Granger?) Ideally, I'd like to see them all in the same imploding building. Which brings me to my next question- where was this? It kinda looks like one of my old high school classmates, Jeff W., there in the background...
farfor44	Date: January 1, 2010 @ 2:50 PM Congressman Fleming's idea is an old one! The first thing I noticed when I went to the Page Sunshine copied and pasted from was the date Sept.17,o9 this is way before congress passed the bill,making this completely BOGUS! I watched my favorite freshman Senator AL Franken call Tom Coburn's bluff on the floor of the Senate. when Coburn offered this amendment,Franken and other Democrats offered to co sponsor it minutes later Coburn withdrew the amendment.. And John I had no idea who was in the pic with you I mistook him for Chris Price's Dad! I wont ask how you know this man,but I did retrieve a statement of purpose from his site.. "White Racist Insurgents are not concerned about preserving 'America', we want collapse. The joke is on every flag worshiping 'American', regardless of race, politic and religion. We are not going to be satisfied with any compromise or try to reform a failed government. All of the United States currency has been unbacked counterfeit for over a hundred years. The system has died long ago with bank bailouts or stock crash and now it will bury itself. We are for the Anarchists. We are not going to step between Anarchists and the system." This to me also explains the Republicans position exactly! If they can't rule the Nation,then they will try to destroy it,by any means necessary.That's why armed militia are cropping up in many states..We've seen this before in the recent past. During the Clinton Administration to be exact! Every time the Republicans are in the minority this happens! I guess we can just hope they dont assemble the assassination squads of the 50s and 60s again,and try to force us to live under Republican Rule.. Truthfully I hope these knuckle dragging Neanderthals crawl back under the rock they crawled out from under! especially Cheney!
sunshine	Date: January 1, 2010 @ 4:43 PM i did not knowingly post erroneous information. and i truly dont believe all republicans would want to destroy america. that is a pretty blanket statement.
GTOriginal	Date: January 1, 2010 @ 9:06 PM The last President sure gave it the old college try though. Good thing he's a dumbass and couldn't quite pull it off...
zedsalt	Date: January 2, 2010 @ 9:09 AM I've only heard one person come right out and say that he'd rather see the nation disband than see President Obama's policies succeed. He had an idiopathic heart scare just the other day...you don't suppose it was brought on by bad vibes sent out when farfor44 was thinking about him?
TameasDust	Date: January 3, 2010 @ 2:45 PM Actually I think Obama is doing pretty good ..
Distilled1	Date: January 3, 2010 @ 2:47 PM except he just really ticked off the CIA
justinother1	Date: January 3, 2010 @ 4:28 PM shadow mom...around here,lye is difficult to obtain. the meth problem has led many retailers to discontinue carrying it,leading even the amish(who actually DO use it,to make soap),to loudly complain. you ever encounter a hostile amish?(other than the band?) zed...tom began in the old "john birch society",before joining the klan,in the 70s,eventually becoming grand dragon.his branch split from the david duke faction of the klan,over philosophical differences. in 1980,he won the democratic nomination to rum for the us house of representatives(with over 40,000 votes)for the 43rd congressional district that includes san diego. the democrats then endorsed the republican incumbent,who won by over 200,000 votes. after unsuccessfully attempting to win the democratic nomination for us senate,in 1982(more than 76,000 californians voted for him),he formed the white aryan resistance,and disavowed christianity,as a form of judaism. in 1988,as i'm sure most of us will remember,tom and his son,john,made headlines after breaking geraldo riveras nose,during a melee,on geraldos show. through "vicarious liability" both tom and john were found civilly liable for the 1988 murder of mulugeta seraw,an ethiopian college student,in the amount of 12.5 million dollars. short story,long...after the seizure of his home,the death of his wife,and a short prison term(46 days of which were served),tom returned to the area he was raised. the national geographic channel sent a crew out here,in 07 to film a segment of their documentary "american skinhead" by then,i was used to seeing letters to the editor of the warsaw times union(our local paper),from tom,dealing with a wide variety of topics. still,not a week goes by that we don't see at least one letter,in there. these days,he seems to disdain the immigration issue,as well as our embattled government.popular topics for the principally white,uptight,middle-class,citizens of our neighborhood. preaching to the choir,perhaps? anyway... anyone that knows me,knows that i have a really bad habit,that i lovingly refer to as "thinking"(thank you,to the prophet,carlin,for that wonderful phrase) i also believe that un-illuminated ignorance is a dangerous thing. i personally know people,around here,that have no idea of who they find themselves in agreement with. the "sheep" content,of the population,makes certain individuals genuinely worrisome,to me.(the germans thought that hitler guy had some pretty good ideas,at first) that picture was taken,at a cagefighting event,at the wagon wheel theatre,in warsaw,in. imagine my amazement(bemusement?)at seeing the author of all those thought-provoking letters,in the crowd of principally white,middle-class,alcohol-consuming,fight fans. i strolled up,as if i knew what i was doing,and simply said,"hey,tom,how about a picture?" one of his"enterouge"(bodyguards?) who refused to be photographed(imagine that)more than willingly snapped the aforementioned picture. enough... i still personally think,that,as soon as a person declares that they are a politician,they have lost credibility,as whores to popularity. democrat/republican...who cares? people,not parties make change
zedsalt	Date: January 4, 2010 @ 9:30 AM Thanks, jus', for setting me straight on a few things and piquing my interest enough to make me want to go searching for the rest. I had Tom's son, John (not Tom Jr., there's no such critter), confused with Greg Withrow and WAR (which was originally named The White American Political Association- I never knew that) confused with the Aryan Youth Movement. And I could've sworn that Metzger was living in Oregon, rather than California, but Oregon was just where the incitement to murder charge was levied. Of course, we are kind of going off-topic, as Metzger has bounced back and forth between the two major American political parties repeatedly, probably frustrated that neither is willing to adopt his mantra, "Tolerance is suicide", as part of their platform. Programs! Getcher programs! Can't tell your slimy, self-loathing, inbred hatemongers apart without a program!
Distilled1	Date: January 4, 2010 @ 7:04 PM On 3rd Jan 2012, justinother1 said: democrat/republican...who cares? people,not parties make change yes yes yes!
zedsalt	Date: January 5, 2010 @ 12:31 PM I wish I knew, offhand, who the first person was to point out that Democracy is...often?...usually?...always?...a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils... Maybe this quote will do just as well: "Freedom is what you do with what has been done to you"- Jean-Paul Sartre
justinother1	Date: January 14, 2010 @ 8:14 PM courtesy of todays warsaw times union-letters to the editor section: Big Banks Editor, Times-Union: The big banks are really pulling fast ones on the little people. I talked to a man who was laid off work where he was told he was too old and too slow. He got behind a few months on mortgage payments and now the banksters are foreclosing. He is now employed again and is trying to pay up but the Bank Of America that owns country wide won't accept that arrangement, so soon this hard worker will be in the streets. Of course, this is only one of millions in the same boat. Bank Of America took billions in tax money and has only paid back half. The banks don't want to loan out money since the fat cats are afraid of inflation that would cut their holdings quickly. The bottom line is that if you put your hopes in the federal government to solve any problem, you're out of luck. That goes for either political party. There is a great need for the states to regain power. State government is closer to the people. State government is not passing out foreign aid like candy. Not directly occupying countries in many parts of the world. Tell the federals to go fish and take their crime syndicate and shove it. Once that's underway, clean out the party-controlled state houses. The way to do that is to vote independent and begin voting for just independent candidates in state elections. Most federal representatives live at La Cesspool Grandee. Send them a note to stay there and don't come back to their districts or the T-baggers will be waiting for them. Tom Metzger Warsaw, via e-mail bumpage,major bumpage
zedsalt	Date: January 15, 2010 @ 10:09 AM Metzi isn't paying much attention to what his own state government is doing, is he? "State government is not passing out foreign aid like candy", true enough, but here in Happy Hoosierland, the state government is hardly handing out any U.S. federal money. As bizarre as it would be for an American state to take up the duty of cultivating a better image of our country abroad and meeting the responsiblities of being a great nation, it strikes me as every bit as strange that a state government can sit on federal funds with no apparent fear of being held legally accountable. Whadda ya do when the feds send you $400,000,000 to cover a $450,000,000 shortfall in the education budget? Sit on the 400 mil', cut $300,000,000 out of the state's education budget and declare a surplus. Whadda ya do when the feds send you three $250,000,000 packages to improve your emergency readiness? Bank it and, again, crow in the Star about how you have the only balanced budget in the region (while surrounded by states who have ACTUALLY, recently, gotten back into the black WITHOUT shirking their responsiblities). Hey folks, you might not be safe, but your money is. Safe "for" you? No. safe "from" you. Don't get me wrong; I'm a firm believer in state power and readily recognize the attempts to take it over in the '80s and 2000-2008. But state power comes with a heightened duty to put the right people in state office. Indiana voters have been failing pretty miserably in that regard.
zedsalt	Date: January 15, 2010 @ 10:18 AM I love the term "Teabaggers". For those not in the know, "teabagging" is a form of sexual assault whereby a man drags his scrotum (usually after preparing it by not washing it for an extended period) across an unwilling recipient's face. O.k., so it may be difficult to imagine a willing recipient, but of course, that's where the metaphor falls apart, as...inevitably...the teabaggers themselves are among those who suffer the most whenever their efforts meet with any success. What we need is a catchy term for anal rape by one's self.
BOWILLIE	Date: January 15, 2010 @ 8:42 PM ..youve been dragging your sack on me i really want to say i want it to be over.. yes it really really came as a suprise got nasty stuff in my eyes stop draggin your stop draggin your stop draggin your teabag around.. (sang to the tune stop draggin your heart around/tom petty.
farfor44	Date: January 17, 2010 @ 12:45 PM I agree with Zed's assessment of Gov. Mich Daniels handling of Federal funds for the State. Truthfully if we understand the (IMPALCO)Charges against Mr.Daniels,we find him in prison for insider trading if not for the protection of a Republican Indiana Attorney General.. Just a few words about Earthquake Ravaged Haiti.The US should put forth every effort to help this island Nation in its recovery from this Natural disaster,then we should reinstate the only democratically elected president of Haiti Aristeed Who was Kidnapped by the Bush administration and flown to Africa in 2004..Kidnapping is an International Crime,and yet the perpetrators of this crime still walk among the free...Another thing the American public should be aware of is the use of Drone attacks to eliminate so called terrorist suspects around the World..The Key word is "Suspects" In the America I know A suspect is just a suspect until proven guilty according to our own bill of rights! To me this is a continuation of our policy of assassination..In the past our intelligence agencies had squads to carry out this despicable act now its become more sophisticated! Some say President Obama orders these Drone strikes around the world I say he's in the dark about these things.. I see many similarities with the Obama and JFK administrations(ie) Both inherited 8yrs of Republican failed policies..Both inherited the culture of assassination promoted by the previous administration..Obama has had one foiled attempt on his life in Denver at the Democratic National Convention..JFK had 3 attempts,Miami,Chicago and they finally got him in Dallas..This is what happens to those who meet the shadow Government face to face,and refuse to bow to their wishes.. President Clinton discovered the value of a personal Secret Service agent Lewis Merletti assigned to him exclusively, when he saved Clinton's life in 1996 after uncovering a plot to assassinate him in Manila. A face to face with the Military Industrial Complex must be a frightening experience,but when Obama insists that He's in charge not them He puts Himself in great danger! Drone Strikes must be Stopped!
zedsalt	Date: January 18, 2010 @ 9:31 AM Stopping our ever-growing reliance on drone strikes- that's a pretty hard sell. When they're running commercials on t.v. showing an unmanned, satellite-controlled drone taking out an i.e.d. we saw, via satellite, being planted along a round U.S. troops are travelling, all from a base just down the road from Vegas...when "the number three man in 'Al Qaeda in __________'" periodically changes as we take out one after another by remote control...it's easy to forget what ff44 said about these strikes being only as good as the "intelligence" that's painting the targets. I think most of us realize how much the people we're after use human shields, realize that it takes time to mount an attack no matter how many satellites you enter into the equation, etc., but we look at those numbers...civilian deaths played down, terrorist deaths played up...and, as long as the drones aren't flying over our own soil, the idea of videogame style battling looks awfully appealing. It isn't too much of a leap to go from talking about our Governor to talking about military drones. One of the biggest designers/manufacturers is based about thirty miles from ff44's front door. I'm not saying that's anything more than a coincidence, but it is one of the few things Daniels has to crow about.
zedsalt	Date: January 18, 2010 @ 9:32 AM Erm, I meant "a road U.S. troops are travelling". I really ought to read these things before hitting that "post" button...
Mojosnake	Date: January 21, 2010 @ 3:01 PM On 29th Dec 2012, evansorchid said: [QUOTE info=GeneHilbert,December 29, 2009 @ 2:35 AM]The point of discussing politics on Dmusic... ....there is no point in discussing politics on Dmusic.[/QUOTE] Bahhhhhhh ... this happens every few months .... next someone says something about isreal/palestine stuff and things really go through the roof.... but im going back to my corner now ....
farfor44	Date: January 21, 2010 @ 3:12 PM This has been a great thread,and I think the question has been answered. We now know the difference between the two political parties,but in light of the recent US Supreme Courts5/4 decision today (making it legal for corporations to buy our Representatives) we have a bigger problem than trying to decide if we wanna be a Democracy or a Republic.. As of today the U.S.A. is neither a Democracy or Republic,we are now according to the US Supreme Court a Plutocracy! Money Rules and that's the final word!
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 2:53 AM US Supreme Court - did not go far enough. It should have declared McCain/Feingold completely unconstitutional. Look this past election McCain/Feingold was a disaster, much like the democratic party. Scott Brown baby..... Take that Obozo, there's your hope and change. Biggest fraud to every hold the office.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 2:54 AM Biggest fraud to EVER hold the office.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 9:49 AM So, basically putting a big "For Sale" sign on every elected office just isn't enough for you, you'd like to see the limits on "issue advertising" lifted, too? Well, don't go complaining about how much personal wealth a person has to accrue before he/she can even seriously consider being a politician in this country. I'd like to see more money taken OUT of the equation, myself. The situation with Brown is a lot like a drowning man fighting his potential rescuer to the point of drowning them both. We need a lifeguard willing to knock him the hell out in order to save him. I have my doubts the president would have, even if he had ever HAD the benefit of a true (ideological) supermajority in the Senate. Practically every mess we're in now resulted from ignoring the citizens who knew what was best for them, which was almost always...to varying degrees...a majority. We desperately need for our current leadership to run EVERY BIT as roughshod over the people who are trying to shoot themselves in the foot. If the President's concerned about his legacy, he should ask himself if he'd rather be saying, "I let the Teabaggers prevent me from restoring the nation to greatness for eight years" or "I may've only held office for four years, but the changes I nurtured will benefit this country for decades, possibly centuries".
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 10:21 AM I'm sure you like have that union seal on the oval office. You must be an SEIU member. Know who Mortimer B. Zuckerman is? Have a read. http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/mzuckerman/2010/01/21/mort-zuckerman-the-incredible-deflation-of-barack-obama.html?PageNr=1 Follow up. [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1oRvzHdhQ[/video]
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 10:23 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC1oRvzHdhQ
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 10:26 AM http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-19/hes-done-everything-wrong/?cid=bs:archive3
GeneHilbert	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 12:09 PM "Printers are educated in the Belief, that when Men differ in Opinion, both sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Public; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter: Hence [printers] cheerfully serve all contending Writers that pay them well, without regarding on which side they are of the Question in Dispute." Benjamin Franklin
ShadowMom	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 2:48 PM As far as the deflation of Pres. Obama goes, some was bound to occur-- it always does. But as for the Supremes, and mind you I had little faith in that gang of nine for oh a few years now, here's a taste of what the ruling yesterday may bring. I admit, it goes a bit overboard, but exaggeration often makes a sharper point. Brush up on your Chinese! Manchurian Candidates: Supreme Court allows China and others unlimited spending in US elections
farfor44	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 3:57 PM Yes he did say that,but he said nothing about the Corporation being one of those Men who differ in opinion,because a corporation is not a person.. This recent decision by the US Supreme court reminds me of the failed leadership of the past Prime Minister of Italy Benito Mussalini who's Republican Fascist Party took over Italy and aligned with the Nazi party of Germany.. Both Fascism,and Naziism can also be defined as Corporatism in fact Mussalini made the statement"A better word for Fascism is Corporatism" Fascism and Big Business is a book first written in 1936 by the French historian and anarchist Daniel GuÃ©rin. The book, which was written before the Second World War broke out, examines the development of nazism in Germany and fascism in Italy and its relationship with the capitalist families there. Its main thesis is that Fascism supported the heavy industrial sector (represented in Germany by Krupp, Emil Kirdorf, etc.) to the detriment of lighter industrial sectors, dedicated to building consumer goods. It points out the failure of "corporatism," which in effect meant the dismantling of trade unions and worker's inability to elect their own representatives, who were nominated instead by the fascists. The US Supreme Court has sided with the Republican minority in this Nation who are firmly connected to corporate interest,and the Banks..These 5 so called Conservative Justices need to be impeached for their Fascist,Nazi Decision to allow Corporate interest to decide our elections! Hitler tried it and so did Mussalini! We all know how that ended! We all know also,what Political party this decision favors.. the Republican brand at this point is in the Toilet and ready for a flush,and no Supreme Court decision can save them.. Anyway if the Republicans have such a problem with Obama,why did they vote for him in the primary?? Most people know the answer to that question..They didn't want to have to run against Hillary,and they thought America would never elect a African-American President. Surprise! Wrong again! I would like to see Obama use Executive order to get things done the way Bush did,but then the Right Wing Republican 2 headed Hypocrites will cry foul ignoring Bush's many Executive Orders,and claim unconstitutionality when a Democrat does it.. Gene it's not surprising to see you link people to Fox News,but you know most people with a brain don't watch Fox News! Obama also needs to start making recess appointments the way Bush did..He just don't wanna hear the Republicans squeal like pigs stuck under a fence! I say let um SQUEAL! Impeach Chief Justice Roberts..
Ghostie	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 4:10 PM I feel less FREE today than I did yesterday
farfor44	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 4:16 PM I agree with Kathy,Most major Corporations & Banks are multi-National now a days.. Could this be the Republican's first step to World Government??? after all they've been preaching "New World Order"for Decades!
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 5:56 PM On 22nd Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: I'm sure you like have that union seal on the oval office. You must be an SEIU member. Know who Mortimer B. Zuckerman is? Have a read. No, the only union I've ever been a member of is the Brick Layers and Glass Workers Union Local 143 (or was it 148?). Long story. But most of the time I've been a regular employee, it has been at illegally dangerous and/or illegally low-paying non-union shops. "I'd shut this place down before I'd allow you people to unionize!!!". You know how it goes; you KNOW you're dealing with a crook when you hear something like that. A few thoughts on that first Zuckerman article: "Barack Obama was undoubtedly sincere in what he promised, even if his promises were within the normal range of political exaggeration." That sentence borders on self-contradiction. I mean, if you don't doubt his sincerity, wouldn't you expect that he kept his promises within that range in order to MAINTAIN sincerity? What's with this "even if" stuff? I never considered W's incoherence "a metaphor for incompetence". It isn't a metaphor; it's a symptom...one entry on a practically endless list. It did wonderful things for his popularity, though. We humans have a habit of assigning artificial order to chaos, and when we fill in the blanks, we tend to do so with ideas that make sense to us. Making sense of his babble disproves the old adage about silk purses and sows' ears. My spirits were buoyed, briefly, early last year when that poll came out saying that nearly seventy percent of those polled understood that any MEANINGFUL positive change, any LASTING positive change, wouldn't be evident in the next year or ten. It's not the first time I've grossly overestimated "average intelligence", and I'm sure it won't be the last.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 5:58 PM That "welter of pork and earmarks" that have been added to proposed economic stimulus and healthcare legislation- I urge everyone to pay attention to who authored what. And look at the results of infrastructure projects like the high speed rail and "green energy" in China. They've suffered less and are recovering more quickly because they're doing more of the things proposed by the Obama camp during the campaign. "Some components of the stimulus did help soften the recession, yet only roughly a third of the $787 billion stimulus has been spent, and too much was spent on programs supported by liberal Democrats, which explains why so much of the stimulus money went toward education, health, energy conservation, and other activities, mostly worthy but not geared to achieving recovery and getting people back to work." I think that's an excellent point, due in part to what I just mentioned about infrastructure. You're not going to achieve economic recovery WITHOUT addressing healthcare; there really isn't any question about that. But the obstructionism needs to stop. It's like being first at the scene of an car wreck: if you're not going to help, get out of the way.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 5:59 PM "Where is the economic logic behind a stimuÂlus package that doesn't fully click in for a number of years?" I think it has something to do with the fact that that's the kind of stimulus package which has results lasting more than a few weeks.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 6:00 PM "As it was, the program's apparently stalled trip through Congress turned out to be another fiasco of political corruption, with millions of dollars allocated to buy votes, such as those of Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu and Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson." Y'see, that's EXACTLY the sort of thing that makes me think taking away the limitations on that sort of campaign contribution was a really, really bad idea. To my way of thinking, part of guaranteeing Free Speech is assuring that an individual's voice cannot be drowned out under giant piles of corporate money.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 6:02 PM "The consequence is that there isn't a single critical problem on which the president has a positive public rating. Only a minority of Americans now believe the president will make the right decisions for the country." There's a perfect example of how being possessed of a huge amount of MISinformation can be much worse than being uninformed.
zedsalt	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:19 AM Reading the second article now... "Obama punted on the economy..." I think that's an abundantly appropriate metaphor. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know anything about American-style football, "punting" is a last-ditch effort to advance the ball toward your goal (in this case, economic recovery) when your opponents have effectively shut down every other play you've tried. You recognize that you're not going to score (restore American prosperity), but you hope you can at least keep the ball from going too far in the other direction (toward economic collapse). "This health-care plan is going to be a fiscal disaster for the country. Most of the country wanted to deal with costs, not expansion of coverage. This is going to raise costs dramatically." There's a good Readers Digest Condensed Version of what happened to these health care proposals between the time they were proposed and today. The most undeniably effective cost-reduction measure would've been the Public Option. Everyone knows this. The megasized insurance companies expressed their fear that the costs would be reduced to the point that they couldn't stay in business no matter how much they downsized. Personally, I don't think this would've been such a great tragedy. Not as long as the public had an option. Pay attention to who lobbied/voted against competition. Pay attention to who insisted on mandates WITHOUT an option. Pay attention to which congressmen recoiled at the idea of taxing the high-cost, high-benefit policies. And remember those names next Fall. Remember them in 2012.

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