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What is a Democrat or a Republican anyway?

GTOriginal	Date: April 14, 2010 @ 6:15 PM
ShadowMom	Date: April 14, 2010 @ 6:59 PM
LiQuidMetamo...	Date: April 14, 2010 @ 8:20 PM meet the new boss, same as the old boss ...
farfor44	Date: April 14, 2010 @ 11:33 PM I disagree Martin~The new commander in chief is not like the old boss in any way..Bush ran the US Government, just like he ran his businesses,into bankruptcy! I love it when a person gets busted for saying something false and expect it to be taken for gospel truth! Nice one Hilbert what you say about Social Security is not only politically incorrect,its a LIE! thanks for the link Mom~ http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp Looks like you failed the Quiz Mr.Hilbert! what say you??
ShadowMom	Date: April 15, 2010 @ 12:41 AM Btw, one of those links led to an interesting piece. We've all heard that polls show most Americans want the health care bill repealed, right? Well... it's all in how the question is asked-- which is one reason I don't have much respect for Rasmussen. I've seen some of their leading question polls. But it seems that's where most polls stop, or so they say. Turns out a little bit different than the picture conservatives paint. POLL: 59% Of Those In Favor Of Repeal Want Congress To Pursue The Public Option "A new national survey conducted between April 6th and 10th by researchers from Indiana University’s Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research (CHPPR) finds that while 58% of Americans support repealing the law a majority of those that favor repeal want Congress to pass more liberal legislation that includes a public option." The other half of the equation-- wanting repeal does not necessarily equal NO to health care.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 15, 2010 @ 2:02 AM Since 1773 http://www.youtube.comwatch?v=8zsUNnFVMsE&feature=player_embedded Health care is fine, and for all American citizens (Medicare/Medicaid) it's fine and already available. However an open ended, illegal alien included unfunded entitlement is not. List one issue/problem ever completely resolved by a bureaucrat?
GeneHilbert	Date: April 15, 2010 @ 2:16 AM Perdie Across America - Episode 14 - A 'Golden' Opportunity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFkBgoRzZsQ
GTOriginal	Date: April 15, 2010 @ 9:50 AM Call my broker, I want to buy a thousand shares of ShamWow®! They are super absorbent.
zedsalt	Date: April 15, 2010 @ 11:29 AM On 14th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Democrooks at their best. Robbing Peter to pay Paul's health care http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/01/robbing-peter-to-pay-pauls-health-care/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_must-read-stories-today That is fantastic. Just when I was beginning to think that nearly all of the long-term positive payback had been hacked out of the bill before it passed, I get an example of one of the best cost-cutting measures being slyly reinserted. It wouldn't take many similarly reintroduced profit generators like that to take the law from "deficit neutral" to "deficit OBLITTERATING". On 14th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Will America's youth wake up to the reality of Obama? http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/04/will_americas_youth_wake_up_to.html But were there any among the "disenchanted" who believed the President had done too MUCH, had tried too HARD? Or was every single one of them disappointed that too many concessions have been made; that the President had wasted time, money , and opportunity on trying to get the opposition to vote in the best interests of their constituency? On 14th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: science czar admits the big green lie http://biggovernment.com/chorner/2010/04/14/science-czar-admits-the-big-green-lie/ I'm usually a "look to the message, not the messenger" kinda guy, but on first glance, I have to ask myself, "What kind of dope smiles for his mugshot?" and "What kind of dope then uses his copy of the mugshot in the attribution of an article he wrote?" Just read the article. Never mind. Question answered. On 14th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Oops, we did that? More health care surprises http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Oops%2c+we+did+that%3f+More+health+care+surprises&articleId=95a06f2f-35f5-460b-8bff-a4dbc185aa59 That's an interesting take on the situation: Congress did something selfless and noble and just...so there's NO WAY they could've known that it was selfless and noble and just. I disagree, but I can see how someone might think that way... On 14th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: So goes California - so goes the country. Same failed bullshit, same failed policies. Tax and spend, tax and spend, tax and spend. Going for broke in L.A.? http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rutten14-2010apr14,0,5438508.column Yeah, Arnold wouldn't make a very good Democrat.
TameasDust	Date: April 17, 2010 @ 12:01 PM Now here's a question should the states have a health care system like Canada. We have insurance companies for drug plans but everything else is covered by the taxes we pay ... depending on your income it may go to 50% or over. all operations are covered except for cosmetic surgery unless you can prove whatever it is is a detriment to your life. Dental and eye care is not covered nor trips to your veterinary. we don't have health insurance companies behind every blade of grass hoping you will invest in them as they are hoping that you die healthy right after you pay your premiums so they won't have to give any of their investors money back. which begs the question .. If they have investors why does it cost so much?
zedsalt	Date: April 18, 2010 @ 10:57 AM If a business doesn't generate profits, it's not going to pay dividends to investors, and even those willing to invest in something that returns more in personal satisfaction than money are not going to put the larger portions of their money into that sort of investment. It's like that with any good or service which is essential to a livable life- you always have that conflict between profit and pride. One thing the debate here has taught us is that the insurance business in the U.S., for all of its glaring faults, is a relatively low-profit business. It's always going to seem a bit slimy, though, when you're making people pay for something they literally can't live without. Big Pharma has shown a disregard for human decency that I find pretty shocking. For example, adding caffeine to an existing exclusively-patented medication has long been a way to extend the period of exclusivity. I've lost count of the number of medications to which caffeine has been added in the name of "faster relief", when "relief" means depressing various systems in our body. In such cases, the practice has rendered the medications ineffective or worse, and many stayed on the market for years that way. It almost makes the insane profits of Big Oil look morally upright by comparison. O.k., no, it really doesn't. But it is much worse. I think we need to take a good look at what happens to the quality of care when the issue of cost is dealt with. I remember back when I was a kid, and every once in a while, I would read/hear about Canadians coming down here when waiting on healthcare posed a danger. But for decades now, all I've been hearing is that people from here in the U.S. have been traveling outside the country to get better care (including Sarah Palin's family). My father wanted some answers last year about pain and exhaustion. His general practitioner, his cardiologist, his neurologist, his respiratory specialist, etc. all suggested he go to a facility where large teams of doctors across a broad spectrum of specialties work together on each diagnosis. He was told that many such facilities have been in operation for a long time in any country which has "socialized" medicine, and all of the best are overseas. He ended up going to one of the two such clinics here in the U.S., where what is supposedly one of the best medical teams in the country informed him that he was getting old.
farfor44	Date: April 18, 2010 @ 12:25 PM [Tameasdust Quote] "Now here's a question should the states have a health care system like Canada?". My answer would be yes! Single Payer is what the majority of Americans support,but those Insurance co.s that are behind every blade of grass in the US oppose single payer,because it would mean the death of private health insurance companies..With the New Health care laws enacted recently in the US We are now closer to Single Payer than We've ever been.. Personally, due to being retired I'm part of the Single Payer System in the US,I just wish the working class had the same option,choice,or freedom to decide that I have! The difference between Republicans and Democrats plays a major role in how the voice of the PEOPLE in the US is heard or ignored. It's no secret that the Republicans are connected to special interests,BANKS,INSURANCE CO.s,Investment firms,American Enterprise Institute,US Chamber of Commerce,and the very wealthy 5% of the population in this Nation.Democrats on the other hand serve the interest of the Middle Class,and the Poor in this Nation. Republicans support PRIVATE interests over PUBLIC interests always,this explains the economic realignment that happened under the Bush administration,it was like Robin Hood in reverse! Now that a Democrat is President the Wealthy 5% is paying their fair share,and sensible regulations on corporations means an economic realignment towards the middle class and poor again.. Republicans have already hitched their wagons to Deregulation,Privatization,and Trickle Down Economics which are proven failures. If Republicans want to be a part of the two party system of Government in the US,they need a complete makeover,otherwise the Independent party will take them out of existence!
TameasDust	Date: April 18, 2010 @ 1:15 PM Rhinoceros Party of Canada was a federally recognized party ... I believe there was something like it in the USA. some of their campaign promises * Repealing the law of gravity[18][19] * Providing higher education by building taller schools[10] * Instituting English, French and illiteracy as Canada's three official languages[10] * Tearing down the Rocky Mountains so that Albertans could see the Pacific sunset[19] * Making Montreal the Venice of North America by damming the St. Lawrence River[20] * Abolishing the environment because it's too hard to keep clean and it takes up so much space[10] * Annexing the United States, which would take its place as the third territory in Canada's backyard (after the Yukon and the Northwest Territories -- Nunavut did not yet exist), in order to eliminate foreign control of Canada's natural resources[21] * Ending crime by abolishing all laws[22] * To provide more parking in the Maritimes and to create the world's largest parking lot respectively, paving the Bay of Fundy and the province of Manitoba [10][19] * Turning Montreal's Saint Catherine Street into the world's longest bowling alley[10] * Amending Canada's Freedom of Information Act. "Nothing is free anymore; Canadians should have to pay for their information." [23] * Making the Canadian climate more temperate by tapping into the natural resource of hot air in Ottawa. [24] * Storing nuclear waste in the Senate. "After all, we've been storing political waste there for years." [25] * Adopting the British system of driving on the left; this was to be gradually phased in over five years with large trucks and tractors first, then buses, eventually including small cars and bicycles last.[12] * Selling the Canadian Senate at an antique auction in California[19][21] * Putting the national debt on Visa[26] * Declaring war on Belgium because a Belgian cartoon character, Tintin, killed a rhinoceros in one of the cartoons[27] * Offering to call off the proposed Belgium-Canada war if Belgium delivered a case of mussels and a case of Belgian beer to Rhinoceros "Hindquarters" in Montreal (the Belgian Embassy in Ottawa did, in fact, do this)[27] * Painting Canada's coastal sea limits in watercolour so that Canadian fish would know where they were at all times[20] * Banning guns and butter, since both kill[20] * Banning lousy Canadian winters[10] * Building a bridge spanning the country, from Vancouver Island to Newfoundland.[28] * Making the Trans-Canada Highway one way only.[29] * Changing Canada's currency to bubble gum, so it could be inflated or deflated at will.[30] * Donate a free rhinoceros to every aspiring artist in Canada[21] * Counting the Thousand Islands to see if the Americans have stolen any
farfor44	Date: April 18, 2010 @ 1:36 PM Hummm * Repealing the law of gravity, and Reinventing the Wheel That sounds like the Republican party to me!
ShadowMom	Date: April 20, 2010 @ 12:28 AM I'm all for repealing the law of gravity, at least when it comes to... never mind! But three languages? Pfffttt.... we can't teach one effectively. Btw, how many have paid attention to Charlie Crist's doings these days? Truth be told, I'd vote for him as an independent without a qualm. Kendrick Meek (D) and Marco Rubio(R) are the alternatives. One seems to manage invisibility superbly, the other is TeaBagger superbly... 'nuff said. Looks like political fun in the Sunshine State all OVER again! :vikiing:
zedsalt	Date: April 20, 2010 @ 10:30 AM I heard about Crist going Independent just recently...the day before yesterday, I think...and to me, it reinforced two points about the Republican party's current direction: A) They continue to shed moderates at a pace which is in no way moderate 2) The definition of "moderate"...for both parties...continues its rightward march (at least in the major media) I have heard of Meek, even though I'm up here in the hoary frost covered regions of the North. Let's see...I know he's the first politician in Florida history to get on the Congressional ballot via petition. I know he's part of the New Democrat Coalition (I'm aware of this at least partially because Roemer was one of its founders). And I know...um...well, let's see...Black fella, about my age, and...well, he's not entirely invisible anyway. Not even this far outside Florida. One thing that was kind of unusual, indicating the odd times we find ourselves in, was hearing the talking heads Sunday morning discussing how many votes an Independent Crist might take away from Meek, with the consensus appearing to be that he wouldn't take many, if any, votes away from Rubio.
Distilled1	Date: April 20, 2010 @ 6:24 PM The wealthiest 5% are not paying any more than they ever have nor will they, and BTW Democrats all have special interest as well both Public and Private ... That's the damn trouble, do you really believe Obama (or any Democrat) has no special interest in $ if you do you are as blind as can be! they want to be part of that 5% you better believe it just like most people do. we just can't all be can we ... And before I get flamed, I know many of us could care less about cash or being rich But you have to admit they all have that same goal in mind " get mine while I can" period
farfor44	Date: April 20, 2010 @ 10:52 PM The 15% TAX CUTS given to the wealthy under Bush has ended under Obama,so they are paying 15% more taxes now! I don't know if you've noticed Rich, but it's Republicans in the Senate who are trying to block Wall Street reform at the current time.These new LAWS ends TOO BIG TO FAIL,and of course Republicans don't want that to end,and they sure don't want creative accounting to end.. According to Republicans,keeping a double set of books is a great way for Banks to hide their losses.
zedsalt	Date: April 21, 2010 @ 10:27 AM On 20th Apr 2012, Distilled1 said: The wealthiest 5% are not paying any more than they ever have nor will they, That's true, just as sure as every tax dollar collected in the world goes through the hands of one preternaturally thin man with sunken eyes and a long nose which hooks over a handlebar moustache that's five times wider than his head. And it's easy to distinguish him from other villains, of course, thanks to the fact that he always carries a black briefcase with a huge white dollar sign on it. If we've reached a point where we have to create imaginary problems in order to satisfy our need to bitch and moan, things are getting better faster than anyone could've imagined.
GTOriginal	Date: April 21, 2010 @ 12:27 PM See now, I always thought it was the guy with the big top hat you always see tying women up to railroad tracks with a sinister laugh, while the lady in white screams the word help as though it had two syllables. Hay~ulp! Hay~ulp!
zedsalt	Date: April 22, 2010 @ 10:23 AM That's why one needs to look for the briefcase- There's a Pauline, but no briefcase? What you have there is a jilted would-be lover who feels entitled to Pauline due to his wealth and stature. There's a Pauline and a briefcase? Well, then, that's a jilted would-be lover who feels entitled to Pauline due to his wealth and stature who made his money by skimming the taxes he collects. We're getting a little off-topic, though, parsing the various subspecies of Republican.
farfor44	Date: April 22, 2010 @ 11:04 PM Yes I agree we are a bit off topic,but I think Dudley do~Right is a Canadian Republican,because he saves Nell from Snidely Whiplash purely by accident,and she likes his horse better than him..
ShadowMom	Date: April 23, 2010 @ 1:14 PM A in every pot! That's the ticket!
farfor44	Date: April 23, 2010 @ 6:09 PM Twoand a pound of baconpays for Hip surgery! NOT!where do the Republicans find these people?? Frontier Doctors disappeared centuries ago,and most country doctors have been gone for decades. Barter for medical care! If you don't pay they'll take all your possessions! whatever.
evansorchid	Date: April 24, 2010 @ 10:18 AM Now here's a useful website..... http://lowdenplan.com ...guess I better go count my chickens.
zedsalt	Date: April 24, 2010 @ 10:24 AM Hmm, that site appears to advocate counting at least some before they hatch. I think I may've heard somewhere that that was a bad idea.
farfor44	Date: April 24, 2010 @ 12:52 PM HummCounting Chickens before they hatch is actually a Republican idea ie(Phill Graham's repeal of Glass Steagull, and Larry Summers Commodity futures modernization act of 1999)These Two acts opened the door for Banks & Investment firms to buy,sell,trade off balance sheet derivatives as viable commodities when in reality they are unfertilized eggs that will never become Chickens..It becomes a big problem when Banks & Investment firms own the same Rating firms who give them a 5 star rating indicating zero risk! Now we get to witness the battle between the SEC and Goldman Sachs! Can Goldman dig up enough dirt on the SEC to stop them dead in their tracks?? I don't think so!Can Republicans vilify the SEC enough to make them stop policing Wall Street? NO! A new day is dawning in the US, the Rooster is crowing,and the Sun is Rising casting light on the Righteous,and all shadowy figures as well..What a great disinfectant!
Distilled1	Date: April 24, 2010 @ 9:50 PM ?????? some one was smoking banana peels or something! a little off topic, but figured it was kinda of on talking of regulating banks etc.
zedsalt	Date: April 25, 2010 @ 10:50 AM You have to admit, though, that the sheer amounts of paid time these guys (at least, I haven't heard of any guilty gals) spent cruising porn sites is pretty stunning. I mean, I could care less what sort of sites they were visiting, they're talking about some SEC lawyer who routinely spent as much as eight hours/day on...um...personal internet use. How much do we pay an SEC lawyer? The one who was said to be spending every minute of his paid time on this- one of his underlings lost his job due to whistleblowing. The whistleblower was told that the lawyer was too valuable to fire, because he was working on some of their more important investigations. The whistleblower reminded them that that was precisely his point- no, no the lawyer wasn't working on investigations, big or otherwise; he was being paid for nothing. But when it comes down to brass tacks, we have to ask ourselves: government employees "leaning on their shovels"? a global investment banking and securities firm profiting off the misfortune of others, orchestrating failure and sticking it to their own customers? Does ANY of this come as any surprise to ANYONE? Just as obvious, in my opinion, is the "issue" of timing. Of COURSE it's coming out now, as we try to reach a sane level of financial regulation. I can't help but notice, though, that no one appears to be denying the bases of the allegations. Ben Stein has come around, at any rate. He was just on CBS's "Sunday Morning" comparing Wall Street to a bunch of drunken frat boys running wild, and saying that a legal clampdown on the financial sector is long, long overdue.
zedsalt	Date: April 26, 2010 @ 10:57 AM I just read an article by the head of one of those organizations that refers to itself as an "institute", even though everything about it is contrary to the dictionary definition of what an institute is and does. You know the sort of group I'm talking about; I was hesitant to even use the word "organization", because inevitably, it's a small handful of rich old scared white guys who are trying to come across as a large, well-established unit with uniform ideas and ideals. So, the title of the article is "Whatever Happened to the First Amendment?" (or words to that effect). To use two of the writer's examples, if an advertiser drops a talkshow just because the host says that dousing a certain politician with gasoline and setting him ablaze would be the answer to the talkshow host's prayers and "doing God's work", then that advertiser is trying to destroy every American's Right to Free Speech by withdrawing financial support. The writer went on to say that if a listener of that talkshow decided to stop listening just because they tired of the host repeatedly expressing his wish to kill a certain filmmaker and offering to pay anyone who would kill the filmmaker for him, then that would also be an assault on Free Speech. So, why am I talking about this in a thread about the differences between the two major American political parties? As much as it bothers me when people ask and answer their own questions in one breath...and as loathe as I am to answer a question with a question...did anyone reading wonder, even for a split second, whether I was talking about a Republican or a Democrat writer? The phony gravitas of the "institute"; the narrowness of the demographics of the membership; the inability to reach a consensus, even within that narrow demographic; the professed love for an article of The Bill of Rights, while grossly perverting it to the point where he's saying it IS one of the very few things it expressly FORBIDS; even the fact that I put what the article said into my own words rather than copy and paste the article and portray it as my own or just post a link...doesn't it all point to one of the two parties? Can anyone think of any exceptions that might help prove the rule?
sunshine	Date: April 26, 2010 @ 11:04 AM so basically you think republicans are cut and paste people and democrats have original ideas, or at least unoriginal ideas they express in thier own words. ok, it's possible, i suppose. or i ASSUME you are talking about republicans. or is it ASSUME correctly? The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of this old disease. The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim. It's pronounced "Gonna re-elect 'em." The disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behavior involving putting your cranium up your rectum. Many victims contracted it in 2008...but now most people, after having been infected for the past 1-2 years, are starting to realize how destructive this sickness is. It's sad because Gonorrhea Lectim is easily cured with a new drug just coming on the market called Votemout. You take the first dose in 2010 and the second dose in 2012 and simply don't engage in such behavior again; otherwise, it could become permanent and eventually wipe out all life as we know it. Several states are already on top of this, like Virginia and New Jersey, and apparently now Massachusetts, with many more seeing the writing on the wall. Please pass this important message on to all those bright folk you really care about.
farfor44	Date: April 26, 2010 @ 11:59 AM Are Republicans exempt from this new drug votemout??Or will they get voted out in record numbers? This to me is nothing but Republican talking points that makes little common sense,because it seems to ignore the fact that Republican reps will be included in the equation! My opinion is,this is a bad political move by the Republicans,that could backfire on them,but then again it wouldn't be the first time they shot themselves in the foot!
ShadowMom	Date: April 26, 2010 @ 1:11 PM The most disturbing thing about the R party to me is the single-minded way they tend to want to incinerate anyone who doesn't agree with their flag-waving, Constitution-wrapping hard line-- you are either with them or you are against them-- and THEY are the only patriots. That's just pure bullshit. The single incident that points out how aberrant this behavior is, in my opinion, is the story of Charles Johnson, who founded the website Little Green Footballs-- and used to be a darling of the right, with his hawkish defense of Bush's wars. Then one day, he disagreed -- and was attacked so savagely he even moved because of threats. A blogger's parting with the right And while I remember calls for impeachment of the Bush-man, I don't recall very many times when violence and insurrection were called for in such an open way. It is somewhat reminiscent of cults, and how they teach by rote the same bumper-sticker slogans and total obedience to the party line. Of course, Dems have no real party lines-- we can't agree on much of anything!
Supertzar	Date: April 26, 2010 @ 5:22 PM I can't fucking wait till November!
zedsalt	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 10:51 AM S'Mom brings up a sharp, consistent contrast between the two major parties: you disagree with the Republicans, and they'll point guns at you; you disagree with Democrats, and they'll support your "right" to point guns at them. On 26th Apr 2012, ShadowMom said: Of course, Dems have no real party lines-- we can't agree on much of anything! I should clarify that when I said, "the inability to reach a consensus, even within that narrow demographic", I was referring to the membership of those phony "institutes", rather than the Republican party as a whole. Obviously, neither party has a monopoly on disagreement within their ranks, a lack of cohesiveness. The Democrats seem to be in a contest for who can be the most Republican, and there are some Republicans who will support legislation which they think will benefit their constituents, regardless of which other politicians might benefit. On 26th Apr 2012, Supertzar said: I can't fucking wait till November! The more I read about the primaries, the more eager I am to see what happens this Spring. The Republican candidates (I suppose when it comes to the primaries in my district, I can simply refer to them as "the candidates") are all betting on "Dubya's problem was he just didn't go far enough" platforms, and the buzz among people who actually vote in Republican primaries strongly favors moderation. It looks like neither party is fielding the kind of candidates their constituency wants this year. Still, there are plenty of people here who will do as they do every two years and call the county Republican office so they can fill out their primary crib sheets. The big question might well become whether there are enough thoughtful Republican voters to prevent the Republican primaries from becoming what they usually are around here: more "coronations" than "contests". That could make things interesting next Fall.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 12:53 PM DEMOCRATS HID DAMNING HEALTH CARE REPORT FROM PUBLIC UNTIL A MONTH AFTER VOTE http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/04/27/breaking-dems-hid-damning-health-care-report-from-public-until-a-month-after-vote/ Denial, denial, denial - Dems are leading us to ruin, and flat out lying - and the kool-aid drinkers keep making excuses and burying their head and holding their noses hoping no one notices or spinning the bullshit...... Huh Zed
Supertzar	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 1:50 PM Gene I just saw the story about that report. HHS refused to release the report that showed the massive increase the health care bill would cause until well after the vote. The reason they gave for not making it public was to not influence the vote. The HHS report says the bill will increase health care costs to Americans to the tune of 500+ billion. The white house was notified about the report by HHS but chose to bury it instead of telling the public and congress. Remember the dems promised this bill would lower health care costs (What a joke). This increase is with the proposed 500 billion cut to Medicare. We know the Medicare cut will never happen so the total increase is over a $1,000,000,000,000 (trillion).This administration and the Dems in congress are obviously totally insane.
Supertzar	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 2:03 PM This administration and the house and senate democrats have already done more damage to America than any group of terrosits could ever do! These Progressive Liberal Socialists will if left in power destroy this country. Come on Zed,Mom,Farfor and all that think this is progress WAKE UP! Do you really want to be like Greece?
farfor44	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 5:50 PM "A damning health care report generated by actuaries at the Health and Human Services (HHS) Department" FOX NEWS! The actual ACTUARIES refused to give their names,so that this bit of propaganda could be called "A Damning Health Care Report"by FOX! If I'm to believe a story~ give me a named source..In an information driven society unnamed sources are not accepted,because an unnamed source can't be cross referenced.. Information is intentionally left out of this story,but no surprise ITS FOX which is the exact reason I never believe anything I hear on FOX so called NEWS! I look further in the story for a name and find this~"according to career HHS sources" and this~”says an HHS source" and again~. “We know a copy was sent to the White House via their legislative affairs staff,” says the HHS staffer" Bottom line~Real News considers unnamed sources to be unreliable,so who is actually in denial here,and who actually has their heads in the sand?? Give me the name of the HHS Staffer or I'll consider this story Republican PROPAGANDA!! Like it or not Republicans,The Democrats are going to Govern this Nation just fine,WE THE PEOPLE voted them in to do a Job, and we're gonna stand by them till they get it done! I echo Zed's comment~ Dems are showing up for the Primaries in large numbers so we can be effective in controlling not only the direction of the Dems,but to a certain degree the Repubs as well! Indiana's Next Senator Brad Ellsworth is awesome!
Distilled1	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 8:14 PM Welcome to the People Republic of the Chicago Machine! Now drop your pants and bend over, this is going to hurt!
ShadowMom	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 11:51 PM Washington Post Damn those REAL journalists! Once again, Breitbart is NOT a journalist just because he says he is... and obviously, neither is Jim Hoft, who wrote the article... Media Matters ...and neither is "The Prowler" -- an amateur Deep Throat, it would seem...whisper whisper... ABC News ...and another MSM source, debunking this wonderful waste of time. You know, in 2000, I thought it was a mistake to elect Bush. In 2004, I was positive. But I realized the world woudn't end, although it appears that the right TRIED their best to run our country into the ground; and I also realized that the majority rules, for better or for worse. I wasn't happy that most of the world hated us. I definitely wasn't happy that we got involved in not one, but two wars. There were lots of things I thought were wrong, but hey! I was OUTVOTED. 2008, and guess what? The side I voted with WON! And I still don't think the world will end. But strange thing... I have this faith in our system, that anything can be fixed. And I wonder why so many R's now seem to believe the end is here if Pres. Obama and the D's provide a little balance -- because that's the way the system works. And as for November-- what do you think will change, IF there's a change in Congress? The Republicans won't have a lock for at least two more years; all they'll be able to do is challenge the president's every step, exactly like they are doing now. It seems to me the worst thing we can do is nothing. It seems to be the new Republican way. I actually miss real conservatives, not the Dick Cheney warmonger-fear selling-neocons, not the gun-toting Bible-touting religious hypocrites, nor the ones who want to preserve the Old Order-- but real, let's get down to nuts-and-bolts conservatives who knew how to pinch the hell out of a penny-- but they seem to be extinct. And the new conservatives aren't very impressive. People cannot live under a cloud of constant fear. And that's what they seem to sell these days.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 27, 2010 @ 11:56 PM http://images2.dmusic.com/users/g/e/n/genehilbert/68429.jpg
ShadowMom	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 12:03 AM You know, personal attacks like that don't add to the discussion. Don't make me take out Paint, Gene!
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:20 AM On 27th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: DEMOCRATS HID DAMNING HEALTH CARE REPORT FROM PUBLIC UNTIL A MONTH AFTER VOTE http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010/04/27/breaking-dems-hid-damning-health-care-report-from-public-until-a-month-after-vote/ Denial, denial, denial - Dems are leading us to ruin, and flat out lying - and the kool-aid drinkers keep making excuses and burying their head and holding their noses hoping no one notices or spinning the bullshit...... Huh Zed Now, isn't that something? Plug these figures into a search engine, and all of the most recent results come up about some report generated by actuaries at the Health and Human Services less than a week before the final vote on the omnibus healthcare bill...which was hidden by Kathleen Sebelius...a report in which it was said that if the omnibus healthcare bill went through, medical costs would skyrocket, rising $389 billion 10 years. 14 million would lose their employer-based coverage. Millions of Americans would be left without insurance, and millions more would be dumped into the already overwhelmed Medicaid system. But as one goes further back in the results, all of those claims dissipate, and every link regards some report generated by actuaries at the Health and Human Services, publicized in a press conference called by Kathleen Sebelius less than a week before the final vote on the omnibus healthcare bill- a report in which it was said that if the omnibus healthcare bill did not go through...if in its stead, we put the biggest detriment to our economy on the backburner yet again and did absolutely nothing...medical costs would skyrocket, rising $389 billion 10 years. 14 million would lose their employer-based coverage. Millions of Americans would be left without insurance, and millions more would be dumped into the already overwhelmed Medicaid system. The same dates, the same bureaucrats, the exact same figures...with one major difference: the HHS records, the media archives, and transcriptions of the Congressional hearings regarding the time the report was publicized all refer to it as a political tactic to PROMOTE THE BILL. Well, the HHS records contain notations saying that it would be advantageous for their department if the figures were made public, at least; they didn't go so far as to refer to it as a "tactic". The most damning portions of the media reports and the congressional record refer to the release of the report...particularly the timing of Sebelius' press conference...as a "scare tactic", biased speculation as to the worst of what could happen should the bill fail to pass. And to my way of thinking, that's a fair accusation. The figures ARE frightening. The speculation was EXACTLY that: pure speculation- an educated guess, but a guess nonetheless. And...again, just my personal take on the situation...it carried a lot less weight and seemed much more subject to exaggeration due to the fact that it came from employees of a department of the federal government which stood to benefit from the bill's passage into law. At least, it makes more sense, to me, to refer to the report as a "scare tactic" than what Hoft is proposing: that when the HHS actuaries said "what will happen if the bill doesn't pass" what they really meant "what will happen if the bill does pass", and that these selfless servants of the public were doing their best to say, "NO!!! PLEASE DON'T SHOVEL HORDES OF NEW EMPLOYEES AND BIG BAGS OF MONEY INTO OUR DEPARTMENT!!!"
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:23 AM On 27th Apr 2012, Supertzar said: Do you really want to be like Greece? Recent Greek history is an excellent example of how to wreck a national economy: lowering the tax rate on it’s wealthiest citizens, massive increases in governmental spending to benefit strictly the largest and most profitable of private corporations both within the country and abroad, constant decreases in national funding to promote the health and welfare of the average citizen, refusing time and time again to implement commonsense financial reform, refusing to enforce what few financial regulations which were already ensconced in national and international law, encouraging the exodus of manufacturing, encouraging the industrialization of agriculture, pressing for a more service industry-based national economy, providing incentives to petroleum companies to help them compete against more sustainable sources of energy... ...is this starting to sound familiar to anyone else, or is it just me? There’s an arrogance in this country which makes some believe that what happened to Greece could never happen in the U.S. If the economic policies of the Bush administration had continued, if our federal deficit expressed as percentage of GDP had continued to increase at the rate it did from 2001 to 2009, not only would we reach Greek’s current status, we’d do so in just 5.6 years. Hitting that 113% mark is still a very real possibility. All we would have to do to give ourselves a good Greek-style reaming is elect people to Congress who promise to bring back the same failed policies which caused these difficulties.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:35 AM Costly IRS Mandate Slipped into Health Bill http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/26/costly-irs-mandate-slipped-into-health-bill/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20Cato-at-liberty%20%28Cato%20at%20Liberty%29
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:37 AM EDITORIAL: Angry, hateful, violent, extremist liberals http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/28/angry-hateful-violent-extremist-liberals/
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:42 AM On 28th Apr 2012, ShadowMom said: You know, personal attacks like that don't add to the discussion. Don't make me take out Paint, Gene! I don't think what Gene said was specific enough to be classified as a personal attack, and I'm not just saying that because I agree with him. "With this kind of a brain, it's no wonder the U.S. is in trouble." Even though I'm a U.S. citizen, part of that collective "brain" which...by a simple (pun intended) majority couldn't understand the bill, no matter how plainly it was laid out...I'm not offended. Gene's statement was more cynical and mean-spirited than any I would've used, but I can definitely identify with his frustration with that 64% or 67% or whatever who refused to try to understand the legislation. The only quizzical thing about it is the fact that it came from our Gene Hilbert.
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:47 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Costly IRS Mandate Slipped into Health Bill http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/26/costly-irs-mandate-slipped-into-health-bill/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:%20Cato-at-liberty%20%28Cato%20at%20Liberty%29 WHAT?!?! BUSINESSES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FILE THE SAME SORT OF PAPERWORK INDIVIDUALS DO IN ORDER TO CLAIM DEDUCTIONS?!? THAT'S...well, the only outrageous aspect of that is that it wasn't already the case.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:51 AM Why reporters are down on President Obama http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/36454.html
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:54 AM Poor little libs are so victimized....... Pitiful little things, do they want their bankie?
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:58 AM Jon Voight calls out Barack Obama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=253PiA7zIl4
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 10:59 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: EDITORIAL: Angry, hateful, violent, extremist liberals http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/28/angry-hateful-violent-extremist-liberals/ Thanks for pointing this article out. The deluge of exaggerated, sensationalized, "How large does the kernel of truth have to be before we can use phrases like 'violent angry mob'?" style "journalism" had completely drowned out this little story about how even though it was the banner headline for pretty much every major news publication in the U.S., and every major network evening news television broadcast led with the story, it was "overlooked".
zedsalt	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 11:09 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Why reporters are down on President Obama http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/36454.html I can see why they'd be angry. Even though there's never been a President who was more accessible to the press, when he sneezes, the White House publicizes the news before anyone can say "Gesundheit". Wait a minute...insulting people who opposed the omnibus healthcare bill...pointing out that maybe the media isn't in Obama's back pocket after all...O.K., DAMMIT, WHO HACKED GENE HILBERT'S DM ACCOUNT?!?
farfor44	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 12:28 PM A little Greek Philosophy may be helpful to Republicans! Aristotle * Born: 384 B.C. * Birthplace: Stagira, Macedonia (now Greece) * Died: 322 B.C. * Best Known As: The author of Ethics Aristotle is one of the "big three" in ancient Greek philosophy, along with Plato and Socrates. (Socrates taught Plato, who in turn instructed Aristotle.) Aristotle spent nearly 20 years at Plato's Academy, first as a student and then as a teacher. This may be completely over some people's heads,however I've discovered Aristotle to be the father of LOGIC,and REASON..Even though this man lived in ancient times,his teachings on how to distinguish between preconceived Notions and FACT still exists today. Philosophy is a Greek word meaning(the love of wisdom)I prefer the word Understanding,because it just seems less egotistical,but the reality is the same. I won't bore anyone with all of Aristotle's teachings,but Republicans in general need to understand the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning,and this ancient philosopher explains it perfectly.. Read and UNDERSTAND how an ancient thinker has shaped current REALITY!
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 12:59 PM N.Y. Times columnist: Death panels will save 'a lot of money' http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=134401 Kiss grandma good-bye
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 1:04 PM Administration comes clean, explains death panels http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-35976-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d28-White-House-introduces-death-panels Been nice knowing you and all.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 1:15 PM and then there is - Geithner May Be CRIMINALLY Charged? http://networkedblogs.com/3lbcI I say odds are Holder and Obamamama will sweep this away like the rest of their criminal bullshit behavior.
GeneHilbert	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 1:46 PM Our government at work. Pelosi Calls Press Conference to Unveil $140,000 Light Fixtures in House Cafeteria http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=64503 I bet you'll sleep safer now.
GTOriginal	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 4:15 PM Broker? More shares of ShamWow® please...
ShadowMom	Date: April 28, 2010 @ 6:17 PM It is good to see Gene having a little fun, but there's just soooo much wrong with most of those stories, I don't know if it's worth it to respond anymore. The lady who died? TWO YEARS AGO. After the drug company agreed to give her the medicine anyway. Under the Oregon Health Plan, NOT the new healthcare plan. Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, a really GOOD place to start. You see, Oregon is, I believe the only state that allows Death With Dignity, a choice. CHOICE. Read that word again. And from the battlefield state of Florida, home to one Terri Schiavo, I'm getting a bit tired of the talk of death panels. You have NO idea what impact that had on my state, thanks in large part to the other Bush. Just as a side note, the SEC story about porn? Also two years old. Stop digging up dead bodies and trying to tell us they're all FRESH!! And somehow Obama's fault! You should have been pissed off TWO YEARS AGO. Geithner? IF he did it, let it come out in court. I find it odd that a prosecutor would announce that he might charge someone. Usually, they just DO it. Thank GAWD this one doesn't appear to be TWO YEARS OLD. Btw, Gene, you're almost solely responsible for providing me with some really interesting reading material lately. Thanks!
GeneHilbert	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 12:42 AM I love this – this is the best synopsis I’ve ever read. I only wish I were the author. "The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to an electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president." -- Author Unknown
GTOriginal	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 3:01 AM Sad this thread is the sum total of activity on D-MUSIC these days. After 8 years of GW-Nazi-Bush murdering innocents here and abroad while raping Americans of their basic liberties, the previous post is a damn joke. If I were the author of that garbage, I would remain anonymous too. But I digress... To answer the original question of this thread: Republicans think of America as a Republic, ie: the People's Republic of China, the Republican Guard under Sadaam Hussein, or the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Republican. Democrats on the other hand, think of America as a Democracy. Plain and simple. For SEVEN more years at the very least, this country is going to heal. I have job offers on the table, unheard of during the Bush regime. My taxes have not gone up as predicted by Republican doomwishers, in fact they have gone down quite a bit across the board. I could continue, but really the facts are speaking for themselves quite nicely. The rest is only a bunch of whining/crying. ShamWow®, please.
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 10:02 AM On 27th Apr 2012, ShadowMom said: Once again, Breitbart is NOT a journalist just because he says he is... This Breitbart is an interesting character. He grew up in an especially privileged portion of an especially privileged neighborhood on the especially privileged side of an especially privileged city in an especially privileged state in an especially privileged country. He went to a very expensive, elite private school where, as his lifelong friend and business partner, Larry Solov, said, “You got A’s and bought into a system set up to get you into an ivy league college. Andrew got C’s.” I’ve got to pause for a moment here. “You got A’s“? Does he mean whether you really earned them or not? “...set up to get you into an ivy league college”? Does he mean get you enrolled, even if you didn’t deserve it? According to other graduates, yes on both counts. Breitbart has repeatedly proven that he can have all the cards stacked in his favor, and still manage to lose the game. He ended up at Tulane where, in his words, he “was a drunk” who eventually “graduated with a degree in nihilism and nothingness”. Is Nihilism and Nothingness a Bachelors of Science or a Bachelors of Art? He went back to Los Angeles and partied away his parents’ money for about half a decade, then went to “work” for The Drudge Report. Matt Drudge refuses to comment about Breitbart. Drudge introduced him to Arianna Huffington. Arianna Huffington refuses to comment about Breitbart. A couple of the articles I read credited him with helping Huffington to launch her website, but in Breitbart’s words, he “was a slacker”. Still, she allowed him to stay on board until he left on his own terms when he “discovered the rest of the staff were Liberals”. The first bit of “news” on his own site was the O’Keefe/Giles debacle, and word has it he’s launching a new site using another video made by the same purveyors of felonious fiction at HUD offices. Expectations run high that it will be another instance of him making something (big bags of advertising dollars) out of nothing (ridiculous lies), and making nothing (his status) out of something (every advantage a spoiled brat could want).
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 10:08 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: Administration comes clean, explains death panels http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-35976-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d28-White-House-introduces-death-panels Been nice knowing you and all. I’m having an internal debate right now over which was funnier: Sunshine’s buddy pointing out the section of the healthcare bill which expressly exempted RFIDs as “medical devices”, saying that it was proof that not only were they defined as such, but would be required soon of all American citizens, or this bit of anti-logic, wherein by making corporate death panels illegal, the government is supposedly creating death panels. “I told you so”?!? You sure did, Sarah baby; I can’t help but be reminded of that every time I see that brain-dead look on your face. To paraphrase, DIG BABY DIG! One bit of anti-logic that is rubbing me the wrong way at the moment, though, is the doublespeak regarding financial reform. The plan is to do away with the “too big to fail” concept and taxpayer-funded bank bailouts by requiring the banks to pay into an emergency fund which would protect investors and employees of banks which do poorly enough that they are obligatorily dismantled. Opponents to the reform are screeching that it is another bailout. Dismantling equals bailing out? Makes you glad that we’re “all in the same” figurative “boat", rather than a literal one, doesn’t it?
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 10:12 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: and then there is - Geithner May Be CRIMINALLY Charged? http://networkedblogs.com/3lbcI I say odds are Holder and Obamamama will sweep this away like the rest of their criminal bullshit behavior. If you can find someone willing to bet that the SIGTARP will somehow come up with evidence of an illegal act by Geithner and the FRBNY in this case, let me know. I’d like to get in on a little of that action! By the same token, I’d put money on Barofsky being exposed as a crook of one sort or another when the FoIA sheds light on the 2008 AIG bailout. I don’t enjoy gambling AT ALL. I don’t think either of those bets would really qualify as such, though.
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 10:45 AM On 28th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: EDITORIAL: Angry, hateful, violent, extremist liberals http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/28/angry-hateful-violent-extremist-liberals/ The lead story on the front page of our biggest local newspaper yesterday, with a giant headline in bold type and large color pictures was...well, I guess now that I stop and get a look at it again, it's a story about a hospitalized veteran. That was really nice. Beautiful, as a matter of fact...but the second story, the one with a headline that crossed the entire front page, was one long racist rant seeking to justify the police state that has been created in the state of Arizona. "The frustration has been building for years in Arizona with every drug-related kidnapping, every home invasion, every 'safe house' crammed with illegal immigrants from Mexico." That's the "grabber", the one line print journalists rely on to pique readers' interest. The problem with this article is, it never calms down and gets serious. Or honest. That is, unless you believe that it's been years since a drug-related kidnapping or home invasion in Arizona has had a single perpetrator who was NOT an illegal immigrant from Mexico. Maybe that explains Arizona's recent population explosion. It appears that I, for example, could move there, kick in some poor family's door, kill the daddy, rape the mommy, and if the police interrupted me just as I was duct-taping the kids to the furniture, I could simply pull back my sleeve and say, "Look. White." Maybe I could get those there to "serve and protect" to help me load my truck. After all, according to this article, there's a good reason that some brown-skinned gent whose family has lived in what is now Arizona since long before there was a United States can be shaken down every day by a relative newcomer whose girlfriend he stole back in high school. You're not in the "land of the free" any more, motherfucker; you're in ARIZONA! This would bother me a little less if I could find some sort of retraction regarding the giant photo of a rock-wielding "protester" who turned out to be a vigilante "border guard" they ran earlier in the week...
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 11:12 AM On 29th Apr 2012, GeneHilbert said: I love this – this is the best synopsis I’ve ever read. I only wish I were the author. OOH! That's an easy one! Tom Metzger has a database of newspapers which will publish anonymous letters to the editor, and he sent every one of them the following letter back in 2008, changing the name of the newspaper, the location, and details about the newspaper's hometown each time to make himself come across as a local: "I'm generally concerned about the future of my country. I grew up in small town America, in the greatest state in that country, and in the greatest country in the World! I couldn't be luckier! Well this country has really seemed to be on a downward spiral ever since the 80's! Even though I was young I still remember and still hear everybody talk about how great the 80's were with Ronald Reagan! Anybody who disagrees was either too young or is too stupid to relize how amazing of a time that was. I fear for the future of this once great country and I feel for its people that a year ago thought a known socialist could fix it! Know adays I hear more people talk about moving out of the country or Oklahoma and Texas succeeding from the Union and starting there own country. Well if we countinue down this path I fear succeeding from the union will be the best solutions to the problems we are facing! Now I know Urban Tulsa is the most liberal thing to ever come out of Ttown and it wouldn't dare report on anything like the truth, freedom, or republican values even though 90% of the state your in still votes that way. The liberal media is so bent on turning the whole world into another communist dictatorship that they've forgotten about how great this country is and used to be without trying to turn it into western europe. All im asking of the people who report for this magazine is remember Oklahoma is an amazing state with proud heritage and proud people, remember your okie values if are even from oklahoma and quit trying to turn us into the coastal states, they are different from us and don't share are traditional down home values! I leave you with this, The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president." Yeah, that's been around for years! We've discussed its author in this very thread! Happy to help.
Mojosnake	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 11:26 AM according to the replies counter I'm to be the 666'th reply to this tread .... AWESOME long live the NEW WORLD ORDER!!!!!I'd be happy to spend time at the fema camps with the lot of ya..
zedsalt	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 11:34 AM Eww, no! Haven't you heard? There are all sorts of lawsuits in the courts right now over the toxicity of those trailers (almost all of which...if not all...were built just a little ways northeast of where I'm sitting right now).
Mojosnake	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 11:41 AM exactly the reason they are for dissidents like anyone who seriously believes what they see in this world is in any way the truth. toxic trailer kill quicker... yes Ive been watching way to much you tube lately but it would be interesting to see if martial law will hit ...... no matter what I do believe that is coming as soon as athey tell you your money is useless and you must use the "Amero" ...hopefully they will have put me in a rubber room by then .... one can hope
farfor44	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 5:13 PM Matt if those trailers were built for dissidents,and anarchist instead of those made homeless by hurricane Katrina, a crime was still committed by FEMA under BUSH's watch! Remember"Great Job Brownie" If I was a member of the jury who decides this case,Bush and Brown would have a lot of explaining to do. I see I have no Republican takers on my advice for them to study Aristotle's easy guide to REALITY... What I read from Republicans instead in this thread and others is a constant stream of ~This is true right?When it's found to be false they don't admit they were wrong ever they just move on to another fabrication or bit of propaganda..Well what about this?FALSE! Then maybe you'll believe this? No! I'm beginning to think Republicans don't really know what REALITY is! Prove Me wrong please!
Supertzar	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 8:06 PM I guess we republicians are just human and as humans we make mistakes. Unlike you smug flawless Demos that never make mistakes and are never wrong about anything. Stick Aristotle up your ass, and as for proving you wrong, Well it can't be done because Dems are never wrong and republicans are never right in you narrow minded view. It's this kind of childish thinking that will be the ruin of this country.
Supertzar	Date: April 29, 2010 @ 8:11 PM Today Congress passed a piece of legislation, HR 2499. The bill, will require Puerto Rico to hold an election on a referendum asking it’s citizens, “Do you want to maintain the status quo?” Notice that it does not mention statehood? Yes, Congressional Democrats and the Obama Administration are trying to pull another fast one. In the past 40 years, Puerto Rico has voted three times on the question of becoming a state. Each time they voted it down. In 1998, voters were given four choices, A) statehood, B) sovereignty, C) modified commonwealth or D) None of the above. Option D got the majority. In 1967 and 1993, only options A, B and C were on the ballots. The options of independence or a modified commonwealth usually get only about 3% of the vote in 1998. Statehood got 46.6% and 46.7% in 1993 and 1998, only 39% in 1967. The current drive is being pushed by the Democrats to placate to the Latino voters. Much like the new law in Arizona, which only requires police to contact Immigration officials for those subjects who have neither a valid U.S. ID or visa during routine traffic stops and arrests, Democrats are attempting to muddy the waters. If Puerto Rico does vote NO on the referendum detailed in HR2499, the next step would be to elect six representatives and two senators. A further vote for statehood may not necessarily be needed, thanks to the “Tennessee Plan”. Tennessee, and later Alaska, entered the union by electing members for the House and Senate without applying to Congress for statehood. The elected officials just went to Washington, D.C. and demanded to be seated, and they were! In June of 2009, the United Nations Committee on Decolonization drafted a resolution calling for the United States to enact a process to change the current status of Puerto Rico. The Natural Resources Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives voted 30-8 in July, 2009 and passed HR 2499 – The Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2009. If the citizens of Puerto Rico like their tax-free status and vote Yes on the referendum, HR2499 requires subsequent votes every eight years. I guess the Democrats want mandatory votes until they get it right! Is there a connection between this move by Democrats to pass HR 2499 now and set the stage of Puerto Rico to become a state and the recent anti-illegal alien law passed in Arizona? A similar bill, called HR 900 The Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2007, failed to pass in the Congress. That bill called for a referendum with the options of statehood, independence or an associated republic. Obviously, the Hispanic vote is a hot potato right now and with the Arizona law causing so much fervor, Democrats have pushed the bill front and center to take advantage of the situation. And of course the Dems are right again to do this. Right....?
ShadowMom	Date: April 30, 2010 @ 12:32 AM The bill... the real bill... I don't see any mention of the "status quo" -- but a quick google of the first line in the previous post turns up a lot of copy & pasting going on tonight. Puerto Ricans are US citizens, they pay taxes, they pay social security, they're subject to our laws... but they can't vote IF they remain in Puerto Rico. If they take up residence in any of the 50 states, they CAN vote. The continued disenfranchisement is what this bill is intended to remedy, yes; but the process began last year at the prodding of the United Nations. DAMN those Dems are GOOD if they timed it! They just went up in my misestimation.... Btw, it passed. Here's a http://images.dmusic.com/v7/emoticons/angryyell.gif align=middle alt=:@ (Angry Yell) title=:@ (Angry Yell) />@@D&summ2=m&">synopsis, for those who don't like PDF files, and I'm one of them: SUMMARY AS OF: 10/8/2009--Reported to House amended. (There is 1 other summary) Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2009 - Authorizes the government of Puerto Rico: (1) to conduct a plebiscite giving voters the option to vote to continue Puerto Rico's present political status or to have a different political status; (2) if a majority of ballots favor continuing the present status, to conduct additional such plebiscites every eight years; and (3) if a majority of ballots favor having a different status, to conduct a plebiscite on the options of becoming fully independent from the United States, forming with the United States a political association between sovereign nations that will not be subject to the Territorial Clause of the Constitution, or being admitted as a state of the Union. Prescribes the eligibility requirements for voting in the plebiscite. Requires the Puerto Rico State Elections Commission to: (1) certify plebiscite results to the President and Congress; and (2) ensure that all ballots used for the plebiscite include the full content of the ballot printed in English. Requires the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to pay all costs associated with such plebiscite (including the costs of printing, distribution, transportation, collection, and counting of all ballots).
ShadowMom	Date: April 30, 2010 @ 12:36 AM Our BBCode killed the link, but it's from THOMAS, the Library of Congress, just google H.R. 2499.
farfor44	Date: April 30, 2010 @ 12:40 AM I don't think I'll stick Aristotle up my ass,but I do have his teachings in my mind,and it's changed my life. Being Human doesn't excuse making the same mistakes over and over again and never learning from those mistakes.Humanity would still be living in caves had we not learned from our mistakes. I've never claimed to be perfect,of course I make mistakes,but I always try to never make the same mistake twice! I actually support Puerto Rican Independence,but I'm not sure how this bill will change things~supposedly non binding~ so that means nothing changes.. on to the Senate next,to waste more time I guess! NON BINDING??? Today, Puerto Ricans serve in the military but can't vote in presidential elections. This is no different from when Hawaii became a state in 1952,but it seams Republicans are opposed to this because it would put them at a disadvantage somehow I'm not sure how I don't know enough about this bill yet, who authored it? Is my first question, but that don't seem to be important to those writing about it so rather than go on a wild goose chase I'll just let this one play out! I do know there are different opinions from Democrats on this bill.. Some of those differences were evident among lawmakers of Puerto Rican background. Puerto Rico-born Rep. Nydia Velazquez, D-N.Y., and Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., whose parents were from Puerto Rico, strongly opposed the measure, saying it was designed to push a statehood agenda. "This is the Puerto Rico 51st state bill," said Gutierrez, an independence proponent. "The deck is stacked." But another Puerto Rico-born lawmaker, Democrat Jose Serrano of New York, backed it. "I support it because for the first time in 112 years the people of Puerto Rico will have an opportunity to express themselves," Serrano said
zedsalt	Date: April 30, 2010 @ 10:53 AM The NeoConmen express shrill opposition every time there's a call for direct democracy, for giving an opportunity to citizens to vote on specific issues rather than on politicians. S'Mom mentioned the amount of choice Oregonians have in regards to one issue the government has no business sticking its nose into. I lived there for a while, and it blew my mind how much direct, single-issue voting the public gets to do there. It made me envious to see the one-hundred-and-sixty-some initiatives they had a voice in during that election...THEIR voice, not some lesser-of-two-evils proxy. The practice has created a new kind of political ladder-climbing there. Big booklets are distributed every election year which contain the initiatives verbatim and two opposing viewpoints. Oregonians have the opportunity to build political careers based on their understanding of issues and their ability to explain them to their fellow citizens, rather than the schmoozing between a handful of families of wealth and power which determines the ballots here in Happy Hoosierland. Imagine that- a meritocracy, right here in the good ol' U.S. of A.
evansorchid	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 8:41 AM Supertzar......after reading your last few posts on this thread, I believe that what you are lacking is a basic understanding of how a democracy is conducted. It is inherently difficult to get large numbers of people of agree on anything....so this system of a representative government was established to handle the needs of the general society. If the Republicans are the folks in power then everything must be hunky-dory, but if the Dems get the reigns of power then let the criticism fly and hope that something sticks. If you don't like what the Democrats are doing, that's certainly your prerogative and should state your opinion, but it seems that when every statement you make characterizes every action taken by the Democrats as some subversive nefarious plot to seize power for the rest of eternity....then you seem to lack the understanding of the brilliance of the system established in the Constitution to protect against such an outcome. If the public doesn't like what the administration is doing....then they can vote them out of power....plain and simple. So, I guess that your opposition to statehood for Puerto Rico rests on the fact that it'll give the Democrats a guaranteed 4 more electoral votes in future presidential races?.....would that be a fair statement?.....or is your opposition strictly xenophobic?
Supertzar	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 11:42 AM No Evan you are not correct. I criticized the Bush administration on many issues as well. I’m not locked into one party always being right because it’s just not humanly possible. I do not blindly follow Republicans just because they are Republicans nor do I think Democrats are incapable of making good policy. Do you think the Dems would support Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state if they favored Republicans? I don’t think so. It’s not about Puerto Rico having an opportunity to express themselves it’s about political power and keeping it. That is what is so sickening about both parties. So when you find yourself disagreeing with a Republican idea make sure it’s the idea you disagree with and not just because it was from a Republican. I do that for Dem proposals simply because rejecting them outright just for being Democrat ideas would be a narrow mindedly stupid thing to do. I hope you are not like those who think if you have an R after your name you are just a hopeless idiot incapable of any intelligent thought. It’s that type of misguided thinking that divides us.
ShadowMom	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 12:31 PM So the 39 Republicans who voted for it are... ?? And 40 Dems voted no. Roll Call Vote -- and as I said before, it was actually introduced in May 2009 and had 181 cosponsors. Sounds almost bipartisan! I'm not so naive as to think the Dems aren't taking advantage of the idiocy in Arizona; but the fact is, Puerto Ricans ARE Americans, just Americans who can't vote. Not all Republican ideas are bad, Supertzar, there just appears to be a shortage of any ideas lately. Just a lot of NO NO NO! A side note, I see a couple of new conspiracy theories concerning the oil spill brewing. On the right, I'd say. Wait for it... .... it might be best to take things in order, STOP the damn thing first, THEN find out what really happened before a lot of finger-pointing goes on. The result will be the same, devastated wetlands and more. Give up your gumbo for a while unless you add crude to your diet as a rule. For the record, I never supported drilling offshore for this exact reason. One talking head actually said should we stop because of one accident? YEAHHHHH!!!! Hopefully better late than never. The Gulf of Mexico is environmentally sensitive, and maybe people who don't live around it don't care. That's a payment due I don't want to pass on. Oil is poison. Tree-hugger signing off...
Supertzar	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 1:56 PM H R 2499 TITLE: Puerto Rico Democracy Act Democratic 184 Yeas 40 Nays Republican 39 Yeas 129 Nays. This just might show that a few might vote not based on re-election strategy? Naw You can bet the contrary voters think there is some benefit in casting that way. And I mean both sides. The vote shows the overwhelming majority of yeas are DEMS. If you think it’s because the Dems are concerned about the Puerto Rican people you are naïve. Kathy I don’t think you are naïve I think you know exactly what games are being played on both sides but choose to close your eyes when you see the Dems doing it. The facts are both sides will do almost anything for political power and can’t really be trusted to vote the will of the people. We have seen the will of the people ignored by our government and it’s up to the people to correct that. I believe the people will do just that. I suspect you would like drilling stopped everywhere. Am I right? If we had a real alternative I would agree, but we don't and there won’t be one anytime soon. Are you willing to stop heating and cooling your home? How about riding a bicycle everywhere you go. Not to mention eliminating things like food and most of the products we use every day. The fact is we need oil sad but true. Without oil we would not be able to feed us or other people on this planet. In the future things will change but right now the world needs oil to survive. You are for survival aren't you?
ShadowMom	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 1:58 PM Analysis: Crist's move ominous political trend Interesting, if obvious. I've been trying to figure out what Kendrick Meek has been doing, since the only time I ever see his name in the news is when he ... ehhhh.... I'm SURE it's been in the news! But this guy has got it right. Compromise is in the middle somewhere, and the middle is getting squished. This is not supposed to be an "us-versus-them" country. It's supposed to be a "we the people" one. And I'm wondering how we allowed ourselves as supposedly intelligent adults to buy into that mindset. "Energize the BASE!" "Spin, baby, spin!" "I Want MY Country Back!" --- Politispeak... complete with forked tongue.
Supertzar	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 2:07 PM I agree we have been brainwashed and divided by the power hungry bastards in Washington. How in the hell do we get out of this mindset?
ShadowMom	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 2:14 PM I'm not blind when Dems do these things, I have an abiding distrust of ALL politicians! They all playing games with our lives, but that's because most of them have dollar signs dancing in their heads by the time they reach Washington. I consider it a badge of honor that my own Democratic senator told me I was disagreeable... because I told him I thought he was idiotic to vote the way he did on one bill. Imagine that! But the fact that Dems are playing games... like the Republicans are NOT? And the issue is not why the bill is up; the issue is, should it be up. And in my opinion, it should-- it's a choice the people of Puerto Rico should be allowed to make. Living on the ocean may make my vision a bit myopic, agreed. But up-close-and-personal, the tradeoff is not good. The ocean is is in trouble, and if the ocean goes-- so goes me and you, and yes I definitely DO believe in climate change; and no-- as I stated previously, I don't care HOW or WHO-- I only care we clean up our act. As one who gets electricity from a nuclear power plant... there are alternatives. If the money is funded. If not, we're in a rather vicious cycle, aren't we?
ShadowMom	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 2:30 PM On 1st May 2012, Supertzar said: I agree we have been brainwashed and divided by the power hungry bastards in Washington. How in the hell do we get out of this mindset? Read and be informed... and don't trust any one source. At some point, you have to say, yeah... okay. It's probably true. But before you say you support/don't support something, especially a bill-- you should read it independently. Reading only blogs that support your preconceptions is not a very good idea. Write/email you congressperson, tell them you what you like and DON'T like, and be specific... and being disagreeable works on occasion, too. Don't think they don't pay attention. And don't copy & paste stuff they've already seen 500 times. Avoid slinging arrows at the messenger, and aim at the bullseye-- the message. Common sense will usually win. And the rest is usually "koolaid" -- to borrow from Gene's vernacular -- for the masses who never get past a headline. Campaign reform. Now. To keep corporations completely out of the mix. Their money is tainted. I like what the UK does. Campaign one month, debate live with no preparation, and vote. I also like the Oregon law that Zed mentioned. Instead of relying on polls, let's hear what the people-- ALL the people really want. Cut the lameass Congress a little less slack. Any more suggestions? Let's hear 'em!
farfor44	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 4:33 PM I have a lot of suggestions for Republicans,but I'm not feeling quite as forgiving as you Mom! Great questions Spike,but I predict the Tzar will have no intelligible answer to your question! OK His answer was intelligible he's not Xenophobic,and yes his opposition stems from fear of Democratic gains at the polls.. I have a few questions of my own to ask the party of deregulation and any Republican operative as well~Where the hell are you "Drill baby Drill"Right wing lunatics now with the biggest oil spill in this Nation's history??? Would it have been wise for Bush to insist that Halliburton place a remote controlled shut off valve on the well head before they leased the rig to BP?? or would that have been too much Government involvement and REGULATION?? Are Republicans happy that 11 people died,and the entire southern coast of the US is OIL SLICKED due to deregulation?? Are Republicans still proud of their Non Union stance in light of the recent Non Union Coal mine explosion in West Virginia killing 29?? Would a simple Methane detector like the Union mines use have saved 29 lives?? Do Republicans believe that accountable,responsible people using the tool of REGULATIONS can bring ORDER out of CHAOS?? Please!Please! Republicans don't trip over each other trying to answer my questions..
Distilled1	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 10:42 PM they say good fences make good neighbors for you my friend this might be true but you still gotta put the boards on the windows to the soul inside of you that t.v. in the corner that's their greatest tool they poison you mind when you're a child with their fear and their guilt and their rules they teach you that you're just a number as they program you in school so by the time you're out in their world on your own you've been trained not to bite the hand of the cruel wake up! Don't believe that the system is failing Don't believe that the planet is dead They'll keep all the food for their fat fucking bellies and the starving will kill or be fed and they'll try to turn me against you so divided,we'll turn to them because anything strong cannot be conquered from without before first being conquered from within. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Life is a movie,we are all actors Don't let them edit you out. Life is a movie,we are all actors Don't let them edit you out. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down. Don't let them get you down.
Distilled1	Date: May 1, 2010 @ 10:44 PM Black Ribbons - Shooter Jennings/Heriphant a must listen if you ask me
Supertzar	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 8:40 AM Farfor why don't you just scream Bush did it Bush Did it! Bush caused Katrina and now the Republicans (Really Bush) caused the oil spill and the mine explosion. Blaming the R people for everything bad that happens is getting quite old. Obama does this every day even though he and the Dems have had total power over all three branches of government for quite some time now. They have had the power to do whatever they wanted regarding oil and coal regulation. They could have changed or added any regulations they wanted. The Republicans lack the numbers to oppose anything the Dems want to do, so the republicans are really powerless. Farfor are your Dems not living up to your standards? Well If not just blame Bush that's what Obama does. You know at some point the Dems will have to take responsibility for their actions or inactions.
Supertzar	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 8:53 AM
zedsalt	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 10:50 AM Wouldn't it be nice if Obama's Whitehouse and the once-supermajority the Democrats in Congress actually had acted as though they had any sort of real power? Can you imagine how much better off we would all be right now, had they not conducted themselves as though they were a timid minority who had no real claim to a mandate? Or if the Blue Dog "Democrats" had voted the way the people who voted them into office expected them to vote? Bush's first days in office completely and utterly lacked any sign that they even recognized the fact that they had opposition. Nine months later, they began acting as though they weren't presiding over a democracy anymore; we were at war, and war calls for a moratorium on liberty. I realize that it's not in the nature of decent, sympathetic human beings to conduct themselves in that manner, but can you imagine how different the world would be if there were American politicians who genuinely wished to do good and were...well, I was going to say "as assertive as those who are more concerned with other things", but as per my usual, I'm using more words than are necessary. I should leave it at "if they were assertive". Period.
farfor44	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 1:48 PM So by your response Tzar,I'm assuming you don't realize the physics of cause and effect. The Oil spill in the Gulf is the effect of years of Republican deregulation..The greedy Wall Street gambling is the effect of Republican deregulation.The Housing crisis was the effect of Republican Bank deregulation. During the Republicans short stay in the Majority they did more damage to our economy than was done under the Hoover administration.. If Republicans really want to help the people of the Gulf coast region,they will demand that BP and Halliburton cover all of the cost of the clean up,and not a dime of taxpayer money will be used! Freeze their assets if that's what it takes! I may be wrong,but I can't see the Greedy Oil Party supporting that. When the OIL reaches the shore about Wednesday,is when the anger of the people will explode!DEREGULATION=CAUSE DISASTER=EFFECT.. [TZAR Quote] "the Dems have had total power over all three branches of government for quite some time now. They have had the power to do whatever they wanted regarding oil and coal regulation." That's true only if you exclude the almost 200 Republican FILIBUSTERS of bills some dealing with this exact subject! Republicans should realize that FORCE is not the only way to achieve CHANGE,change can be achieved peacefully and diplomatically by using the mind instead of a GUN or BOMBS! That's what we DEMS mean when we say~YES WE CAN!So don't tell us~HELL NO YOU CAN'T! Time to reflect and be thankful that me, and my family don't live on the Gulf coast.. I agree Zed Democrats need to be more ASSERTIVE!
Distilled1	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 3:04 PM looks like it is on shore now what a damn mess! and 3 months to drill a relief well.. cant they just scuba down and jb weld it or use some of that as seen on tv putty
GTOriginal	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 6:04 PM I am going to pound the everloving shit out of the next Republican I see.
Supertzar	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 6:11 PM On 2nd May 2012, GTOriginal said: I am going to pound the everloving shit out of the next Republican I see. Ah yes peace loving Dems....yea right
Supertzar	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 6:14 PM Be carefull you might get YOUR ass beat.. ha ha You might get hit with a bible or possibly shot. You know how them crazy Republicans are. Sad...
Supertzar	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 7:13 PM Don’t forget Obama and the Dems authorized more offshore drilling just before this spill. So while you’re pounding republicans keep that in mind.
ShadowMom	Date: May 2, 2010 @ 11:48 PM BP is probably the villain here, but they should have actually been regulated, don't you think? And I'll wait for the investigation to pick out curtains for the cell for anyone. On a lighter note, I cannot resist. The best reason yet to leave the Republican party... Why Do Republicans Hate Boobies?
zedsalt	Date: May 3, 2010 @ 10:46 AM On 2nd May 2012, Supertzar said: Be carefull you might get YOUR ass beat.. ha ha You might get hit with a bible or possibly shot. You know how them crazy Republicans are. Sad... Using a bible to pummel someone- what an apt metaphor. If that copy of the Good Book was purchased with money gained through an earlier mugging, and that particular pitifully crazy Republican chose to time the attack so that it interrupted the most personal moment a "private" citizen could have- that would make it a perfectly apt metaphor. Ooh, that, and have the scared old White wealthy heartless bastard screech that any good Samaritan (Bible reference intended) who stops to help is actually doing the attacking.
Supertzar	Date: May 3, 2010 @ 11:12 AM Hey Zed you've got a sense of humor sort of Great! But..What no comment on this. On 2nd May 2012, Supertzar said: Don’t forget Obama and the Dems authorized more offshore drilling just before this spill. So while you’re pounding republicans keep that in mind.

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