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What is a Democrat or a Republican anyway?

zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 6:00 PM "As it was, the program's apparently stalled trip through Congress turned out to be another fiasco of political corruption, with millions of dollars allocated to buy votes, such as those of Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu and Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson." Y'see, that's EXACTLY the sort of thing that makes me think taking away the limitations on that sort of campaign contribution was a really, really bad idea. To my way of thinking, part of guaranteeing Free Speech is assuring that an individual's voice cannot be drowned out under giant piles of corporate money.
zedsalt	Date: January 22, 2010 @ 6:02 PM "The consequence is that there isn't a single critical problem on which the president has a positive public rating. Only a minority of Americans now believe the president will make the right decisions for the country." There's a perfect example of how being possessed of a huge amount of MISinformation can be much worse than being uninformed.
zedsalt	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:19 AM Reading the second article now... "Obama punted on the economy..." I think that's an abundantly appropriate metaphor. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know anything about American-style football, "punting" is a last-ditch effort to advance the ball toward your goal (in this case, economic recovery) when your opponents have effectively shut down every other play you've tried. You recognize that you're not going to score (restore American prosperity), but you hope you can at least keep the ball from going too far in the other direction (toward economic collapse). "This health-care plan is going to be a fiscal disaster for the country. Most of the country wanted to deal with costs, not expansion of coverage. This is going to raise costs dramatically." There's a good Readers Digest Condensed Version of what happened to these health care proposals between the time they were proposed and today. The most undeniably effective cost-reduction measure would've been the Public Option. Everyone knows this. The megasized insurance companies expressed their fear that the costs would be reduced to the point that they couldn't stay in business no matter how much they downsized. Personally, I don't think this would've been such a great tragedy. Not as long as the public had an option. Pay attention to who lobbied/voted against competition. Pay attention to who insisted on mandates WITHOUT an option. Pay attention to which congressmen recoiled at the idea of taxing the high-cost, high-benefit policies. And remember those names next Fall. Remember them in 2012.
zedsalt	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:21 AM "You have to get the money as quickly as possible into the economy. They didn’t do that. By end of the first year, only one-third of the money was spent. Why is that?" That's a disappointingly easy question to answer, given Mr. Zuckerman's skill at asking the tough questions. Read the legislation. Those delays were written into the acts and bills that were proposed and passed during the Bush administration, the acts and bills which were proposed during the Bush administration and passed last year, and the acts and bills proposed and passed last year and early this year. You have people like McConnelL and McCain waving their arms and screeching about how many more delays and longer delays are absolutely necessary, but for the most part, this hasn't had much, if any, impact on legislation that is already in the books. "He should have jammed a stimulus plan into Congress and said, 'This is it. No changes. Don’t give me that bullshit. We have a national emergency.'” Amen! Right f**kin' on!
zedsalt	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:21 AM "He better get some very talented businesspeople who know how to implement things." Um..."You're doin' a great job, Brownie"...Haliburton/Blackwater...The Great Recession...any of this ringing any bells?
sunshine	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:22 AM easier than that, just vore independant. period. for 2 voting cycles. that should do it.
zedsalt	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 9:40 AM I think it would have a worldwide positive impact if those in the ultra-conservative camp would field an independent candidate in every Senate race and for the oval office in 2012. I'm leaving the House out of it, because I think there might actually be districts where an ultra-conservative might win, and that, obviously, would be tragic.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 2:04 PM No corporations - does that apply to GE? /NBC/MSNBC http://networkedblogs.com/p25357402
sunshine	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 4:03 PM interesting article
farfor44	Date: January 23, 2010 @ 8:41 PM Keith Olbermann's statement "They can spend all the money they want. And if they can spend all the money they want — sooner, rather than later — they will implant the legislators of their choice in every office from President to head of the Visiting Nurse Service". You mean - like the unions did with Obama? ACORN? SEIU?(he questioned)I have a problem with this anonymous person who claims this SCOTUS decision is a good one.It's puzzling how he mentions ACORN,SEIU(popular Republican whippin boys) and points to GE's owning of MSNBC but never mentions FOX news owned by Rupert Murdock the welthiest Republican alive! To bad FOX doesn't have the rateings MSNBC has, and those ratings are because of Keith,Rachel,Dillon,and ED! maybe FOX should get a clue! Olberman,and Stewart are friends,and they both understand sarcasm! It seems to me this unknown fellow with a blog wants to change the subject of discussion away from the real subject of the Supreme courts decision by pretending it's a noble decision. There may be a silver lining to the SCOTUS decision as I see it..If Congress grabs the reigns,this would be a great time to vote in Public financing of elections.. Even though every Republican will vote against it,Democratic majority is enough to pass it into law.. One thing for sure I got a great laugh out of this persons blog disclaimer "All opinions in this personal blog are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer, companies that I consult for, family, friends, neighbors, acquaintances or my pets".
zedsalt	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 9:49 AM GE finalized the sale of NBC a full fifty days before that article was written. Isn't it impressive the conclusions one can draw when you base the entire process on...well, I was going to say "on a lie", but I'll give this anonymous moron the benefit of the doubt and assume he/she was simply uninformed. You can tell a lot, I think, by what companies a "media mogul" owns. In the case of good ol' Rupert Murdoch, he made his fortune with trashy tabloids The Daily Telegraph, The Sun, and Star, then used that money to turn Fox News into the television equivalent of a trashy tabloid. And it will be interesting to see if he can achieve the same thing with The Wall Street Journal. One thing ol' Rupe understands...and has proven time and time again...outrageous lies SELL NEWSPAPERS; outrageous lies GET RATINGS.
zedsalt	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 9:54 AM He's still going to be in competition with the owners of NBC, though, right? Doesn't he own controlling stock in DirecTV?
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 11:02 AM http://ow.ly/16ptdu
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 11:55 AM What seems to be missing here is GE stands to make billions in government contracts i.e. (Health Care). Fox news does not. And although some like to dismiss this little tidbit the vast majority have now recognized this and are rejecting this propaganda channel for what it is. You also like to kick around Rupert Murdock - what most don't know is that Rupert Murdock is a registered democrat and voted for Obama. SEIU president Andy Stern has met with the Obama close to 30 times in the White House. Has got a sweetheart deal in the current health care bill for his members that you and I will pay for but are not eligible for. Defend that. So you can defend these crooks all you want, hide your little heads in the sand - but you are only deceiving yourselves. Virginia, New Jersey and now Massachusetts see their deceit and corruption. Recognize a freedom depriving power grabs when they see them and know that adding trillions to our debt while not address any real issues is cataclysmic to our prosperity and threatens our very standard of living. Come Nov this year a lot of dem's asses are going to be looking for work like the 20+% of Americans they have put out of work.
zedsalt	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 12:05 PM There are a great many very fine lines to keep in mind when working for NBC, aren't there? I mean, a number of NBC employees can viciously SLAM the network and its administration on air on the network they're slamming without a word being spoken (in something so public as a memo, at least), and two late night talk show hosts can go right for each other's throat, but two political commentators get taken to the woodshed over a little healthy disagreement? A disagreement which played out, for the most part, elsewhere? Look at what their late night situation has done for NBC's ratings in that time slot! I say put Olbermann and Scarborough in a big glass jar and give it a good shake every time they start to calm down! Not only would it be entertaining, I'm sure a lot of quality information would be dispensed that way. Speaking of the dispensation of quality information, it looks like pretty much all of us outside the state of Massachusetts got it exactly backwards when looking at the recent special election, right? The exit polls show that among the people who voted for Scott Brown, 47.5% said that the health care bill was the main issue they based their vote on, and 76.5% said they expected Brown to pick up where Kennedy left off as a champion for health care reform. I think we can assume they based that expectation on how Brown voted in Massachusetts on a health care bill which more closely resembled the majority of the original federal bills than the watered-down versions now under consideration. Most of us assumed the health care bill was the big issue, and we were only half-right. Most of us assumed a vote for Scott Brown was a vote against the health care bill, and we come to find out that the people who voted for him expect him to strengthen it. All that remains to be seen is whether he is going to cast his vote based on the needs and wishes of his new constituency, or if he's going to turn his back on what he said about being "...nobody's Senator, except YOURS!"
zedsalt	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 12:24 PM Another tidbit which I just heard a few seconds ago, right after I hit "post": 33% of Massachusetts voters registered as Democrats voted for Brown. Only 11% of Massachusetts voters registered as Republicans voted for Brown. On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: What seems to be missing here is GE stands to make billions in government contracts i.e. (Health Care). Fox news does not. Again, GE NO LONGER OWNS NBC. On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: SEIU president Andy Stern has met with the Obama close to 30 times in the White House. Has got a sweetheart deal in the current health care bill for his members that you and I will pay for but are not eligible for. Defend that. You mean, defend it the same way you defended the SEIU's "right" to put UNLIMITED amounts of money into political campaigns? No thank you. I personally, strongly disagree with both examples of the overwhelming power of wealth. On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Virginia, New Jersey and now Massachusetts see their deceit and corruption. In Virginia and New Jersey, they voted out people who weren't "on board" for the recovery, who seemed more interested in keeping/bringing back the approach of the last presidential administration. In Massachusetts, they voted for someone with a voting record which suggested he would pick up where Kennedy left off. I think these are fine examples, just not examples of what Gene says they represent.
farfor44	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 7:03 PM This protest of Goldman Sachs happened last November and is the prime reason Republicans hate the SEIU and any other employee Union! It's obvious who Republicans side with! TIME TO PUT COUNTRY OVER COMPANY! By John Vandeventer Goldman Sachs is starting to figure it out - we're not going away. Today, on the heels of a massive mobilization in Chicago, hundreds of taxpayers rallied outside Goldman's DC office to deliver a letter for their CEO, Lloyd Blankfein. The letter asked that Goldman Sachs forgo paying out its multi-billion dollar bonus pool and instead use that money to help the millions of families facing foreclosure due to Wall Street's risky behavior. SEIU President Andy Stern spoke at the event, condemning what he called the "Goldman Rule"; those who have the gold get to make the rules. "Companies like Goldman Sachs seem to love their company more than their country," he said. "And in the name of maximizing profits and their huge bonuses, they will foreclose on our homes and take jobs from our families while short selling America without a second thought. The $23 billion dollars Goldman is planning to pay out in bonuses could prevent every single expected foreclosure in America in 2010". REPUBLICANS SUPPORT COMPANYS NOT EMPLOYEES,BANKS NOT HOMEOWNERS,CORPORATIONS NOT CITIZANS! DEFEND THAT! Maybe they should send a Pimp and Ho to entrap the service employee Union..
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 10:15 PM "Again, GE NO LONGER OWNS NBC." Well they sure as hell did during the election. "you defended the SEIU's" Are you on drugs? I think unions are corrupt and out dated. Look at what unions have done Detroit. Nice try Zed - here are some facts and some more kool-aid for you. http://www.gallup.com/poll/125333/Public-Agrees-Court-Campaign-Money-Free-Speech.aspx http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/obama_kool_aid_WzMe9pOLiBCI8Oq0hjU82H Pimp and ho sounds like you finally recognize Obama, Reid and Pelosi have those positions filled.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 10:17 PM Something else for you libs to chew on. http://www.freecongress.org/centers/cc/pcessay1-3.aspx
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 10:19 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcBaSP31Be8
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 11:08 PM Don't worry people - the Progressives think you are stupid, so they are going to repackage their failed agenda, maybe add some brightly colored ribbons and bows - (they know how much you like that) and because YOU really don't know what's best for YOU and your FAMILY - they are going to explain it to you again - maybe this time they'll talk very slowly so you'll GET IT this time. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/us/politics/24union.html
GeneHilbert	Date: January 24, 2010 @ 11:24 PM Here is the left’s grand Platitudypus and Chief – addressing a group of sixth graders. Notice the adeptness at his use of a teleprompter. The man is a marvel to observe, and his oratory skills must make his Columbia and Harvard professors and alumni proud. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/01/24/obama_uses_teleprompters_during_speech_to_6th_graders.html
GeneHilbert	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 1:02 AM How to Squander the Presidency in One Year http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/22-7
GeneHilbert	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 1:16 AM Jack Cafferty Rips Obama on Failed Openness Pledge: 'Just Another Lie Told for Political Expediency' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pO1oJPps1I
GeneHilbert	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 1:33 AM Chuck Todd: Obama Can't Buy GOP Votes Because of Tea Parties http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/01/24/chuck-todd-obama-cant-buy-gop-votes-because-tea-parties
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:18 AM ] On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: "Again, GE NO LONGER OWNS NBC." Well they sure as hell did during the election. EX-f**kin'-ACTLY!!! That's precisely what I was saying. "...did"! Past tense! Back when there was a limit to how much money they could contribute! Thank you; that's exactly what I was saying. Screeching about the undue influence they're going to have AFTER THEY'VE SOLD THAT INFLUENCE AWAY is patently ridiculous. Maybe they had inside info that they soon would be allowed to purchase all the influence they want.
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:18 AM Question asked: On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: "you defended the SEIU's" Are you on drugs? I think unions are corrupt and out dated. Look at what unions have done Detroit. Question answered: On 22nd Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: US Supreme Court - did not go far enough. It should have declared McCain/Feingold completely unconstitutional. I don't support the union's "right" to completely and utterly overwhelm the CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT OF THE INDIVIDUAL to speak his/her mind anymore than I do the "right" of corporations to do the same thing. I have to admit...anyone and everyone has to admit...that there's much, much less opportunity for abuse by the unions than by the corporations. How much less? How much less of a say do stockholders have than union members do? That's how much less. Let's not ignore the 500 pound gorilla in the room. The United States Supreme Court just took away the influence a person, one person, can have by contributing to a political campaign in the United States.
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:35 AM Regarding that Gallup poll, isn't it kind of shocking what a small percentage of the respondents consider campaign contributions a form of Free Speech? I have to think that most, if not all, of that 43% (43%?!?) consider campaign contributions FROM INDIVIDUALS to be Free Speech, and didn't want to appear to support the recent rescinding of anti-corruption legislation. And the question "should corporate and union donations be treated the same way under the law as donations from individuals are" is one of those "have you stopped beating your wife" questions, isn't it? I mean, I think they should have the same rights as similar numbers of unaffiliated people...in other words, what the old law guaranteed...so that question would be impossible for me to respond to AND give my honest opinion. I hate it when poll questions steer the results by the nose. There are people out there, after all, who have a hard time identifying an agenda-driven question for what it is.
farfor44	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:38 AM You know these discussions are great,because they always yield information that was basically hidden before.. I'm so glad the GE subject came up,because it provides us with a new question.WHO HOLDS CONTROLLING INTEREST IN NBC TODAY??? I know the answer to the question,however Im not gonna be a spoiler and prevent others from doing their own research! History,or Reality is only what others tell you it is,unless you decide to ask some questions of your own. Who? What? When? Where? Why? is always a good place to start. Some wise person once said "You can't get the answer if you don't ask the question" 4 of the 5 Ws have been answered in the NBC question..The one remaining WHY? is the one that's troublesome,and will only be answered as time passes. WHO OWNS CONTROLLING INTEREST IN NBC TODAY? Do your own research! Prepare for a shock! Sometimes my comments may be over the top,and if I offend anyone I apologize,however this is not a game,it's serious Reality! On the lighter side Gene I think the original PIMP & HO has to be GW & Rice!
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:40 AM On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Something else for you libs to chew on. http://www.freecongress.org/centers/cc/pcessay1-3.aspx Awwww, Mr. Lind pines the good ol' days of women as chattel and lynchings to keep uppity negroes in their place. Poor Mr. Lind.
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 10:59 AM On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Don't worry people - the Progressives think you are stupid, so they are going to repackage their failed agenda, maybe add some brightly colored ribbons and bows - (they know how much you like that) and because YOU really don't know what's best for YOU and your FAMILY - they are going to explain it to you again - maybe this time they'll talk very slowly so you'll GET IT this time. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/us/politics/24union.html I've been reading/listening to/watching a lot of debate over how much our President is speaking in public. The fact remains that large groups of American citizens are getting together, shouting, waving signs about how they support every goal and idealogical bend of the current adminsistration...and are violently opposed to the administration itself. America is being put back into the hands of its people...or at least, it would be, if the people would stop protesting the process long enough to see how it is exactly what they are clamoring for. If trying to expose people to the truth comes across as condescending, that's a problem, but it's not as big a problem as the people trying to supress the information and distribute baldfaced lies in its stead.
zedsalt	Date: January 25, 2010 @ 11:06 AM On 24th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Here is the left’s grand Platitudypus and Chief – addressing a group of sixth graders. Notice the adeptness at his use of a teleprompter. The man is a marvel to observe, and his oratory skills must make his Columbia and Harvard professors and alumni proud. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/01/24/obama_uses_teleprompters_during_speech_to_6th_graders.html Anybody else getting a good laugh out of Gene poking fun at the possibility that the President might not the author of every word he speaks in public...by posting a link to something someone else wrote?
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 12:28 AM Does that bother poor little Zed - is he having an episode? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiMQgxtJVAQ&feature=player_embedded
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 12:43 AM Nice try........ Fail Here you go wind bag. Take the poll yourself. See just how alone you and your self-serving gratuitous opined diatribes are. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6116297.shtml?tag=facebook
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 1:34 AM I must have struck a never, huh Saltlick. And now - for your partisan viewing pleasure. http://videos.mediaite.com/video/Even-Jon-Stewart-Goes-After-Oba
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 1:49 AM Oh and this one is really good from your girl-pal Madcow. I can not fathom that anyone believes anything that comes from the mouths of theses morons. Oh sorry zed - I forgot...... I........ needed....... to......... talk......... slowly. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzU1MzJmOGIxMjhjYTc1Yzc2YzcwOTA4NzVkNjU3ZDQ=
sunshine	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 6:25 AM my love for gene hilbert is now solidified. john stewart is hilarious. you do however, have to speak slowly for me also. thanks.
ShadowMom	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 8:31 AM Just a reminder...don't cheapen your arguments with cheapshots at other users. Argue the POINT, not the PERSON. On 29th Dec 2012, ShadowMom said: Ditto, what zed said. It's always good to have a discussion, about anything and everything, as long as it doesn't degenerate to personal attacks. Krissy, I never let that stop me....
zedsalt	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:18 AM You're right, of course. I let my deep abiding love of irony override my desire to stick to the argument. Sorry about that, Mr. Hilbert. And my apologies to anyone who might be following this thread. I knew the irony wouldn't be lost on anyone likely to be reading, and I shouldn't have risked insulting anyone's intelligence by pointing it out. Besides, nothing sucks the funny right out of anything quicker than some jerk coming along and explaining it.
zedsalt	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:23 AM On 26th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Nice try........ Fail Here you go wind bag. Take the poll yourself. See just how alone you and your self-serving gratuitous opined diatribes are. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/19/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry6116297.shtml?tag=facebook Did you intend to post a link to the results of this or some other poll? All I see on the page this link took me to was the opportunity to take part in a poll which, to the best of my knowledge, no one had mentioned yet in this thread.
sunshine	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:27 AM the only results i saw was at the bottom where it said 50 percent approval rating. i skipped the poll. i hope no one took anything personally. i ejoy watching two of my favorite d-mers arguing politics. it makes the day moreinteresting.
zedsalt	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:48 AM On 26th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Oh and this one is really good from your girl-pal Madcow. I can not fathom that anyone believes anything that comes from the mouths of theses morons. Oh sorry zed - I forgot...... I........ needed....... to......... talk......... slowly. http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YzU1MzJmOGIxMjhjYTc1Yzc2YzcwOTA4NzVkNjU3ZDQ= As I've said countless times here in the forums, I really don't have time for internet videos, but thankfully, the caption gave me the gist of it. And I have to agree with Ms. Maddow. In fact, I can't think of a worse time for any sort of spending freeze than during an ecomnomic recovery effort. The nations which are enjoying the most rapid recovery and those which were nearly untouched by the economic woes in the U.S. are all in the enviable position they are in BECAUSE THEY INVESTED IN THEMSELVES. The politicians who screech the most about spending are sacrificing the good of the country for their own popularity. Most of the ones screeching the loudest are among those most responsible for the huge Robin-Hood-in-reverse spending of the previous decade, not to mention to the ridiculous deregulation which everyone now agrees, in hindsight, got us in this mess to begin with. You don't freeze spending during a recovery effort? You don't have to have ever stepped in to an Econ101 class to know that!
zedsalt	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:55 AM On 26th Jan 2012, sunshine said: the only results i saw was at the bottom where it said 50 percent approval rating. i skipped the poll. i hope no one took anything personally. i ejoy watching two of my favorite d-mers arguing politics. it makes the day moreinteresting. I clicked through on that link, and it regards a different CBS poll which ended the day before the poll on the link Gene provided began. Neither of which has anything to do with the Gallup poll he mentioned January 24, 2010 @ 10:15 PM DMtime.
zedsalt	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 9:59 AM "ecomnomic"? "not to mention to the"? Man, I really need to read these things before I hit that "Post" button...
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 10:27 AM Here you go - some thing else for you to complain about - Oops again I miss spoke I meant to say correct.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 10:29 AM http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnHawkins/2010/01/26/5_things_americans_need_to_understand_about_how_government_really_works Too bad you missed the poll. I'll try harder next time to be more timely.
GTOriginal	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 10:36 AM Well don't look at me, I'm a moron when it comes to this stuff. So instead I'm just gonna kick back on this musical web site and sing me a song. And a one. And a two... [b]War! Huh! What is it GOOD for? Absolutely NOTHING!! Say it again, y'all..WAR! Huh. Good God. What is it good for? Absolutely NOTHING![b]
GTOriginal	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 10:37 AM BBCode fail
justinother1	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 4:40 PM "The only way we are able to govern successfully in this country is by liberals and progressives making common cause with independents and moderates.Whenever you have just the furthest-left elements of the Democrat party attempting to impose their will on the rest of the country-that's not going to work too well." B.Evan Bayh Democrat Senator Indiana "The agony and the irony,they're killing me"
sunshine	Date: January 26, 2010 @ 7:08 PM i take that as you agree with me. thats cool.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:28 AM Evan Bayh is a fair man and he sees the writing on the wall and is smart enough to call it like he sees it. Same with Jim Webb of Virginia - I didn't like him much at first but he has not turned out to be an ideologue. However the moderates in the democratic party with a backbone willing to stand their ground are few and far between. We’ve seen this on every spending bill, and the health care disaster. But even some of those succumb to bribery – you know your bill is a fiasco when you have to bribe your own party to vote for it. Maybe even Obama can change his stripes, step up to the plate admit he's blundered - but I have my doubts. I know he is going to try and pull a Bill Clinton (reset his agenda) with tomorrow nights SOTU address - but I think his arrogance and ego will not allow him to follow through and if he attempts any smoke and mirror BS - it will lead to his ruin. So he better smarten up or potus is going down in flames and drag the whole democratic party down with him. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/27/obama-the-god-that-failed-the-decline-and-fall-of-/
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:54 AM [video][/video]
farfor44	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 8:00 AM 4 MEN ACCUSED OF PHONE PLOT HAD CONSERVATIVE TIES! THE REAL PIMP IS ONE OF THE ACCUSED! NEW ORLEANS – The four men accused of trying to tamper with Democratic U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu's office phones share a common experience as young ideologues writing for conservative publications. Federal authorities said two of the men posed as telephone workers wearing hard hats, tool belts and flourescent vests when they walked into the senator's office inside a federal building in New Orleans on Monday. The other two were accused of helping to organize the plan. The most well-known of the suspects is James O'Keefe, a 25-year-old whose hidden-camera expose posing as a pimp with his prostitute infuriated the liberal group ACORN and made him a darling of conservatives. O'Keefe and suspect Joseph Basel, 24, formed their own conservative publications on their college campuses. A third suspect, Stan Dai, 24, served as editor of his university's conservative paper and once directed a program aimed at getting college students interested in the intelligence field after 9/11. And the fourth suspect, Robert Flanagan, 24, wrote for the conservative Pelican Institute and had recently criticized Landrieu for her vote on health care legislation. O'Keefe was a featured speaker at a Pelican Institute luncheon days before his arrest. Flanagan is the son of the acting U.S. Attorney for northern Louisiana. It's not yet clear whether the plan was a prank intended to be captured on camera or a more serious attempt at political espionage, as claimed by state Democrats who dubbed it "Louisiana Watergate." A witness told authorities that O'Keefe was already sitting in the waiting area of the office and appeared to record Basel and Flanagan on his cell phone when they arrived posing as phone workers. A federal law enforcement official said one of the suspects was picked up in a car a couple of blocks away with a listening device that could pick up transmissions. \ The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information was not part of the FBI affidavit. Another official said Dai was the suspect arrested outside. All four suspects were charged with entering federal property under false pretenses for the purpose of committing a felony, which carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. "It was poor judgment," Flanagan's lawyer, Garrison Jordan, said. "I don't think there was any intent or motive to commit a crime." The crime has already been committed,and this new WATERGATE is gonna cost the Republicans one million dollars in fines for the 4 Republican opratives,not to mention bail for each of the accused conspirators,and obviouslly votes in the mid-term elections,but not to worry Republicans TAXPAYERS WILL PICK UP THE TAB for this (PRANK)! Freedom from prosecution,has alredy been promised to these committers of political espionage( Flanagan is the son of the acting U.S. Attorney for northern Louisiana appointed by GW Bush) So unless the current US attorney for Louisiana is replaced now,He will declare this a Prank and dismiss charges,just like the 4 arrested for plotting to assassinate Obama at the Democratic National Convention in Colorado was freed by GW BUSH appointee(Troy Eid) for more abt. this continuing story heres the link~http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100127/ap_on_re_us/us_senator_s_office_arrests
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 8:45 AM bobsledders - democrat or republican? answer quickly.
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 8:47 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZNUUYNwWwc
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 9:48 AM On 26th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Here you go - some thing else for you to complain about - Oops again I miss spoke I meant to say correct. "...most people simply aren't capable of making an informed judgment about whether politicians can deliver on a promise" Ouch! Talk about an elitist! "Government can't compete on even footing with the private sector" Ah, and here we thought the Public Options would provide TOO MUCH competition for the insurance companies to survive. Here in Happy Hoosierland, we've seen firsthand what happens when you turn over a toll road to a foreign consortium or hand over Health & Human Services to IBM. Thankfully, the IBM deal didn't involve a 75 year contract. Privatization obviously does make for plenty of "plausible deniability” when applied to the military, though, eh? Hmm, I didn’t realize that Enron and Lehman Bros. were government entities. Boy, this kid is FULL of fresh information! Governmental action didn’t end the Great Depression; it lengthened it. There’s no such thing as a Black family anymore, thanks to Welfare. Divorces only occur in states with the no-fault option. The long lines to get gasoline in the seventies and the Savings and Loan crisis were the government’s fault. And the current banking crisis was created by the housing bubble, which was whose fault? You guessed it! The government’s! “...government should be treated as a necessary evil, not a force for good.” That pretty much sums up the whole attitude right there, doesn’t it? Who was it that said that...well, now, I can’t even recall if it was a reference to Republicans, specifically, or Conservatives in general...but that the politicians who say “Government IS the problem” always work to PROVE it when they get into office? After that has happened time after time, who would vote for anyone who would say such a thing? Must be those people who “simply aren't capable of making an informed judgment”, eh? “Getting reelected may entail lying about what a bill does, punishing people who don't deserve it because it's popular, rewarding special interests who may help your campaign, and promoting bills that sound good but don't work. The sad truth is that politicians are often rewarded at the ballot box for pushing policies that sound good, but ultimately do great harm to the country.” Sometimes that works better than other times. Sometimes, it garners a reelection landslide (Reagan). Other times, you have to also tell some really, really scary lies just to eke out a majority in the popular vote that’s as small as the majority of the popular vote your opponent got in the election which put you in office (W).
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 9:50 AM On 26th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Too bad you missed the poll. I'll try harder next time to be more timely. The poll you mentioned on January 24, 2010 @ 10:15 PM was commissioned by USA Today, not CBS. I didn’t “miss” anything. It was never on CBS’s site; it was on Gallup’s (See it? It’s right there in the URL in your post). If you had read my response, you would’ve seen that I cited facts and a figure gathered from that page.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 9:51 AM O'Keefe was a dumb-ass - went to the well once to often. That doesn't negate what he did exposing ACORN as a fraudulent and corrupt organization. Still he fucked up..... Now for some cheerful news, "Congress Went to Denmark, You Got the Bill" Our tax dollars at work folks. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/25/cbsnews_investigates/main6140406.shtml
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:09 AM On 26th Jan 2012, justinother1 said: "The only way we are able to govern successfully in this country is by liberals and progressives making common cause with independents and moderates.Whenever you have just the furthest-left elements of the Democrat party attempting to impose their will on the rest of the country-that's not going to work too well." B.Evan Bayh Democrat Senator Indiana "The agony and the irony,they're killing me" There isn't the slightest hint of doubt in my mind that conciliatory attitude is EXACTLY the reason...indeed, the ONLY reason...he would lose to Mike Pence if the election were held today. It's no coincidence that his nosedive in popularity mirrors the President's. One of the most popular Senators in Indiana history, one of the few Democrats we've sent to D.C., is suffering the lowest approval ratings of his career, BECAUSE his constituents are beginning to notice that IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH THEY CONCEDE TO THE OBSTRUCTIONISTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE (I'm lookin' at you, Joe Donnelly), they are NEVER going to get ANYTHING in return. The main reason I'm getting a little hot under the collar here (sorry) right now is that I HATE being wrong. During the '08 campaign, I said I preferred Clinton because I expected her to be more willing to compromise. See what I mean? I wasn't merely wrong; I was WAY, WAY, WAY wrong. I also said the NeoCon's defintion of "compromise" was "when everyone else does what we want. I was right on the money there, at least.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:14 AM Here's a fact Zed - I posted the link - if you want to take umbrage and discredit it. Fine - whatever. The results speak for themselves. That's all you want to do anyway. You have that typical liberal belief that no opinion is valid except yours, and in your arrogance you feel the need vilify anyone that disagrees. Little minds and people are frightened by ideas outside their closed minded world. It’s ok – I’m tolerant of your special needs. Remember the words of Ben Franklin “Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom; and no such thing as public liberty without freedom of speech.”
Distilled1	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:21 AM comcast
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:26 AM I saw a roundtable-style discussion a few nights ago, what was supposed to be the most popular Liberal media figures in the U.S. today (and I didn't recognize a single name; I think that speaks volumes). When the host posed the question, "What has Obama given to the Liberals?", they all chimed in, "TRANSPARENCY!". When the host asked for three things Obama has given to the Liberals, that roar turned into a murmur. "Let's see...um...there's that whole transparency thing...that's good...and...um...net neutrality?...well, there were some Conservatives on board for that, too...not really an 'us versus them' issue...um...putting the kibosh on the F22 Raptor?...uh..." The next question was, "O.k., we've talked about what he has given the Liberals, what has he given up to the Conservatives? Anyone who has been anywhere near a newspaper, a news magazine, or a news television program this year doesn't need me to tell them- the everybody-talking-at-once clamor instantly returned. Yknow who has appeared on "Meet the Press" more than any other guest this year? Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingerich. Y'know how many other former Speakers of the House have appeared? ZERO. Y'know how many times the current Speaker of the House has appeared? again, NOT ONCE. If the voices of reason, the proponents of recovery and reform, want t.v. time, they're going to be forced to pay for it like an infomercial. You can't even hear most of the speeches, an entire speech, by the PRESIDENT anymore unless you have the right cable channel.
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:40 AM jesse ventura for president. 2012. he has my vote. all he has to do is run.
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:54 AM On 27th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Here's a fact Zed - I posted the link - if you want to take umbrage and discredit it. Fine - whatever. The results speak for themselves. That's all you want to do anyway. You have that typical liberal belief that no opinion is valid except yours, and in your arrogance you feel the need vilify anyone that disagrees. Little minds and people are frightened by ideas outside their closed minded world. It’s ok – I’m tolerant of your special needs. Remember the words of Ben Franklin “Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom; and no such thing as public liberty without freedom of speech.” I'll paraphrase something I heard on a children's program once: You don't have to lie to be my friend, Gene. The simple "give the President a letter grade on the following issues" poll did NOT have the "Do you consider campaign contributions to be a form of Speech?" question. Anyone who clicked through on both the first link in your post of January 24, 2010 @ 10:15 PM and the link in your post of January 26, 2010 @ 12:43 AM can see that they are NOT the same poll. "Nice try........ Fail Here you go wind bag. Take the poll yourself. See just how alone you and your self-serving gratuitous opined diatribes are." would make some sort of sense if they were. All anyone had to do was click through on both, and they'd see that I wasn't the one trying to deceive anybody. And that Ben Franklin quote stands as proof that he would violently oppose the Supreme Court decision to allow businesses to silence the individual's expressions of opinion through campaign contributions. I don't think history allows any room for doubt here; he would NOT support the Court doing what the Congress is specifically prohibited from doing in the First Amendment, "abridging the freedom of speech". There's an excellent five-word synopsis of what allowing limitless union and coroporate spending in political campaigns does, abridges the freedom of speech of every American citizen who is NOT the person within the world's largest corporations who decides where to invest each corporation's money.
potatohead	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 10:55 AM this thread is making me see triple
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 11:01 AM On 27th Jan 2012, sunshine said: bobsledders - democrat or republican? answer quickly. If the track is "public opinion" it's Democrats who act like Republicans. But no one can come near the Republicans' abilty to take anyone and everything on a downward trajectory...except government spending...and with it, the federal deficit... This is a trickier question than I first thought...
farfor44	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 11:02 AM I like Jesse(the mind)Ventura,he was a great Governor for Minn. Bingo Rich! You win the research prize.. Although the transaction is before the FCC at the moment trying to work out terms of the agreement~COMCAST is the new owner of NBC! You are absolutely right Zed! "You can't even hear most of the speeches, an entire speech, by the PRESIDENT anymore unless you have the right cable channel". THE RIGHT CABLE CHANNEL being the ones RUPERT MURDOCH doesn't own. Perfect example 4 MEN ACCUSED OF PHONE PLOT HAD CONSERVATIVE TIES! this story didn't appear on most channels..thank god for MSNBC!
Distilled1	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 11:21 AM comcast is going after Universal too! ( I thought that was what the FCC was looking at. ) I work for a sub-contractor of comcast hate it! but I do like my 22MB broadband
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:09 PM Zed you really do have shit for brains. During the SOTU address lets play Barack Bingo. Or you can select 4 different cards at: http://www.rfcradio.com/
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:11 PM Read it and weep zealots....... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:28 PM while fox news might be the most trusted news site right now, it certainly does not mean they present real news without bias. that is something that can not be found anymore. much "real" news is never reported. otherwise, wouldn't someone actually go on the real news and ask the question, what is discussed at the Bilderberg conferences. is global warming a hoax and who benefits from the hoax, we all know the answer is al gore at the top of the list. fox news actually did repeort on the tea parties, after i sent them 2 emails asking why it wasnt newsworthy when a cat rescue was played repeatedly, showing me and the world there really isn't much to report today. for the love of gawd people, lets not act too surprised when we wake up in a policed nation that we let happen and decide we don't like it. patti smith wrote something i found interesting...let me go find it. the networks have sold out, the reporters are all sell outs who should have no self respect at the end of each day, and the nation is dummied down.
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:45 PM can't find the patti smith thing, which was a well written piece...but since i am here.. "They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage." --attributed to Captain Bellamy explaining the difference between pirates & politicians by Defoe
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:46 PM On 27th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Zed you really do have shit for brains. During the SOTU address lets play Barack Bingo. Or you can select 4 different cards at: http://www.rfcradio.com/ Aw, damn, Hilbert has decided to abandon the argumentative discourse again. Well, anytime you tire of tossing out insults and want to get back to arguing the issues, I'll be here. The Bingo card is pretty funny, but I can't help but think it would make for way too short of a game. It'd be interesting to see how many times one could fill that card during the Address...not interesting enough to endure the distraction, mind you, but interesting.
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:48 PM On 27th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Zed you really do have shit for brains. During the SOTU address lets play Barack Bingo. Or you can select 4 different cards at: http://www.rfcradio.com/ Aw, damn, Hilbert has decided to abandon the argumentative discourse again. Well, anytime you tire of tossing out insults and want to get back to arguing the issues, I'll be here. The Bingo card is pretty funny, but I can't help but think it would make for way too short of a game. It'd be interesting to see how many times one could fill that card during the Address...not interesting enough to endure the distraction, mind you, but interesting.
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 1:49 PM On 27th Jan 2012, GeneHilbert said: Read it and weep zealots....... http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html 49% willfully woefully misinformed. Sad. Not surprising, but sad.
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 2:04 PM ahem....i realy hate to be ignored. lets not forget who originally pissed everyone off in here! ME!
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 2:09 PM On 27th Jan 2012, sunshine said: while fox news might be the most trusted news site right now, it certainly does not mean they present real news without bias. that is something that can not be found anymore. much "real" news is never reported. otherwise, wouldn't someone actually go on the real news and ask the question, what is discussed at the Bilderberg conferences. is global warming a hoax and who benefits from the hoax, we all know the answer is al gore at the top of the list. fox news actually did repeort on the tea parties, after i sent them 2 emails asking why it wasnt newsworthy when a cat rescue was played repeatedly, showing me and the world there really isn't much to report today. for the love of gawd people, lets not act too surprised when we wake up in a policed nation that we let happen and decide we don't like it. patti smith wrote something i found interesting...let me go find it. the networks have sold out, the reporters are all sell outs who should have no self respect at the end of each day, and the nation is dummied down. The only time I see Fox News is when I'm at Burger King. Oh, and sometimes at farfor44's house. That having been said, I am really, really weary of hearing about the the Bilderberg Group's opinions on climate change. The channel I've been exposed to it through...overexposed to it...is PBS. And I have to wonder how many thousands of times the coverage of the "tea parties" has gotten on t.v. compared to the actual hours, minutes, and seconds the rallies actually last. They've GOT to be getting better than an hour of coverage for every second they've actually meet. Talk about overexposure! "for the love of gawd people, lets not act too surprised when we wake up in a policed nation that we let happen and decide we don't like it." I know EXACTLY what that's like; everyone in America does...with the exception, I suppose of those who did like it, people who wish we could return to those days. The U.S is slowly, partially, being put back into the hands of its people. Sorry for any discomfort this may cause. But with freedom comes responsibility. The first part of the Patti Smith quote I posted earlier...the part inside the subquote marks...is the first paragraph, and part of the second paragraph, of The Declaration of Independence.
GeneHilbert	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 2:16 PM How soon the mighty have fallen. 'Obama Girl' No Longer Has a Crush on the potus Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/01/27/obama-girl-no-longer-has-crush-president#ixzz0dqUwnVhG http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/01/27/obama-girl-no-longer-has-crush-president#ixzz0dqQStHZ5
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 2:18 PM I'm kind of surprised no one has brought up the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll they opened the national NBC news with last night. I'm a little relieved, too, because I was literally on my way out the door when they started talking about the results. I can't even recall offhand which three questions I saw on my way from the kitchen to the front door, but I do remember thinking that I was in very, VERY strong agreeement with the majority on those three questions...
sunshine	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 2:18 PM ok, no wonder i couldnt find the quote, it was too busy being under my nose. not at first on the tea party thing, not at all true. no media coverage when they were starting, its almost like they had to pick out a new pair of underwear to figure out how to report it. but, zed, how can you even think we are getting back to a people run govt? seriously dude? where do you get this shit? we have no idea what it is like to have the military in our streets directing traffic so to speak. lots of countries know what a policed country from the good old usa feels like, but, my friend we don't, YET. it is coming. guess you never heard of forced quarintine laws that have passed in several states, there are lots of little loopholes being made as i write this even that can and will eventually be used against us, for our own good. PPPFFFTTT - we are one of the few countries that don't know what a police nation feels like, but it is coming, IF we don't put a stop to it....for ourt own good of course. and the obama thing was bi or non partisan, it could be george bush and still read the same to me.
zedsalt	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 3:39 PM I found that poll, and as I‘d expected, I found myself firmly in the majority on almost every question. Here is every single exception: “In general, do you approve or disapprove of the job that Barack Obama is doing as president?” I’d be in nearly full approval if he had stuck to the agenda he campaigned on, but as it sits, I’m in the 46% who disapprove of the job he has done so far. “Now I'm going to read you the names of several public figures, and I'd like you to rate your feelings toward each one as either very positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative, or very negative. If you don't know the name, please just say so” Barack Obama: I’d be more likely to put myself in the 21% “Somewhat positive” category than the 29% “Very Positive” column. The Democratic Party: I’d be in the 25% “Somewhat Positive” category rather than the 26% “Very Negative” one. The Republican Party: I’d be in the 19% “Very Negative” rather than the 27% “Neutral”. (“Neutral“? Really? The feelings they have toward the Republican Party are “neutral”?) I would be “More likely” to support “A candidate who has supported President Obama's issue positions over ninety percent of the time” (36%) than “Less Likely” (45%). “And how confident are you that Barack Obama has the right set of goals and policies to be president of the United States?” I’m in the only 19% “Extremely confident” column, part of the 67% “Confident” group, so I’d say I’m not really in the minority here, either. “And how confident are you that Barack Obama has the right set of goals and policies to improve the economy?” Hmm, his policy of being willing to abandon his goals doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me... Can I split my vote on this one? Again, 64% generally confident...yeah, I guess I’m in there. Probably. “How much do you know about the Tea Party movement?” A lot more than I’d like to. “As you may know, this year saw the start of something known as the Tea Party movement. In this movement, citizens, most of whom are conservatives, participated in demonstrations in Washington, DC, and other cities, protesting government spending, the economic stimulus package, and any type of tax increases. From what you know about this movement, is your opinion of it very positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative, or very negative? If you do not know enough to have an opinion, please say so.” Again, only 13% responded “Very negative”, but only 41% fell into either “Positive” category, so I still consider myself in the majority. “Now I'm going to mention some people who have served in public life at some point in the past decade. Please tell me which one or two of these people, if any, you have the most regard and respect for. “ an opinion question which closely, but not exactly, matches the way I’d respond “Now I'm going to read you some people who have served in public life at some point in the past decade. Please tell me which one or two of these people, if any, you have the least regard and respect for” Ditto. “Today the United States is generally considered to be the world's leading nation. Twenty years from now, which country do you think will be the leader?” I don’t know if I’d be confident in any response. “Please tell me whether any of the following represent a situation you are currently facing.” demographic question “From what you have heard about Barack Obama's health care plan, do you think his plan is a good idea or a bad idea? If you do not have an opinion either way, please just say so.” Do I even need to say it? If there was such a thing as “Barack Obama’s health care plan”, I’d probably be all for it. “Do you think it would be better to pass Barack Obama's health care plan and make its changes to the health care system or to not pass this plan and keep the current health care system?” I’m not sure 44% of the respondents read this question closely. They want to make NO changes in health care? Really? Myself, I’d like to see a box we could check if we’d prefer to keep the provisions of those original five or six bills... “Do you feel more confident or less confident that the war in Afghanistan will come to a successful conclusion?” Umm...more or less confident than when? “Now thinking just about the past year, I'm going to read you a list of people who did things that diminished their standing with the public. Which ONE of these people most disappointed you? (IF MORE THAN ONE, ASK Well, if you had to choose just ONE, which would you say MOST disappointed you?” Kind of silly. I really don’t have time for this kind of tabloid game.
justinother1	Date: January 27, 2010 @ 5:45 PM My Precious Darling Only Just Beginning,And I'm Out Of Syllab oh shit...this haiku was intended for "poetry corner" ever so sorry continue...
zedsalt	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 9:20 AM The State of the Union Address can go a long way toward answering the question posed in the title of this thread. Most Americans know this, but for our foreign friends (I know we still have at least a few of them here at DM)...at the State of the Union, they seat the members of the two major political parties according to their stated affiliation, for the most part. So, when roughly half the chamber stands and applauds for an "equal pay for equal work" policy for women and on the other side of the aisle, only a little less than half stand, it gives you a fairly reliable ratio of who supports the policy. The people who stand for it literally tend to stand for it figuratively. When only about a half-dozen people stand on one side of the aisle when the President calls for a college family tax break and larger Pell Grants, and the other half of the chamber leaps to their feet, shouts, and applauds, it tells you that this is an issue split roughly...but not strictly...along party lines. NBC's lead commentator referred to it as "planned spontaneous applause", and it's a pretty clear indicator of which stances are supported by which party. It's especially clear when one side of the aisle neither stands nor applauds... ...like when the President spoke of "the burden of working harder and longer for less" ...like when he talked about shaking off "the numbing weight of our politics" ...like when he mentioned the tax cuts for 95% of Americans, and the tax cuts for small businesses ...like when brought up the over two million jobs which were created in the U.S. last year, and the one-and-a-half million he expects to be created in 2010 ...like when he suggested $30 billion of the returned bailout money be directed to extending SBLA loans (I thought John Boehner was going to spit on the floor at this one; he looked like he had just swallowed about a gallon of ipecac) ...like when the President mentioned the high-speed rail project in Florida ...like when he suggested we should provide incentives for investing in AMERICAN business rather than sending money overseas ...like when he pointed out the success of other nations due to investments in Math & Science education, infrastructure, and “green” energy ...like when he suggested we “make clean energy profitable energy” (but then leapt to their feet when he said, “The nation which leads the Clean Energy Economy will lead the Global Economy”) ...like when he said, “The best anti-poverty program is a quality education” (or did he say “...a first rate education”? I forget now; maybe I didn‘t get a first rate education.) ...like when he said we could...and should...reduce the deficit by $1 trillion ...like when he said we should restore “pay as you go” laws ...like when he said, “Political appointments shouldn’t be held hostage to pet projects and personal grudges.” (even though he preceded hit with a stern, “I’m talking to BOTH parties”, while staring daggers at the Democrats) ...like when he said, “We were sent here to serve our citizens, not our ambitions.”
zedsalt	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 9:22 AM When he called health insurance reform a necessity, the Republican side of the aisle stood and cheered...eventually. It was one of those moments where if the President were an actor or comedian, his director would probably tell him he was holding WAY too long for applause. But the Republicans did stand up. Both sides of the aisle leapt to their feet and cheered when the President railed against the fact that foreign businesses can now make limitless contributions to American political campaigns. I saw only nine people who didn’t stand, nine people who didn’t cheer (for our foreign friends, there are nine justices on the U.S. Supreme Court).
farfor44	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 1:24 PM Good morning dmusic! I watched every minute of the Presidents STATE OF UNION ADDRESS..First off I'm so impressed with this mans Oratory skills.He instills confidence in the common American citizen who believe our Nation is finally going in the right direction..I was very impressed with his scolding of the Supreme Court for their recent Fascist ruling,and I couldn't help noticing (Judge Aleto's YOU LIE moment)brought on by the scolding. The five(so called conservative) judges looked like bumps on a log. The other four dissenters held their held their heads high. I also like what he said about the Republicans who are opposed to every piece of legislation proposed by the Democratic majority..The President has tried to be Bipartisan but the Republicans have said NO to that.. I also enjoyed hearing Him use the words(Executive Order)If it was constitutional for Bush to issue EOs then its legal Now! Best of all for me,was hearing Him rebuke the lies and misinformation! Today I'm filled with confidence in America.. What's next is the action part!
victorsskull	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 1:58 PM we will see. I watched most of it and did enjoy it. gotta have hope or we have nothing
sunshine	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 2:19 PM scratches her beautiful red head at the Two million jobs created last year. here in po-dunk Michigan, I haven't much seen anyone go back to work. in fact what i have seen, since I help disabled people for a living is governmental cuts to services to the aged, serivces to the handicaps and the disadvantaged of our society, while porkus malorkus (i always wanted to say that) doled out big bucks of my tax money to the already rich fuckers on wall street, who mostly refused to comply with any stimulation of our economy, no new loans....harder credit card laws? they just come up with new ways to screw the general public. i know of 2 halfway houses, mental patients that need jobs and assisted living are being thrown out on the streets..they are shutting them down. federal cuts. seems like 2 million jobs and 50 states i would maybe know at least one person who got a job as a direct result of the stiimulus....can't think of one. roughly 40 thousand should be in Michigan, and i can't think of ONE person working due to stimulus..not one? last year they had a law that prevented disconnection of heat in the heart of winter, no such thing this year. how many old people are freezing today in this artic blast? how many of those shelter people didnt have anywhere else to go when the shelter closed the doors? i am assuming they had no where else to turn to begin with. that is reality folks. shut them down, kicked them out. people getting gas turned off in artic blast today! as much as you all hate george w. these places were open unitl recently, just closing the doors now, these companies were required if not by law, by conscience to maintain heat in the home of citezins until cold weather has snapped. not to mention, not to mentione, the poor families who have a child that requires nursing care that is federally funded that have had decline in services available. poor indigent people without other options. good speaker. yes indeed. lets all just float away on cloud nine now. everything all better. heres one better, why cant healthcare reform be a total restructure, goodbye blue cross, goodbye promedica, we are now federally funded like the libraries and there are no big fat wallets at the expense of the indigent. a claim is a claim and not a loss. a life saving mri is considered a loss...yes we need healthcare reform but it seriously need to be to the roots of the system, not the branches. oh happy day, the president blew smoke up our ass...feel good sermons don't change lives. unless you are out in the cold today with no where to go for warmth, when you had shelter yesterday. that is a significant change, no? unless your nurse isn't coming today, because there is no longer funding, i guess that is a significant change, no? how can i put on my party hat when i see peole suffering, and it isnt the fat cats on wall street. how much would each citezin have gotten, if the stimulus moiney that we the workers have to pay for, had actually gone into our own pockets? quite a bit if i remember right. maybe even enough to stimulate the economy. who pays? we pay. we pay. we pay. we pay. our children will be paying. before you don't take me seriously on the disadvantaged of our societies needs, please consider the fact that we could all be there!
sunshine	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 2:31 PM ok, i will concede that in thoery the words were very nice. i don't live in theory though., i live in michigan.
GTOriginal	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 2:51 PM Instead of being cynical about Obama's idealism vs. his inability to fix two terms worth of damage in his first year, we should thank his predecessor for placing our country into the shitpile to begin with.
Distilled1	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 4:10 PM I am with you sunshine .. 200,000 construction jobs created .. WRONG, 200,000 jobs to the people who are already working and then its still temp. Whos getting the high speed rail jobs? well the rail workers who are working now.. 3,000,000 new -and heres the truth (OR)- saved jobs but they don't show the actual numbers, hey I got a job this year I make on avg, 8.00 an hour working 12 -15 hours a day! I have a degree! I can manage building 262 home communities, in charge 100% complete and on time.. now I am working piece rate for a sub contractor of comcast cable. (is this one of those created jobs? why if they are new is the unemployment rate still climbing?) a job that is always in demand, sadly even the poorest of poor still want tv. 2 terms of damage man you bush basher's can't stop eh? this is 100 years of damage.. from both sides of the parties yes both! hes a great speaker a Magician.. I do believe he wants to make changes, but neither side will budge.. you did see he scolded HIS democrat majority as well no? they are ALL (politicians) in it for one reason and one only themselves and their election! by the way Obama sued the banks forcing them to provide loans for homes to unqualified people, one of the many reasons for the bubble, that is IMHO 89% of our economic wores. the info is out there research it Good speach, but he can speak forever still the peanut gallery we all send from our states won't listen. I do not feel better about the state of the USA, not any worse but he didn't ease my mind on how I am going to pay the mtg again this month. or when one of these "green construction" jobs will come around. the wind farms they are building just west of me I talked to the project manager they had 8 openings (for 20 some odd sites) and over 400,000 applicants! and the factories making solar panels.. wonderful all for it great plan we need to do this we need to go green and NOW .. but these jobs will pay bare min they can and right now jobs that used to pay 15-18 an hour ( at least up north, and where the cost of living decides things like that) are paying 8-12 and they have lines to get those jobs. how do people who were middle class and own a home and have a family live on that? YOU CAN'T its damn sad.
sunshine	Date: January 28, 2010 @ 5:28 PM heres a green idea, my idea of eco friendly green cost saving road infrastucture plan. it was to take some kind of solar power energy, break it down so it can be mixed with the mortar stuff they make roads of, and maintain roads at a temperature that would prevent thier breaking down and icing over. the original outlay would be ginormous, cost saving, labor for road repairs insurance savings and accident free roads in the winter would more than make up for the outlay in no time at all.then harnessing that solar powered energy that is created when there is no need for it and somehow using that energy to power excess to homes and businesses, again making our world a greener place and less useage of our natural resources. please send me one million dollars and i will see this thru.
zedsalt	Date: January 29, 2010 @ 9:08 AM Regarding the good folks sunshine mentioned, the people who require round the clock care, the people who we would be throwing out like trash...along with every American who is in dire financial straits due to thealth care costs...if we take the focus off of this issue: According to the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics, 68,871 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the United States in the first quarter of 2009 by private industry. 810 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the first quarter of 2009 by local governments. 982 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the first quarter of 2009 by state governments. 9 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the first quarter of 2009 by the federal government. 68,985 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the second quarter of 2009 by private industry. 805 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the second quarter of 2009 by local governments. 980 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the second quarter of 2009 by state governments. 9 new nursing and residential care facilities were created in the second quarter of 2009 by the federal government. That means that if things continued as they had in the first half of 2009, we would've started 2010 with about 285,00 more nursing and residential care facilities in the United States than we had when Obama took office. But as we all know, things DIDN'T continue as they had in the first half of the year. Health care reform...how did he* put it?..."ran into a buzz saw". The number of what the Bureau refers to as "extended mass layoff events" appears to run in fairly exact inverse proportion to the public popularity of the omnibus health care bills. That is to say, when there seems to be some hope of meaningful healthcare reform...particularly health insurance reform...the number of layoffs in the nursing and residential care facility subsector DROPS. When out-of-state "astroturf activists" successfully drown out the voices of honestly concerned local residents with valid questions and shout down the politicians who serve them, healthcare facilities and residential care businesses scale back. The same can be said of their "separations" and "initial claimants" categories; that subsector of the healthcare industry only does as well as the reform efforts do. Specifically, that subsector is defined as the employees of Nursing Care Facilities (NAICS 6231), Residential Mental Retardation, Mental Health and Substance Abuse Facilities (NAICS 6232), Community Care Facilities for the Elderly (NAICS 6233), and Other Residential Care Facilities (NAICS 6239). Something over 45 million people uninsured in this country...something more than 76 million new Medicare recipients on the horizon..."How long are we supposed to wait?" seems like a good question to me.
zedsalt	Date: January 29, 2010 @ 9:10 AM *- I admire our President; I really do. But I'm not ready to join farfor44 in capitalizing the pronouns I use in reference to our Commander in Chief. And the terrifying shortage of primary care physicians in this country is another issue entirely. God help us if the President pays too much attention to the people saying he's trying to tackle too many issues at once.
zedsalt	Date: January 29, 2010 @ 9:37 AM As for the grossly understated miracle we saw last year regarding employment overall, when we consider the drop in the rate of job loss (another 14.5 million+ jobs), when we do as Dis' suggests and factor in positions which were unfilled at the time of Obama's inauguration and have since been refilled, jobs which are NOT any portion of what anyone is referring to as "new jobs" (estimates run as high as 32 million), when we look at how many of the people who currently comprise the high unemployment figures had previously run out of unemployment benefits (again, there's a pretty wide variety of estimates, thanks largely to what Dis' said about the last people to lose their jobs being the first ones who are being called back)...the 2 million figure is a pretty small tip of a very large iceberg. I'll make my usual disclaimer here and point out that I live about a forty-minute drive from Elkhart, Indiana...the Elkhart the President keeps mentioning in his speeches, the Elkhart where MSNBC bought a house so they don't have to travel to cover the city anymore...and people drive much farther than forty minutes to work there. Fewer and fewer are, though, as jobs keep opening in towns which are nearer by. Between the two municipalities closest to where I'm sitting which are large enough (barely) to be referred to as "cities", six fulltime care facilities started construction last year, and two (both ResCare North facilities) have ads in the newspaper looking for qualified personnel. So, I recognize I'm near a recovery "hotspot", but the numbers, the hard figures, suggest that "grossly understated miracle" is probably a gross understatement in itself.
zedsalt	Date: January 29, 2010 @ 9:45 AM On 28th Jan 2012, Distilled1 said: 2 terms of damage man you bush basher's can't stop eh? this is 100 years of damage.. from both sides of the parties yes both! I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise when it comes to laying blame. What is in our hands NOW is, do we allow the damage which IS unquestionably his fault and the fault of his administration...do we allow THAT damage to last a century, or do we do our best to set things right? Who would've thought that the Kidnap Congress would prove to be MORE cooperative in recovering from three presidential terms of mismanagement than the current Congress is being in recovering from two?!?
GTOriginal	Date: January 29, 2010 @ 10:36 AM On 28th Jan 2012, Distilled1 said: 2 terms of damage man you bush basher's can't stop eh? Awww poor George W. Bush! Always getting picked on by big bad bullies like me. Some of my coworkers supported Bush but they are dead now, and the company doesn't exist anymore either. Oh well, way it goes I guess...

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